Hey OzBargainers!
I am starting my journey on seeing if I can legally revert my electricity smart meter back to the regular analogue one. Has anyone been successful with this?
I'm Wanting to Replace Electricity Smart Meter with a Regular Analogue One (NSW)
Bignudge on 22/10/2021 - 14:54
Last edited 22/10/2021 - 15:15 by 1 other user
Last edited 22/10/2021 - 15:15 by 1 other user
Comments
OP probably think Smart Meter cause COVID, now OP has to take the shot!
probably easy to "hack" it to pay less electricity.
Nudge Nudge….
probably easy to "hack" it to pay less electricity.
Which one is allegedly easier to "hack"?
Analog or Smart?
Yes
Doesn't like the meter being the smartest
Why?
Why not?
You probably end up going off the grid. Provider can stop giving you electricity and new connection required smart meter, you can ask them the disable the communication component, then you have to pay extra for meter reading.
Why?
Lol
Sounds like a very grand journey.
May you have fair winds and following seas.
Live long and prosper \ \ / /-
Why?
i don't think you can
You can't.
More specifically - your electricity provider/distributor will not even consider your request. You will not find a contractor who can or will do anything with meters without authorisation from the distributor. And you sure as hell can't DIY it.
And since you haven't clarified to anyone yet as to your reasons for this request, we can only assume that either:
a) you're ignorant (of the process, the situation, or something else you haven't specified)
b) you lost a good deal, or were being undermetered
c) You're trying to solve some other problem you haven't disclosed.How close is my guess?
Dear Switchblade88, I hearby award you the honour of winning the internet this date, and commend you on your efforts and diligence.
I also award you meticulous conduct, for slicing and dicing your serve of justice in such a well laid out and easy to comprehend point form.
Also… name checks out.
There's no real reason why anyone should want to take the backward step of replacing a smart meter with an old analogue meter even if it is possible - which it isn't..
Yes there is. If you have solar and you have an analogue spinning dial meter, when the panels are producing more than you can use the dial spins backwards. Effectively giving you a feed in rate equal to the flat rate from the grid (as it is reducing your meter reading). I haven't heard of anyone being allowed to keep an analogue meter after getting solar though, let alone getting one installed when there is already a smart meter there.
What you are saying is called net metering and doesn't work on analogue meters if you 'feed in' more than you use…. As the billing software thinks you have used a bucket load of power if the number is lower than the last reading ;)
What quantumcat describes happens on analogue meter. I've seen it with my own eyes (on a property where the distributor hasn't upgraded the meter and the owner has "commissioned" their system). Their bill readings didn't go back ward as such, so it remained unchanged on subsequent bills.
What quantumcat describes happens on analogue meter
I'm aware and only works if you feed in LESS than you consume.
Their bill readings didn't go back ward as such, so it remained unchanged on subsequent bills.
Then they didn't feed in more than they used.
If your analogue meter reads 388,666 this reading, and you 'spin it backwards' more than you consumed so on the next reading it reads 388,566, to the 'system' you can't use a negative amount. So it assumes you have 'clocked' the meter and 'used' 999899 kwh
Yes it happens.
@JimmyF: I got a refund on the quarter I got my solar installed where the analogue meter didn't get replaced yet and it spun backwards
@JimmyF: Quantumcat is correct.
Smart meters only pay out a fraction (50%) or less (15% in my case) for generating electricity as compared to consuming it.If you were to keep an analogue meter the meter would just run backwards, in effect the company would be paying you the same feed in tariff as it would cost to consume the energy. Energy companies have since phased this out as it doesnt present a profit margin for them.
Smart meters only pay out a fraction (50%) or less (15% in my case) for generating electricity as compared to consuming it.
That is not the 'smart' meter doing that, its still recording 100% of the power exported, that is the feed in tariff paying you less.
If you were to keep an analogue meter the meter would just run backwards, in effect the company would be paying you the same feed in tariff as it would cost to consume the energy. Energy companies have since phased this out as it doesnt present a profit margin for them.
That is called 'net metering' and most analogue billing systems are not designed to see negative usage. You are correct it was phased out as people used the 'grid' as a massive battery and there is no money in that for power companies.
That is not the 'smart' meter doing that, its still recording 100% of the power exported, that is the feed in tariff paying you less.
Not sure what you're arguing there? The OP requested if they can transfer back to analogue.
The short answer is no because feed in and consumption rates aren't the same. If you have an analogue meter they would be treated as the same.And yes analogue meters can handle negative consumption, the number just goes backwards (it's pretty simple). My dad's solar was on this for a number of years until the power company came and changed it over.
He was getting ~$120 credit per billing cycle and yes it can go below zero and reset. From memory this was paid out yearly in the form of a cheque
I bought a house with solar and an old power meter, it did exactly what you described. But the providers were onto it, and gave me "estimated" bills until we replaced it with a smart meter.
As someone who had solar for over 9 years, while this is true if things were setup as you described, actually there was a seperate meter installed and all energy going to the grid went through that. As such there was no spinning backwards available. Later they installed 2 smart meters in the same way. It was because all electricity was setup to feed into the grid because the initial contract had a high feed in tarrif. I don't know that anyone else had a single meter setup.
Upgrading to smart meter resulted in my gas bills tripling with energy Australia. There are actually horror stories of shock bills after people switched to smart meters
The meter doesn't set the price. Your energy consumption and resulting price per kWh does.
Meaning that to have a huge price change in bills (assuming people are smart enough to work out a winter bill will be higher than the spring bill they just had etc) are otherwise due to things like their existing/old meter was faulty and not reporting correctly, or they spent no time in checking whatever new v old plan they were signing up/signed up to as part of their plan renewal that occurred during the meter upgrade.I'd be asking EA to reread my meter and if necessary replace it if I was you bashar20.
My average bill didn't change when my new meter was installed, no one I know has had issues like you described.
My quarterly gas bill under old meter was around $100 with smart meter it was $250ish after discounts. It was always the same for the following 6 months until I moved out. I managed to get a $250 discount after months of disputing charges.
EA kept arguing new Smart meter can’t be wrong. This was for 2 people in a small unit.After moving to new house my bill dropped to $100-120 with Globird.
Moral of the story Energy Australia is dodgy. And smart meters are not not always better.
On whirlpool there are many people that had problems with smart meters and AGL.
How’d you get a smart meter for your gas? I want one too
Yo, do you run you entire house on gas? Smart meters are for electricity.
Energy Australia replaced my gas meter a digital smart gas meter. There has no change on tariffs. However my bills tripled with same usage as meter was reporting inflated use.
@Typical16-bitEnjoyer: What I can confirm is after this smart meter was installed my gas bills tripled.
- This was refereed to as a smart meter by EA senior escalation rep.
- I was in a unit and somehow readings on this meter showed on my gas bill and that’s where my gas bills sky rocketed when they upgraded this meter.
2 - Measures WATER. Not gas.
Its also used on hot water supplies, so possibly bashar20's is in an apartment and their gas bill gets calculated based on some hot water usage (assuming water heated by gas)
(e.g. https://neighbourhood.agl.com.au/t5/Energy-Accounts-and-Bill…)
Not sure why I am getting the negs for stating my negative experience with Energy Australia gas offering.
Luckily I changed provides and residence and my current gas quarterly gas bill ranges between $100 and $120.
Not going to happen. I'll put my life on it OP.
Seems like an unnecessary risk to take.
I'm shocked to this bet
If you DIY make sure you don't accidentally arc your tinfoil hat
I'm wondering the same for my watch.
Get one from an old house that's being demolished and diy.
What could go wrong!?!!?
Assuming op is a level 2 electrician, I guess.Op sounds like he knows what he's doing, she'll be right mate 👍
@JakeyJooJoo: Dude don’t take things literally. I’ve lived here long enough to know the idiom, this is a forum and people get wound up over things like this haha see the negative votes?do you see my intention now at least?
He could get "charged" for it.
Could be quite shocking
worst case the other house has used more electricity than the OP's existing meter and the first bill would be huge.
Who will come to read it? I guess they'll discover it when they come to check why the smart meter isn't reporting back.
Exactly, then they will just carry on reading it and won't question why it's been changed. It's foolproof.
What's black and crisp and hangs from the power box?
Pubes…?
Nekminnit, new thread: Electricity company cut off my power for 'no reason'!
i smashed the subscribe button quickly on this one. Popcorn grabbed.
No allowed.
Once you do the following you will have the equivalent of the analog meter:
1) Ask to be put on a single rate plan.
2) If you have solar ask to change to gross metering, NOT net metering. This may require a smart meter change and I have NFI who pays.But, if you have solar, I don't think any state/provider would allow you to go back to single rate tariff once you have a solar system installed.
Thank you! Things have changed. I remember after adding solar, they forced us to install a smart meter, and we moved to a TOU tariff as the single rate was a killer. So not forced to change tariff, my bad. I'm sure I remember reading an updated regulation was going to introduce this though.
But now it seems a single rate tariff would be cheaper. Need to look into this.
@resisting the urge: Grab your last 4 bills (1 year worth) and put it into a spreadsheet and compare to see if you will save by changing plans. Sometimes you do and sometimes you do not, usually due to the daily charge.
@AndyC1: Or you could use this if you live in a state where it looks at your bus and available electricity plans
https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/
my electricity smart meter back
It's not your meter. It's the energy providers..
This is the most accurate comment on here. The water, gas and electricity meters are the property of the utility companies.
Best and really the only way to get rid of smart meter get it removed and sever the connection to the grid. Go off grid big expense though.
No chance of that happening in NSW even if you do find some authorised electrician that has a new analog meter that could be installed , the electric supplier will first send you a letter offering you a free meter upgrade and when you say no they will send you a letter in less then a year that there is an "issue" and it has to be replaced. As this is what happened with me i knew a electrician that warned me that they were not getting provided any more old dumb meters (the ones that they have to come and read) and installed one he had for me.
Now the reason I did it was to try and make sure they could not switch me to "Time of day" billing as with a smart meter they poll every 15 minutes so can bill you more at "peak time" if they later on forced a switch over to that billing model but they could not do that with a dumb meter.
Also new smart meters have a remote disconnect feature now why it is not widely used i don't like the idea of it as if someone was to use it you are basically without power until they fix it.
Now the reason I did it was to try and make sure they could not switch me to "Time of day" billing
So sign up to a fixed tarrif plan instead.
Yep i am but there was talk that this may get phased out and you would be forced onto a Time of Day plan later if the meter supported it and there was not much you would be able to do.
So you paid someone to install an analogue meter so that you could go on a fixed tarrif plan, when you could have just changed to a fixed tarrif plan.
You did this because you were worried about being put into a time of day tarrif because fixed use tarrifs were being phased out.
If power companies want to phase out fixed tarrif plans they can, and it they want everyone on a time of day tariff they will give you a new meter. You don't get a choice, it's not your meter and they are a business so they can sell to you however they want to
@spaceflight: I did not say it wasn't their choice as it was also my choice to have the meter replaced legally with one that did not have remote capabilities at the time.
I did it at the time because I wanted to and was told that it should not need to be replaced for 7 years unless there was a fault unfortunately they played the faulty card a year in it was replaced again.
Yes they are a business but I can do what I like also to minimize cost if I find a way unless you are saying we should just pay whatever a business wants us to pay and not look to reduce that cost that is not the OzBargain way :)
but I can do what I like also to minimize cost if I find a way
But you did the opposite. You paid to get something you could get for free.
You could have kept your smart meter, changed to a fixed tarrif plan and paid the same as you do on analog meter.
Or you could have changed how you consume electricity and potentially paid less on a time of use tarrif.
@spaceflight: I did have it replaced as part of my electrician mate coming over to do other items so meter install was free, yes I paid $300 for the meter itself , BUT the savings during that time were higher as the solar output was not calculated at grid but subtracted from my meter direct so I came out ahead hence the electric company wanting me back on a smart meter.
Put it like this for you .. on smart meter ..Electric Bill $800 + $200 solar credits to bill = $600 vs old meter style $200 in first quarter as Electric usage showed as less as it subtracted at meter so no solar credits at a lower rate to apply hence it payed for itself in first quarter then I got 3 more quarters the same so even though I only had for a year it still payed for itself.
It saved me money any way you look at it
It saved me money any way you look at it
You fed power back into the grid, without proper metering, which would have mean you were doing so against the energy providers rules.
May as well have had your elec mate just connect one of your phases upstream of the meter and saved even more.
@SBOB: Wrong don't make accusations based on assumptions that you don't understand. Also for arguments sake lets say If it was incorrectly metered (which it wasn't) then it would have just meant that i would not have reduced my meter readings if it did not correctly detect the power flowing back to the grid hence would not have saved money. Plus if it was not done correctly the energy company would have swapped it out as soon as they would have and hit me with a fine as they knew the day it was installed as they have to approve the meter type and its Serial number on installation.
The Meter was an approved meter for 3 phase Ingress with Solar Egress just the way that it reported for meter readers that noted it was that it read as a single value as the solar subtracted off the total the first Gen Solar Meters did it this way from what i was told, this was why they stopped issuing them for installation but the remaining stock was still allowed to be used as they were perfectly fine for install but just did not make the energy companies as much money hence they shelved them.
The Meter was installed as per the energy providers guidelines as the proper paperwork and approval still had to be done for the certificate of compliance etc so all was above board and legal.
Put it like this for you .. on smart meter ..Electric Bill $800 + $200 solar credits to bill = $600
800 + 200 is 1,000
vs old meter style $200 in first quarter as Electric usage showed as less as it subtracted at meter so no solar credits at a lower rate to apply
So you are saying that you wanted an analogue meter because it nets off your consumption.
Net metering is the standard meter setup, whereby customers consume the power produced by their solar panels and simply export anything left over
https://www.canstarblue.com.au/solar-power/solar-meters-expl…The smart meter does what you want, it subtracts the solar you make from what you get from the grid.
@spaceflight: Just so you know, no new smart meter will subtract off your meter total they will give 2 values (or in my case 4 as I have three phase) to the supplier one is your Usage and one is your Solar Generation.
They do it this way as your usage is charged at their charging rate so use a simple example using actual plan costs from origin:You use 100 kWh in a quarter but you generate with 200kWh in that same quarter
(I'm going to ignore the 80.3c a day supply charge)Now on old system you would be having a credit of 100kWh on you bill meaning the Electricity would issue you a credit
as 100 x 22.92 c/kWh = $22.92
- 200 x 22.92 c/kWh = $ 45.84
Total = 22.92 CREDIT
And yes I know of people in my area who actual got credits form the companyBUT on the new system you will still get a charge of $12.92
With a separated smart metered system it is calculated like this
100 x 22.92 c/kWh = $22.92
- 200 x 5.00 c/kWh = $10
Total = $12.92 CHARGEAs you can see even if you produced double the energy you used as it is bought at a reduce rate you will not get a credit hence the old system being better and why they removed it.
As you can see even if you produced double the energy you used as it is bought at a reduce rate you will not get a credit hence the old system being better and why they removed it.
due to reductions in FIT.
Makes sense as FIT occurs during the hours where wholesale electricity is cheaper (e.g. not during peak periods) and as such doesn't cost the energy companies anywhere near the cost of the old FIT rate to supply.Paying FIT rates equivalent to retail elec supply rates is unsustainable (for profit making private electricity companies) ,and just moves the unequal cost of FIT to be spread across to all electricity users as an increased usage cost anyway.
Good for those that got solar early, but was always going to be a shrinking return as time goes on.I'm sure going to miss my 20c FIT when it ends next month and have to revert to a lower FIT.
@SBOB: Yep i was lucky with my first system and was on the 60c FIT it paid for itself in the first 4 years I wish I had put more up at the time as i paid for a bigger inverter but then they made the rule touch it at all you loose it so I left it.
@spaceflight: I was recently moved from a fixed tariff plan to time of use without consent.
Apparently i do not have the choice of fixed tariff anymore in my area.
Apparently i do not have the choice of fixed tariff anymore in my area from my specific retailer
FTFY
Nope
Why?