Evicted Tenant Won't Leave

LDreadPirateRoberts on 03/11/2021 - 21:38
Last edited 03/11/2021 - 23:18 by 1 other user

My "friend" has an investment property that they have rented out to a tenant.

The tenant owes $9k+ in unpaid rent and has been to VCAT once already (VCAT ruled that they couldn't be evicted due to the COVID moratorium). Since then, they still have not paid enough rent and now the property manager has sent them an eviction notice. The tenant is abusive and unruly toward the agent and hasn't left the property (eviction date was late week as per notice). Another VCAT hearing has been organized for whatever the next step is but it got me wondering.

If the tenant isn't going to leave (very likely), how do you get rid of them? Pretty sure cops won't do anything.

Poll Options

  • 320
    The police will nab him and throw tenant to the curb
  • 33
    Tenant lives in the property indefinitely, rent and worry free
  • 136
    Landlords suck and are leaches on society. Good on the little guy for sticking it to the system!
Home & Garden

Comments

  • Hybroid on 03/11/2021 - 21:40
    +123

    Only Victoria Police can carry out a forcible eviction and only when they have a Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) order.

    1. Give the renter the official written notice called a notice to vacate
    2. Apply to VCAT for a possession order
    3. Receive a warrant of possession
    4. Give the warrant of possession to the police, which gives police the power to evict the renter.

    https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/renting/moving-out-g…

    End.

    • DreadPirateRoberts on 03/11/2021 - 21:43
      +38

      Ah, probably should have googled a bit better before posting 😅 Thanks for the info!

    • slow on 04/11/2021 - 09:42
      +6

      Have been through this myself. Takes a while, but eventually police will show up and evict them.

    • HeWhoKnows on 04/11/2021 - 10:31
      +31

      Bad tenants have been allowed to run riot with the COVID19 rubbish
      And the govt is taking no responsibility whatsoever for allowing this to happen.

      It's happened to me as well in Sydney

      Don't forget to take him to court and demand payment for all the outstanding monies

      • Ash SA on 04/11/2021 - 11:21
        +3

        I had such vibes with my tenant and I sold my IP site unforeseen last year. now it is someone else's problem (though it is bad and we informed them about the situation beforehand).

        • OzzyOzbourne on 04/11/2021 - 12:38
          +17

          Whilst I don't like the generous tax breaks property investors receive, are you saying that no one should profit from selling life essentials? Ie, food, water, gas, electricity

            • Baghern on 05/11/2021 - 00:24
              +10

              @abb: You're just being ignorant.

              Its economically sensible for the concept of rent and not owning homes.

              The issue for most of the world but especially Australia is that we have enabled policies that has inflated housing prices.

              • abb on 05/11/2021 - 12:00
                -5

                @Baghern: You have pointed out no details regarding what I am meant to be ignorant of.

                The simple fact is that a landloard/tenant relationship is usually an exploitation of economic disparity. Sure, it makes "economic sense" for the landlords to be in favour of it.

                I agree that inflated housing prices are a problem.

                • redfox1200 on 07/11/2021 - 14:24
                  +1

                  @abb: Just like supermarkets exploit the people without food!

                • ozboygsl on 10/11/2021 - 08:09

                  @abb: yes comrade. lets pretend thats all it is.

            • haemolysis on 05/11/2021 - 11:25
              +4

              @abb: There is no “personal” control. You try to downplay the diversity of the market but it’s actually hard to ignore; there are thousands of landlords to choose from, hundreds of REAs, multiple forms of accomodation from houses to room share, and lengths of contract, from years, to overnight stays. There’s no singular control or monopoly at all.

              And “locking in” is a bit of an exaggeration. I mean by the same token, I might be “locked in” to buying a loaf of bread when I just want a slice or two. Single night accomodation is readily able available. You’re not “locking in” when you agree to a mutually beneficial rental agreement. Most of them only last a year anyway, and have well defined exit fees.

              I think housing is absolutely messed up in this country, but it’s a matter of supply, and perverse tax incentives. Blaming landlords is ridiculous.

              • abb on 05/11/2021 - 12:13
                -5

                @haemolysis: For itinerant people, sure, you can rent a motel room for a night. Many people own things such as a bed that make that impractical.

                "Vendor lock-in" is a concept from the world of tech. It doesn't mean you're padlocked to the bed, it means there are significant expenses incurred in changing supplier. In this case removalists, termination fees, etc.

                Compare the ISP scenario. If my ISP is not addressing a fault, I can click a few buttons and have a new provider next day without digging a cable trench or anything.

                Now if you had a deadbeat landlord who refused to repair something, you have to wait til your lease ends or pay it out, then look for a new house, move all your junk, and just hope that the new landlord (who is unlikely to be reviewed on whirlpool for pre-signing assessment) is better.

                Imagine instead that all rental housing was centrally-administered (like the NBN) and you could select your rental provider on a monthly basis?

                Yes yes, wailing and gnashing of teeth would likely ensue from the landlords if any such proposal were seriously floated. But I think you can imagine it were the case and see the upside for the tenants.

                • haemolysis on 05/11/2021 - 16:09
                  +4

                  @abb: Whilst the comparison to an ISP makes it seem stark, at the end of the day it’s really not much different. In both cases, the vendor hasn’t entrapped the customer.

                  The time/cost of remedying ISP issues with the communications ombudsman can maybe take a week out of a 1 month plan. So, typically 25%.

                  The time/cost of moving is average in the realm of usually maybe 1-2 weeks out of a 52 week lease. So, typically 3-4% of your lease.

                  And on top of that you have recourse through things like VCAT where you can make claims on the insurance or otherwise be compensated in some instances.

                  But that aside, this thread isn’t about dodgy landlord at all. It’s about a tenant scamming their landlord out of tens of thousands in unpaid rent, having to go to VCAT multiple times, and being abusive.

                  The idea of coming into such a thread and saying “lol that’s your risk of investment” is… basically a defence of theft.

                • yannyrjl on 05/11/2021 - 21:46
                  +3

                  @abb: You do realise exactly what you said equality applies to the tenants as well right? Good landlords up keep their property, keep good tenants happy. Someone has to buy the land, build the house, get it insured, pay the mortgage regardless whether the property is rented out or not, or in OP's friend's case, have someone living in there rent free while the asset continues to depreciation and the landlord still needs to pay water, rates & perhaps land tax.

                  I can see you argument very similar to the CCP propaganda during the cultural revolution in China, promoting class warfare.

                • tomfool on 06/11/2021 - 21:49

                  @abb: There is no upside for the tenants in what you propose, that does not even make sense, the costs you are suggesting would be incurred every time you decide to move, and then in the reverse the the landlord could also advertise and kick the tenant to the kurb or are you suggesting a one way. A timed lease brings certainty to the tenant and leases typically favor the tenant where the tenant typically has to give 4 weeks notice and the landlord has to give 8.

                  As a tenant if essential items are not repaired that would be considered as grounds for breaking a lease.

            • spy on 06/11/2021 - 01:27
              -1

              @abb: Surely one can't be so deluded!?!?!

            • marcozmitch on 07/11/2021 - 12:25

              @abb: "I could have phrased that slightly better", I think not. "extract" is very strong word for exchange, i.e., what happens when people swap good and services for money.
              While there are bigger issues as already noted around economic and policy drivers, I am surprised you don't talk about social housing or communal living?

          • tetra on 04/11/2021 - 13:52
            +2

            @OzzyOzbourne: Ideally. For the basics.

          • trapper on 04/11/2021 - 14:55
            -1

            @OzzyOzbourne: What tax breaks?

            • tomfool on 06/11/2021 - 21:50
              +1

              @trapper: Only the same tax breaks any investment is given, so nothing special really.

        • greatlamp on 04/11/2021 - 13:52
          +10

          Someone cheating you isn't market risk.

          Do you say the same when small business gets extorted for protection money?

          • parsimonious one on 04/11/2021 - 14:17
            +5

            @greatlamp: Surely bad debts are a known possibility when considering an investment property?

            Ps extortion is a criminal act, failure to pay ones rent is not

            • abb on 04/11/2021 - 14:20
              -7

              @parsimonious one: But but but property only ever goes up

              • parsimonious one on 04/11/2021 - 14:41
                +10

                @abb: Of course… and if it doesn’t and I don’t get to make profit/ income, it’s the govt/ tax payers job to subsidise my bad investment choice

                One of the great ironies is that it appears the little landlords who preach about how people need to take personal responsibility for their actions/ choices seem to be the first to squeal and have their hand out when their “investment” doesn’t work out like they wanted

        • valleyrain on 04/11/2021 - 18:44
          +5

          Isn't it your responsibility to assess the risks of your investment before making it?

          Isn't it your responsibility to assess the risks of your financial situation before deciding to rent?

          • abb on 04/11/2021 - 19:12
            +2

            @valleyrain: Of course, renters should try to find a place with a price within their budget.

            What do you think renters who couldn't work due to the pandemic should have done? Violate the public health order (and other laws) to sleep under a bridge? In that scenario the landlord probably wouldn't be getting rent anyway because hardly anyone was looking to move.

        • qtntom on 05/11/2021 - 16:54

          Bet this guy a politician.

        • Ahbal on 05/11/2021 - 20:00

          Yes, landlords shouldnt abuse the situation, but neither should tenants.

          both can be bad people.

          You shouldn't rent what you cant afford (live within your means) but the landlords should (some are) also be considerate of people in difficult circumstances.

        • nikey2k27 on 06/11/2021 - 06:58

          ok let everybody sell all rentals we let all renters be homeless or let gov take care of it think of all homeless

          • cameldownunder on 06/11/2021 - 16:45

            @nikey2k27: Everybody sells >> prices come down >> renter can buy properties >> everybody happy !

        • CalmLemons on 06/11/2021 - 18:16

          wtf. Your life is your responsibility. Not the governments. Not ours. Get your life together.

          When I mean you, I mean those who may think WE are responsible for their essentials in life.

          You are responsibly for building your own brick house.

        • baldur on 07/11/2021 - 21:45

          drinking water is sold in this cruel world, my friend.

    • Vote for Pedro on 04/11/2021 - 15:03
      +1

      Yeah, just follow the steps

    • furyou on 05/11/2021 - 22:57
      +2

      Been thru similar when I was younger. A Month of no rent before you can start to do proceedings. That itself takes months, then damaged place, pay to do the court stuff.
      This and landlords always being treated like crap by media and whingers is why I refuse to invest in property anymore.

      The same whiners now wonder why they can't rent anything.

      • cameldownunder on 06/11/2021 - 16:46
        +1

        is why I refuse to invest in property anymore.

        A toast to that !

      • netjock on 06/11/2021 - 21:46
        +1

        I refuse to invest in property anymore

        The odd thing about property investors is. Borrow 80% to buy a $700k property (believe the average loan is somewhere around $750k right now in Australia). You wouldn't put $700k down all at once even on Woolworths or Commonwealth Bank shares why would you put it against a property and trust the quality of the renter that they won't stop paying when most banks think their trustworthiness is reflected in personal loans of 5% - 10%.

        Most of the time people don't tell you about horror stories of owning property. Nobody wants to be a party pooper at BBQs about their horror stories, usually they'd say how they made $500k (after like 10 or 15 years holding it, not backing out all the costs because it is about residual cash not some simple sold less buy price. Neither are they going to tell you they have to recycle that cash plus some additional for stamp duty to buy back in).

        This is coming from a person with a few investment properties.

  • SF3 on 03/11/2021 - 21:40
    +36

    Shouldn't this be the REA's job, given your "friend" has an agent…

    • Caped Baldy on 04/11/2021 - 08:27
      +65

      Further proof that agents are useless.

    • ckria on 04/11/2021 - 10:42
      +1

      It's been almost 4 years since I last saw someone coming from the REA for a routine inspection. I demanded them many times to come and inspect the property as well other maintenance issues but no one has showed up. I have been paying rent on time. Maybe I should stop?

      • Vool on 04/11/2021 - 11:43
        +2

        Really? Our REA is here every 3 months keeping us in line… They've never found an issue either other than 'lightbulb needs replacing'.

        • ckria on 04/11/2021 - 22:18

          I do that type of things myself. Last year, the rain water was coming down the gutters and not down pipes, I had to stop paying rent to get them fix it. Three months later, they noticed the rent wasn't coming in. I delayed rent for another few weeks until they actually sent someone to fix it. Hopeless and useless REA!

      • ChampofAus on 05/11/2021 - 17:22

        Which REA is this. May be I should hire them for my IP

    • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 10:52
      +3

      The current agent is okay and is putting a some effort into trying to resolve the issue. Unfortunately, the agent needs constant pressure to actually do their job

      • Ghost47 on 04/11/2021 - 12:47
        +3

        This isn’t a surprise is it?

      • gromit on 04/11/2021 - 13:58
        +21

        If the Agent needs constant pressure to do their job then they are no okay.

      • rentonc on 05/11/2021 - 10:39
        +1

        Switch agents and tell the new agent exactly why so they get the message.

      • mhz on 05/11/2021 - 16:31
        +1

        I had an agent that was like that. I find the bigger ones do next to nothing and just collect their cut of the rent. Go with a more reliable independant agent who will go the extra yards for you

  • Basicbupa on 03/11/2021 - 21:41
    +20

    Mate it took you longer to post this than googling didn’t it?

    • markathome on 04/11/2021 - 10:17
      +18

      In fairness to OP and as hinted by slow it's a little less straightforward than consumer affairs would have you believe. Asking for lived experiences and advice isn't a terrible idea in these situations.

    • markathome on 04/11/2021 - 10:21
      +1

      Makes more sense than the folks who ask the OzBargain crowd for highly specific legal advice based on information they are won't disclose because it's not something you'd usually post on an internet forum. 😁

  • randomusername2017 on 03/11/2021 - 21:41
    +1
    • ~
    • atali on 04/11/2021 - 12:12
      +1

      username checks out

    • 900dollaridoos on 04/11/2021 - 14:33
      +1

      Too political

  • tsunamisurfer on 03/11/2021 - 21:42
    +13

    Rip out all the electrical fuses from the meter box. Lock the meter box.

    Turn off the mains water, lock the tap.

    • Hybroid on 03/11/2021 - 21:44
      +25

      This likely increases the chances of tenants destroying the home in spite. They're already mentioned as not the nicest folks.

      • tsunamisurfer on 03/11/2021 - 21:47
        +4

        They know how to game the system. Going via proper channels to get orders then a second order then the bailiffs is going to take months at which time they will trash it anyway.

      • zonra on 03/11/2021 - 22:39
        +11

        To be fair it is almost certain they will trash the home before they leave regardless.

      • Zachary on 04/11/2021 - 11:20
        +2

        Then grab a few bikie mates, roll up to their house and demand them to leave. They're not gonna mess with you or the bikies….unless they have a death wish…

        • funnysht on 04/11/2021 - 18:12
          +6

          Plot twist ..theey ARE the bikies

          • rinco on 05/11/2021 - 16:25
            +2

            @funnysht: Second plot twist… OP is the tenant and the landlord is their lifelong friend.

      • Antikythera on 05/11/2021 - 16:17
        +1

        Landlords insurance would cover a nice renovation if the tenants trash the place.

    • DreadPirateRoberts on 03/11/2021 - 21:45
      +8

      That did come up but we figured violating the Geneva convention wasn't the best idea

      • tsunamisurfer on 03/11/2021 - 21:48
        +7

        The Geneva convention applies to humans, these are below as a species.

        They deserve no rights, no sympathy, no recourse.

        • Mugsy on 04/11/2021 - 10:10
          +14

          In that case, calling pest control would be the way to go!

    • hueylewis on 04/11/2021 - 09:22
      +12

      actually i had the same thing happen to me. just the other way around. tenant trashed the place did not pay rent. would not leave. instigated proceedings. *(where he kicked chairs around the room and got away with that too) after 2 hearings and months later when finally thrown out by police. he came back and out of pure malice, removed and threw all the circuit breakers into the creek in backyard. he then managed to find the garden hose in all his yard junk of car wrecks and busted up stolen washing machines and put a hole in the door and put the garden hose through it and flooded the house. this sack of excrement was evil personified. and yes there was an agent managing the property. the same agent that leased it to the scumbag. and no, back then landlord insurance was not a thing.

      • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 10:53
        +2

        I'm sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like a horrible time. I think my friend will be in the same boat soon though…

        • hueylewis on 04/11/2021 - 15:04
          +1

          thanks. painful but valuable life lesson. don't trust agents, don't trust tenants. don't give them an inch, they will both stomp all over you if they can. won't happen to me again.

      • SoapyWooder on 04/11/2021 - 13:11

        What's tenant's occupation?

        • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 13:31
          +1

          Drug dealer moonlighting as an unemployed tradie. Rent was always paid in cash until COVID when agent stopped taking cash. So tenant basically stopped paying rent and doesn't pay any rent now, even though agent is taking cash again. Really a stellar tenant

          • cameldownunder on 06/11/2021 - 16:55

            @DreadPirateRoberts: Who vetted that renter? Did the cash payment influence your decision ? Happy to get cash, maybe even a bit more that on contract?

            • DreadPirateRoberts on 06/11/2021 - 17:27

              @cameldownunder: Agent vetted the tenant and friend wasn't involved too much other than "This guy is fine. Rent it to him". Was employed as a tradie as far as we were aware but couple months in started getting sporadic with payments and became cash. Agent asked and he was " between jobs". So unfortunately, no extra money for cashies :(

      • 900dollaridoos on 04/11/2021 - 14:35

        what was the net outcome? How much did you lose, was there no way of prosecuting etc.? I'm curious because this is the nightmare case everyone talks about, I always wondered how it would actually end up.

        • hueylewis on 04/11/2021 - 15:29
          +3

          did not even want to tally up the thousands in lost rent, damage, time, effort, stress.
          put me off renting out for years.
          ended up just land banking like the chinese investors do at docklands.
          left it empty, was not that much difference after factoring in the costs outlays etc.
          it was only a small place, but on the beach, so it was still a good investment.
          25 years ago and the tenant was still given every opportunity to put on the sob story and they have to keep giving them the benfit of the doubt.
          when i submitted photos of the crap and damage, he got up and chucked a tantrum, kicked chairs around. the squares were all woke and sympathetic and intimidated at the same time. they could not or would not deal with it.
          druggie who attracted every POS from miles around, dealing and the coming and going of his buddies/clients.
          had the girlfriend and baby, so he knew how to work the system.
          go to tribunal, lay on the hard luck and tears and promises to pay the arrears and catch up. they have to give them a chance, and that delays the eviction for months.
          of course he pays a couple of hundred bucks every few weeks just so that next tribunal, he shows that he has been 'trying' but now he has had health problems, teeth etc and needs all his welfare for the baby etc and how that if you kick him out he will lose his opportunity at that ceo investment banking job he has lined up blah blah just stall for months and months. meanwhile if you think the place was crap before that, now it got even worse, junkies would turn up with stolen bbq's and garden furniture from the neighbours to pay for a hit.
          this guy had done it all before and knew how to really work the system. no black list back then, but they know how to ger around that too, not hard.
          i was going to wait a few years and pay him a visit but prob dead now anyway.

      • trapper on 04/11/2021 - 15:03
        +1

        Did he get prosecuted for all the criminal damage?

        • hueylewis on 05/11/2021 - 08:26

          ha, you're kidding, right? these worms disappear into the ether faster than a fart in a windstorm.
          cops don't want to know about it, as far as they are concerned it is just a civil dispute.
          and even if he was charged, the mag would give him a pat on the head and say dont do it again.
          even with a list of priors a mile long, they won't stick them in the bin, because they see it of no use as it is not even a deterrent to them.
          the punishment factor is last on the list of justice, because it is waaay woker to make them promise to get some sort of treatment.
          forget about suing, or orders and costs, they have nothing to take anyway and garnishing their welfare is tantamount to a breach of the geneva convention.

          • trapper on 05/11/2021 - 10:48

            @hueylewis: Destroying property is not a civil dispute though.

            • hueylewis on 05/11/2021 - 11:25
              +1

              @trapper: correct.
              but when it is done in the dead of night with no witnesses and no evidence apart from a theory that it is likely that the ex tenant, who has disappeared, and even if he was interviewed would admit nothing, is not going to get anywhere near authorization for court prosecution.
              thus the cops write it off as c.a.a. civil action advised.

              • trapper on 05/11/2021 - 13:41

                @hueylewis: Ah right yeah fair point. No evidence, no prosecution.

  • TEER3X on 03/11/2021 - 21:43
    +8

    Leeches not leaches

  • hm on 03/11/2021 - 21:48
    +1

    In before stoopid bikies comment

    • holdenmg on 03/11/2021 - 21:57
      +12

      Damn, I was going to get to Bikkies (lure them out with TimTams).

      Oh, I dunno Eddie, I think the answer is either thug, hitman and enforcer or Mick Gatto.,,

      Mick Gatto, Eddie, Lock it in…

  • Mikeyy888 on 03/11/2021 - 21:51
    +3

    Sorry you got squatters I know someone who took 2 years to remove them and were left owing like 20k not including all the costs to fix and fumigate the home before it could be rented again……

    • aragornelessar on 03/11/2021 - 22:21
      +20

      Could you compress the timeline and start fumigating while they were still in there?

    • EightImmortals on 04/11/2021 - 07:05

      Landlords insurance?

  • dasher86 on 03/11/2021 - 21:57
    +4

    Bikies

    • SF3 on 03/11/2021 - 23:44
      +1

      Maybe the tenants are Bikies and running a “lab”…

      • holdenmg on 03/11/2021 - 23:56
        +7

        Thats' just crazy talk.

        Greyhounds run better than labs.

        Labs make good sniffer dogs, and bikies wouldn't really want that.

        Also, how come the food at Bikies is so bad, despite them having so many cooks?

        So confused. lol

      • gromit on 04/11/2021 - 14:04
        +3

        talking to my friends who used to live next door to bikies and rent a house to one of them, bikies are actually pretty damn immaculate tenants for the most part. The last thing they want is to provide police with an excuse to come knocking, especially if they are involved in illegal activities.

        • holdenmg on 04/11/2021 - 15:01
          +1

          Well, when "Breaking Bad" was on Television they were all taking careful notes.

          Who would have thought they would all sit around after and compare their movie reviews?

  • rektrading on 03/11/2021 - 21:59
    +10

    This is one of the reasons why real estate investing blows. Another one is blocked toilets.

    Low returns and endless counterparty risk, no thanks.

    • parsimonious one on 04/11/2021 - 09:59
      +34

      Unpopular opinion around these parts but, It also “blows” for:

      1) anyone wanting to buy their own home as investors drive up prices
      2) the tax payers subsidising negative gearing

      Little landlords should do everyone a favour and invest elsewhere

      • derrida derider on 04/11/2021 - 14:03
        -3

        And how does people not renting out houses add to housing supply? If no investors, no houses to rent - which means rents and house prices would both be HIGHER, not lower.

        In the long run the people rotten tenants really hurt are precisely low income people without a track record - because if you are an investor and you can't get rid of a rotten tenant you will simply refuse to rent out to bad risks.

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