A friend or mine is wanting to quit teaching as her current class is horrible. Do any of you guys have ideas for other careers she could look at with the experience she has? Her pay is around 90 something and she recently got a much larger mortgage so it would be ideal if the pay wasn't less than 80 something. If it was less, then it would need a path to get higher within a year or two, not a dead end job. I have been browsing apsjobs.gov.au and have just seen administrative type jobs. But surely there is something else out there for her. Or are any of you ex-teachers and successfully transitioned out to a different but good career?
Job Ideas for Former Teacher?
Quantumcat on 08/02/2022 - 08:53
Last edited 08/02/2022 - 08:55
Last edited 08/02/2022 - 08:55
Comments
Hard agree. Even high socioeconomic has its difficulties.
I started teaching in Logan. I thought that it would be better when I got to a better school….They're all basically the same.
I remember being in classes in high school where my teacher actually lost their shit because of how bad some people in the class were behaving lol. One time one of the kids in class threw one of those pop pop things at the board which made a cracking sound, the teacher turned around and screamed “I could have lost an eye!!!” and was basically on the verge of tears. It’s pretty sad how some of the class treated that guy.
You will definitely experience people you hate in corporate but I don’t know if it would be anywhere near as bad as teaching a class full of annoying teenagers. That sounds like a nightmare even compared to the worst I’ve experienced in corporate.
You don't need to deal with the same client for all day and 10 months of the year. Plus you don't have to deal with 25 of them at the same time in the same room with different needs
Is it a public school?
None of the private schools I have lectured at would tolerate that. I now refuse to lecture at all except for a couple of public schools because so many of them have been terrible places that seemingly encourage being a victim, cry-bullying and not taking responsibility for ones own actions. I’ve even had a public school teacher try to push blatant propaganda whilst I’ve been lecturing and when I mentioned it to her superior the response was that they don’t interfere with what a teacher teaches.
Is it a primary school or high school? Perhaps try casual teaching at the other?
Seeing your comments about the classroom environment though, it sounds like it's just not a very good school to be teaching at - if the higher ups aren't supportive of the teachers, it's not going to be a healthy workplace.
Primary, not sure if she would be qualified for relief at high school but I'll ask her if she's considered it as that could be a good solution. Bad teens would be harder to control than bad young kids but you don't normally learn much if anything with a relief teacher in high school so less pressure I guess. And you can ignore the bad ones and they should be old enough not to hurt themselves without supervision and give attention to the good ones
Yeah I'm not entirely sure what the requirements are for teaching at primary vs secondary.
I do think secondary relief would be easier - my friends have generally not even needed to teach, but just supervise. The absent teacher would have left work and the older kids would hopefully be able to independently do it vs younger kids needing more interaction. Also you'd only deal with those particular kids for a period or two instead of the whole day like in primary!
I can confirm that if in NSW, a primary education trained teacher can sub and get temp blocks in high school.
Don’t expect high school to be better though, as it all depends on the school and the class.
Gonna be hard to find another job that Pays $90k+ and gives about 12 weeks a year holidays
That's true, she knows she'll be taking a pay cut
The new job will have less pay, but more work. Should even out.
A lot of times, more work is well worth it when you have violent kids daily, they can be unpredictable. And unfortunately What that Freedom Writers movie shows isn't gonna work.
@Ocker Not teaching either - no 12 week holidays there. Time to wake up hey.
Teachers rarely get 12 weeks off, that time is usually spend lesson planning, marking tests etc. Might be easier in primary school but it still wouldn’t be 12 entire weeks off.
Depending where OP’s friend lives it could be easy earning $90k. For example I’d say earning $90k is pretty easy in Sydney.
I’d say earning $90k is pretty easy in Sydney.
Kings Cross ?
I totally never buy the arguments from teachers about the a) lesson planning, and b) marking
Earning $90k might be easy as you say, but so is working 50hrs a week. I'd challenge you to find many professional workers who work only 38hrs per week. So what, you work 10hrs per day? Big whoop
And ok yeah sure you probably have to do some work during the school holidays, but unless you're doing 8weeks of lesson planning, you're still getting a lot more annual leave than i am. I never hear a lot of complaints from my teacher friends during school holidays, is all i'm saying, probably because they're always jetting off overseas, or at the beach everyday, or generally enjoying their oodles of time off. When you only get 4wks off per year, it tends to be precious like gold and you pack jobs and holidays into it, inevitably end up feeling like you're wasting it, and never really feel like you haven't had a proper break. With 12wks, you could take your time with your work, still relax, still holiday, etc
in your opinion, why do so many teachers quit if the conditions are so good?
Why do professionals who become teachers later in life usually go back to their old jobs after spending 2 years at uni studying to be a teacher?
….maybe there is truth to what all the teachers say??
@StalkingIbis: When we discuss it (as I said, I have friends who are teachers, maybe 10 of them. My mother was also a teacher) it's more to do with admin nonsense, bad students and no support, and terrible parents
My friends have never worked a non-teacher jobs so I don't think they actually realise how good they have it. Easy to complain about working 10hr days when you don't realise everyone else does it too
But I have literally never met or heard of a single person becoming a teacher and then changing BACK to their professional job. Plenty have gone the other way
I recently found out from a friend that's a teacher that they actually salary sacrifice throughout the year to pay for the "extra time off" so it's not even free annual leave, you're just paying for it earlier…
What?
Seems I'm unable to put together a sentence correctly
A public school teacher I know does a salary sacrifice to purchase addition leave in advance, to use that leave of 12 weeks throughout the year.
They buy the leave, not just free 12 weeks paid annual leave.
Joking or serious?
Why the F would anyone take up teaching and expect kids to be nice or cannot handle bad kids.
In fact wherever you go there are challenging people to deal with she can forget about hospitality or retail then.
People tend to go into it because they like kids and want to make a difference. I very highly doubt that they expect all the kids to be absolute angels. What they don't expect is being abused and threatened by kids with no consequence.
This is why half of my HS teaching degree cohort dropped out after year 1, and by the time year 4 rolled around, only 20/120 remained.
When was the last time someone worked at a Cafe or retail and had to deal with the same 25 customers at the same time for all day every day for an entire year?
What does having the same customers matter? Bad customers are bad customers, they do not have to be the same people. I'd argue that having the same 25 customers makes it easier to manage as you'd have learnt what pushes their buttons vs random bad customers all the time. It's not like you can tell any of the customers to f off anyway, who they are doesn't matter.
What's the chance of someone working in hospitality coming across bad customers every single day and having to deal with them for extended hours (6 hours +)
@lunartemis: And what's the chance of every student being bad?
Retail deals with customers all day long, there are good and bad. Just like students. You made it seem like all 25 kids are nasty all day long.@tikei: You clearly have never dealt with a classroom full of students with behaviour issues (as a teacher). Even having 1 or 2 bad students can influence the entire classroom and make you regret going into the class
Do you know a big difference is. In hospitality and retail, you serve them once and then youre done. In education, you have 30 kids who hate you, dont want to hear a single thing you say, and you need to see the same ones day in day out and your performance is based on how well these kids, who dont want to be there, do on their exams.
If they’re considering leaving the profession surely it’s a bit more than not liking the current class. It’s only been a week! Yes kids can be shits but also they usually settle with time.
Based on what you have said above, it sounds like the school/cohort is either just really crap, or she’s not good at discipline.
You definitely need support from your school if you have a difficult class, and if you don’t feel like you’re getting it, then leaving to go elsewhere is an option… but primary school kids throwing chairs etc.? Needs better discipline with both kids and parents.
Agreed. Unless she already wanted to move away from teaching and/or there are other factors at play here, the most sensible thing to do (in my opinion) would be to try and tough it out a bit longer and see if she can't improve the classroom behaviour somehow, considering the school year has only just started. Surely there are plenty of teachers handling classes like this in certain schools, must be forums somewhere online? Even her immediate colleagues should be able to offer some advice.
But if she is done with teaching, I guess she'd have to brainstorm what her transferable skills are - what did she teach, and for how long?
Surely trying to find a private school would be a better option then going for a complete job change?
Kids would still be misbehaving in their classroom but you can bet your bottom dollar if they were to be violent or overly disrespectful in anyway they would be dealt with better then the public system.
Theres no consequences to your actions in the public system anymore, you can punch a teacher and come back a week later and do it again with a slap on the wrist as punishment.
Private schools give those kids the ol heave ho.Go private?
Private would probably work but she isn't keen on religion - and all the private schools seem to be Catholic
and trying to pass legislation to give the boot to any employees who arent catholic
I think you’re mixing them up. There’s three main categories, public, catholic and independent/private. Catholics are usually significantly cheaper than independents, though there are exceptions (eg Joeys)
There are a lot of Anglican independent schools but there are also a lot of non denominational ones too if religion is something she’s that uncomfortable with.
I hear pay isn’t any better for teachers for teachers in the catholic and private systems, but standard of behaviour is generally better as troublemakers can be kicked out into their closest public school.
How about grammar schools?
A move into learning and development/facilitation type roles could be on the cards but your friend will struggle to maintain salary imo. Esp a lot of folk I’ve come across in learning departments get there via internal moves rather than needing to hire externally.
Feel for them. I was a teacher for 1 year in regional Victoria but decided it wasn’t for me mid way thru, good times but just not for me.
Get your friend to join the Teachers Thread over on Whirlpool.
Many, many of us have done similar and can give advice.But fair warning - if they're in the ACT, the pay is pretty good compared to other states and roles
Thanks I'll find it and send her the link!
I'm an ex teacher and have been working in admin and project officer roles in TAFE and Department of Education since. Check out non teaching roles here 😍
Thank you!
If her only concern is her current class, speak with Principal class to have the issue remedied. If she is a valuable resource to the school they will assist her in correcting this issue. Look as changing schools - Teaching is a career and shouldn't just be thrown away due to one bad class.
I dont think schools value teachers
Traffic Controllers are well paid.
Garbage collectors and forklift operators too.
Although this is a none too often spoken about glass ceiling for women.
Look at Education/Instructional/Online Educational design- your friend could likely pivot into this area with their current qualifications, a junior or entry level designer is usually on around 85-95k, with senior/experienced designers on over 100k. Would suggest looking at Tafe's/RTO's first, then universities down the road for more senior teaching and learning/design roles. Can be a real varied role, some more tech focused, others more learning design/theory focused, either way a capable and adaptable teacher is a good fit.
Oooh that sounds good!
i would have said nursing but it might not meet the pay requirements for a while…
quite a few teachers including myself move that way, a lot of good ideas above however, where were they 15 years ago?!given her problem change school, from my experience, prestigious schools were the worst ones to work with and i much preferred the "naughty kids", also stay clear from 14 year olds (they should just be locked in a cage).
with covid a lot of kids havent had real structure or discipline (dare i say that word) for over a year so, i can imagine everyone being a bit horrible going back to class,it might just be temporary
University lecturer.
You typically need a PhD for this, a publication track record, it is extremely competitive, and universities are in financial trouble at the moment and not hiring much. It is not an option for the OP's friend
no time like 20 years ago to get a PhD, wouldn't do it today.
A lot of montisorri places only hire those with education degrees or have a ratio of education vs cert 3.
As activities need to be planned and such, someone who has a 4 week express child care certificate isn't the best at that.
I think your friend will be disappointed working more than 25 hours per week, 40 weeks a year in the real world.
I'd be searching for a better class and living the dream
4 people don't think teachers are under an award with the above conditions.
Perhaps they could learn to dyor
Get into the corporate side of education, plenty of roles going for that.
I would just be looking to switch to primary (if she is doing secondary currently) or even look at a uni/Tafe teaching position. Could start out as an assistant or marker and then move up….?
So a supposed educated individual, who has no idea.
Why are you seeking ideas… where is this educated teacher?
Their talents are sought in other areas that various companies seek. The individual is a communicator. An instructor. I programme creator, etc. Think outside the box.
Go into Primary Teaching. Go into Pre-School. Go into nursing. Become a doctor, become an astronaut.
Institutionalised as they have never really left school, just transitioned into a different role in the hierarchy.
9-3, 12 weeks holiday, 90K
I am interested what jobs even come close.Must be a dream! Go for it! All the ones who spent 4 years at uni and then quit and never returned must be brain damaged.
Have employed over thirty teachers and most said they loved the kids and couldn't stand the other teachers and petty school culture developed around those teachers. After you have seen thousands of schools you will begin to see some similarities that you don't if you have stayed in the education process from student - graduate - teacher.
Just because someone did a degree does not mean they are entitled a job in that field. It is no one else's problem if the world sees no value in your study choices. I have employed Phd's who were driving a cab and another living in their mum's basement at 40+ having never driven a car.
The Uni system is driven by Government funding and demand.
Now having witnessed the TAFE system and the waste and old teachers resisting change I despair for the kids and the country they will inherit.
if she is hot and morally loose i hear fans only pays well
Depending on her skills and interests, Insurance might be a good, and very random, career.
I did all 4 years of a teaching degree, and after failing the final placement, I said a firm "thank you but no". Graduated with a BA, and after a lot of twists and turns, ended up as a Commercial Insurance Broker. The major skills are understanding legal documents and customer service. Everyone uses excel for the maths stuff.
Starting salary is $55K-$60K and you work up from there :)
That's quite interesting
I think so too :)
Also, 80% of us doing this say Insurance was never in their vision for the future :P So, we get all sorts and we've all enjoyed the ride.
Can also recommend Insurance as a good catch-all industry.
Broker or Underwriter could both work well. Larger organisations have opportunities on the operations and/or tech sides of things.
Only people that said Insurance was on their roadmap were people from the UK or people who had parents/family in the industry. Most are from all walks of life.
Some places still have the ol' boys club atmosphere further up the hierarchy, but increasingly that is changing as those who entered the higher positions in the late 80s/early 90s are finishing up.
Totally understand where she is coming from. She can get a Cert IV in TAE if she has some other skill that could be used to teach in TAFE etc. Failing that government jobs as they often needs trainers/material designers but she'll get a general desk job based on her teaching degree/experience etc and then can transition into other positions.
Shearing sheep.
She could abandon sheep from her current teaching position, escape those baaaaaad students, ewes her teaching background to educate those sheep on giving up their beautiful fleece!
More women taking it up.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-11-27/more-women-trai…
Could work 4-6 months of the year to cover her mortgage and relax for the other 6-8 months forgetting about those terrible students throwing chairs (I used to be one of them, sorry teachers!).
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/gun-shearers-nudging-30…
Sorry for using news articles to ram the point home.
I work in social retail in the health and well-being space - I’m aligned with a brand who focus primarily on clean living. My specialty is gut health support, immunity, stress management and improved energy. It’s basically affiliate marketing meets MLM/network marketing, but without any requirement or pressure to do the team recruiting side of the business. None of the godawful cringeworthy parties in people’s front rooms. No stock holding in the garage or buying samples, no order taking or distribution or handling returns or refunds. It’s all centralised drop-ship from a secured website and domestic warehouse, using a referral code system that gets the new customer a discount off their first order, as well as allowing them to share it with others to give a discount and earn a reward (The HelloFresh model). 10% - 36% commission on sales at the higher levels, plus bonuses available based on monthly customer numbers and volumes, again, without ever recruiting a team. Fantastic plug-and play system with loads of training, mentoring and support. Consistent and disciplined work required though - it’s definitely not a get rich quick kind of thing - but if you’ve got a decent and relatively well engaged social media network you’re half-way there. Happy to give more info on request.
Look into joining a TAFE. Go into the education and teaching sections. You'll rise up pretty quick in the ranks since you have actual teaching experience. With no background in vocational trades, you'll still become management / administrator level much faster than an ex-trade/vocation practicitioner. It's where all these "educator types" go for a big pay day and tell others how to teach.
How about NESA roles?
Data analytics or programming? Can learn during her time at school and starting salaries are pretty good.
Walter White was pretty frustrated with teaching and started his own small business and turned into an empire
My friends friend asked me to post on ozbargain on their behalf, because that’s how I roll
Anyway, their advice to your friend is: maybe your friend should have got a new job before the big mortgage.
She had a job when she got the mortgage
Surprised no one has said corporate trainer. Most of them seem to be former teachers. Sure you need some expertise in whatever you are teaching, but you go to a few train the trainer courses and you become the expert. You only need to know 1% more than the people you are teaching to look like an expert
Writing marketing and tender documents, for someone who is good at language and stuff
Public service, policy jobs and so forth. Obviously education department but most other departments as well (APS and state). May need to start lower down/take a pay cut
If she is in Canberra, contact the accounting firms and the bigger consultancies. They are screaming out for anyone who can breath, I'm sure they can find her a role. Even if its project management or something administrative, or she can start developing commercial/contracting expertise. Again, not sure if the pay will necessarily be higher but it might be.
Why she get a larger mortgage if she hates her job?
I don't have much advice here. I'm earning 90k in my profession and don't have any alternatives that will pay anything close to what I'm earning…
Can you please outline the amount of hours your friend works per week - Classroom and outside classroom.
BUMP!!!
here's my tip as an ex(now retired)-teacher
cut the BS paperwork and spend more time with/for/encouraging the kids to learn by doing their own work and helping each other - they're the real life skills useful for adult life
the difference between relaxed teachers and tear-your-hair-out stressed teachers are the relaxed ones cut the BS and give the students space to learn
that said, if you hate kids and don't enjoy interacting with them - oops !
I remember a new teacher - with top academic marks so he looked impressive on paper - the first day in class he was reduced to a quivering wreck as he had no confidence in front of a classroom full of younger students - within a month he had quit.
I lasted a couple of decades - mostly because I skipped the BS paperwork and focussed on the classroom experience and life skills
one young guy stopped coming to class and I didn't see him for 6 months, when he came to see me - wearing a big company logo shirt and carrying a ruggedised iPad - he told me he had a good job as a roving technician fixing computer systems at McDonald's - and he told me 'sir, I wasn't a good student and didn't pay attention in class - but when I got a job, my supervisor was nasty, he lost his job in 2 weeks, and I just said what you'd taught me in class, and got his supervisor job ! And what you used to talk about in class, I use every day and it's totally useful - so thank you very much !'
That's what I liked to hear - happy students got good jobs they are happy with !
In my experience students work and learn best when guided (by their teacher) not left to their own random googling either by themselves or with their friends.
For example students watching a YouTube video on solving equations in maths vs a teacher tailoring examples based on an understanding of students ability and checking students understanding through questioning as the equation is solved.
Why do a job “your friend” hates?
So what if there’s a pay cut?
Do you want to be unhappy for the rest of your life?
It’s obvious the $90,000 wad of cash in hundred dollar notes aren’t enough to make you like the job.
Escort? Could potentially pay a lot more than 90k
even better onlyfans.
work/life balance galore
Your friend needs find an area they have a true interest in that pays the money they want, requalify, do the hard yards on not so great money with a long term plan. Unfortunately teachers are qualified to teach but many of these skills do not translate to high paying real-life jobs, E.g. your school IT teacher could not walk into a $150k IT job without further training and years of industry experience.
Lots of ex-Teachers on OnlyFans :P
Have plenty of friends from uni who are currently teachers.
Also know even more friends from uni who dropped out of teaching before/on the job.
- The profession simply does not have the respect, support nor pay it deserves in general.
- It is gut-wrenching reading some of the comments made here emphasising it is "easy" and the "holiday benefit".
- My teacher friends are tired all year round doing endless paperwork just to tick the box. Useful hours that should be used on their classwork instead.
- Student discipline will not get better each year, period. Two words: CONSEQUENCES and Scapegoat e.g Johnny kicks Timmy: Teacher asks Johnny to apologise. Johnny kicks the teacher. The parents "Why are you not watching(paying more attention) to my kid!?". Principal/Headteacher "Have you tried X/Y/Z interventions in this scenario?" Rinse and repeat.
- Teachers are the most complacent and morally aware bunch of society. It is unthinkable to suggest modern parenting or the system is failing the "troubled child". I guess, there has to be someone to be blamed out of the trio.
- The liability that comes with the duty of care. e.g. Teacher has to document every significant disciplinary matter and have evidence/witness available in hindsight of the incident being used against the teacher. Enough horror stories I heard over our catch-up.
- Teacher salary base increase is always a struggle. The union has to constantly fight for the base 2.5% increase, only when threatened with industrial action then the base increase gets backdated. It is also now "illegal" to put on industrial action as teachers. I respect all the public servants, but the government would not think twice to give the base 2.5% increase to police officers and council workers. Let alone a 30% increase for pollies in a year.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-10/chart-of-the-day-mp-p…
- My teacher friends were surprised when I linked the traditional school hour overhaul news. The teachers are always the last to be told of what happens to them in school. COVID HBL 2021?
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/what…
- By large, my teacher friends are very positive and able individuals who love to teach. However, few of them have contemplated switching careers in the next 5 years, their reasons to change are not actually from teaching, fancy that!
- Teacher shortage will be a real concern in the near future. If no suitable local teachers can be recruited, then the government will be forced to source teachers from overseas.
To the O.P, I sympathise with your friend, however, life is too short to be wasted on a job you hate to go back everyday.
Also, perhaps get your friend to share her thoughts here might actually help her.
Kind regardsNah, if there's a shortage the salary offer will just become higher. As schools understand that parents wouldn't want overseas teachers unless for LOTE.
For $90k I think the struggles they face are fair. One can't expect to just do the 'fun' stuff (the teaching part) but not deal with the other admin crap. The discontent is probably from the difference in expectations (teaching classes/meaningful exciting work) vs reality.
Code: >salary offer will just become higher. As schools understand that parents wouldn't want overseas teachers unless for LOTE.
Sadly, Government is already moving schools towards a "business" model, capitalism in a global market, my friend.
Code: >For $90k I think the struggles they face are fair.
Please invite yourself or anyone you know to complete a double degree with a starting salary of $75k and be staggered of the burnout teacher statistics. I know I wouldn't.Sadly, Government is already moving schools towards a "business" model, capitalism in a global market, my friend.
Source? Schools knowing parents prefer local teachers and hiring them over overseas teachers is part of their branding, marketing and business strategy. This industry isn't quite the same as importing cheap Chinese products. The reputation and scores of students matter a lot. Unless the school is already bottom tier to begin with, it would be detrimental for them to go that route.
Please invite yourself or anyone you know to complete a double degree with a starting salary of $75k and be staggered of the burnout teacher statistics. I know I wouldn't
Quote from Monash website "And because a required subject in one course can count as an elective in the other, our double degrees take up to two years less than if you studied for the two degrees separately."
Teaching is a 4 year degree. I know plenty of other graduates with a starting salary of way less than $75k and need to put up with all sorts of crap from managers and clients.
@tikei: I can understand where you are coming from, parents shop for school based on various merits.
Schools know which "features" can attract their clientele, and put up their best facade. Extra-curricular, sports, bells and whistles.
- The reality, however, is not enough kids of today would pick teaching as their career. Why would they, when many other jobs are financially better off and are actually respected?
https://theconversation.com/teachers-are-leaving-the-profess…
https://tinyurl.com/2rzbbehf
https://education.nsw.gov.au/content/dam/main-education/en/h…
- From the NESA attrition report - Student-teacher graduate numbers have remained steady each year, however, over 10% of graduates were removed from the accreditation list within six years (discontinues from teaching).
- From the workforce supply demand report 2015 - The vast amount of boomer generations teachers are well and truly about to retire.
There are 1,168,321 NSW school students in 2014,
There are 1,241,232 NSW school students from 2020. About 6% student increase over six years.
- Teacher shortage is real. It is a systemic issue, can't change the tides without drastic measures from the very top down.Code:>branding, marketing and business strategy.
I agree about business strategy. Exhibit one - The business manager of a private school (Yes, they do exist) has found a way to cut school running costs by overloading each teacher with one additional class. Thus, by paying each teacher 20% more for "overload" hours, they effectively reduced the need to hire 20% more teachers. The money works in the school's favour since it's cheaper to fork out more hours than pay for another full-time. Plenty of other exhibits I have heard, in my unpopular opinion: schools are soon to be made to run like a corporate.
Now, to what effect does an overworked teacher has on their students?
Again, I stand by what I said about teachers deserving better, but nothing is getting better.@tikei: Given Australia is a migrant dependant country, I think having capable overseas teachers that can teach accordingly is desirable. It actually offers a diversity of discourse for my child which may not have obtain from anywhere else.
@ruthlesskid: Why would overseas teachers take the job if salary is bad? To attract quality applicants, there needs to be good remuneration. I still stand by the opinion that salary is dictated by supply and demand. When there is a real shortage, salary will eventually increase. Unless they are hiring teachers from poorer countries which will not sit well with the school's reputation.
Unfortunately govt and business only believe in supply pressures increasing the price of things in all markets EXCEPT the labor market.
Breaking Bad :)
I have some experience in classroom management. Give this site a look. Lots of evidenced based strategies.
There is no job as tiring or challenging as secondary teaching, in my experience. I've worked retail, construction, mining and landscaping - these are all a breeze compared to a low socioeconomic public high school.