Speeding Fine by School Zone Camera in Covid Hotspot Area

destination on 20/09/2021 - 16:44
Last edited 20/09/2021 - 17:12 by 1 other user

I recently received a fine $369 for speeding 55k in school zone.

I been working from home and its been 2 months I haven't left outside of My LGA (above 5k). But on the day I got fine I have to go to see my Specialist and didn't realize that school zone is still active and also roads are so empty. The road is actually 70k and still I am driving below speed limit. Actually later I found that the School Zone Sign which flashes at School time was covered by tree and that's the reason I couldn't see it. I think nobody in Sydney have ever seen empty roads on weekdays when school zone is active.

Image

I know its a school zone and I need to drive carefully but I think it happened because 1. Roads were empty 2. School Zone Sign is covered by tree

Just asking if anyone have received a fine in School zone is recent days and have successfully got out of it? Do I have any chance?

It's Woodville Road in Sydney.

Automotive

Comments

  • Brian McGee on 21/09/2021 - 07:29
    +2

    I think you have nothing to lose by presenting your case. The flashing lights are there to actively warn you of the time the school zone is in use, all other signs are there to alert you a school zone exists. If you are out of practice going out at these times the flashing lights would alert you but they are blocked by that ridiculous tree (thanks dodgy developer).
    If you lose its a lesson to you.

    • cute as duck on 23/09/2021 - 07:10

      It appears on your police record though if taking it to court, even if you win.

      • Brian McGee on 23/09/2021 - 07:36

        I didn't say take it to court, but if you send in for review with a photo of the sign obscured to the point of the warning light and speed limit can't be seen then that is a start. If the review goes nowhere then pay the fine, not worth a court visit.

  • CBrads4 on 21/09/2021 - 08:19
    +1

    I don't think you'll have any luck in contesting the fine.

    I would, however, write to the council and the local roads authority asking them to deal with the tree. As much as I am sure there are other warnings along the same road, it is a problem with a tree of that size covering the sign.

    Probably won't help you in this situation, but it might save someone else from receiving a fine.

    • tailgatinholden on 22/09/2021 - 12:24

      I agree.. pay the fine.. as I doubt this is an excuse to get out of it.

      But write an email to school, and CC the local councillor, etc with the image attached… it is a safety issue, and will help out the community in the long term.

  • chrisharry53 on 21/09/2021 - 08:23

    Write a letter if you like to delay payment but you have no chance even if a clear driving record for many many years. My wife came out from a side street with many distractions and no flashing lights on a day when all teachers and students were off. No mercy shown.

  • mincemeat on 21/09/2021 - 08:35
    +1

    I was fined in a school zone doing 45 and there was zero chance of appeal. I was told that there are no circumstances to get off it in a school zone.
    If you say something about the tree, and with photos, you'll get a reply that there are multiple warnings and markings , such as on the road itself. And thats even if you are lucky enough to get a reply. Usually you just cause more problems with admin costs loaded on top, and then of course eventual licence cancelled.

  • Drumadd on 21/09/2021 - 09:09
    -1

    The school has been there years and you know it. There are no excuses, there are pre warnings to the zone. Kids need to be kept safe. Guilty as charged. Pay up. End of …….

  • cashless on 21/09/2021 - 09:18

    Thank you for bringing your tale of woe to OzBargain and lighting up everyone's day.
    Hope you enjoyed the replies which you knew you were going to get before you posted.
    Now pay the fine and don't forget to post here again next time you commit a driving offence.

  • ti m on 21/09/2021 - 09:40
    +5

    If you didn't see the sign, why were you going 55? why not 70?

    • Orico on 21/09/2021 - 10:24

      Roads were empty and the guy doesn't want to jet past a school?

  • blitz on 21/09/2021 - 10:12

    I know its a school zone and I need to drive carefully
    I know its a school zone and I need to drive carefully
    I know its a school zone and I need to drive carefully
    I know its a school zone and I need to drive carefully

  • Hangryuman on 21/09/2021 - 10:18

    I know I did wrong, but can't you let me off officer - (blink, blink, flirt, flirt) - you know I'm 'special' …

    used to work for my mom with speeding fines when I was a little kid -

    but in the age of computer-generated CCTV camera regulatory fines that move the onus of proof from the accuser to the offender

    I'd say you're scrooood

  • Orico on 21/09/2021 - 10:23
    -1

    No chance, muppet. If you actually talked to a school, you would realise that most schools are open for essential workers. Some kids are allowed to go to school due to the HSC and trial and practice exams too.
    Even if the schools are not open, some teachers or cleaners might be working.

    Do the right thing and stay below 40 and get waze ffs.

    1. Roads were empty 2. School Zone Sign is covered by tree

    Shouldn't need a flashing sign to tell you to slow down to 40 while passing a giant walled off school.

  • lint on 21/09/2021 - 10:37

    You probably won't get your fine revoked but you could use this opportunity to bring the obscured sign to their attention. Maybe they'll take action and move the sign a bit.

  • joelmuzz on 21/09/2021 - 10:40

    Schools are still open for essential workers children (basically daycare for medical workers kids is the main intention).
    So the 40 zones do apply and they have run advertising all lockdown to remind people of that.

  • cameldownunder on 21/09/2021 - 11:16

    My wife was in a similar situation, and she did not contest it in court. She wrote an email but the fine was not rescinded. Not even with her no-fine history for at least 10 years.

    • ensanguined on 21/09/2021 - 12:07

      Automated rejection every time. They make us think they are considering it, but they aren't.

  • payless69 on 21/09/2021 - 11:42

    Get a job as an arborist!

  • trapper on 21/09/2021 - 12:22

    You could plead your case that you thought all the schools were closed.

    You might get lucky, but not that likely imho.

    • payless69 on 21/09/2021 - 14:19

      mind power is a bit slow in closing schools, better kill a million bats and mix all viruses

  • OzHunterNSW on 21/09/2021 - 13:03

    So you now get on social media telling everyone you were speeding in a "school zone".

    If you don't think your actions were wrong, I think your should hand in your licence

  • belongsinforums on 21/09/2021 - 14:44
    +4

    i get so much schadenfreude from speeding fine posts. keep it up

  • mrvaluepack on 21/09/2021 - 15:41
    +3

    You'll have a better chance in court pleading for leniency vs trying to get out of it from the council/police.

    • bbinc on 21/09/2021 - 18:10

      Risking a criminal record

      • jv on 22/09/2021 - 00:35

        Risking a criminal record

        Nope, they received a ticket, so it will not be treated as a criminal offense.

        • bbinc on 22/09/2021 - 07:40

          If you pay the ticket. I was advised by a lawyer once it goes to court that changes. But hey, I’m not a lawyer, just an OzB learner

          • jv on 22/09/2021 - 10:00

            @bbinc:

            I was advised by a lawyer once it goes to court that changes.

            I believe it is treated differently in NSW.

    • jv on 22/09/2021 - 00:36
      +1

      You'll have a better chance in court pleading for leniency

      I'd be pleading 'not guilty' if the sign was not clearly visible.

  • Kranbone on 21/09/2021 - 16:11
    +3

    I had a parking fine over turned because a tree had obscured the sign (11 years ago).

    I am unsure if a school zone offence is treated the same.

    • jv on 22/09/2021 - 00:32
      +1

      I am unsure if a school zone offence is treated the same.

      Why not?

      If there is no visible sign, how would you know there is a speed limit ?

    • factor on 22/09/2021 - 13:52
      +1

      Parking fines and traffic fines are treated the same way once they reach court.

      However, prior to that, during administrative leniency appeals - anything school zone is going to get rejected almost automatically. For the administrative appeals there is a defined list of things they will consider.

      Of course, in going to court - the outcome for many is getting an education in how the legal system works. There is nothing "the castle" about it, the law gets considered to the letter for guilty/not-guilty. Reasonableness is only considered for Section-10 dismissal (guilty, but no fine).

  • Kamsi on 21/09/2021 - 17:07
    +1

    Get yourself a good lawyer and you may have a chance :)

    Hey if Paul Keating can do it, so can you :)

  • ribze1 on 21/09/2021 - 22:02

    Ok i'll let you off this time, but i'm fining you for driving 55 in a 70 zone on a clear sunny day, that is just as unacceptable.

  • May4th on 21/09/2021 - 23:18

    I'd just pay up.

    I got done doing 46 in school zone in early august in hotspot LGA. Turned onto a school zone with sign behind me. There was probably 10 kids in the whole school but a school zone is school zone, chance of getting off is slim to none

    • jv on 22/09/2021 - 00:31

      but a school zone is school zone

      Not if the sign isn't visible.

  • jv on 22/09/2021 - 00:30
    +1

    Image(imgur.com)

    If that is the only sign, you might have a chance of challenging the fine.

    You'll need to go to court though.

  • lunartemis on 22/09/2021 - 06:38
    +1

    At least you would have saved up close to $300 from not driving much in the last 2 months

  • Saver Scott on 22/09/2021 - 07:23
    -1

    Some poor kid runs out and gets hit by op in his car and he pleads to judge, “But lockdown and empty roads.”

  • GoIdDigger on 22/09/2021 - 09:08
    +2

    I'd say it's worth a shot, OP. The photo should help, but these things can sometimes come down to the judge's mood on the day.

    • kerfuffle on 22/09/2021 - 09:09
      -1

      Except the judge will say that the sign on the other side of the road wasn't obscured by a tree.

  • sashatheman on 22/09/2021 - 09:20
    +2

    Your best bet in my opinion is to fight the fine by showing that the sign is not visible.

    • kerfuffle on 22/09/2021 - 13:29
      -2

      But it's visible on the other side of the road, and there's markings on the road indicating it's a school zone.

      • factor on 22/09/2021 - 13:54
        -1

        Have you read the OP? The question was whether the zone is active or not. The sign on the other side of the road doesn't have the flashing lights showing the zone is active. A reasonable but mistaken belief is that the zone not be active because "everything is shut".

        • snirodha on 22/09/2021 - 16:16

          You don't need to have flashing lights as per the legislation. As long as there is a signage with school time is sufficient. There is a signage with school time right infront of the fixed speed camera. Whether it is sufficient distance to warn the driver is something to determine by court / RTA.

          • factor on 23/09/2021 - 17:19

            @snirodha: The sign does not have the dates the school zone is inoperative due to school holidays and similar. What use is the school time if the school is closed and zone inoperative for that reason?

      • sashatheman on 23/09/2021 - 10:29

        To clarify, I don't think its likely that the OP will get their fine revoked, but if they do want to try, in my opinion the photo provided is the best chance of making it happen, even though its a very slim chance.

  • Greem85 on 22/09/2021 - 11:11
    +1

    Murphy's Law mate, no matter how unfair it feels. Shit happens at times - just get yourself your favorite meal and bottle of booze, sit down in the evening after paying the fine remotely and enjoy yourself to even out the amount of endorphins in your system. You win some, you lose some.

  • bobolo on 22/09/2021 - 13:38
    +3

    From experience, if you hire a legal representative I can almost gaurantee you will get let off due to the tree blocking the sign (good thing you took a pic as well)

    Doesn't matter that there are other signs or warnings visible. The law states that all signs must be clear and consistent across all school zones. A blocked or missing sign could be cause for confusion

    Rightly or wrongly you can most likely get out of this. Whether you can be bothered or not is a different conversation

    • snirodha on 22/09/2021 - 14:34

      I might be wrong but there are multiple warning signs. If this can be contest there will be thousands of fines that they have to wave.

      • bobolo on 23/09/2021 - 08:51

        Multiple signs yes, but legally they all need to be visible and the amount/style of signs need to be consistent with all school zones across NSW

  • kaleidoscope on 22/09/2021 - 14:31
    +1

    You cant make an argument stating roads were empty or school was closed on that particular day and time.

    But you can however make an attempt for appealing with proof that the sign was not visible due to obstructions like a tree.

    Good luck 🤞

    • G K on 22/09/2021 - 21:45

      Don't do it….just tell that you did not know that it was as school zone as the sign was hidden by the tree. If you give any indication that you knew it was a school zone, then you will lose your argument.

  • Xizor on 22/09/2021 - 14:31

    It's the government, all they care about is perception and revenue raising. The smaller the government, the bigger the power trip. Without legal representation you have little chance of getting off, beaurocratic paper pushers don't apply common sense.

  • Inshinshishimop on 22/09/2021 - 17:34
    +1

    Why be travelling at 55 if you thought it was a 70 zone? I say op knew.

    • bobolo on 22/09/2021 - 17:48

      If he knew he'd be going 40.

      Nobody "knows" and deliberately speeds.

    • cute as duck on 23/09/2021 - 07:11
      -1

      Agreed. Can't you get a fine for driving considerably slower than the speed zone?

      • bobolo on 23/09/2021 - 08:49
        -1

        Not unless he was caught by police at the time of driving slow, causing delays, and without a proper reason

        People drive below the speed limit all the time. Sometimes they even stop. Its called traffic. Or lights. Or humans crossing a road.

        • cute as duck on 23/09/2021 - 12:41

          Glad you agree that they could instead of would as I inferred.

          Thanks for adding to my point that this would be under certain circumstances.

          Not sure using that excuse would support their argument especially since in OP's own admission the roads were empty, no hazards and no reason to be 15kms under what they thought at the time was the speed limit. Pretty silly to make that admission in a letter or mention in court.

  • G K on 22/09/2021 - 21:31
    +2

    I had similar experience at the start of lockdown in Mar 2020. I was driving from Canberra and took a new route once inside Sydney. There was no flashing sign in that 200m stretch of school zone road in an otherwise 70km road at 4:00pm. I went to court putting all those reasons (i.e. no flashing sign, no kids in school or road) and I was doing 55 too.

    In the court the moment the judge heard "school zone" she did not take a second more to uphold the fine. I was only there for cancel my demerits. But she said the court does not even take care of demerits.

    The photo gives you a good chance if you appeal in Court. The fact that the sign was not visible clearly could be your best defence. Your line of defence could be that you were not even aware that it was a school zone. Only after you got the fine, you went and checked again and found that the sign was hidden by a tree. All other excuses will be overruled by a judge.

    All the best.

  • kfcfatfat on 22/09/2021 - 22:45

    If the school is open the School Zone is active.

    https://www.shine.com.au/blog/motor-vehicle-law/school-zones….

  • ss207k on 22/09/2021 - 23:22

    I got $380 plus 3 demerits for a U turn on a double line a while ago, took ages for demerits to go. Was my fault, I didn’t pay attention.

    I think you got off light there without demerits and only $369 for speeding in a school zone. Demerits also impacts your premiums.

    • kerfuffle on 23/09/2021 - 06:11

      Pretty sure OP did get demerits, they just didn't mention it. I looked it up and it's 4 demerit points for that offence. Haven't heard of speeding tickets that didn't come with demerits, but there's always a first time for everything.

  • LoserScott on 23/09/2021 - 04:01

    Speed cameras should have a 3-5 second rule, if speed isn't reduced within the first camera the second shoots reinforcing the fine or if your holding a phone, otherwise if speeds isnt adjusted in a school zone with in 3 seconds fine, if not in a school zone 5 seconds.

    Rather just shoot fines all day.

  • nikey2k27 on 23/09/2021 - 06:06

    Go to Court you have a case ie covid most schools are shut or only just running and do you have school ages kids?

    • cute as duck on 23/09/2021 - 07:13

      Even if OP wins in court, it will appear on OP's police record and have to pay court fees. Did for me in a "do not turn left street". Court fees were $50 (Victoria).

      So depends whether it is worth their time and money contesting even if they win. Demerit points doesn't seem to be important as they said they have a good driving history.

      On reflection I would have just paid the fine even though I won.

      • factor on 23/09/2021 - 17:16
        +1

        Court fees are only paid if you lose = guilty. If you lose, but then get a Section-10 dismissal (or whatever section it is in your state), you are still up for fees unless the magistrate lets you off those.

  • bobolo on 23/09/2021 - 08:43
    +1

    For those who think he can be fined for going 55 in a 70 zone. Nice try.

    People slow down or even stop completely regardless of the speed limit all the time. There could have been an obstacle, people crossing the street, a bicycle, or traffic, or a health issue with the driver….the list is endless.

    Realistically you can only be fined for driving considerably slower than the speed limit if you are seen by law enforcement at the time, causing significant delay on other motorists/traffic, and without a valid reason as per above.

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