Can The Landlord Demand Additional 28 Days Notice Refusing to Accept Email copies of Initial Notice

zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 18:25
Last edited 30/09/2021 - 22:54 by 1 other user

I had posted about my shady landlord previously and the issue is ongoing, unfortunately. It turns out the electricity bill screenshots I was suspicious of was edited bill from last year, the electricity company said the apartment hasnt even been with them since last year. So our amazing landlord changed the dates on the bill and sent screenshots of his edited screen making them look as if they're current.
And you guys were right there was indeed a shared meter between the apartments meaning either way we weren't liable for these bills.
In response to that though the landlord basically locked us out of the apartment in the last 2 weeks (He claims its an issue with the door as its electrical and not his fault and that he'll get around to fixing it when hes free - hes like 65+ yr old child - he literally sent us a text saying hes too busy enjoying the lack of lockdown and the weather where he is (we are in Melbourne with the lockdown vs the apartment and him are in regional vic) so he couldn't get around to getting the door fixed!)

we've gone through consumer affairs and theyve given him another week to fix it. However hes now demanding that we need to give him new set of 28 days notice in writing. The initial 28 days notice was through text which he responded and acknowledged, we also sent him an email with details of everything as well. He had not said anything about wanting paper notice in the last 3 weeks but magically now that we have 1 week left of our notice hes demanding 28 days notice to be in paper and claims he never agreed to receive the notice through email.
the problem is he never provided us with his address for it to be mailed the way hes requesting. and this is just another shady act from him to try and scam more money out of us (since his efforts with the bills failed).

Consumer affairs/Vcat -havent really been that helpful in this regard so wondering if anyone knows whether he can demand additional notice when he accepted the initial notice through the only method of communication weve had with him?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Pelicannn on 30/09/2021 - 18:46
    +3

    landlord basically locked us out of the apartment in the last 2 weeks

    Umm…What?

    What did the REA do? Where did you live in the two weeks? I’d be taking his ass to court if that were the case.

    • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 18:52

      Its a private landlord so unfortunately we've had to deal with Consumer affairs trying to get him to fix the door. We're staying in Melbourne even before this but we havent been able to get our things because of this. We tried to report him ( I mean fraudulent documents alone you'd think would be enough to get him in trouble but it appears not to be) VCAT practically said there wasn't much they could do outside of finding a middle ground between the two of us and to wait till his week is up to get the door fixed.

      • Pelicannn on 30/09/2021 - 19:02
        +5

        Acknowledging the difficulty of the situation and covid hampering this but I’d be out of there (profanity) asap.

        Terminate the agreement, then ask for access immediately to remove your belongings and find somewhere else to live.

        Yes it might cost you but sometimes you need to cut your losses and move on. Sometimes throwing away money for your own well-being is a wise investment.

        • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 19:19
          +1

          well our 28 days notice is ending next week so it is terminated. Our current issue is he's demanding additional 28 days and we cant get in to remove our belongings - we weren't staying there regardless due to lockdown but had our stuff there

  • dizzle on 30/09/2021 - 18:48
    +3

    I could be mistaken, or it could even be different between states.

    However I beleive it is supposed to be in your contract whether they accept email as a recognised form. Ie if it includes it in there it's accepted. If it's not in the contract then both parties have to agree to accept it. If that's the only method of communication you have had with him (ie you don't have his address and he hasn't been there in person to accept), even if he takes you to the tribunal I think they'd side with you.

    I also beleive that being locked out of the house (for any reason) would be a major breach in the contract. The same as if you were without water for two weeks. It's a little late, but I would have taken that as a time to hand in a breach notice. He would have had to pay someone to fix it if he couldn't get there. You may even have a case for money back to pay for hotel rooms while he was in breach (not sure on that though).

    All in all, I don't think he will take you to the tribunal, and if he tries to keep the bond (assuming it's lodged) he would have to argue to get it back.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 30/09/2021 - 18:51
    -3

    I think there is no contract and no bond has been paid to the Fair trading.

    So it is a civil matter

    • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 18:54

      yes he didnt lodge our bond and we didn't have a paper contract in place just 3 months verbal agreement

      • [Deactivated] on 30/09/2021 - 19:04

        in your previous post you stated you had a contract, did you mean verbal agreement when you said that?

        • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 19:14
          +1

          sorry, would have meant a verbal contract. From what we've been told its still a contract through a verbal agreement. (the paper form was never signed due to not being provided among other bs the landlord threw at us but that's another issue altogether)

          • SnoozeAndLose on 30/09/2021 - 19:27

            @zine21: it is just a hear-say situation, you better just leave and maybe keep holding the key until such day arrives.

      • Hardlyworkin on 30/09/2021 - 19:27
        +9

        He didn't lodge your bond? You might as well get ready to lodge with the tribunal/court in that case.

        If you've given him notice and he has acknowledged this then go with that. I can't see you cheering the bond back easily with way.

        Otherwise, prior to moving out, treat yourself to a kg of prawns and be sure to stash the remains in the house somewhere. Inside the curtain rods is a good one.

        • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 20:03

          we cant even get into the apartment to take our belongings let alone go in to stash prawn remains ahaha.
          Im just so surprised he can get away with the amount of crap he has and no one seems to know what to do with it (consumer affairs/VCAT heck we even contacted police and they were like… soo what do you want us to do about the fraudulent bills ?)

          • SnoozeAndLose on 30/09/2021 - 20:28

            @zine21: Issue is there is no contact, so how can anyone enforce anything?

            Lesson learn

            • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 21:51

              @SnoozeAndLose: actually written contract doesnt mean anything special from what we've learned. Verbal agreements are just as valid as written. Because initially, we thought we could just give 2 weeks notice and leave (we just wanted to get away asap) but the legal advise we got was we had to give 4 weeks notice, and the same rules applied to us regardless of whether we signed the document or not

          • dizzle on 30/09/2021 - 20:44

            @zine21: OK seems a little different to what I thought. Since it was a short term stay without a proper lease, I don't think there's too much that can be done from either side. He can't force you to stay. The only thing stopping you from leaving now is that the doors are still locked to you.

            At this stage I would hire a locksmith, to open the door. Get all your stuff out and unfortunately forfeit any bond send a text telling him where you left the key. Best not to drag it out

          • bigticket on 30/09/2021 - 21:28
            +5

            @zine21: He can't legally lock you out. He has to evict you with an eviction notice with at least a month notice with or without a lease. Since you belongings are still at the property you have every right to be there. From what I understand you are paid up for another week plus the bond.
            He can not have it both ways: not accepting your notice and locking you out. I would get back into he house, change the locks and set up camp and tell him to evict you since your notice was not valid. Emphasize that in covid times its probably going to take 6 months since you are abnormally stubborn and its going to be a drawn out affair. Possession is 9/10's the law.
            Mention you may sub-lease it as well and that he can evict the sqatters as well when you are gone.
            See how negotiable he is then.

            • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 21:38

              @bigticket: Well he hasnt said he locked us out. Our door is electrical and it uses a code and not a key to get in. The door isn't working for electrical reasons - or thats what hes claiming. Aka it requires repairs. Hes an electrician though so its pretty clear he messed with the door to keep us locked out. Hes claiming he will fix it when he gets a chance but then texts us saying hes busy enjoying the weather and no lockdown as reasons for not having time to fix it.

              I love the idea of just sitting in and not moving out and changing locks but it all seems pretty illegal and we'd probably end up as the faulty party with police wanting to interfere (even though theyre refusing to help us get in atm!)

              • stringbean402 on 01/10/2021 - 08:05
                +2

                @zine21: Call a locksmith to gain access to the apartment and remove your belongings. Otherwise use a crowbar and break the door off it's hinges and tell him to send you a bill. After that don't pay the landlord another cent.

                Police wont want a bar of the situation as it is a tenancy matter with no formal agreement in place.

              • bigticket on 01/10/2021 - 13:29

                @zine21: Oh, I see. Then take a photo of the lock and the model number and contact locksmiths that can repair or replace that type of lock, preferably with a mechanical type. You can do this as its an emergency repair and pass the bill directly to the landlord. If the lock has been tampered with, and things go south the locksmith can provide you with a statement to that effect if required in the future.
                Most electronic locks have a mechanical override system, usually with a key. I don't know if that helps you. I would be doing everything in my power to re-enter. Good luck.

        • AdosHouse on 30/09/2021 - 21:03
          +3

          I would never condone ruining anothers property, I'm just saying, letting those prawns bake in the sun for a week, then collecting the juice, and syringing it into various things, is much harder to detect.

    • deme on 30/09/2021 - 20:32
      +3

      I think there is no contract and no bond has been paid to the Fair trading.

      Stop this, some places in the world require you to stamp stuff, not in Australia.

      In Australia:

      When you checkout at Aldi, that's a contract.
      When you ask a mate for $50 and say you'll pay it back that's a contract.
      When you sign a written contract with an X, that's a signed contract.

      It is an offence not to lodge the bond in all states.

      So it is a civil matter

      Only police can evict you, changing locks on a tenant even if they haven't paid may actually be a criminal offence.

      • SnoozeAndLose on 30/09/2021 - 20:37

        If you want to pursue,just go ahead, see how much it is going to cost and the time you need on preparing everything to convince the VCAT member

        • deme on 30/09/2021 - 20:38

          This is about someone's residence, only the police with a warrant can evict someone. You go to the police when you suspect someone has committed a crime not vcat.

          • SnoozeAndLose on 30/09/2021 - 20:39

            @deme: I think now OP want to move out and get his bond back but landlord need longer notice.

            • deme on 30/09/2021 - 20:41

              @SnoozeAndLose:

              In response to that though the landlord basically locked us out of the apartment in the last 2 weeks

              we cant even get into the apartment to take our belongings let alone go in to stash prawn remains ahaha.

  • sharkyoz on 30/09/2021 - 19:38
    +6

    bikies

    • Switchblade88 on 30/09/2021 - 19:54
      +1

      Might ACTUALLY be a legitimate option for this post

    • SF3 on 30/09/2021 - 20:08

      Pam! She is tough on these cases!

  • holdenmg on 30/09/2021 - 19:43
    +6

    I'm thinking Dodgy Landlord of the Week, 7PM, ACA, Call Tracy…

  • SF3 on 30/09/2021 - 20:03
    +2

    Still not dob them to ATO?

    landlord changed the dates on the bill and sent screenshots of his edited screen making them look as if they're current.

    ^ There is your evidence!

  • elgrande on 30/09/2021 - 20:16
    +3

    Can you get a locksmith?

    There is no way he is letting you get your stuff.

  • deme on 30/09/2021 - 20:37
    +3

    https://tenantsvic.org.au/contact-us/

    If you can't get your stuff/you have been illegally locked out etc: https://www.police.vic.gov.au/police-assistance-line-and-onl…

    • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 21:19

      We tried that, they wouldn't do anything about it. They claim its a matter for consumer affairs or vcat to resolve not them. Consumer affairs have given him till next week to get it sorted so we just have to wait is what theyre saying.

  • WreckTangle on 30/09/2021 - 20:50

    You got a link to the post about the dodgy electricity bill?

  • garetz on 30/09/2021 - 21:05
    +2

    28 days notice comes into effect when they receive it via an agreed method, no matter if that is a text, email or letter is irrelevant.

    If the only method provided by the owner from what you have said was via text, then its still binding.

    I would recommend getting a removal service, call the non emergency police line and say you are illegally being locked out of your rental by the owner and you want to move out and are concerned as to what the owner might do, see what they say.

    • zine21 on 30/09/2021 - 21:32

      Thank you, this is what I wanted to confirm - whether he can claim 3 weeks after the notice which he had originally acknowledged and accepted that the initial notice is not via his accepted form of contact and demand an additional 4 weeks. I mean you'd hope if he needed paper confirmation that hed let you know in the initial instance and give an address for that to be sent, rather than waiting 3 weeks and just before your notice is up - say hey btw I need your notice in paper so give me 4 more weeks - even though you're locked out and cant even enter the apartment for which you've been paying rent for.

      Police are pretty useless they wouldn't do anything so we just have to wait for consumer affairs time to run its course.

  • justgooddeals on 30/09/2021 - 21:08
    +4

    This is the most stupid landlord in the world. He is keeping you out of your home. That is illegal. Many people who are not patient as the OP would do a lot of damage in retribution.( I am not saying to do this.)

    OP all the advice you need is above.

    But in summary hire locksmith. Get all your stuff, move out leave the key in the letterbox or place agreed to by yourself and landlord. Leave regain your sanity and be happy knowing you will never have to deal with such low life scum lord again.

    Unfortunately your bond is lost.

  • wizzy on 30/09/2021 - 21:11
    +3

    I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

    Am I correct in understanding that you don't currently have access to your stuff, or the property you're still paying rent on? As in, right now, you can't get into the place and are sleeping somewhere else?

    If that is the case, I think you should just go to the police station and tell them what your landlord has done.

    I don't know what they will do, but if they are nice and you are lucky, they will at least phone your landlord and tell him that he has to let you in.

    Good luck!

  • mrwoo on 30/09/2021 - 22:04
    +4

    "So our amazing landlord changed the dates on the bill and sent screenshots of his edited screen making them look as if they're current."
    Obtaining financial benefit by deception is a criminal offence.

  • ronafios on 01/10/2021 - 05:49
    +4

    The relevant section in the Victorian standard terms is:

    Service of notices and other documents by electronic methods
    • Electronic service of documents must be in accordance with the requirements of the Electronic Transactions (Victoria) Act 2000.
    • Just because someone responds to an email or other electronic communications, does not mean they have consented to the service of notices and other documents by electronic methods.
    • The renter and rental provider must notify the other party in writing if they no longer wish to receive notices or other documents by electronic methods.
    • The renter and the rental provider must immediately notify the other party in writing if their contact details change.

    In your case, it could be clearly argued they consented to electronic communication and acknowledged your initial request to terminate the lease,as they have not communicated with you via written mechanisms themselves. If they had always sent paper letters to you during your tenancy you may have had trouble, but it seems they always emailed and texted.If they took you to VCAT they would lose.

    In this case, I would send them a letter (or PDF to email) stating the facts and reiterating your initial termination date.

    "Thank you for your text of XX requesting a further 28 days written notice. As all communication regarding this lease has from you has been electronic, this constitutes consent to electronic communication as the agreed method of communication. You have not provided a written lease or a physical address for the service of documents. Your acknowledgement of our previous communication including your reference to our termination date, further demonstrates this. We expect our original termination date to be honoured and will have moved out of the property on that date. The property will be in the same approximate condition as when rented, and we expect the full return of our bond. Should you wish to take this further via VCAT, we would invite the opportunity to also allow them to adjudicate on the rent and utility refund due to us from the doctored electricity bills and lost utility of the front door."

  • turbochris on 01/10/2021 - 08:13

    You should take him to VCAT.

    For starters you shouldn't be liable for rent if you have no access to the property.

    Keep detailed written notes with dates.

  • dtn72 on 01/10/2021 - 08:22
    +2

    There is a lot going on here, but I’d be arranging emergency access to the apartment ASAP (before the current notice period ends) to remove your property.

    I would also not pay one more cent, you need to stick to your current 28 day period.

    Your landlord is a bully, he is liable for all costs associated with accessing your apartment and also for any temporary accomodation costs.

    You really should get onto the Tenants Union - https://tenantsvic.org.au/

    Sounds like you will need to go VCAT to get your bond and costs back.

  • Big Lenny on 01/10/2021 - 08:59
    +2

    is this a cash in hand arrangement?

    dob the shonkster to the ATO

  • Cheaplikethebird on 01/10/2021 - 09:16

    Force entry. Take your stuff. Move into one of the many properties in Melbourne available at a great discount due to Covid.

  • OzHunterNSW on 01/10/2021 - 11:50

    You gave Notice. That's how they Notice you.

    You vacate as planed. You have a "professional" cleaner clean the house.

    You lodge for your Bond to be returned.

    If your land lord contests the return of bond, you take them to Tribunal. You provide all your paperwork.

    As for the doctored utility bills - go to the POLICE

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