How to Get Promoted Quickly?

Ldummyboy87 on 02/03/2022 - 20:54
Last edited 02/03/2022 - 20:56

I joined my company about 5yrs ago.
People around me are generally younger, but hold more senior positions than I do due to (1) me changing industry and (2) me being new to the company.
That didnt sit well with me, taking instructions from someone younger, and for the last 5yrs I have been working my a** off to try to catch up, experience/knowledge wise.
The culture of the company also meant that (1) no one supported my learning, I literally worked 15hrs day trying to join the dots and getting paid for 8hrs only and (2) people dont like sharing information unless they know they need something from you
Today, I am finding myself doing all the heavy lifting at work. I am pretty much running the team despite not being the head of my team.
I had to develop solutions to all the problems that came to us, and my manager wasnt impressed probably because it was obvious I was outperforming him
None of my proposals ever got rejected and they all ended up being presented as a team's idea. Fortunately no one from my team could ever provide details when questioned by senior management (despite all the knowledge sharing sessions, the knowledge gap is frankly very wide), so people higher up naturally knew it was my work when they had to come to me for answers.
I am also spending lots of time teaching the juniors about what we do and helping them connect the dots (something that people didnt think was important when I started)

Now my whinge:
I learned that one of my younger co-worker, who was free riding got a promotion because he had applied for a role externally and my company made a counteroffer.
For the last 5yrs, I was just hoping to be recognised and given my promotion. Last year, they let me down. Everyone knew I was the go to person and yet they just gave me a payrise but nothing else. This year I might / might not get the promotion that I am longing for, but again I feel like I am taken for granted because I always kept my head down and wanted to get things done - so that i can do and learn other stuff thats new.
I dont know why do companies only offer their employees a promotion / payrise, especially when they are about to leave? Are they actually setting the incentives wrong or am I doing something wrong? My previous company was the same - 20% counteroffer when I accepted my current role. Before my resignation, I was getting the standard 2-3% rise every year in line with other employees.

Whats going on?

Education & Work

Comments

  • Brucet on 03/03/2022 - 09:05
    +2

    My opinion. Why they get quick promotion because they are LICKERS.(other words call c……..ers).

  • Brucet on 03/03/2022 - 09:06

    Why not leave and get other workplaces.

  • John Kimble on 03/03/2022 - 09:09
    +9

    When you work head down, bum up management don't know who you are, they just see your ass.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 10:46
      +1

      HAHAHAHAHA
      thats very true, but
      if i keep my head up all the time, work doesnt get done

      • nobro25 on 03/03/2022 - 20:16

        Let your ass get the licking and lift your head up then you'll get promoted.

  • Qazxswec on 03/03/2022 - 09:14
    +12

    you didn't say anywhere in your post that you have asked for a promotion, promotions are giving to people who actively seek them, not people just working hard and thinking to themselves "geez i work hard, i hope they notice me", if you want a promotion, go out and get it, ask to have sit downs with the higher ups, declare your intentions, tell them your future career intentions within the company, show them that you want to be in a higher position

    • yamahamoto on 05/03/2022 - 10:05
      +2

      I have to agree with this post. Need to speak up. I was in the same position and I thought if you work hard you will get promotion. I did very well for 2 years got bigger bonus than most people even when the company had reduced budget during covid but no promotion. I spoke to higher up management and they were very good about it and said now that you tell us we will ensure your career will progress. At the time I didn’t believe a single thing they said but I was proven wrong. 2 promotions in 6 months becuase I showed them I could do the job. A few colleagues reached to congratulate and also expressed their surprises of my quick progression. Sum it up if you don’t speak up they will think you are happy with what you are doing.

  • Muzeeb on 03/03/2022 - 09:20
    +4

    So glad I don't work in an office and have to deal with this crap plus working with a bunch of entitled peanuts.

  • ZippyRoo on 03/03/2022 - 09:31
    +3

    This has already been posted multiple times, but I absolutely agree and can resonate that promotions almost never go to the most hardworking person. You need to make yourself seen and known. Don't expect your manager to know your career aspirations and fight for you. My personal experience in my last job - I wasn't getting promoted fast enough either even though I've verbally asked for it, so with my manager's permission and support, I jumped one level higher to the General Manager and did a Powerpoint presentation on why I should be promoted, along with some suggestions of roles they can create for me. I ended up getting the role I wanted, despite only having about 5% increase in the pay. A few months down the track, I eventually left the company and went to a new company which paid me almost double. Some quick tips:
    - Sell yourself, and do it with structure.
    - Don't be the one doing all the heavy-lifting. Get out of that hole immediately. It's so important to knowledge share and keep on handing over the work to the team. If you can do that well and proactively, then you've already mastered a great leadership skill. If you keep on holding everything to yourself, you will be inundated with work, and everything that goes bad will land on you.
    - If all else fails, don't be afraid to look for a new job. Build your network, cleanup your LinkedIn, keep your Resume up to date, it's amazing what that network can do for you in your career journey.
    Good luck.

  • prisonmike on 03/03/2022 - 09:38
    +2

    You have to act like a tool to get promoted. Working harder doesn’t get you anywhere unfortunately.

  • Stephen2 on 03/03/2022 - 09:47
    +2

    OP - you are offering yourself for exploitation. Do NOT work more than 8 hours, it is literally wasting your life.

    1) Tell boss you need a promotion
    2) Tell boss you need a pay rise

    If you don't get it, look for another job and move without hesitation

  • GG57 on 03/03/2022 - 10:00

    Is OP wanting a promotion or a pay rise? They aren't always the same thing, and a 'promotion' can require different skills for a different role.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 11:16

      yeah for my company, my next promo, when i get one, is worth ~50k, give or take

      • GG57 on 03/03/2022 - 11:16
        +1

        For the same skill set? Why would they pay you $50k more to do the same thing?

  • MessyG on 03/03/2022 - 10:26
    +2

    It is time to leave. Gather your references (who you know will give you a good rap), make a list of all the problems you solved so you can sell the crap out of yourself in an interview, and walk off into the sunset with a better offer at a higher pay grade. It's a myth that you need to be the hardest working problem solver. People who get promoted internally do a decent job, but make themselves friendly and easy to get along with (not saying you're not). We have all been where you are. It's time to get a nice headshot taken, buff up your LinkedIn and start building your 'brand' (sad but true). You don't need to be fake, in fact it's better to embrace your own quirks and individuality, let yourself be yourself, and start the process of looking around. It doesn't need to happen quickly (better slowly). Resentment is killing you at work and life is too short. Disinvest your ego from this organisation, it is one of the most powerful things you can do for yourself.

    You may find in many months from now, that you get a great offer, and you go back to your boss and tell them. Watch out for non-tangible promises (ie, "oh but in six months we were going to give you these opportunities" (more work), or "there is the potential for more money in one year" (not a chance)). Just keep walking. Unless you're offered better than any other offer you get, just leave. It's okay to change organisations if it's more money and a better role. But disinvest your ego, think about your long term plans for yourself and how to achieve them. It's not going to happen if you're doing such a good job in a role that they now want to keep you in.

  • Drakesy on 03/03/2022 - 10:26
    +6

    Loyalty
    is
    Dead

    The younger generation know this and bounce around to get pay rises (i did as it was the only way even though i loved my first job).
    Don't complain when someone gets an offer to move and as a result gets a pay rise.
    If you can't beat them join them, it's not your fault management takes that stance, businesses are profit driven after all.

  • kalithreaver on 03/03/2022 - 10:29
    +4

    typically ive found the only way for a good payrise or promotion is to find a new job.

  • Vote for Pedro on 03/03/2022 - 10:33
    -1

    Gargle

  • pe arl on 03/03/2022 - 10:39
    +1

    The irony is, you can try to move jobs and get a promotion that way, but the outspoken, confident, smooth-talking types that get a promotion over you also happen to be better at job interviews and can really sell themselves/talk pretty convincingly through even tricky questions.
    The quiet, hardworking, but reserved types might know their stuff well, and work really hard preparing and practising for the interview, but often don't shine at the interview stage and lose out.
    It's sad but it's the reality.

  • afah0447 on 03/03/2022 - 10:46
    +1

    Sounds like you work for one of the big four consultancies. Textbook situation.

    To your last paragraph. It's the job of firms to make money and keeping costs down is a factor in doing that. Once they realise how much it costs to seek out and bring a new hire onboard and be productive, it's cheaper to give the existing staff a payrise to keep them.

    It's a good market for workers. If you are half as good as you say you are look for work elsewhere where you are appreciated.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 10:50

      Already did - recruiters approaching with jobs that pay the same with less hours
      Again, I'm so used to the brain stimulation at my current role that i think i'd be dead if i went back to a regular corporate role
      I work in a bank now, and the stuff that i do is to mathematically quantify impact of changes in regulation, market, competitors, war etc.
      I just dont think i can go back to a normal corporate, doing month end reporting and preparing nice charts to convey numbers

      • bobbified on 03/03/2022 - 12:09

        recruiters approaching with jobs that pay the same with less hours

        I wouldn't be so sure about the "less hours" thing. Are you expecting the recruiters (or even the company) to be upfront/honest and tell you that you're going to be working longer hours than what's been specified? Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

        • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 13:06

          I know because thats my ex company lol
          we used to come in at 9am and log off at 5pm sharp
          but as i described above, i dont know if im suited for a 9 to 5 role anymore
          my dilemma is i love what i am doing right now because its mentally stimulating

          • bobbified on 03/03/2022 - 13:15

            @dummyboy87:

            we used to come in at 9am and log off at 5pm sharp

            You've said it yourself - the role you're in now is different to your previous 9-5 role, so they're not comparable.

  • FareEvader on 03/03/2022 - 11:06
    +5

    If you can't take directions from those younger than you, sounds like you have an attitude problem. You can learn something from anyone, don't let your ego tell you otherwise.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 11:12

      per above, i dont hate them and i can take directions from younger people
      i just felt awkward and it is a natural push for me to do better to get out of that position

  • Dreamcast on 03/03/2022 - 11:07
    +1

    People around me are generally younger, but hold more senior positions than I do.

    That didnt sit well with me, taking instructions from someone younger.

    I stopped reading after this.

    • Muzeeb on 03/03/2022 - 11:23
      +4

      Then you missed the best part.

  • newjerseydamo on 03/03/2022 - 11:24
    +7

    I see a few problems as to why you may not have been promoted:
    1) Your attitude - you come across as expecting a promotion for the work you're doing. Are you actually APPLYING for promotions? Or just expect it to be handed to you?
    2) With such a hard worker, your employer has absolutely zero incentive to promote you. Why would they when they have such a great worker at a cheaper rate?
    3) I'm guessing you may have had some negative interactions with your fellow employees based on your views of them.
    4) You seem to be placing a lot of blame on external factors. Have you tried some self-reflection to see what you're doing that's preventing you from being promoted?

  • wimphrel on 03/03/2022 - 11:43
    +2

    I was just hoping to be recognised and given my promotion.

    A lot of companies I worked for in the past won't promote you unless you actively ask, and demonstrate you meet all the criteria, and argue that you deserve one: Even then it's a ranking system across other applicants & whether the finance officers approves the budget for the department.

    One thing I'll say, and probably something that a lot of companies have messed up: It's tying pay-rises to promotions.
    A promotion may not be something you want -> Sometimes you get promoted into a completely different role that's not fun or has too much responsibility. I've been asked if I wanted to be a manager twice, and I've refused the roles -> the pay rise after tax is jack-all compared to all the responsibility I inherit, and the style of work doesn't interest me one bit.

    I'm lucky to have moved into a company that actively gives equity/bonuses to people who perform well in their current roles (a luxury my industry can afford). I was surprised last year when I got a huge equity allocation, and my boss told me he submitted me into a programme that awarded extra retainment-based equity for staff who show promise - judged by higher level peers. (I guess this is an anti-poaching mechanism, we don't pay the best in the industry :P).

    Bigger companies who have the budgets to be forward-thinking have cottoned on that they need to pro-actively hang onto hard workers who just want to stay where they are (referred to as "Rock-stars" in a popular reference - they do the day-to-day work really well and DON'T need heavy management investment). Unfortunately it sounds like your company is not one of them, and rely on staff threatening them with resignation letters as signals. As others have said - it may be worth looking into other companies & applying for them.

    There's no need to be loyal to your business - unless the upper management have demonstrated something that deserves your loyalty (i.e. do things that they don't need to do as a business -> such as give extra leave during COVID lockdown to mange your kids), which seems unlikely in your case

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 13:49

      very valid point
      i'd probably be happy earning more without a title promotion as my current pay definitely feels like i've taken a pay cut for the additional responsibilities, hours, and skills that i have to put in / take up

      • bobbified on 03/03/2022 - 16:24

        i'd probably be happy earning more without a title promotion as my current pay definitely feels like i've taken a pay cut

        I know you mentioned earlier that it's a niche role at a bank, but if you share the job title or give us an idea what it is and what level you're at, people here can probably tell you the market rate for the role. Because if your current salary is already above it, then it's probably not going to go up much higher if you remain in that role. That might help you work out whether you should stay or leave.

  • Excelsior on 03/03/2022 - 11:50
    +4

    Working hard =/= working smart and adding real value to the business. Naturally the most valuable employees are the ones who get recognised and rewarded. If you were the CEO would you rather promote someone who "works hard" but contributes nothing new to the business, or someone bright who's always looking to challenge the status quo and bringing fresh ideas on how to improve the business?

  • popsiee on 03/03/2022 - 12:45
    -1

    Best BrownNose wins .

  • CrowReally on 03/03/2022 - 12:58

    There's been dozens of books on "Management Styles for Introverts". Research them and buy one (or two). Practice the skills in it (specifically communication, how you engage with others, delegate work etc).

    If you demonstrate those abilities, you will have proven yourself to be suitable for a promotion. "I'm old enough and I have life experience and I work hard" won't get you across the line, no matter how you word it.

    • popsiee on 03/03/2022 - 13:03
      -2

      Make sure your kids network at some of the best private colleges is another Best BrownNose tactic .

  • nomoneynoproblems on 03/03/2022 - 13:07
    +1

    Hey OP I’m happy to give you my knee pads as I just got promoted at work myself.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 13:15

      does it work? i need to get one myself as i suspect we'll need it for the next promotion lol

  • Logical on 03/03/2022 - 13:18
    +2

    I am prepared to hire you with a 20% pay increase on what you are currently getting. Let me send the letter of offer to you today. You can then take that to the boss and say that you were headhunted and just got an offer.

    • jv on 03/03/2022 - 15:42

      Depends how good you are at poker…

  • the Unforgiven on 03/03/2022 - 15:22

    2 words - brown nosing

  • jv on 03/03/2022 - 15:41

    How to Get Promoted Quickly?

    Hi Monica…

    • Baysew on 03/03/2022 - 15:43
      -1

      How to Get Promoted Quickly?

      Be Bold

  • YOTG on 03/03/2022 - 17:39
    +2

    I'll leave with you with some food for thought on how might go about changing your current situation.
    I have kept it as general as I can to hopefully point you in the right direction from a manager and individual perspective.

    1) Be 100% clear about what want - If your goal is to be promoted to X position then you need to create a plan around acquiring the right skills/experience to do it. Make a list of your strengths are that meet the roles criteria (do you have any transferable skills from previous jobs) and then work out where are the opportunities to learn/grow to be job ready when the position comes up. Whats important here is you are clear on what you want so you can communicate this to the powers that be and get their endorsement/support to get you there.

    2) Be open and transparent about what you want - Once you are clear on step one this is where you want to get guidance/support from your line manager. If you want their role this can be a great opportunity to ask where you can help assist them. Manager can delegate the task to you and you get experience with certain facets of the role until you eventually learn the whole thing making you job ready next time a role comes up.

    3)Build your Personal Brand - As you start to take on more responsibilities I would expect your area on influence to increase which will naturally mean you get more brand awareness about who you are and what you can do. This is where someone mentioned accomplishments becomes super important and should ALWAYS be mentioned in your Resume and interview discussions.

    4) Get a professional Mentor - This one may not be possible if the team your work in is too small or those that can have a lot on their plate. However if the sector you work in is large enough you can ask someone at the same level as your boss to coach/mentor you to achieve this goal. Having someone who can give you insights into the role and honest feedback is super important as I have found in my own career some people are not always clear and transparent with feedback.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 20:16

      Thanks - well im having a discussion with my boss's boss next week and maybe i will just say what i really think.
      Have to admit that, throughout my career of ~12yrs, i have always just focused on learning and wanting to do my best at work

      I never bothered selling myself - one thing i noticed is during performance review some people tend to talk about small stuff and make them big
      For me i have nothing much to talk about because a code in my brain telling me not to talk about every small little thing i accomplished at work.
      And with performance reviews that i have been through so far, usually managers do all the praising and recounting anyway, so i felt more comfortable just nodding and get done with it.

      • YOTG on 03/03/2022 - 22:54

        Awesome about your meeting with the boss's boss.
        Great opportunity to learn about what the strategic objectives are and generally they will decide who gets hired in the role you might be looking at next assuming you are going vertically. Definitely say what you think in that meeting especially if you have seen something that will help your business which could lead to something you can get involved into get the ball rolling. Align your development with how it will benefit the business.

        Consider changing your stance to highlight your accomplishments whether big or small in the right settings. This does not mean you have get on a megaphone and make huge noise about it every day at work but when being asked in interviews or performance review where getting a pay rise or bonus maybe on the line is helpful.

        The right attitude towards achieving what you want will go along way and if the meeting goes well you will start to build your brand which will create its own opportunities over time.

  • JuryWheel on 03/03/2022 - 18:16

    Hey a better offer that you would consider accepting, go to your current employer and see what they say. Worst case, they won't match and don't seem that keen on keeping you anyway, best case, they give you a bump up! Probably only works every 2 years or so….depends on the market/industry

  • gtech on 03/03/2022 - 18:19
    +1

    As an employee you have 3 options
    * Change yourself
    * Change the organisation or
    * Change organisation

  • AlanHB on 03/03/2022 - 18:53

    I think you know the answer. Almost always job movements are diagonally up (promotion plus change of business) or sideways (same role, different organisation. It is far less common to get a promotion in your current company, partially because people think of you as the guy in your current role and can't think differently, or because there are limited positions in any one company to move to.

    So apply for a better job elsewhere. 5 years is a very long time to be with any employer.

  • haggertm on 03/03/2022 - 18:54

    Why don't you ask your boss if there are any promotions coming up in the next 3 months because you feel you are ready to take the next step in your career and you would prefer to do it internally?

  • serpserpserp on 03/03/2022 - 18:55
    +2

    Now my whinge:

    Now? I thought up to that point was ALL whinging.

    As some manager said to me once when I wanted a promotion: Git gud.

    • UNO on 03/03/2022 - 19:05
      -1

      Was your manager a Kiwi?

  • sassypants on 03/03/2022 - 19:03

    Don't think I've seen it asked/mentioned, but how well do you get on with your team and managers?

    Most places won't actively give you more $$ without being forced.
    Quiet achievers remain quiet achievers. Yeah, you may get thrown a bone every now and then but you will just be known as the hard worker who gets things done and your extra effort becomes the norm.

    The people who move up the most internally are the ones who are capable and are on good terms with the right people. Some rely more on the latter and are low on the former but they also get ahead too. Seen it too many times, but they're also the ones who are much more likely to be made redundant eventually.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 20:06

      Get along really well with people who deliver / genuinely want to help, and well with people who cant but genuinely try.
      I try not to talk to those who cant deliver yet still think they are the smartest ones out there - why? because i find that they dont appreciate any advice / assistance.

  • core101 on 03/03/2022 - 19:35

    A willing donkey carries the extra load, same pay as others but more work. It seems you boxed yourself, too valuable to be promoted into a different role, and not that valuable for a pay rise. Even if you get a pay rise, it will not be automatic, you will have to repeat the process every year, there will always be animosity. Better of with another company before your drive become permanently demotivated.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 19:55

      thanks. appreciate that advice, and very true on the last bit as it takes alot of will power to convince myself each day that things will be better.

  • monkeybusiness on 03/03/2022 - 20:11
    +1

    Length of tenure and hard work should not be sole reason for promotion. I've seen many cases where people have been in the same role for a long time but lack the potential or the capability to take the next step the career path. Mindset is everything and you need to be performing at the promoted role's expected level.

    Lets flip the script and think from a management's perspective. Who is the better candidate for promotion?

    Candidate A has been in the company for 5 years and works extremely hard. Puts in extra hours resulting in 9-10 hour days to make sure things get done. Very reliable and knows all their processes inside out. This is the typical quiet achiever

    Candidate B has been in the company for 2 years and is in the same role as A. B does not work as hard as A and does their standard 8 hour days. Anything extra, they communicate to their manager and sets the right expectations knowing that they can't do 10 hours worth of work in 8 hours so they prioritise what is important. They look at the existing processes and tries to find ways to do work more effectively rather than focus on just doing the work.

    From a management POV, candidate B wins hands down. Its not about doing the work at the higher level. its about having the growth mindset to succeed at the next level.

    • dummyboy87 on 03/03/2022 - 20:26

      In my mind, I'm a combination of both - and I might be hallucinating lol - I got rid of most of the inefficiencies, it was way worse when i first arrived.
      But if I was senior management, I'd promote A. Certainly from a culture perspective, the expectation on us has always been "I dont care, just get it done".
      Some good managers would even stay up past midnight to see things through - not that they want to but its the culture
      I have never seen, in any of our meeting with senior management, that people say cant do so and so because of whatever
      The high achievers in my broader team always have something to show, no matter how tight the time frame is (even if that means working till midnight / weekends)

      • monkeybusiness on 03/03/2022 - 21:03
        +1

        This is why it is a mindset problem. Getting ALL things done is not always the best outcome for a company. We all want things done but learning how to manage expectations is a lot more important then trying to do everything at once. This is especially when you are in higher level roles where stakeholder management is an extremely important skill. If you constantly say yes to everything, you will burn yourself out and could even get your own company in trouble with fines and penalties when things are not able to be done.

        What person A also does is it encourages a culture of get things done at all costs to the detriment of themselves and the wider company. This is extremely counter productive and not only are they sacrificing themselves, but any staff they manage will quickly hate their jobs and the person that is managing them. This will lead to the company being in a worse position as a wave of staff will leave due to person A encouraging unrealistic work expectations and building a toxic work culture.

        We are in the middle of a skills shortage. If you don't look after your staff and set realistic expectations then you will find that these companies will soon find it very hard to recruit talent or there will be a constant revolving door of people which causes interruptions to the business

      • serpserpserp on 03/03/2022 - 22:34

        In my mind, I'm a combination of both

        Unfortunately not. Because if you could effectively communicate what you bring to the table to management skills and work wise and also what you want in terms of promotion, you'd have it.

        You need to tell everybody what you want until you get told how to get it. Then it is simply doing that work and telling any senior management that will listen along the way that you are doing your x, y, z for your promotion.

  • explosion on 03/03/2022 - 21:41
    -1

    Three options:
    1. You company appreciate your work and promote or increase pay.
    2. They don't do number 1, you don't bother asking. Go find another job
    3. Now provide company last chance before you move out
    4. If you unlucky with in above, means you getting what you deserve ( I know it feels bad but that's life. Everyone don't get everything…looks at putting some personal time in place working long hours etc)

  • Ahbal on 03/03/2022 - 22:24

    Promotions are about networking / connections, social capital, assertiveness and general "street smarts". Additionally, you need to actually show you are ambitious for moving up. If you keep overworking yourself in the same "low position", they will keep you there and have you keep doing the work for them…

  • tikei on 03/03/2022 - 23:51

    Apply for the same role at a different bank then if the only thing stopping you from leaving is the mental stimulation.

  • GerrardsSlip on 04/03/2022 - 01:04

    This sounds like my situation, but I am the younger senior person at work.
    You might be one of the older juniors that I work with, I will give you some instructions:

    1) Ask for promotion and payrise
    2) If not accepted, tell them that you are leaving
    3) They will offer you a better package with higher roles as you are the critical resource in the team
    4) If declined, then leave.

  • zombie hunter on 04/03/2022 - 06:25

    It is sad with most bosses that brown nosing, sleeping with boss or being the boss’s lap dog will get promoted more quickly. There are exceptions

  • tripel on 04/03/2022 - 07:58
    +2

    what's going on is they see you as a sucker, find a new job for more money.

  • Haha Hihi Hoho on 04/03/2022 - 10:54

    go start applying other role, within the business or outside. if you are as important and ureplaceable as you said, they will have to give you something

    i did all of the heavy lifting in the team, problem solve all the shit that came through the team. develop new and more efficient ways of how we operate too, also fixed other team member's mess.

    When i asked for payrise and have SME added to my job title, i got rejected with the comment that i should be doing this as part of the team. when my our manager rage quit, i didnt get his role as i was deemed not a good communicator (kinda accept this as i am not a native speaker) and still refused the payrise and SME title. when the whole team was made redundant, i was still denied payrise and the SME title.

    not until i applied for other jobs and told them i need reference, they came back to me with a raise.

  • GUYANDSON on 04/03/2022 - 11:21

    The big thing to shake is mentality that you are the backbone of the team and that being justification for a fat promo. I've seen it time and time again now, people talk as if teams will fall apart if they leave but in fact teams will manage. Maybe a little worse, maybe a little better but they'll manage. Companies will hire to fill the gap and team members will step up. Leadership teams (and the decision makers) know this.

    Apart from that, end of the day it is about managing expectations. If you're happy to step up and take on extra work from the get go - that's the precedent you set and what management will expect from you. Expectation is hard to shake, so it's often easier to just look elsewhere.

  • blorx on 04/03/2022 - 14:05
    +1

    I like those kinda roles: skilled, work hard enough - don't have to manage anyone. One way to have that and have your promotion is by finding good contracting work.

  • pufffdragon on 04/03/2022 - 14:30
    +1

    The Simpsons episode with Frank Grimes says it all.

  • Janko on 04/03/2022 - 16:37

    I routinely recommended people for promotion in other departments (not upline) to stop the damage they caused in mine. They're happy, I'm happy, new department happy (at least at first) that position was filled internally. Plus there's a chance they were simply good at something else and can perform there. Best leave - if it's true what you're saying and you haven't been promoted, then the company will die soon or prosper through dirty play.

  • suchan on 04/03/2022 - 16:51

    This is what I've observed in many organisations I've been in:
    The problem with promoting people who are hard-working / good at what they do, means that you will tend to get that, managers. Managers aren't leaders. Managers are workers who happen to have been at the organisation longer or happen to be smarter but have no business leading others. Leaders are connectors and people person. Leaders will make an effort to get to know you and to build a relationship with their peers, direct reports and managers.

    I remember joining a large consulting organisation and was getting the tour around the office on my first day. Most of the people I met on that day were super friendly and very much welcoming. They stopped what they are doing, shook my hand and made eye contacts while making small talks. Then we come around to one of the senior managers who were either reading their email or looking at a powerpoint presentation or maybe even watching p*rn for pete's sake.

    My team leader calls out his name, introduces me and I extended my hand to shake his, and then we left him. Throughout the entire exchange, he did not lift his eyes off the monitor once, and didn't lift his arm to shake mine. I don't care if what you're doing is so important that your company's fate hangs in the balance, you can't treat people like that.

  • Scythic on 04/03/2022 - 17:09

    Sleep with the boss 🤣

  • trapper on 04/03/2022 - 17:25
    +1

    Figure out what you want.

    Ask for it.

    If you don't get it leave.

  • ozaym on 04/03/2022 - 19:16
    +2

    I spend 10 years working for a company and got 50k pay rise and couple of promotions, in the end I was in a global role with about 1 billion in revenue, was underpaid by a mile, changed role for 70k pay rise… difference to you I was very happy with the work and the people I worked with, the feedback would be don’t try to change the company culture or the role, move on.

    • dummyboy87 on 07/03/2022 - 09:49

      for the record, i actually like the people around me (sorry if the post came out suggesting otherwise)
      there were 2-3 younger guys that are really capable and smart and i learned alot from them (but it was an ego that I want to do better)
      my whinge was more - i am carrying alot of responsibilities, more than an average person in the broader team, and yet not moving on
      i am absolutely confident if i were to resign right now, i'd probably get a counter offer of 10-20%, but why do i have to game it like this
      im exhausted trying to solve my problems at work (i sit there trying to design a solution with no precedence) that i dont want to have this front of mind in order to look after my self-interest. I solve my employer's problem, they solve mine - thats how i hope it should work - if no title promotion then show me the money =)

      • ozaym on 07/03/2022 - 19:57

        You are me probably 6 years ago, fair is what you negotiate, I can’t stress how important it is it regularly put your employer in uncomfortable situations, I’ve learnt to always over pay, remove any excuses around salary, and I’ll work you to the bone (kidding).

        You never want to get to my point I told my boss outright don’t bother try to match my offer, A) you don’t have the budget B) I won’t accept.

  • ferguson on 04/03/2022 - 20:30

    1) Being good at your job, even if you genuinely are the best in the team, doesn't mean that you are suited for the position you want.
    2) I'm guessing you will have some sort of performance framework which judges you against the levels you need to be at to get various roles. Speak with your manager about putting in place a development plan to get to where you want to be.
    3) Sometimes you just need to change companies to get what you want.

  • seenandunseen on 04/03/2022 - 21:50

    If you want a promotion, set up a meeting with your manager and tell them what you want, then ask them how to achieve it.
    Get them to provide some measurable goals and book in some fortnightly/monthly catch ups to ensure you are on-track to meet those objectives. Basically just wear them down over the year - ensure you do everything they expect (not necessarily what you expect for promotion) and keep asking for feedback to make it hard for them to wriggle out of their commitment.

  • Hangryuman on 04/03/2022 - 21:50

    I started in a public service job with a guy I had been a uni with

    he immediately started applying for promotions, and seemed to spend most of his time filling out such applications

    within about a year he had been promoted to a Director level - above 4 levels above where we started - in his 20s

    personally I found him an irritating a$$hole - but he had fire in the belly - which drove him to get the promotions he wanted.

    in another job, a guy at my level started wearing suit and tie everyday - and within a year he also had been promoted to Director level

    so yeah - demonstrate an interest in and desire for the job you want - and stay visible

    in other news, socio/psychopaths are over-represented in management - they tend to kiss up to their superiors, lie/cheat/steal/gaslight and take credit for their peers' ideas, so when bosses receive complaints from their subordinates they are more likely to believe you're just jealous - at least the sociopath will assure them that's the case, while carefully attuning everything they say to their boss to massage their boss's ego and make them feel this guy is a winner.

    Only after the damage is finally revealed does the truth come out, by which time said a$$hole has typically jumped ship in advance with a golden parachute, and if asked about the disaster that happened while they were in their previous job, with have a perfecly valid explanation about how what they did was the best thing, but unfortunately it was others' fault …

    • dummyboy87 on 07/03/2022 - 09:36

      you are one of the few that actually get what i am trying to express
      why do people who focus solely on the act of getting promotion get promoted, and not those that focus on their work
      in other words, we live in a society that people expect to, and do get promoted, for not doing what they were hired to do.
      wrong incentives!
      and guess what, someone still need to do the work right?
      so its either that loser (like me) who would have to pick up the slack with no recognition or the company just hire 3x more people to do that one person's job
      i know i am old school

  • dfg555 on 04/03/2022 - 22:36
    +1

    taking instructions from someone younger

    fragile ego lol.

  • buckethat on 05/03/2022 - 02:22

    Here's my two cents.

    1. Be good at your job, obviously. Always be the guy with the answer within your remit.
    2. Get to know people in other departments, have good working relationship with everyone, that way you're a known entity, helps you be more visible.
    3. Demonstrate leadership qualities, show willingness to take on more responsibilities and opportunities.
    4. Be a really good communicator, this will generally make you appear more professional, and you'll also be able to sell yourself better when it comes to promotions/raises.

    I personally feel like all these people who keep saying you need to be a boot licker.. are doing it wrong. Just be yourself, if you're any good and you can demonstrate that, you'll be right.

    Also sounds like you need to change up your attitude and drop the ego. You've been in the field for ~12years and you're making what mid 100s I'm guessing? You'll be right.

    • dummyboy87 on 07/03/2022 - 09:43

      thanks buddy - appreciate it
      frankly im ok with 1-3, but not 4 as i dont like to sell myself for tiny little things that are BAU anyway
      absolutely hate boot licking but yes those are the ones that have made it

      just out of interest, for all those who suggested my ego (that i dont show other than here) is unhealthy
      do you actually report to someone younger? ie someone 5yrs younger, making say 100k more than you
      has it not occurred to you at all / prompted the question that why did you not do as well (if not better) than he/she?

      • buckethat on 07/03/2022 - 21:38

        Hey mate,

        Fair enough on 4, but as other have said, keeping your head down and working hard isnt always rewarded. Climbing the corporate ladder is as much about networking as it is hard work in my opinion.

        No, I don't report to someone younger but I know and talk to people who are much more successful at my age or slightly younger in the same field, I generally find it inspiring as it drives me to want to achieve the same result. But I guess its not the same. The more I think about it, the more I do understand how you might feel and its good that you're honest enough with yourself to express it, but as you get older, you will inevitably start coming across situations where you're outranked by someone much younger.

        On the other hand though, I've met plenty of older folks who are seemingly bitter because, like you, they've been hammering away and doing what they do best in the same roles for years without getting any recognition. They basically become part of the furniture, and feel underappreciated. Not saying that you are but, dont end up like those guys.

  • kaleidoscope on 05/03/2022 - 04:11

    For the last 5yrs, I was just hoping to be recognised and given my promotion

    From my experience this has never been the case with medium to large organisations. I worked in my last company for 3-4 years and one before that for 3 years and the only times they offered any kind of worthy of a promotion was when I presented them with a job offer.
    In my former companies I saw exactly what you had described about younger, less talented but people that sell themselves get promoted alot faster than the rest. It is somewhat annoying but that’s just how it is and it’s even worse in corporate culture.
    If it’s not in your nature to do be like those around you describe as getting faster promotions, consider moving on to a different role. Skill up on areas that are better paying and has less work and most of all keep bugging your superiors to get into a bigger role from within your team or company :-)

    Good luck

    fyi i’m in IT industry / software engineering

  • Skyedk on 05/03/2022 - 10:28
    +2

    Hi,

    This post resonates with me as I have been blessed with great career mentors. I'm in my mid thirties and have been a people manager for 10+ years. I've had some great advice along the way which helped me become a stronger leader, not just a young person with a management title.

    Being promoted, you'd expect greater and broader responsibility. You may oversee a greater workload and will be responsible for your direct reports, not just their work & performance but their engagement and future developments.

    4 things I had to learn to do well first.

    1. Plan - to be organised and calm amongst chaos around you and your team

    2. Prioritise - be very mindful of you and your team's capacity and push back. Deprioritise to stay focus on the most important things

    3. Delegate - to free you up so your team can maximise their contribution while you can solve the more complex problems and plan for the future

    4. Communicate - transparency and keeping people informed helps the team stay aligned and generates interests/opportunities for feedback

    To do the above well, you have to know your team, their strengths and areas of improvement, their capacity, your company's targets and the most aligned deliverables, the targets and deliverables of your stakeholders.

    Milestone: Don't work 15+ hours as the team should be sharing the workload (plan, prioritise, delegate). Get some credit for your work (plan, communicate). Get involved with the more strategic projects/planning (plan, prioritise, communicate). Cross train others properly so you can move on to better things (plan, delegate). As you can see the 4 skills can be applied in different combinations to achieve different results. When you hit this milestone, you're in a much better position to get a promotion.

    Now beyond the 4 things, there are many other skills to work on and you'll continue to discover new areas/skills to explore.

    1. Networking/Collaboration - making friends at work is about fostering genuine relationships so you can provide each other support when times are tough or to pursue challenging situations which you cannot tackle on your own. It's about getting advice when required and be heard when you have feedback/suggestions

    2. Emotional intelligence - learn to quieten the anger, anxiety and frustrations so you can deal with situations without bias and see the bigger picture with clarity. Be humble so others are willing to teach and help

    3. People management - you need to develop your people. For many managers, there's no greater joy than to see your team progress to do great things because of your coaching. It's about caring for people beyond their output. Regardless of age, your team would respect you and like you if you genuinely wants to help create a better future for them

    4. Future planning - as a manager, unless you are putting out fires, you should be planning for the future. Strategic planning and changes can greatly improve the team's efficiency, quality of outputs, engagement etc. It's about succession planning so the team survives despite people changes or leave plans. If you are fighting fires, try and uncover the root cause and fix it so you reduce/eliminate future fires.

    5. Decision making - indecision is the worst decision. Embrace the privilege you have a voice. Learn to make better decisions by developing critical thinking. Get advice, perspectives & opinions from your peers.

    Finally, this is about staying hungry and becoming a better leader always. Focus on that, not the next person who gets promoted. If you have proven leadership qualities and skills & knowledge, you will be ready to be a leader. If your current firm recognise it, great. If it doesn't, other companies would be lucky to have you. The best thing with this approach is you won't just have the title but you'll thrive, with the support from an engaged team and peers and upper management who respect you. Leadership qualities are highly versatile and transferrable so industry changes won't make you less of a leader.

    You can't change others but you can reflect and improve. Look out for a mentor. If you are prepared to be honest & willing to change, great mentors can do miracles. I share and coach my teams with my learnings and experience above. Always happy to pay it forward.

    Good luck!

    • dummyboy87 on 07/03/2022 - 09:22

      Thanks buddy - totally appreciate the honest feedback
      The problem that I am facing is being unable to delegate - I would love to but every time I did, the work would find its way back to me.
      And I have been telling my manager that I need to hire my own team - my work is quantitative in nature there is no point hiring people with non-quant background
      But I think he values diversity for the sake of diversity and therefore ignored my advice.
      Today I am the only real quant-ish person in my team and thats why its all coming back to me.
      As you correctly pointed out - I am judged not just on my own performance but others in my team as well as the expectation is that I would train up those non-quants doing quant work

  • random12 on 05/03/2022 - 11:40

    Why are you working more than a 38 hr week?

    There is always 'more work' (most of it is low value). It can be done the next day (if it is worth doing at all).

    • dummyboy87 on 07/03/2022 - 09:53

      well unless my judgement is way out, definitely not the low value stuff thats keeping me there
      in fact, my filter was so high level that sometimes my boss doesnt feel comfortable with stuff that i put aside
      my boss acknowledge my workload issue and the problem is he knows there is no one he can trust
      would always get me to deprioritise the 5 things on my plate, but is constantly chasing me for the other 10
      and these are the 10 that came directly from senior management, not something a random dude came up with

  • mini2 on 05/03/2022 - 12:09

    Can you talk? I find people that are gifted at talking shit tends to get promoted quickly despite they're absolutely fkn useless.

    • dummyboy87 on 07/03/2022 - 09:27

      exactly my problem - i just want to get things done - i talk when i need to talk

  • mecusherb on 05/03/2022 - 21:38

    “They gave me a pay rise but nothing else”

    Okie dokie.

    Being older doesn’t mean you should be looked at first for promotion. Maybe your attitude to having to take direction from younger people is showing and they’re not seeing it as a favourable trait.

    Enjoy your pay rise though…

    • random12 on 06/03/2022 - 01:52

      Maybe it was a relatively low pay rise, and would have required promotion to a people management position to get a larger raise.

      Companies must provide pathways for pay rises and progression whether a person wants to be a subject matter expert or a people manager.

  • 7hours 44min ago on 06/03/2022 - 02:43

    Cbf checking if this has been said. Sit down with you manager, tell him you want to know what you need to do in order to get a promotion or pay rise. Set out goals with him that you will work towards over the next 6 months and then reconvene then.

  • CRS34 on 28/03/2022 - 13:40

    Sounds like your efforts are not being recognized. I would look for another role, and in that search, detail all the extra responsibilities/tasks you took on to get a more senior position.

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