Title is pretty much it, new-ish car has a blind spot monitoring system. Got told by a friend that his wife got booked by the police for $400 for not turning her head over the shoulder when changing lanes, she had relied on her cars blind spot monitoring sensor.
I’ve done some googling, but I can’t seem to find anything I can rely on.
What are the laws that surround this and can you get fined for using your cars blindspot monitoring system instead of turning your head over the shoulder?
That’s why I’m looking for a definitive yes/no from a legal point of view
So call a lawyer?
Or, leave them to handle it themselves? How do you know she didn't cut off a car in the process? How would you feel if you advise them it's fine to go off the cameras/sensors, only for hers to malfunction or simply not work and she side-swipes someone?
Not every car has the same BSM system. Some have a camera, some have a simple led light.
If you want to defend her behaviour of just simply looking at an led light as an indication of whether a car is in the next lane then please tell me she's not planning to drive in WA anytime soon…
And here, whilst being an American article, it makes perfect sense for Aus as well, and likely reflects the wording in our laws.
I'll repeat what is already most likely mentioned in your vehicles manual.
"Blind Spot Assist and Active Blind Spot Assist are only aids. They may fail to detect some vehicles and are no substitute for attentive driving."
"Always check the surrounding area visually before making an actual lane change. The system is only designed to assist you in checking for vehicles at your rear when making a lane change. Due to certain limitations with the operation of this system, BSM warning light may not flash or it might be delayed even though a vehicle is in an adjacent driving lane. Always make it your responsibility as a driver to check the rear."
"Do not overly rely on the BSM function. The driver is solely responsible for safe driving. Always drive safely, taking care to OBSERVE your surroundings.
@[Deactivated]: "Got told by a friend that his wife got booked by the police for $400 for not turning her head over the shoulder"
So the police were in a position such as they could see the position of your friend's head, and whether or not she turned it.
That strongly suggests that the police may well have been to the right of your friend and slightly behind, but still fairly close.
Perhaps your post should have been " My friend cut in front of a police vehicle without looking. Can she sue the vehicle manufacturer for not building an idiot proof vehicle?"
@terrys: Exactly. Police vehicle could have been travelling at high speed and any blind spot monitor would not be able to tell you that, only turning your head to look down the lane would help. I reckon you’re on the money about them cutting the cop off.
Better call Saul
**doesn’t apply to tradesmen after 3pm
I can understand how that isn’t obvious for everyone anymore.
FMD, the only people who it wouldn't be obvious to have an amazingly close correlation to those who should proceed directly to the nearest licence shredder.
The whole story would help.
What car is this, and where is it showing them your blind spot monitoring camera.
That’s why I’m looking for a definitive yes/no from a legal point of view, So I’m still trying to chase the laws that surround this.
So you go to Ozbargain, instead of… I dunno… A lawyer?
Hmmm…
Neg 90.
Love your work 😃
I ride a motorbike and I find it interesting to see where in the lane I have to be to see the blind spot monitoring light trigger on different makes of cars. It's eye opening to see how poorly some pick me up depending on lane position and approach speed. Great tech, just use as an aid and not failsafe.
It's an observation when riding in traffic. Not all people who ride 'crotch rockets' have a death wish.
@sobriety22: OzB certainly has a crowd who absolutely hates motorcyclists and wishes them death seemingly… Funnily enough, Ozbargain also has an obsession with the Camry, and if there's one vehicle I've learnt to stay away from on the road, it's a champagne yellow camry.
scared of motorcycles. weak
Yep I've noticed similar. They seem unreliable for narrower objects like cyclists and motorbikes, this is a real issue when the two lanes are moving at different speeds.
out of curiosity which cars have the best sensors?
I can't be exact (I am concentrating more on the mirror, road and traffic itself than the car brand!) but generally Euro cars seem pretty good.
I remember a Merc that picked me up really early and tracked me through well.
There was one car that when I was sitting next to it was flickering it's light like it was deciding if I was there or not. Unfortunately I couldn't remember what make it was.
Merc's will pick you up a car length behind, even on a motorbike. Pretty good.
Yes
Not for legal reasons, but for common-sense reasons.
Remember, you're in control of a big piece of metal, you should never rely on driver aids…
I hope Elon Musk is not an OzBargainer…
The police has time to look at people not turning their heads?! Must be chasing dem quotas.
Or she cut someone off in the process?
Probably the cop car.
or crashed into someone
Yes, you still need to turn your head. The blind spot monitoring isn't 100% reliable. Sometimes the warning light comes on even when there isn't a car there and other times, there is no warning light/alarm when there is a car right beside you. You can't find the law because having a BSMS doesn't change anything.
Common sense tells me that you should look before changing lane.
The monitoring system is an extra precaution rather than a primary solution
Sounds like a really bad habit to rely on it
It doesn't make any sense as a precaution if you need to check by turning your head anyway.
The only use I can think of is showing that cars are around you thereby saving you from turning your head to check.
showing that cars are around you thereby saving you from turning your head to check
Yes, exactly this.
Warning light on: Extremely likely a car is nearby, do not attempt to merge.
Warning light off: Could be clear. Look and see if clear before merging.
As abb said, it does save you turning your head to check, but only if it is on.
ie, if there is a car in your blind spot, it can let you know before you head check, allowing you to decide not to attempt to change lanes, thereby avoiding the need for a head check.
That's why I made the decision to avoid having this feature included in my car when I bought it. I knew I'd get lazy and start relying on it an I always feel nervous relying on automation by default.
Not sure how anyone could be comfortable with not checking. It's bloody muscle memory for me, I'd be freaking out if I didn't turn my head before lane-changing.
Likewise, I always have a decent look around while reversing even with a camera and sensors front and back. I do rely on the camera a fair but but always check the usual mirrors and surroundings like normal.
Blind Spot Monitoring Sensor, Do I Still Need to Turn My Head?
OP you are clearly not fit to drive.
Nor the "friend"
And now they're DisabledUser :D
LOL!
I dunno… try taking off your Helmet, Neck Brace, Scarf and the Sunnies.
Free the n_ _k.
Peace Out.
Just when I thought we had literally scratched the bottom of the stupid questions barrel…
Just so you know, if you have reversing sensors, you don't have to look behind you when backing up…
Well, OP was the one behind this gem:
This forum topic is not published.
Legal/Moral Concerns of Pulling a Gel Blaster (Toy Gun) to Intimidate Teens
Lol
This is hilarious, can I do this with all posts that have been removed like the waybacktimemachine.com ?
I'd have been more concerned about the life expectancy concerns, especially if I had a dark sun-tan….
Volvo manual says Driver should be in the Front Seat, (Right Hand Side for Australia).
Uses images of crash test dummy facing forward as obviously some tried kneeling on the Seat and using their Heels and lower spine to Steer.
Yeah?
Thanks for admitting me to the 50% non-idiot category. :+)
OzB isn't the place to ask about the legal obligations you should already know of.
That you are checking out of anxiety is a concern, get some help. (RUOK?)
That it is "Blind Spot" Monitoring doesn't suggest in any way that dispenses with turning your head to lane check.
Worrying that you'll hit something if you don't do a blind spot check sounds healthy to me
Feel good about yourself mate?
Pretty much, with an over glow of smug self satisfaction after knowing I earned my license and didn't just cut it off the side of a weet-bix box.
My question is looking for the legal obligations
You have not even mentioned what state you are in, so we cant possibly give you a "legal" answer because we dont even know what road rules apply.
Let's assume you're in one 90% of the states in Australia that follow the Australian Road Rules guidlines (that counts out you WA pests)
Road Rule 148: Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic
There is no "specific" piece of legislation that says "Driver Must turn their head", but there is clear obligations put on the driver to change lanes with giving all due care and giving way to anyone that may be in that lane already. If you can "safely" do that using only blind spot monitors, do it. I just pitty any motorcyclist or bicyclist that your "friend" ends up hitting.
That being said, I have my doubts that your "friend" received a ticket for not turning their head, and it was probably more to do with changing lanes without proper care and the cop would have said "WeLL iF yOuSe UsEd YoR NeCk tO LooK…" I would need to know the infringement code from your "friends" infringement notice and cross reference that with what offense "she" has committed.
and half the comments are just me being spoken to like an idiot
Welll… You are the same guy that suggested pulling a firearm on eshays in a Macca's car park, so you do have prior form.
There is no specific legislation that says you cant wear a blindfold while driving, keen to run that gauntlet?
Edit: just found this from the Qld learner practical road test notes;
Taking the test
If your test vehicle is fitted with blind-spot mirrors, you must still look over your shoulder to make sure there are no vehicles in either blind spot.
From the Qld Road Testers handbook; 6.4.2.1, Observation/scanning and shoulder check (page 57)
Critical driving errors (all classes) (ie: instant fail)
Fails to shoulder check and signal prior to making
a lane change or divergence, where there is
significant lateral movement, which would include
moving off from the side of the road.
Again, the only reason you would not know this is if you gained your license off the side of a weet-bix box.
I had a Mitsubishi Triton for work. It had all the sensors on the back bumper. Lucky I looked one day as I was reversing out of a carpark. There was someone walking behind the car and it didn't even beep! Always look
Yep, I almost hit a kid doing the same thing. Scared the shit out of me but luckily I'd noticed some movement as I did the head check.
Remeber to stop at a stop sign as well
Does a red light mean go faster and speed through?
Everyone knows red=fast.
Great PSA. You should start a new forum thread about this.
I can't see a stop sign in my Blind Spot monitor until I already passed it and it is too late. lol
Sometimes called Stoptional
Should do a mirror check for police cars
as opposed to Lipstick check and touch-up.
The best thing about having voice based navigation is not having to stop at stop signs anymore. Google saves me a lot of time.
Ok but I already stopped at the stop sign this morning and checked for any traffic, how long can I safely ignore the stop sign for until re-stopping. I usually stop once a week although my friend seems to think if you haven't stopped at a sign at least once a day the police will fine you just to raise revenue for people on foreign licenses.
No, don't worry about looking, if you have any issues, just point the insurance companies to the vehicle manufacturer. The manufacturers state that these systems are 100% effective and infallible, and you no longer have to use your brain or eyes when operating a motor vehicle.
Obviously OP has mistaken OzBargain for a free legal Aid service.
OP Tell your 'Friend's' wife to consult with a lawyer who can do more than venture a personal opinion, they can quote the Law.
While echoing the sentiments above that you should always do a head check, I would be surprised if the actual legislation is specific enough that it actually requires you to physically turn and look over your shoulder. A fairly quick google hasn't shown up any actual road rules which require someone to do a head check, although it is frequently mentioned as a requirement for driving tests, etc.
Seems more likely they have pinged her under some sort of general 'unsafe operation of vehicle' type section.
I would look at the wording of the offence/section they have charged her with and go from there.
+1 Exactly what I found too, she should’ve checked but as far as the actual wording of it all goes I couldn’t find anything under the QLD/aus road rules too.
I would guess she got done for this given the amount of the fine:
Failing to give way to vehicle travelling in another marked lane or line of traffic | Queensland Road Rules—Section 148| 3 | $413
So maybe she cut someone off when she changed lanes, which is what she really got fined for rather than the lack of a head check?
Other one might be this, but fine amount is too high:
Driving without due care and attention | Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act—Section 83 | 3 | $551
If that one is the charge you could definitely make an argument that not doing a head check (while relying on a blind spot camera) is not necessarily equal to driving without due care and attention. I still think there is probably more to the story though.
FYI full list of QLD driving offences here.
I think the fine answers your question.
+1 for intelligently answering the actual question asked by a fellow Ozbargainer, as opposed to most of the previous, heavily opinionated, replies above. We're all human people, we've all made mistakes.
Up to you, if you crash because you turned into someone without physically looking…..guess what your insurance company will say "your at fault"
"your at fault"
I'd hope that they'd say "you're at fault", but what would I know?
overseas call centre, be glad its in english then worry about grammar
Overseas call centre. Be glad it's in English, then worry about grammar.
FTFY… :D
He didn't let them finish their sentence, they were saying "your at fault excess will be $800".
I have driven many different vehicles where the mirrors are the only way to see adjacent traffic, particularly trucks and vans. All of these vehicles were roadworthy. How can it be a legal requirement to "turn your head" to check for traffic when there are many vehicles where all you can see when you turn your head is the inside of your own vehicle?
I second this, in my newer car checking the blindspot does nothing, but the mirrors are oversized and there's no blindspot. I still do it as a rider aware driver, but it's increasingly not useful.
If your mirrors are properly adjusted, there should not be a blindspot. Most people seem to adjust their mirrors so that they can see the side of their own car. Why? Adjust them further out and see more of what you need to see!
You can’t eliminate blind spots using standard mirrors. Can minimise them, but the angle of the driver-mirror-object can’t cover everything.
I know right? I feel like everyone in this thread doesn't understand this!
I suppose its only a legal requirement if you cause/almost cause a road incident.
I think the point here is there is a standard set of road rules in each state that you must adhere to as a licence holder.
Regardless of a vehicle having any sort of monitor does not mean that you are exempt from following the rules in place.
Just because you have airbags doesn't mean you should drive recklessly, nor should you think that your reversing camera or distance sensor are there to replace your responsibility to know what is happening around you.
Basically, not knowing which state you are in - do a google search for "your state road rules" and seek the rule about turning to check blind spots.
e.g. Page 9 of this driving test guide https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads…
Lawyer here,
Section 2.5.1.1 of Driving for Dummies says head check for changing lanes is mandatory under a court of law.
Only exception is vehicles fitted with swivel computer chairs where a complete 360 swing should be executed.
Case closed.
What is the actual violation stated on the infringement? The head check or lack of is yours/her understanding, but the infringement would/should actually state the reason for the fine. Eg. 'Careless' driving (charge, not fine) is so broad that it can include the motorist taking their eyes off the road to look at something to the side.
I doubt the fine would actually be 'failed to perform head check' and I doubt you'll find any road rule stating it. A lot of effort is required to drive a vehicle safely with other vehicles around - it would be impractical to list as road rules all the influences and particulars required to drive .
Interesting point, thanks
Yep. ‘Ma’am, you failed to head check and nearly hit that car. I’m charging you with failing to give way’ (or whatever the actual charge is). Got translated to ‘it cost me $400 to not head check, ask ozbargain if that’s legal’
ask ozbargain if that’s legal
Friend didn't even ask for the group advice, OP is one of those who feels the need to interject
Driving without due care and attention
would be my choice of weapon
https://queenslandlawhandbook.org.au/the-queensland-law-hand….
This. Dangerous driving is my guess.
I wouldn’t have thought that it is a legal requirement to shoulder check. Happy to be corrected if there is a law.
Yes, you have to ensure there are no instructions. Yes, you need to give way. Yes, looking over your shoulder is a good idea along with mirror checks even when you have tech. Tech isn’t infallible. But do you really need to look over your shoulder for every lane change? Even when you are alone on the highway at night.
I’d say yes, you should look over every time. I do it naturally when I drive, regardless of how busy or quiet the road is, same with indicating. Blind spot checks are especially important to ensuring the safety of cyclists/motorcyclists. It’s extremely difficult to perceive the distance of a bike due to them having a single headlight, whereas a car has two and the distance between them allows you to determine their distance from your side mirror.
As far as legality – I’m not sure. You can fail a licence test in Victoria by not looking over your should before turning left.
I got picked up for no head check by my learner driver kid (trying to teach good habits). I’d just entered a two lane section, and could see the same car behind me before I changed from left to right lane. I mostly head check, but there are occasions where it isn’t necessary.
Teach your kid to do it every single time. I can’t count the times I was positive there was no one beside me, only to head check and see a car was in my blind spot. If you make it a habit to do it every time, no excuse, you and he/she will be better drivers.
Example: was hit by a car who didn’t check their blind spot when I was 7 months pregnant.
@iCandy: The reason I got picked up for not head checking is because I teach the kid to do it every time. It’s a good habit.
Even if it's 100% reliable (which it definitely isn't), head checks are a good habit to keep because that aid is not on the majority of cars yet. It could be disastrous if you take out another car (that doesn't have that feature) and you keep forgetting to do head checks.
no need to turn your head. just blame the car driving behind you for being distracted / not driving to conditions.
I reckon there's more to this story than you friend is telling you or than his wife is telling him.
What did the actual fine say?
I'm betting it's because she she didn't change lanes in a safe manor and caused someone to brake heavily. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen idiots traveling below the speed limit change lanes in front of a car traveling at a higher speed causing them to slam on the brakes.
Yes
Not for legal reasons, but for common-sense reasons.
Remember, you're in control of a big piece of metal, you should never rely on driver aids… they're just to assist you in the process of driving, not drive the car for you.