Failed VicRoads Driving Test for Being Overly Cautious to NOT Hit Pedestrians on The Road!

gomelbcityfc on 05/02/2022 - 12:06

Hi everyone,
I hope you can help me with a dillemma:

So, my daughter had her 1st driving test after the pandemic, but she was failed for "creating a road hazard by stopping in the middle of the road", this was the examiner's explanation.

The facts:
- She was taking the driving test with only the instructor and examiner with her in the car
- There was no dash cam, body cam, or anything else to corroborate her story
- The incident happened at an UNFLAGGED school crossing
- The time was approximately 2.40pm (within school times of 2.30-4.00pm) but there were no flags or crossing supervisor (Council cutbacks?)
- She was turning left at a roundabout, and immediately 50 meters later was the said school crossing.
- This was a divided road, with a school crossing on each side of the divider island.
- There were 2-3 young people (drunk/drugs/skylarking) around the other side of the road, going back and forth, pushing each other, eventially making their way to the divider in the middle of the road
- She slowed down, for fear they would run onto the road,
- When the people were close to her side of the road she genuinely thought they would step onto the road, and she stopped to let them cross
- Another car in the lane next to her also stopped
- The young people then crossed the road in front of her car
- The examiner immediately after that pulled her over and said she created a traffic hazard by stopping, and failed her on the spot.
- There is no dispute regarding the facts above.

The examiner AND instructor are sticking to their story: that the said "school crossing" was not officialy a crossing unless there are RED FLAGS erected on the poles next to the road. So this is to be treated as a normal open road. (After reading the Vic road rules, I reluctantly agree that this is correct in the road rules).

She was essentially asked to ignore the fact that young people/adolescents were skylarking around the road, ignore that may run onto the road at any time, and DRIVE ON!

Now, I did my driving test more than 45 years ago (in Qld in the good old days of Joh Bjelke Petersen), but I learnt from some of my copper frieds at the time that on the road THE PEDESTRIAN IS KING! No matter what, you are not allowed to hit a pedestrian. If you hit a pedestrian, you WILL be investigated, and unless you have all your ducks in a row (you were not speeding, not drunk, alert, braked on time, took reasonable action etc,) you WILL BE charged, EVEN IF THERE IS NO CROSSING MARKED.

According to (everyone) she has no course of redress or appeal to VicRoads

Our view in this case that, (forget the fact that it was a school crossing in school times) my daughter should have been commended for taking extra care to not injure people on the road while driving, SHE WAS FAILED!

I would appreciate you thoughts what she should do. I think she should forget it and move on, and she does not want to complain and get a "black mark" on her Vicroads records for fear of future discrimation.

Thanks for your attention in reading this, please advise.

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Comments

      • capslock janitor on 06/02/2022 - 12:21

        well all that could've been avoided if you saw/anticipated them and slowed down

        • field1985 on 06/02/2022 - 14:21
          +3

          I should probably clarify… The three pedestrians were walking three wide, blocking my whole lane. I had slowed down (from 80kmh) and actually moved onto the opposite side of the road (it was a dashed white line, so I was overtaking them like you would a cyclist) to give them a very wide berth. There was nothing else I could do, besides stopping dead behind three drunk (they all had long necks in hand), and evidently violent idiots (with kids in the car) and driving at walking pace in an high speed/traffic (80kmh zone) country road, which would have been even more dangerous.

          What would you have done in this situation?

          A couple of years later two idiots were killed walking on the same road (it has since been upgraded, but there is still no footpath, as it's 15km between towns):
          https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/pedestrians-in-double-fata…

      • burningrage on 07/02/2022 - 09:52
        +1

        Whoah! This reminds me back in Uni when I was driving along St Kilda Road (near the cemetary) heading towards Caulfield, a drunk ran towards me and I had to swerve and I remember my friend (we had a midnight gaming binge at Galactic Circus) said to me "If you ended up hitting him, I will be your witness as he ran to you".

        I came from a country where no matter what, if you hit a peds, you are done. Doesn't matter if he/she ran to you etc so it's reassuring in Australia you have this protection.

        One of my friends in Singapore had the same experience except he ended up killing the peds and the court was trying soooo hard to punish him and to make it worse, he was not a citizen. After 6 months trial, the court ended giving him suspended sentence for 5 years. Again, he was not speeding and a drunk ran into him.

  • trev likes bargains on 05/02/2022 - 23:45

    Chin up and move on

  • Aneurism on 06/02/2022 - 00:10
    +2

    The facts:
    Kid didn't follow the road rules and could be a danger to other people which is why they failed.

  • Wasabi Ninja on 06/02/2022 - 01:50
    +4

    Glad the testing system is working tbh.

  • T3J on 06/02/2022 - 08:22
    +1

    Poor girl has reached that age where she's firmly learnt two things..

    • Life is not fair even when you think you're doing the right thing
    • VicRoads is a great organisation to deal with, one that lasts a lifetime.

    Its one of those moments you just have to chalk up as life experience, be p*ssed off and move on else it will eat you up.

  • StalkingIbis on 06/02/2022 - 08:41
    +4

    I hate when people are unpredictable and do something contrary to the road rules. When you keep slowing down, you are basically indicating to the pedestrians that you will let them cross. They see this signal and prepare to cross which further makes you slow down/ stop.

    • sardines on 09/02/2022 - 15:01

      Yes, I dislike people slowing down/stopping when im crossing with daughter even if there are no lights/crossing to be seen for blocks - I have make certain the cars behind the inital car slowing down stop, that the traffic on the other side stop etc… I have to wave them on and wait till there is no traffic to give me ample time to deal with dropped toys etc etc and no worry about underpassing or overpassing by someone who dosnt see us and think its just someone looking at phone, lost, looking for parking/double parked etc. So many people just stop and double park in resedentual areas its normal to overtake and not really think why this person slowed down unless you see a kid running

  • OzHunterNSW on 06/02/2022 - 09:27
    +3

    Oh not another Victorian….. look….. most people fail their first test…..
    Maybe she needs to be more accretive and GET OUT THERE…. and STOP being a HAZARD to other DRIVERS.
    And you…. get out of your HELICOPTER… let her live her life!

    I bet the poor girl has been brought up timid… too afraid to even say "boo"… I bet she is shy, barely says a word… keeps to herself… has no friends… does not play sport… because of HELICOPTER parenting.

  • tomleonhart on 06/02/2022 - 09:44

    Sh*t happens. Take it as a lesson and move on. Thus acknowledge it's not the best feeling in the world failing a test.

    In a similar method, I failed my pilot license in a situation that would never ever happen in real life therefore I did not prepare for. Even the examiner said it wasn't my fault but due to technicality, failed me anyway.

  • nobro25 on 06/02/2022 - 10:30
    +1

    I think what was omitted in the story was that the driver was probably going 20km/hr in a 50 zone as she was fearing that the kids would jump out at any time. If she was going at the said limit or a few kilometres under she would've passed that situation and wouldn't need to stop in the first place.

    The instructor/ tester was probably annoyed that she was driving too slow obstructing traffic already but can't really fail her on that basis. But then when the whole situation could've been avoided if she was just driving at a reasonable speed and keeping attention more on the front of the road as opposed to the side.

  • GordonD on 06/02/2022 - 10:33
    -1

    Isn't it still policy to find some pretext to fail young learners on the first try at passing the test? So if this hadn't been the pretext, something else would have had to be.

    Over-confidence is the best predictor that a young newly-licenced driver will do something stupid. So you make sure they fail for some reason on their first try. That makes them a better driver when they do pass. Oh, and it good for business for driving instructors, because kids have to get more lessons. And its good for job opportunities for driving testers and revenue. Everyone wins.

  • SierraBMel on 06/02/2022 - 11:15

    Vic roads don’t keep track of people who complain or issue black marks. If anything they are like all government departments and more cautious when interacting with known complainers because no public servants wants the hassle of a ministerial or some whiner who they have to be cautious about documenting.

    Vic roads are not generally inclined to be nice to people. The one downside to complaining about a govt agency is after that they tend to be very by the book and skip discretionary niceness options. Vic roads rarely ever apply discretionary niceness. You’re can’t lose something you never had.

    It doesn’t matter - because the instructor’s determination isn’t subject to appeal. She’s gonna have to take the test again. Suck it up and get on with it. The instructor isn’t going to be penalised for failing a testing driver for an observed safety fault. Unless you can prove there was a discriminatory aspect - which from the story you can’t - it becomes assessor’s determination vs disgruntled learner’s whinge. You won’t win, nothing will happen to the assessor - save your time and just book another test and get on with your life.

    • burningrage on 06/02/2022 - 11:52

      To be honest, I am finding EVERY Government department does not have discretionary niceness in particular, Immigration / Border Force.

      • SierraBMel on 06/02/2022 - 16:07

        For reasons I won’t go into on a public forum, I know for certain that some agencies do have some discretionary niceness options - but that management strategies almost inevitably push staff against going that route because it’s harder to meet KPIs by being nice.

        It’s my understanding that even immigration and border force have some discretion in just how much they suck to deal with, although everyone I’ve ever met who worked for immigration or border force was desperately looking to transfer to another federal agency. But Vic transport and immigration have a very similar cultural approach of believing that they exist to enforce the rules in their area of responsibility rather than looking to be helpful.

        In other agencies - like say MP electorate officers and some other federal and state agencies - sometimes staff want to be helpful and their office culture hasn’t beaten that out of them. But being nice almost never counts towards your KPI’s - getting more stuff done faster is the mantra - and being a jerk makes that easier.

        People might take a flexible approach to be nice sometimes - but if someone say has a history of recording calls and complaining to the press or the minister? Anyone who’s seen the notes is gonna be a super professional stickler for the rules.

        Of course loads of people work for the government who are just bad at their job, and they’ll be shitty just because they’re bad at their job. But nothing you do changes how likely it is that you’ll have to work with some public servant who’s a bit hopeless if you have to interact with government employees.

  • PurchaseAnxiety on 06/02/2022 - 11:29

    It’s obviously hard to tell without being there, but unless the kids were already on the road as she approached, it sounds like the instructor made the right call. The best thing you can do on the road is be predictable. When being cautious crosses over into being polite, things start to get unpredictable and inherently more dangerous.

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 06/02/2022 - 11:54

    Sounds totally fair, needless stoping and excessive slowing does indeed cause accidents.

    While not specifically aimed at your daughter, I firmly believe the bar is set too low for passing the test. I also believe in mandatory re-testing at any licence renewal. We need to significantly raise the standard of driving on our roads.

  • espghia on 06/02/2022 - 12:39
    +1

    Sounds like she is clearly in the wrong. But, she won't get a black mark for her troubles. Remember, no good deed goes unpunished.

  • MandMs13 on 06/02/2022 - 12:42
    +1

    Maybe he picked up she was a crappy driver and this was the excuse he needed to fail her?

  • outlander on 06/02/2022 - 12:56

    It's pretty normal to fail the first time. They're looking for every reason to fail you, whether its fair or not. Hell I failed 3 times before they gave me my license, and I haven't been in a single accident in 10 years of driving. Unless you're weeded out for doing something blatantly wrong, whether you pass or not has more to do with the testing location or how the instructor is feeling that day. (Different testing locations have different standards. Some are much easier to pass at)

    Don't stress about 'black marks'. There's no such thing

  • garanon on 06/02/2022 - 13:19
    +2

    She encountered an unusual hazard and learned how to deal with it. I hope that you are not teaching her that stopping is okay or was the safest option. Pay for a new test and she won't make the same mistake again. $65 to either save her life or help her save someone else's in future. A true bargain.

  • dufflover on 06/02/2022 - 13:24

    On the topic of failing drivers for potentially unsafe driving practices they should ensure the freeway or an 80km/h+ section is part of the route. If they want to make a real difference fail everyone who does not stick to the left lane appropriately if they're a more cautious slower driver (which in itself is fine).

    Far more useful lesson than what she's learnt here, which seems to be play chicken with youths even though you always lose regardless.

  • MrFunSocks on 06/02/2022 - 13:31
    +5

    She essentially just stopped in the middle of the road so it’s no surprise that she failed.

  • RacingBull1 on 06/02/2022 - 13:42
    +1

    Please refer this

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c…

    Remember we need confident drivers on the road and overcautious drivers is another hazard on the roads.

    Ta

  • Dagwood-Dog on 06/02/2022 - 14:19

    Omg get over it. Do the test again.

  • beefmaster on 06/02/2022 - 14:31

    25 years ago a question in the NSW driving test have similar situation. The question is something along the line, you saw a person on the edge of the pedestrian foot path and looks like the person is going to cross the road. What would you do?

    a) Speed up
    b) Slow down
    c) Stop the vehicle.

    I choose B and it was wrong. The correct answer was C.

    Also I heard people fail for overly caution on the driving test. In my opinion, driver should not stop to let other people cross because this is dangerous for everyone including the driver and other drivers

    Really it just comes down to luck and a shit day.

    • random12 on 06/02/2022 - 15:05

      Not luck, she was just wrong.

      I am sick of people complaining about 'bad luck' on a driving test. NO. You were wrong. It was not bad luck.

      There is only really one case when someone can actually claim bad luck, and that is if someone else crashes into you during the test (and it is truly the other driver at fault). That is because the test is automatically stopped when there is a crash (regardless of who is at fault). But other than, there is no 'bad luck'. The driver just did not meet the standard.

      • beefmaster on 06/02/2022 - 19:13
        +1

        I never said she was right to stop and I already said should not have stopped. The bad luck is her simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  • Leeroy Jenkins on 06/02/2022 - 14:44

    Even though she was trying to do the right thing, stopping without any giveway sign, or when she doesn't have to, is dangerous on the road. She could have maintained a relatively low speed, but I have to agree with the examiner's decision in this case.

  • lazarski on 06/02/2022 - 16:50

    In the hazard test you have to hit the brakes to slow down in a situation like this when you can't even see the pedestrians

    seems like the risk was there

    the thing is the test isn't about real driving its about following the rules. Didn't know the examiners and instructor would be so pedantic about it, they are allowed to use their judgment. I drove 20 under the limit in my test and only didn't fail because the tester said I was lucky no one was behind me or something

    • random12 on 06/02/2022 - 17:05

      Context is important.

      20 under in a 40 zone is probably tolerable (and given it's a 40 zone, it's basically a school zone).

      20 under in a 60 zone is pretty annoying, and you better be in the far left lane.

      • lazarski on 06/02/2022 - 23:06

        it was a weird area with roadworks so it was 60 or 40 with multiple changes between.

        I didn't see it go back to 60 and didn't want to risk going 20 over, that would be a fail.

        Having re-read the post again. This lady didn't see it happen but is classifying the young people as either drunk or on drugs, clearly its their fault. Big Karen energy

  • UFO on 06/02/2022 - 18:04
    +6

    Jeez mate, she failed a driving test… big deal, it happens.

    The time you've spent over-elaborating the story (yes, over… how in the world do you know they were drunk or on drugs?), wasted god knows how much time typing all that drivel out, for what? A driving test! No points, no fines, no court case, no harm done. Just a driving test that by all accounts your perfectly driving daughter will pass with flying colours next go anyway.

    Get on with life mate. Your life (and my life for replying to you), is far too short.

  • hvalac on 06/02/2022 - 19:12
    +4

    Without reading I'm genuinely baffled as to why you need to get opinions as to why she has failed.. It sounds very much like you yourself should not be driving on the road if you consider what she has done as just!
    It's a shame she has to get training from one who doesn't know the rules themselves as it's just setting her up for failure and potential abuse. (I abused the (profanity) out of anyone who stops in the middle of the road to let people across unless otherwise specified)

  • juzza87 on 06/02/2022 - 19:24
    +1

    When driving on the road you have to follow the road rules and be as predictable as possible to your fellow motorists, if the motorist stopped to wave on some pedestrians at an unmarked crossing and it's a two lane road then you've created a hazard for those pedestrians because you don't know if the motorists in the other lane are going to stop or are even aware there's a pedestrian in the middle of the road.

    Always follow the road rules over being courteous.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 06/02/2022 - 22:13

    I love the 'cars have right of way' rhetoric, it explains a lot. Doubt it would comfort the dead kid's family though.

    • MorriJ on 07/02/2022 - 13:47

      Thank goodness dead kids don't play on roads though! Parents would be well advised to teach their kids who are alive to not play in traffic I would imagine. Someone slamming on their brakes to avoid hitting a child who might run across the road is a traffic hazard at the end of the day.

  • Seraphin7 on 06/02/2022 - 22:38
    +3

    creating a road hazard by stopping in the middle of the road

    Sounds like one of the textbook definitions of a road hazard.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 06/02/2022 - 22:49
    +7

    Whilst I don't dispute your/her side of the story - the examiner is a professional in an authority position to use their discretion…. and passing a driving test is something you only want to give out if someone is definitely ready (given they can kill themselves or others if they aren't competent on the road).

    People don't go out of their way to fail someone on the spot without reason. I'm sure there's more to the story whereby you had to be there (in absence of footage).
    Perhaps how your daughter went about being 'cautious', probably came across as a lack of confidence substantial enough to be a potential risk on the road for example.
    Furthermore, you do have to be aware of your surroundings and whether you've caused a traffic hazard by stopping. Maybe a car did nearly run up behind. Obviously the examiner thought it was unsafe.

    I had a similar thing where I was marked down for "progress" (but not instantly failed) for being slow to wait for cars I thought were a risk 'just to be safe'. In hindsight now many many years later, I know what I did was way over cautious and would have aggravated people behind me because I wasn't confident. At the time it just seemed like an abundance of caution was prudent as i was new on the road and in my driving test.

    Furthermore, your reaction and this post is a fairly typical protective parent response, defending her like she couldn't possibly be wrong - but what I think is missing here is respect for their judgement as a professional. It's the word of a (presumably) teenage learner driver versus a professional driving examiner alone. Don't just blindly accept her side of the story. Like referees and judges their decision is generally final and it doesn't always go your way but you need to be a good sport about it. She needs to learn to respect the judgement of people with experience, that life isn't always fair, deal with it (preferably herself), and build resilience. I'd counsel her it's just a driving test - respect the professional's opinion, learn from it, and do another one when ready. No need to go to court over it or something!!

    I agree with what you've said at the end about moving on. Taking action on her behalf is not good for your child - you shouldn't be stepping in trying to complain and 'fix' where you think someone of authority has been unfair to your kid based on their one side of the story, won't help them become the strong independent person they need to be in this world from that age onward. I doubt there'd be an official black mark but yes she's also smart not to make waves because its disrespectful of their judgement and authority and will be remembered as such. Either way, she'd have to continue / re-do a test.

  • lazarski on 06/02/2022 - 23:08
    +7

    "I hope you can help me with a dillemma:"

    there is no dilemma in your post. Test is failed, whatever the reason you can just try again. You can't call the manager and complain

  • tunzafun001 on 06/02/2022 - 23:32
    -1

    Glad to see some young people are still conscientious and aware of others.

    Unfortunately, being better than what society demands these days often comes with a cost.

    Take it on the chin, and go again. It's an unlucky incident and she wont have test people in her car forever. Tell her to never change, and one day her mindset may save someones life.

    • jv on 08/02/2022 - 01:11
      +1

      Unfortunately, being better than what society demands these days often comes with a cost.

      Yep, could have caused a serious car accident by stopping in the middle of the road.

      • tunzafun001 on 08/02/2022 - 11:42
        +1

        Rediculous… You're better than this JV. Cars have these big red lights (bold writing would suit here) on the back that show when they are stopping. Plus everyone should have a few seconds gap and have no issue coming to a stop anywhere at anytime.

        If there was a "serious accident" then that would be on the tailgaiter, not the person who is keeping an eye on pedestrians who cant help themselves.

        As a school teacher, you'd be amazed how many kids step out on the road simply because their friend did (they obviously think their friend must have checked, and the other friend is thinking the same, neither checked). If cars didn't make emergency stops (albeit against whatever road rule that might apply), I'd see a dozen dead kids a year. ..

        The arrogance I see on the road these days is sad. No one seems to have the ability to think outside their own little bubble. Maybe…just maybe that girl in front jammed on the breaks for a reason. But for some reason our stupid brains think "this girl just hit the brakes where she shouldn't…what a disgrace..beep, beep ..finger" etc. I mean we are so stupid we convince ourselves that she hit the breaks purely to annoy others.

        I'll say it again, good on her for thinking of someone other than herself.

        • jv on 08/02/2022 - 11:55

          If cars didn't make emergency stops (albeit against whatever road rule that might apply), I'd see a dozen dead kids a year. ..

          Being a teacher, you'd know about natural selection…

          • tunzafun001 on 08/02/2022 - 12:09

            @jv: Natural Selection…Never more evident than the current handling of the Pandemic.

        • MorriJ on 09/02/2022 - 21:40

          Sorry, I think you have misread the post. I thought it was clearly stated the drug/drunk/skylarking school kids had not run out onto the road/were obstructing the driver - they were on the island in the middle from the account I read. The driver who really shouldn't be licensed was worried and yielded and effectively lured the pedestrians to cross against the flow of traffic.

          If a car following had decided to go around them and plowed into the children or the car to the side of them had not also stopped (which was lucky), the OP's daughter luring children onto the roadway would be almost criminal.

          Don't stop in traffic to wave kids onto the road; it does no one any safety benefit and creates a traffic hazard.

          It costs so much to clean up the front of the car when you hit a kid and is unfair to other drivers to be luring kids onto the road.

  • Dack Smith on 07/02/2022 - 03:00
    -6

    Bad luck mate, Victoria is kind of the low place in Australia so you ain't going to get good laws or common sense, and this has been the case since the days of Ned Kelly and the corrupt police force there.

    Move up to NSW

  • Mr Haj on 07/02/2022 - 08:51

    Not sure why people bother posting these scenarios in the ozbargain forums. Nobody in here is sympathetic haha

  • Zedster on 07/02/2022 - 09:12
    +1

    Honestly hard to say without seeing any footage - it really depends on how far from the road the skylarkers were, whether they were showing intent to cross, and what you mean by "drunk". That said, since you're saying they were "on the other side of the road", I wouldn't think the driver should stop. She should certainly be aware of them potentially crossing and thus be ready to stop if she needs to, but not go as far as preemptively stopping to encourage them to cross on an undesignated zone.

    If you want her to learn something of the experience, maybe mention two hazards to be aware of if she did stop? This may encourage said drunk people to cross without checking both sides of the road, and this may surprise an inattentive driver behind her who may not fail to break in time after exiting the roundabout.

  • adzyau on 07/02/2022 - 10:10
    -1

    is there any dash cam footage?

  • Mysterious on 07/02/2022 - 10:47
    +1

    I failed for something similar in my first test. Just as I left the VicRoads, I was turning left but I had to give way to the main road, but the driver stopped and kept motioning for me to go first, we went back and forth for about 15-20 seconds with hand gestures and I gave in and turned. The assessor told me I failed on the spot. Took me a while to accept it.

    • MorriJ on 07/02/2022 - 13:54

      Much like the driver in OP. Good intentions and all, but creating a road hazard all the same. When you started the turn, if they then ploughed into you; you are at fault for failing to give way. These activities just create hazards sadly, hopefully the OP's daughter learns a lesson that on the road you need to keep to the rules so everyone is provided a predictable environment.

    • BobLim on 07/02/2022 - 20:20
      +1

      It'd be nice if the tester could report the other driver for stopping illegally/obstructing traffic too. It's only fair

  • TailsK on 07/02/2022 - 11:16

    I'm curious as to what you're trying to actually achieve? You've said:

    I think she should forget it and move on, and she does not want to complain and get a "black mark" on her Vicroads records for fear of future discrimation.

    If you both agree you want to move on and not complain, what's the problem? Just take the feedback onboard and take the test again.

  • wiipantz on 07/02/2022 - 11:23

    After the Pandemic? Can you be speific with the time here, when did that occur. Also was it by chance school holidays?

  • lint on 07/02/2022 - 12:41

    Just get your daughter to do the test again.

  • Dack Smith on 07/02/2022 - 12:52

    Move to another state.

    Dan the dictator and Melbourne the heroin capital of Australia makes their laws the very worst and nonsensical.

    Not sure why people are determined to stay in that hole full of Covid

    Dack Smith on 07/02/2022 - 12:52 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • jaimex2 on 07/02/2022 - 12:53

    Testers receive the feedback that they are allowing too many bad drivers to pass. It's good that they are going by the book instead of showing leniency.

    It sucks it happened, it's just one of those things.

  • BigTone on 07/02/2022 - 13:13

    Just have to cop it

    I remember a mate of mine failed after the instructor used his brake pedals (he was using those dual control learning cars) after a car came flying through a roundabout, even though my mate was also using the brake, since the instructor 'had to intervene' it was an automatic fail

  • MikeKulls on 07/02/2022 - 13:34

    I had a friend failed 4 times on small issues. I have a suspicion they just do that when they don't feel confident in the person's ability but there isn't anything they specifically done wrong. Answer is more practice

  • squall3031 on 07/02/2022 - 14:52

    Well in my case, the examiner failed me for not giving the pedestrians a chance to cross the street when they were literally standing on a roundabout, waiting for me to drive first, and accusing me for not paying attention. It was the most bullshit thing I've ever heard because they were clearly waiting for me to go first. I was so close to finishing the test too, like a couple of hundreds metres away from Vicroads Brunswick. Was I supposed to stop right in the middle of roundabout to let them cross the road? It was so stupid.

    Sometimes I kept thinking to myself that they must have hired some people to be there and to fail me on purpose. After all, it's pretty easy to spot a car doing a test when it's close to Vicroads.

  • kaleidoscope on 07/02/2022 - 16:24
    +1

    Just out of curiosity if that had been a dog or cat on loose, should you keep driving as well…

    • OzzyOzbourne on 08/02/2022 - 17:31

      Absolutely not…apparently you should only keep driving if it's kids on the side of the road as they should know better that cars have right of way and one should assume that kids never make a mistake…so better to be sorry than safe.

  • DiscoJango on 07/02/2022 - 20:49

    Little bit of easy revenue raising there

    Oh, she has to do the test again, poor thing, thats another $200 thanks :)

  • wtfnodeal on 07/02/2022 - 23:21

    Sorry to hear it. Too bad that there is no crystal ball to see if had your daughter not stopped she would had run over the drunk pedestrians. It is a situation that you do something to prevent sh!t from happening but because it doesn’t happen you are told being too cautious and if sh!t happens and you don’t prevent it you are told being too careless.

  • GodsSon23 on 07/02/2022 - 23:35

    The examiner AND instructor should be shot.

    • jv on 08/02/2022 - 01:13
      +1

      Both were double vaccinated.

  • fullmetal on 08/02/2022 - 00:53

    She should have horn.

  • deneb on 08/02/2022 - 00:58

    I reckon what she should do is load up that myki and protest vicroad for the rest of her life.

    Lets be real here, you have no choice…and without any dashcam evidence, I tend to believe the words of an experienced examiner than the "facts" of a shocked and disappointed teenager. if her cautious slow down was driving 5km the whole road, then she 100% deserved to be failed.

    Your test is like 60bucks. and majority probably went to old mate for his hour of wage. I can't relate to any revenue raising tin foil theories.

    • random12 on 08/02/2022 - 07:38

      Good way to think about it.

      A failed driving test is like another driving lesson. It doesn't cost that much, and someone is getting paid for their time.

  • jv on 08/02/2022 - 01:09
    +3

    The examiner AND instructor are sticking to their story: that the said "school crossing" was not officialy a crossing unless there are RED FLAGS erected on the poles next to the road.

    They are correct.

    • The incident happened at an UNFLAGGED school crossing
    • The time was approximately 2.40pm (within school times of 2.30-4.00pm)

    That only impacts the speed you can drive there.

  • Tomhaigh1 on 08/02/2022 - 01:37

    I am also about to give driving test :D, is honking right thing to do in this scenario? I don't want to run over people at the same time I don't want to fail the test.

  • neosin on 08/02/2022 - 09:00
    -3

    I would’ve passed her on the spot for adapting to changing road conditions!

    Lives are more important than stupid road rules!

    If she was doing 100 on a highway and then slammed on the brakes then that would be a different story!

  • GrueHunter on 08/02/2022 - 09:14
    +1

    Overly Cautious

    The first word

    Pedestrians on The Road!

    They weren't

    • MorriJ on 09/02/2022 - 21:42

      Yeah they were, the OP daughter stopped and lured them onto the road against the flow of traffic to be potentially run down by other cars from what I understand.

  • Krankite on 08/02/2022 - 09:45
    +2

    I'll add my 2cents, I'm going to back the judgement of the assessor and instructor on this one and say she failed because she stopped unnecessarily. Is it harsh to fail on a judgement call that wouldn't come up in 95% of driving test's sure. However the fact is she made an incorrect judgement call so wasn't deemed safe to drive without someone else in the car to help. The reason for the logbook hours isn't to practice driving between the lines it's so that they will encounter as many of these judgement calls as possible with an experienced set of eyes with them to help them decide whether the best choice is to stop or to proceed with caution, in this instance there was two experienced driver's who felt the best option was proceed with caution but she opted to stop.

  • BarginGrabber on 08/02/2022 - 10:25

    Yeah, it really sucks and your daughter probably did the right thing but not the technically right thing.

    I remember once I failed my 1st test because I was cautious with changing lanes (didn't cause any driver to slow down), so the instructor made me go to the busiest part of town after that then went to VicRoads just to tell me there that I failed due to the changing lanes part (even though I aced everything else).

    The following test, I got a different examiner and tbh did a lot worse overall, but passed. So, yeah it comes to luck and not having an examiner that has a stick up their ass

  • wannagrababargain on 08/02/2022 - 11:36
    +2

    Yes she should fail. Don't change the rules. It annoys me when I am on foot or bicycle and cars stop randomly and unexpectedly for me at non crossings. It breaks my concentration as I was waiting to cross the road, giving way to cars and expecting them to follow the rules. When people start making up rules as they go then everyone gets confused and then accidents happen.

    Advice is to just re-take the test after taking some time to become more confident on the road. My speculation is the examiner could sense an overall lack of confidence and was looking for something to fail on.

  • gromit on 08/02/2022 - 12:46
    +1

    Possibly harsh treatment, but not completely undeserved. Stopping encourages the kids to run across the road, the next car or a car in another lane that decides to obey the road rules may then clean them up and you are teaching the kids really really dangerous practice's. She is creating a road hazard not just for other drivers but for the children as well.

  • dji1111111 on 08/02/2022 - 15:41
    +1

    I can't stand people who randomly stop to give way when they have right of way. I sometimes get indicated by people to pull put or make a turn by other motorists. I understand they think they are doing me a favour but they are not. If I pull out based on them waving me through and something happens, I'll still be liable for any accident. I've had cars in front of me randomly stop to let a pedestrian cross or to give way to other cars and it's extremely dangerous as nobody is expecting it

  • Tekon on 08/02/2022 - 17:33
    -1

    Vicroads examiners can be very inconsistent with how they apply rules. In desperation to get a booking early I decided to book it 2 hours away in Bendigo. During my test (I was also using an instructors vehicle) I turned off a major road (70kmh) into an arterial road and about 10m into the arterial road there was a simple traffic island in the middle of the road with pedestrians standing on it in the designated gap. The pedestrians were in no way seeming to cross and were waiting patiently as a vehicle passed them in front of me and I passed them as well. There were 3 other vehicles going about 50kmh behind me.

    I was pulled over and told that I had failed the driving test for not giving way to the pedestrians. This was not a zebra crossing, no one was on the road and they were patiently waiting for the cars to go past as it was their responsibility to wait. My instructor tried his best to argue my case but the examiner would not have it. It was a very sad 2 hour drive back home.

    I took screenshots of the area and street view images from google maps and took it to my local Vicroads a week later to gain clarification as much for my own learning as to relieve some frustration at that Bendigo lady. I was informed quite clearly by the Vicroads person that I do not have to give way to pedestrians patiently waiting on a crossing island and in fact if I was to stop I'd be causing vehicles behind me to take evasive action and thus fail. He was very shocked to hear I failed over it. The only reason why I would need to stop in that case is if they had stepped onto the road and were seemingly about to cross.

    I passed my driving test at my local vicroads the week after without even a minor error.

    • BobLim on 09/02/2022 - 13:48
      +1

      a vehicle passed them in front of me

      They should've stopped. Dangerous and rude.

      There were 3 other vehicles going about 50kmh behind me

      You all took the corner at 50km/h, and four cars fit within a 10m space? If you mean they were continuing on the major road, this is not your concern. Even if so, 10m of space around the corner is plenty of room to turn and stop

      they were patiently waiting for the cars to go past as it was their responsibility to wait

      Incorrect. Vehicles turning into the road must give way to pedestrians crossing the one they're entering near the intersection, unless it's a roundabout. This is why you failed.

      For vehicles travelling the other direction (straight along the arterial towards the major), they aren't turning before the pedestrian conflict (like a normal "mid block" road crossing), and therefore the pedestrians give way to those vehicles.

      I was informed quite clearly by the Vicroads person that I do not have to give way to pedestrians patiently waiting on a crossing island

      This is why they work in the office rather than as a licence tester. Technically you don't really have to give way to someone remaining stationary anywhere, but on my test I would be waiting and refusing to move until they cross.

      I'd be causing vehicles behind me to take evasive action

      Not your problem. Vehicles following must leave a safe gap, and should assume anyone making a turn will come to a stop if there's a pedestrian crossing the road they're intending to enter

  • Manny Calavera on 08/02/2022 - 17:39
    +2

    P platers have notoriously poor judgment. That extends to learners who also don't know any better.

    • gromit on 10/02/2022 - 11:52

      I think with learners it tends to be over caution (kinda understandable), with P platers it tends to be massive overconfidence in their abilities and lack of experience of how quickly things can go wrong.

  • tottenham_hs on 08/02/2022 - 18:04

    Passing a driving test is an art into itself and to be honest driving that way all the time is more dangerous than using common sense and reacting to real world variables like the one you described. Just know that going in and you will feel much better about it.

  • Eeples on 08/02/2022 - 19:21

    Are you allowed to take a driving test in your own car with the dashcam connected?

  • Hank Scorpion on 08/02/2022 - 23:02

    It may seem harsh but I think the fail is fair, she essentially stopped to allow some people who were not on or entering the road to cross the road. Put it down in the life lessons category and move on.

  • mattgt on 08/02/2022 - 23:06
    +3

    https://youtu.be/c7pOGt8Rk90?t=1148
    I just saw this in the latest Dash Cam Australia submissions. Highlights perfectly why it was correct to fail the test.

    Don't be polite, be predictable.

    • stumo on 09/02/2022 - 11:13
      +1

      I saw that too yesterday. But this OP case is 100x worse than that, because there are 2 lanes in that direction.

      Oldmates daughter stopped in the middle lane. How many times have you seen an accident on dashcams AU where a car is driving past a car randomly stopped in the other lane, only to t-bone a vehicle* crossing their path out of nowhere.

      *Note that dashcams won't show that happening to a pedestrian for obvious reasons.

      • random12 on 10/02/2022 - 11:28

        "*Note that dashcams won't show that happening to a pedestrian for obvious reasons." - hide the crimes…..

  • Ordinance on 09/02/2022 - 08:43

    My driving instructor once told me "self preservation is the strongest instinct". Never stop or slow down for pedestrians who look like they're waiting to cross at a non-designated junction, unless they are small children or literally running onto the middle of the road - the self preservation instinct will take care of the rest.

    • sardines on 09/02/2022 - 15:03

      I know too many people at work who just walk on roads with earpods without looking expecting traffic to stop to discount that theory :)

  • lookalive on 09/02/2022 - 12:52

    I failed my first test as well. I had to exit the centre with a lot of traffic, I waited patiently for all cars to clear, there was only 1 truck left for me to wait, and because I waited too long, I failed the test. I was only trying to be safe.

  • Esky85 on 09/02/2022 - 17:27

    Speaking from an instructor and assessor's point of view (albeit in aircraft licencing but the process is the same thing), the purpose of assessments is for the candidate to demonstrate the underpinning theory and practical application of a skill.

    So the assessor had two questions to answer on the driver's test before they tick that box as satisfactory:
    1. Did the candidate understand the theory of how a children's crossing works?
    2. Did they demonstrate appropriate practical skills to reinforce point 1?

    The assessor rightfully answered NO to both of these questions when your daughter stops at an inactive crossing when there wasn't an obstruction. This is based on your comment that only after your daughter stops do the pedestrians actually enter the road. An appropriate response would have been to be prepared to stop IF they enter the road, not stop SO they can enter the road.

    One more thing, there are parts of a driving test that are not considered safety critical which mean you can get less than 100% but children's crossings are safety critical. When the assessor answered NO to one of the above questions, they rightfully stopped the assessment. These safety critical aspects aspects of any assessment are marked differently on the form and shown to candidates so they understand the requirements.

    edit: What should they do? When anyone falls short on any assessment it's an opportunity to brush up on the skills and knowledge they had troubles with in the previous attempt. That's why they don't use the word "Fail", they used the phrase "Not Yet Satisfactory". Get the rule book out, watch some dash cam footage and debate if people took appropriate action. If you don't know the answer ask the instructor for their opinion. That's what they are there for.

    • Esky85 on 10/02/2022 - 11:09

      When I read your post again, I don't think you understand the part about why it's dangerous to stop in the middle of the street. The only hazard that actually existed at any part of the story was when she stopped. Everything else up to that part was still, lets say, a "potential" hazard. Up until that point, there was nothing obstructing the road, and therefore no need to come to a complete stop. I don't necessarily agree with others in these replies that she should not take any action. The right thing to do was be prepared to stop if needed. The judgement part comes in here where she can decide on a range of options including keeping more of an eye on them, coasting, shift down a gear, brake or whatever but stopping wasn't an appropriate response. It's lucky the car next to her also stopped because those pedestrians may have not been seen and mowed down for no reason.

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