Evicted Tenant Won't Leave

LDreadPirateRoberts on 03/11/2021 - 21:38
Last edited 03/11/2021 - 23:18 by 1 other user

My "friend" has an investment property that they have rented out to a tenant.

The tenant owes $9k+ in unpaid rent and has been to VCAT once already (VCAT ruled that they couldn't be evicted due to the COVID moratorium). Since then, they still have not paid enough rent and now the property manager has sent them an eviction notice. The tenant is abusive and unruly toward the agent and hasn't left the property (eviction date was late week as per notice). Another VCAT hearing has been organized for whatever the next step is but it got me wondering.

If the tenant isn't going to leave (very likely), how do you get rid of them? Pretty sure cops won't do anything.

Poll Options

  • 320
    The police will nab him and throw tenant to the curb
  • 33
    Tenant lives in the property indefinitely, rent and worry free
  • 136
    Landlords suck and are leaches on society. Good on the little guy for sticking it to the system!
Home & Garden

Comments

        • parsimonious one on 04/11/2021 - 14:29
          +12

          Hard to tell if you are being serious

          Firstly prices are a product of supply and demand. If there were fewer investors there are fewer parties competing for any given property

          Secondly, as it stands and all else being equal, if people were to forgo their little landlord aspirations and sell their properties there would be more properties on the market available for people who would like to own their own home

          Your sentiment, is the classic icing on the cake of the little landlord, ie trying to convince others (and deluding yourself) that you are someone doing us all a favour by owning more properties than you yourself require

          • sclyde2 on 04/11/2021 - 16:03
            -4

            @parsimonious one: Hard to tell if you are being serious.

            Your theory on supply, focussing on the properties that are for sale, is very short term focussed. Yes, de-incentivising investors to invest in properties would boost the supply of properties for sale in the short term.

            But what about long term? I think derrida derider was alluding more to the long term impacts of reduced property investment - i.e. less properties being developed. so less properties full stop. sooner or later, that will result in less properties being for sale, and your little short term illustration about supply and demand goes out the window.

            no, i dont own an investment property, only the house i live in.

          • derrida derider on 04/11/2021 - 19:21
            -4

            @parsimonious one: I, too, have no investment property.

            Yes, prices are set by supply and demand.

            But the demand for housing is perfectly independent of who owns the houses - it is set by the number of households that need housing. Who has legal title to the house just determines whether the occupant pays a landlord or a bank.

            You are assuming the number of houses - supply - is fixed. So it is in the short run - ie in the period, say six months, it takes to build new houses. But supply is not fixed over even the medium, let alone long, term; it depends on people building new houses. And if you don't let people make a profit out of those houses they won't be built. So kicking investors out of housing markets leads to shorter supply - and hence higher prices.

          • derrida derider on 07/11/2021 - 20:38

            @parsimonious one: I own only my own house.

            This is what economists call "comparative statics" - ie you are assuming a fixed number of properties available for living in. My point on supply is precisely that the prospects of profit makes it worthwhile building more houses than would otherwise be built - that is, supply is not fixed except in the short run.

            My other point is that demand IS fixed by things other than price - the number of people wanting a house to live in, proxied by the rate of household formation. The number of Investors has little to do either way with that side of the market.

            Put it like this - if investors were buying up houses and leaving them empty it would indeed be a problem. But they buy them to put people in them (to get rent d'err) which means more people are being housed.

            None of which is to say investors are being wise in the current bubble - the eventual bust will wipe out far more landlords than own homeowners. But investors doing their dough will create LESS, not more, housing. As in the big property bust of 2009 in the US more, not fewer, people will be homeless as a result.

        • cameldownunder on 06/11/2021 - 17:03
          +2

          If no investors, no houses to rent

          That myth again. Gets old. Or do you think all property investors buy new apartments and houses ?

          Because if it's not new, then it does not provide to "building houses"

      • Fornax on 04/11/2021 - 21:43
        -4

        @parsimonious one Before negative gearing was introduced people still werent able to afford houses and there was a massive problem with a lack of available rental properties so government introduced negative gearing as it was cheaper than investing in social housing. It worked really well and delivered immediate benefits to community but combined with slow green belt land releases and very little investment into social housing it's driven up house prices. If negative gearing was to stop without a significant increase in social housing those that can't afford to buy a house will face much higher rents and less availability.

    • Scantu on 04/11/2021 - 11:32
      +3

      6% P/A return/opportunity to reduce your taxes, and insurance? Can't be that bad surely

      • rektrading on 04/11/2021 - 12:10
        +1

        6% in rental income is nothing compared to the stress some landlords have to put up with. The capital gain on real estate is good but isn't easily accessible without refinancing.

        I prefer hard liquid assets that I can borrow against or liquidate in 30 seconds.

        • Scantu on 04/11/2021 - 13:06
          +1

          Shares or something else? If so, who are you using for margin?

          • netjock on 06/11/2021 - 21:50

            @Scantu: Rektrading is crypto person. They found someone stupid enough to lend on margin at 1%. Good if you can find someone dumb enough to lend you money at crazy low rates.

      • tomfool on 04/11/2021 - 15:44

        Very hard to find a rental property returning 6% after costs. Add agents fees, land tax, rates and maintenance and returns get eaten into very quickly.

        Shares offer exactly the same opportunity tax wise, negative gearing, with little outlay and greater liquidity.

        • Scantu on 04/11/2021 - 17:23
          -1

          That was 6% in revenue, as is standard in the industry.

          The problem with shares is that you can start to generate wealth, but you don't have access (as easily/cheaply) to leverage which is the main reason people make money buying property. That's really the central issue.

          • irony on 05/11/2021 - 08:36

            @Scantu: Yeah, bring on 6% gross…
            When was that? I have owned rentals for decades, never had gross returns above 5.2%.
            They call it Negative Gearing for a reason, rent doesn't cover costs…. If it did they would be no Negative.
            Even with interest rates a record lows, Positively geared propeties are a rarity due to high house prices.

      • funnysht on 04/11/2021 - 18:15

        Then why don't you do it?

        • Scantu on 04/11/2021 - 20:22

          I probably will, thanks or your concern?

      • drfuzzy on 04/11/2021 - 23:50

        Who gets 6% PA? I get about 2.5% on a newly constructed property with all the mod-cons.
        Clearly you aren't talking about Melbourne or Sydney.

        • Scantu on 05/11/2021 - 10:17

          Revenue

          • markathome on 06/11/2021 - 17:37

            @Scantu: It doesn't matter. If you assumed my landlord was paying $480k for my apartment, he gets 3.8% in "revenue" from me. But here's the problem - even the most economically-managed apartment usually costs $60/wk in fees - a place like mine probably $100/wk when you factor in body corporate, water and council rates. So that immediately cuts it down to 2.7%. If there was a loan for $300k that'll shave off another 1.4% provided he's done the dodgy and declared it a PPoR. Already we're down to 1.3%. So why on earth would anyone invest property? Negative gearing and capital gains.

            • Scantu on 06/11/2021 - 20:37

              @markathome: It literally does matter though lol because if the rent covers the cost you won't be negative gearing any more.

              So on what earth is that not a factor?

              Also - 1.3% net return is totally respectable, considering capital gains.

    • dirtybigbjelke on 04/11/2021 - 12:03
      +3

      Shares never need repainting and new carpets :D

      • Scantu on 05/11/2021 - 10:18
        +1

        Correct but you don't have access to anywhere near the amount of leverage as you do with property as a retail. And shares vs. property aside, the main reason you make money in investing is leverage.

        • tomfool on 05/11/2021 - 20:50

          Plenty of margin loans allow for 90% borrowing,interest is higher then on propery but thats a risk factor. Negative gearing on shares aswell and catpital gains discount for holding over 12 months. There is plenty hate on landlords but any investment vehicle is offered the exact same rules as property investment.

          • Scantu on 06/11/2021 - 00:53

            @tomfool: yeah exactly, interest is higher. No margin calls on property. They ain't the same thing, at all

        • rektrading on 05/11/2021 - 21:30

          Other markets have plenty of leverage. Stonks 20:1, crypto 125:1, indices 500:1, bonds 1000:, forex 3000:1.

          • Scantu on 06/11/2021 - 00:53

            @rektrading: margin calls, significantly higher interest rates, not the same

            • rektrading on 06/11/2021 - 02:42

              @Scantu:

              Correct but you don't have access to anywhere near the amount of leverage as you do with property as a retail.

              You said leverage. You didn't specify what type of leverage.

              Anyways, I can borrow $250,000 at to 99% LTV at 0.61% APR. That is with no credit checks and a >7.00% APY on the lending.

              • Scantu on 06/11/2021 - 17:19

                @rektrading: I did specify, I said that leverage is the easiest and safest on property specifically.

                Also, either 1) bullshit or 2) there are some very big catches you aren't talking about

              • netjock on 06/11/2021 - 21:53

                @rektrading:

                Anyways, I can borrow $250,000 at to 99% LTV at 0.61% APR. That is with no credit checks and a >7.00% APY on the lending.

                That is just stupid people lending money. Bound to end up in tears. Never seen a bank lend at 0.61% and give 7% on cash deposit. Recipe for disaster. You know the saying about scams: when it is too good to be true it probably is. Enjoy it while you can just don't get caught out at the end.

    • MrFunSocks on 05/11/2021 - 15:15

      Not all rentals are investment properties. I just rented my first house out that I bought and lived in for 13 years.

      • tomfool on 05/11/2021 - 20:51
        +2

        So its now deemed an investment…

        • parsimonious one on 05/11/2021 - 21:04

          Haha

        • MrFunSocks on 06/11/2021 - 13:10

          It wasn't bought as an investment property, which makes a difference.

          • jackary on 06/11/2021 - 20:42

            @MrFunSocks: How? Why?

            • MrFunSocks on 08/11/2021 - 18:20

              @jackary: You don't see how there's a difference between someone buying a property with the single intention of renting it out vs someone buying a property and living in it for 10 years and then renting it out instead of selling it?

              • parsimonious one on 08/11/2021 - 18:46
                +1

                @MrFunSocks: Now you aren’t living in it, it is an investment property.

                You yourself said you didn’t want to sell for a loss.

                Therefore if you are keeping it with the intent of making money from it, either from rent or capital gain, it is an investment property.

                • MrFunSocks on 09/11/2021 - 10:55

                  @parsimonious one: Again though, you're ignoring the clear difference between having purchased it specifically as an investment property is very different to deciding to rent it out vs sell it when you move to a new house.

                  • rektrading on 09/11/2021 - 11:14

                    @MrFunSocks: Real estate is an investment instrument. It doesn't make a difference whether the owner lives in it or rent it out.

                    Classifying real properties as PPOR and IP is an accounting and tax liability matter.

  • iamherenow on 03/11/2021 - 22:00
    +17

    I feel like your "friend" may be your landlord…

    • Ghost47 on 04/11/2021 - 01:07

      Or the OP is the landlord?

    • BeamMeUp on 04/11/2021 - 10:02

      Yes, why haven’t you they paid the rent?

  • Hardlyworkin on 03/11/2021 - 22:01

    Is it still considered an investment property at this point?

    • rektrading on 04/11/2021 - 01:00
      +7

      The $9,000 will be good for negative gearing.

  • DingoBilly on 03/11/2021 - 22:02
    +8

    Isn't this what Landlord Insurance is for essentially? Hopefully your friend was smart enough to get some.

    • Clear on 04/11/2021 - 10:36

      If you're getting new landlord insurance you'll find many are starting to stop covering rent defaults due to COVID among other things.

      • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 10:54

        This is what happened when the renewal came around so no longer any COVID protection :/

        • Clear on 04/11/2021 - 11:09

          Exact problem I had at renewal. So many people don't read the PDS when renewing so they miss out.

          • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 11:10

            @Clear: Agent renewed the insurance and let us know after the fact. Didn't get a chance to read the PDS before they did…

            • Clear on 04/11/2021 - 11:11
              +4

              @DreadPirateRoberts: I don't let the property managers handle the insurance because they're usually only recommending companies that give them referral $$$.

              • Carmen Sandiego on 05/11/2021 - 12:02

                @Clear: Property Agents are the reason why I don't want to go back to dealing with SMEs' and situations where they manipulate everyone and tell absolutely the wrong Insurance advice

            • Carmen Sandiego on 05/11/2021 - 09:05

              @DreadPirateRoberts: I'm horrifically disturbed that the agent did that

  • thatonethere on 03/11/2021 - 23:05
    +1

    Could try offering them a deal to leave and write off part of the debt or all of it?

  • serpserpserp on 03/11/2021 - 23:10

    Ummmm Bikies?

  • bdl on 03/11/2021 - 23:18

    Stoopid Bikies

  • jv on 03/11/2021 - 23:23
    -4

    fixed…

    Thread closed…

  • Cyphar on 03/11/2021 - 23:38

    Mortatorium has been lifted so your friend should get the eviction passed through VCAT. It'll take a while to get that processed and then more time again for the police/sheriff to organise the eviction.

  • Mechz on 03/11/2021 - 23:40
    +1

    Sell the property and make it someone else's problem.

    • Mugsy on 04/11/2021 - 09:39

      The friend would probably still get a profit in this market!

    • t_c on 04/11/2021 - 11:06

      Is this possible and how would it all play out?

    • TEER3X on 04/11/2021 - 11:13

      Could put in the description committed life time tenant

  • Bob Svargis on 04/11/2021 - 07:13
    +1

    That’s what your friend’s agent should be sorting out, that’s their job.

    Your friend’s agent should be engaging the sheriff to physically remove them. That’s what my agent did when I had tenants that wouldn’t pay rent or leave.

  • alxr0101 on 04/11/2021 - 07:54
    +14

    Paying for an agent to manage the property, but you have to come here to ask about eviction processes?

    What are they being paid for?

    • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 10:55
      +1

      My friend asks themselves every day… Will wait for this shitstorm to blow over before finding another agent

      • funnysht on 04/11/2021 - 18:17
        +1

        Better for him to just turn up at the agents office and starting telling other ppl what his experience has been

  • ozboygsl on 04/11/2021 - 09:11

    been in this type of situation a number of times, although I never let it get to this stage. the only answer { that I found worked every time} couldn't be said here as it would result in the thin-skinned army complaining about the truth being spoken and having my account suspended. { draw your own conclusions from that}. cops won't do anything, and in many cases will side with the perpetrator. maybe consider legal action against the agent { I've never used them so I'm not sure what sort of agreements they have in place}.

    • SlickMick on 04/11/2021 - 10:12
      +5

      There are clear processes in place for each state. Yeah, they work in tenants favour and landlord will see a loss. But action should have been taken 1st week rent was overdue, and tenant would be on the street within a month.Because it's gone to the tribunal, tenant will have a notice to pay arrears and fix damage beyond what bond covers. Would probably need to engage a debt collector to actually recover it.
      At least that tenant won't be renting in that state again.

      • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 11:08
        +1

        Unfortunately because of the COVID moratorium they were not able to be evicted, despite being months behind on rent. They were put on a payment plan and have not even been able to pay that. Back to VCAT we go…

        • SlickMick on 04/11/2021 - 13:14
          +4

          Yeah sorry, I forgot about the sufferings of you southerners. Those policies totally ignored the circumstances of landlords.

    • UrbanLegend on 11/11/2021 - 18:49

      Try that with the wrong person, and the consequences could be more severe than a trip to the Big House.

  • OzHunterNSW on 04/11/2021 - 09:41
    -1

    You initiate another Tribunal and have them evicted… if they fail to vacate, then the Police will drag them out.
    Via Tribunal, you seek all rents, and all bonds.

    • ozboygsl on 20/12/2021 - 17:31

      cops will not drag out. period

  • weezlebub on 04/11/2021 - 10:19
    +11

    i was self managing, had tenants stop paying (centrelink paid deposit & 2 weeks advance, not a cent after that) … i was on top of it from day 1, frequent communication from me, they didn't respond, i lodged it with tenancies tribunal after 1 month late on paying with no response …
    went to tribunal, they made payment arrangement …
    1st payment missed, lodged another tribunal hearing (it was about a month away, they didn't pay in that time either)
    tribunal gave them payment arrangement
    1st payment missed, lodged with tribunal
    tribunal was about to give them another payment arrangement and I had to say "they haven't paid a cent since moving in, it's now almost 6 months, a payment arrangement will not suffice, i will need all arrears paid in full - tribunal gave them 2 weeks and a sheriffs order after that date, they were gone in 2 weeks (with all of the furniture, i rented it out fully furnished)

    get onto it straight away, this covid thing is going to be messy with all of these tenants claiming squatters rights

    • Clear on 04/11/2021 - 10:38
      +1

      (with all of the furniture, i rented it out fully furnished)

      Did you have contents insurance included in your landlord insurance? My previous insurer added in contents insurance and I wondered why I needed it. Makes sense in your case.

    • CtrlAltSpoods on 04/11/2021 - 10:52
      +21

      I don't understand why squatters even have rights.. If you can't afford to live there, then get out and f**k off.
      The system is rewarding people for doing the wrong thing.

      (inb4 a bunch of squatters downvote)

      • TEER3X on 04/11/2021 - 11:15
        +1

        Aren't there some professional squatters where the idea is to gain ownership through adverse possession?

        • funnysht on 04/11/2021 - 18:19

          That's fine if that's their profession but most squatters are just lazy

          • gromit on 05/11/2021 - 08:38

            @funnysht: Its not really fine, it is usually little more than theft through manipulation of outdated laws intended for abandoned properties. adverse possession is something that needs to be removed or become something only the government can claim. The way the laws are now you can potentially face this situation by taking a long overseas holiday.

            • funnysht on 05/11/2021 - 09:06

              @gromit: sarcasm doesnt go through online that well..

              • gromit on 05/11/2021 - 09:25

                @funnysht: I did wonder, but it literally is the profession of some gangs and individuals now. When there is a chance to take advantage of someone the vultures are always circling.

        • spaceflight on 05/11/2021 - 21:49

          They need to be in the property for 12 years.

    • TEER3X on 04/11/2021 - 11:19
      +4

      Pretty fked up you were on it from day 1 and still took over 6 months

      Good luck to those idiots trying to get another property to rent.

      Not sure how many renters are going to be paying back the rent after having a 6 month moratorium, I like to think most people do the right thing however.

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 04/11/2021 - 15:02
      +3

      fkn cockroaches.

  • Rhubarb Jones on 04/11/2021 - 10:45
    +2

    Whatever you do, don't treat them like humans. Dirty damn renters.

  • pogichinoy on 04/11/2021 - 10:52
    +3

    Vile scum.

    I hope your friend gets the money they're owed and can get the property back.

  • Herbse on 04/11/2021 - 10:54
    -1

    How does someone have an investment property but now know something as simple as this or the ability to look it up? 😂

    • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 11:09
      +1

      The COVID moratorium has changed things. We're not even sure VCAT will side with my friend and evict the tenant. I know that the moratorium is over but we don't have high hopes

    • Clear on 04/11/2021 - 11:10

      They don't hand you a book of rules when you buy a house and decide you want to rent it out.

      • Ghost47 on 04/11/2021 - 12:20
        +1

        Ideally one would consider these types of risks with any sort of investment.

        • Clear on 04/11/2021 - 12:24

          Sure but the rules now are different to how they used to be. COVID has changed them all and now you have insurance companies removing a lot of cover because of it.

          • Ghost47 on 04/11/2021 - 12:32
            +1

            @Clear: Yes that’s true but isn’t this more about just removing a tenant that doesn’t want to leave? The moratorium seem to have ended in March unless there was another put in place due to the 6th lockdown. Surely the rules aren’t that you can’t kick a tenant out for nonpayment of rent?

        • funnysht on 05/11/2021 - 09:08
          +1

          that's true but that's like saying- if you open a fish chips store and ppl come and rob and trash the place every week for 6 months…"you should have planned for that"

  • JimB on 04/11/2021 - 11:22

    Does 'your friend' have landlord insurance with rent default?

    • AustriaBargain on 04/11/2021 - 20:20

      Probably not. Getting an "investment property" is meant to be easy money, why would you pay extra for insurance for something that's meant to easily double your money within 10 years?

      • DreadPirateRoberts on 04/11/2021 - 22:51

        Yes, there is insurance but will need to check it out because it doesn't cover COVID problems anymore. Since the tenant wasn't evicted due to COVID hardship or whatever it was, not sure if they'll pay up. Knowing insurance companies my friend will sooner see the money from the tenant than them

      • funnysht on 05/11/2021 - 09:09

        you'd see most landlord insurance have exempt for coivd related issues "mate"

        • JimB on 05/11/2021 - 11:29
          +2

          Depends on the policy and when it was taken out.

          Terri Scheer stopped issuing new policies for a while but are now offering new policies again.

          I have notice my LL my premiums had gone up quite a bit..

  • Mugsy on 04/11/2021 - 11:29
    +4

    As someone who has been in real estate for a while and also is currently a landlord, always pick a good property manager. Don't judge by price though, a very cheap property manager is usually a sign that they may miss the odd quarterly inspection. The main thing is that they need to vet prospective tenants properly. It's not a guarantee but this is where it makes all the difference to getting into a headache like OP's friend.

  • Piranha2004 on 04/11/2021 - 11:52

    My parents had a similar problem with a tenant pre Covid. Took months to get them out. Had two VCAT hearings which the tenant didnt attend and the final straw required the police to escort the removalists and locksmiths for a full day or work. Good luck to OP's friend and hope they had landlord insurance for such times.

  • SoapyWooder on 04/11/2021 - 13:10

    What's renter's occupation?

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