Update: FB Marketplace Buyer Wants a Refund after I Sold Him a Computer That Is Older than He Thought -

LMunsta1975 on 15/03/2022 - 19:16
Last edited 15/03/2022 - 19:25 by 1 other user

G'day everyone….you may remember a post made by user 15fps740m who said I wanted a refund after finding out a PC was older than I thought.

https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/687454

If you have forgotten how it went, here is the link above to his post and subsequent comments and replies. After not getting the response he wanted, he deleted his replies and disabled his account. There are a few people who agreed with him, and I have no problem with that at all. I believe 99.99% of you here wouldn't act as he did in this situation and would have answered the questions put to him truthfully and honestly. He admitted that he didn't want to lose the sale, and by deception was able to close the deal. Buyer beware is the saying. Yep, I agree to that too. I hate that I have to beware….why can't we all just do the right thing?

This is where I asked if the components were current BEFORE going to the sellers house.

15fps740m:
What did you have in mind? I am negotiable

Munsta1975:
Gee, I don't know mate. I am after a PC that my daughter and I can use for video editing…(maybe some games too…don't tell the missus).

Munsta1975:
Are the components still current?

15fps740m:
Yes the components will keep up with video editing and gaming no problem. Very relevant and current components. I have someone else interested at $1000 but they are waiting to get paid so if you wanted to get it before them you are welcome to

I went over, picked up the PC and went home.

I wanted to give the PC some extra grunt by getting some faster RAM. I found some and bought it from K1w1-Chris. I had mentioned that the PC was about 12 months old as told by seller and K1w1-Chris assured me that if this was the case, the DDR4 3600mhz RAM would be fine. I got home and tried to fit it and ended up asking K1w1-Chris if I was doing something wrong. I sent images of the inside of the case and was told that the main components were over 10 years old and not current as seen by 15fps740m's reply to my messenger question above and below.

I made contact with 15fps740m and the conversation is below:

Wed 2:41 PM
Munsta1975:
Hey mate.
You said the pc is about 12 months old yeah.

Wed 3:08 PM
15fps740m
Yes it was put together about 12 months ago

Munsta1975:
Right…are you home later?
I went to put some new ram in and was told that the board will only take dr3
the CPU was released in 2011
not very current in my book mate.
as someone who doesn't know much about all of this now I usually trust most people when I ask them questions.

15fps740m:
It was the fastest CPU in the world at release and easily keeps up with CPU’s from 2016/17, and the ram runs in triple channel so is comparable to DDR4 speed. I’m sure it will suit your needs.

Munsta1975:
Its 2022 mate
not 2011
I'll be bringing it back. Have my money.

15fps740m:
Sorry, I won’t be able to offer you a refund on the PC. I think you paid fair market value for what the parts are worth, the graphics card is selling for over $400 at the moment.

Munsta1975:
We'll see about that.

The conversation ended there. I was pretty pissed off and ready to head over with the PC, but thanks to my level headed wife, I stayed home and was prepared to just let it go and upgrade the PC down the track. Then last Friday the 11th March, I got a PM from K1w1-Chris about the post and that he had left a comment and shared the post with me. After reading the sellers comments and that he had told me those things because he didn't want to lose the sale, I decided the opposite of what Elsa sang…I wasn't going to Let It Go. The seller had sent me an image of a receipt that had his mobile number on it, I rang it and left a message that I had seen his post and how it wasn't turning out the way he wanted. To put the story to bed, I went back Saturday morning, got my $900 back after he checked to make sure I didn't rip him off. (I think he forgot who the deceitful one was.) and I now have an amazing machine that I spent a bit extra on and I am very, very happy with….this one has the flashy RGB's on it too. They are so pretty.

I just want to thank those that supported the other side of the story before hearing it and not just what this person had written.

Have a bloody top day.

Regards,

Munsta1975

Computing

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closed Comments

      • Axelstrife on 18/03/2022 - 10:48
        -1

        this was 3 days ago let it go dude, stop bringing up old posts.

        • caitsith01 on 18/03/2022 - 10:48

          Wow, downvoting because someone replied to a comment on a public forum at a time you disliked. You really are a quality contributor.

  • mmd on 15/03/2022 - 23:17
    +3

    Wow what a story and… in Perth too!
    And good on KiwiChris for showing the other side of the story.
    I'm glad it worked out in the end.
    If you need to buy anything else substantial check here!

    • Munsta1975 on 15/03/2022 - 23:20
      +1

      Yeah, I was really appreciative that K1w1-Chris straightened the story out. He's a good guy.

  • leiiv on 15/03/2022 - 23:30
    +13

    I can't believe other people here blaming the buyer for not doing the research. Yes, he should do it for his own sake. But the seller is definitely.not doing what a respected and trusted ozbargain member should do.
    When asked "Are the components still current?", the seller should answer with "CPU is 2011, Motherboard 2010, GPU 2016." instead of masking with ambiguous words.
    Yes, the buyer's questions may not be exactly clear cut, but the seller should not be taking advantage of it. It is a different matter if the seller can show receipt that he bought all the components within last year, irrespective of the manufacturing date.

    • ankor on 17/03/2022 - 09:23
      -1

      The correct approach would have been to ask the buyer what he intended to do, then provide a correct and accurate response as to benchmarks for the system and to leave it at that.

      • leiiv on 17/03/2022 - 17:52

        Well, does not matter what the buyer intended to do. Honesty and trust are the important things here. The seller may not be lying technically, but for all intent and purpose, taking into account all things together, I am convinced that he tried to deceive and rip off the buyer. No way I would buy a system with 2011 CPU for $900.

        • ankor on 17/03/2022 - 23:42

          I think you're answering something I never said. If the seller just mentioned the specs and left the buyer to do their own research, they'd be fine. But the seller was an @ss and was deceitful instead and said yeah it is current. That's where this while issue came about.

          The specs of that computer weren't great but they weren't crap either. A lot can be done in terms of gaming and editing with it, tho with only a 1tb HDD I wonder exactly what video editing would, or could have occurred.. it was built for decent fps gaming at 1440p and nothing else. There is still residual value in those components within the sale pc, just not 1k worth.

          If I was the seller of that system, I'd have offered it for about 450-500, maybe a bit more, ad then let myself be haggled down to about 400-450 as a an endpoint.

          Buying and selling is all about research and negotiation. If you haven't done it, then you don't know what you are buying, whether what you are looking to buy is suitable for your needs and the fair market value of it.

          Ultimately, the seller doesn't need to roll out the red carpet for a naive buyer, but the bare minimum is not to mislead.

          • leiiv on 18/03/2022 - 02:36

            @ankor:

            I think you're answering something I never said.

            Perhaps I was. But as you said, the seller doesn't need to roll out the red carpet, so he does not need to care about what the buyer intended to do. Just answer the questions honestly in a straightforward manner. When selling a second hand stuff, it is especially important to let the buyer know about the age of the item to the best of the seller's knowledge. Spec is not everything. The same model of item could have been used one year or two years or even more.

            Buying and selling is all about research and negotiation

            No, not always. I hate haggling, and I appreciate very much that most shops here in Australia have fixed pricing. When I sell used stuff, I don't negotiate on the price. Still, a lot of people try to haggle down even when the ads says price is non-negotiable, which are wasting everyone's time. When I buy used stuff, I will only buy if I thought the price is fair and from the one who gives the best price.

  • lew380 on 16/03/2022 - 09:56
    +14

    So to sum up, buyer is ignorant and didn't do his research, seller is a sneaky snake merchant trying to flog off lemon components to unsuspecting buyers. The perfect match. Op should learn from his mistake and always google everything involved in a purchase.

    I would like to see the original add to see what lengths the seller went to to obscure the parts identity, i have often seen these as "8gb of gaming memory!" in the add only to realise they are asking for 80 bucks for ddr3 when you google the mobo.

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 09:59

      Original ad is on page 2 in a comment by K1w1-Chris. The link is at the top.

      • lew380 on 16/03/2022 - 10:53
        +3

        Oh yea, sneaky to the max. Even mentions that the parts or "better than most on the market", pure bs to trick and manipulate. Classic gumtree scum bag.

        • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 11:06

          I'm glad you had a look at the listing.

        • Chandler on 16/03/2022 - 11:11
          +5

          Yeah I'm with Munsta1975 on this one. The way that ad was presented I'm thinking it is a decent machine until I read the CPU (screenshots went bottom to top, so I read it last). I was originally wondering why they left off the CPU model (i.e. i5-5300) until i realised that 990x was the model number and that the CPU is first gen!

          And I'm someone who's pretty techy (check my tech-related comment history), although not very well versed in hardware (and so didn't pickup the age from the motherboard).

          Seller was definitely trying to pull one over Munsta - although good on him for doing the right thing in the end.

  • Herbse on 16/03/2022 - 15:33

    Anyone got the PC specs?

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 15:36

      Original ad is on page 2 in a comment by K1w1-Chris. The link is at the top

      • Herbse on 16/03/2022 - 15:42

        I don't see it. Might be removed?

          • AndyC1 on 16/03/2022 - 20:00
            +1

            @Munsta1975: Googling "intel i7 990X" shows "Launch Date Q1'11" and this took less than a minute once the CPU spec was known.

            • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 20:01
              -1

              @AndyC1: GSTFYC

              • Chandler on 17/03/2022 - 09:17

                @Munsta1975: GSTFYC = ??? (maybe "Google Search That For Yourself, (profanity) ?)

                Can't find many results online. Funnily enough DuckDuckGo gives me this page, but Google doesn't!

                • Munsta1975 on 17/03/2022 - 10:49
                  +1

                  @Chandler: Hahahaha…Nah, it was Good Stuff Thanks For Your Comment. Hahahah

          • johnwinds on 16/03/2022 - 22:30

            @Munsta1975: This guy should be in marketing.

            • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 22:37

              @johnwinds: I reckon! Or a Polly.

              • johnwinds on 16/03/2022 - 22:38
                +1

                @Munsta1975: Didn't you get an icky vibe when you first read his ad?

                • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 22:45

                  @johnwinds: Nah, I didn't. When I met him he seemed like a nice guy…turns out he wasn't honest with me in his dealings. I should have done more research of course, I haven't denied that. I just wish people could be honest…Maybe I shouldn't be so trusting but that is just the way I am. Cheers, mate.

                • Chandler on 17/03/2022 - 09:19
                  +1

                  @johnwinds: Yeah I didn't really get an icky vibe reading it myself. Was very sales-ey, but not icky IMO.

                  I'm probably too trusting like Munsta.

                  • johnwinds on 17/03/2022 - 10:02
                    +2

                    @Chandler: Sentences like

                    "The PC is ready to plug in and start gaming with nothing more to do."

                    and

                    "best in socket CPU and runs games great"

                    raised my hackles and felt like they were preying on less pc-savvy individuals.

                    • Chandler on 17/03/2022 - 10:06

                      @johnwinds:

                      "The PC is ready to plug in and start gaming with nothing more to do."

                      Nothing wrong with that IMO - even seems like that line is 100% honest. Yes, the PC isn't current; but it is still reasonably performant (if you're looking at raw performance and not comparing against more recent hardware)

                      "best in socket CPU and runs games great"

                      raised my hackles

                      Yeah but were you reading that in the context of it being a i7-990x?

                      If the PC had an i7-10700K, would it still raise your hackles?

                  • Munsta1975 on 17/03/2022 - 10:58
                    +1

                    @Chandler: I am too trusting….not that it is a bad thing. I am grateful the seller came to their senses and agreed to give my money back, but I won't forget he answered questions like a politician during Q & A.

                    I have learned to be honest and fair….my word is my word and I will look you in the eyes, shake your hand and expect the same. If not, then that isn't on me, it is on them. I have been burned in the past by friends and strangers. It will happen again, I don't doubt that.

                    I appreciate your input.

  • BartholemewH on 16/03/2022 - 16:09
    +5

    Glad it worked out OP. I reckon the seller was dodgy af. He could sense you weren't savvy straight up, and when queried on the age of the hardware he should have been upfront. If you don't have a pc 'nerd' in your pocket, post the spec list on OCAU, or here even, and you'll have a yay or nay in minutes.

    Edit: Just read the machine specs, jfc. This is the kind of tarted up shit you find on gumtree.

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 16:29

      Thanks, I am glad it worked out too. I was able to find someone to build me an awesome machine. I was there when he was building it and I really enjoyed watching the build.

      • BartholemewH on 17/03/2022 - 15:30
        +1

        Yeah there's nothing to it eh? Part compatibility is the main issue (as you have found) . Maybe you can have a crack at it next time!

        • Munsta1975 on 17/03/2022 - 15:33

          I def will….the 1tb ssd that we installed in the system dropped out for some reason and i opened up the case and checked the cables, replaced the SATA cable and it seems that it was faulty. All good now.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2022 - 17:09
    +7

    The first result in Google for p6x58d-e (the motherboard) is the Asus website showing the specs and supported hardware. It obviously also shows supported CPU and RAM.

    What kind of a weird question is, "Are the components still current?" Do you buy a car, and not ask their year of initial release, but is the car current? Do you buy new wheels by saying, it's 12 months old, give me wheels that will fit on a 12 month old car?

    DDR3 is still being made today. New. Is that current enough for you?

    I understand the buyer knows absolutely nothing, and refused to do even the most basic research about what they were buying, but that CPU/GPU combo would indeed do everything you asked of it. Even if it was a "current" DDR4 system, going from 2133 to 3600 RAM would do absolutely nothing noticeable to increase performance.

    I have never sold complete systems myself. I prefer to just sell the components individually, and even then I have had completely clueless buyers. They are a pain to deal with, ask many ridiculous questions, and then don't buy. K1w1-Chris should have asked what motherboard or CPU you have if you asked if it would be compatible. No one asks how old it is, or if it's "current" to sell you RAM. Was he deceptive too, or are you just willfully ignorant?

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 17:17
      -3

      LOL

      • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2022 - 17:31
        +6

        This thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode about nature shows.

        "You always root for whichever animal's the star of the show that week. Like if it's the antelope, and a lion's chasing the antelope, you go, "Run, antelope, run! Use your speed! Get away!" The next week it's the lion, and then you go, "Get the antelope! Eat him! Bite his ass! Trap him! Don't let him use his speed!""

        You are the antelope. In this thread, people want you to use your (RAM) speed.

        • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 17:36

          And you think I'm the weird one. K

          • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2022 - 17:46
            +5

            @Munsta1975: If the Seinfeld quote didn't make it clear, in the original thread, the majority of the people supported the OP, and the same is true here. Considering your age, and that you still type "LOL" as your only response, I thought you might appreciate the humor.

            I have no idea how weird you are, but asking if something is current is indeed a strange question to be asking about computers, and would not give you any useful information.

            Just like saying it was 12 months old when buying new parts. I tried to use the car as an example. I assume you're more familiar with cars, and can see how ridiculous it would be to use that as a basis for buying replacement parts.

            It will run all current software, although Windows 11 has some specific requirements and that's why so few people are using it.

            • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 17:56

              @[Deactivated]: I don't know why you youngens use these days….YOLO, FOMO?

              As for my level of weirdness….I am up there. I think anyone who loves Seinfeld is a little weird…and I do love Seinfeld. I can't recall that episode. Might have to find it.

              I think the question about the components was a reasonable one. It might not be a question you'd ask but is a different way of asking how old something is.

              Cheers for the comment.

              • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2022 - 18:05
                +1

                @Munsta1975: It was during his standup routine, so at the start or end. You probably at least remember the time George became a marine biologist? Anyway, that episode. I wasn't having a go at your age. I simply meant that it was on TV and popular at the time, so you would likely also be a fan.

                • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 18:19

                  @[Deactivated]: I am going to have to have a look now…I did start watching the series again. I wanted to do a short film….like a Seinfeld episode where the character…George went into the work toilet and someone had destroyed to bowl and hadn't cleaned it up…so George walks out of the cubicle refusing to clean it up in disgust. As he walks out someone walks in and into the cubicle to find the mess……what do you reckon? Sound like a good episode….a bit like the pissing in the shower. Hahahaha

                  • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2022 - 18:24
                    +1

                    @Munsta1975: Sounds like a good start. I can see that happening. Watching George get angry is always hilarious.

        • popsiee on 16/03/2022 - 17:37
          +1

          Personally I like UFC entertainment like this not Computer Nerd sleep material : https://www.9news.com.au/videos/national/metal-pole-attack-f…

          • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 17:44

            @popsiee: That was a beaut little donnybrook. Cheers for sharing.

    • Chandler on 17/03/2022 - 10:02
      +2

      The first result in Google for p6x58d-e (the motherboard) is the Asus website showing the specs and supported hardware. It obviously also shows supported CPU and RAM.

      And that means? Oh, it's supports:

      CPU Validated since PCB Validated since BIOS
      Core i7 920(2.66G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.C0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 920(2.66G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.D0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 930(2.8G,L2:8M, rev.D0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 940(2.93G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.C0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 950(3.06G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.D0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 960(3.2G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.D0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 970(3.2G,Smart Cache:12M, rev.B1,130W) ALL 0211 GO
      Core i7 980(3.33G,Smart Cache:12M, rev.B1,130W) ALL 0701 GO
      Core i7 Extreme Edition 965(3.20G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.C0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 Extreme Edition 975(3.33G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.D0,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 Extreme Edition 980X (3.33G,shared cache:12M, rev.B1,130W) ALL 0108 GO
      Core i7 Extreme Edition 990X(3.46G,L2:6x256KB,L3:12M,rev.B1,130W)

      That means jack shit to me, apart from recognising that i7-9xx is first gen, but I'm significantly more technically inclined than Munsta (based on what I've read)

      And Memory/Device Support gives us:

      Version - 2022/03/14 update 18.19 Kbytes New_SSD_List
      Version -2010/05/10 update 117.46 Kbytes P6X58D-E Memory QVL

      That 2010 date gives me pause, but I had to navigate a bit to get there. And it doesn't sound like OP was looking at upgrading RAM prior to purchase. I also doubt Munsta even knows what QVL means - hell even I need to search it (I though it was something like a "certified manufactuer's list"; but again, I am more technically inclined).

      A lot of easily accessible PC technical information online is not layperson readable - we've almost gotten to legalese levels of technobabble. And sales technobabble is not helping.

      What kind of a weird question is, "Are the components still current?" Do you buy a car, and not ask their year of initial release, but is the car current?

      Current as in recently released. I'm with OP here - PC components I couldn't care less if it was MY22 or MY20 - I'd care if they're current generation. TBF car I'd be similar - is it the current model (i.e. 2018-present) - although MY would be important in this case as I'd like to know if it has been sitting around at a dealer for a while. In OP's case, seller told them they'd built the PC 12 months ago - pretty fair to assume the motherboard was up to 2 years old (from purchase, so up to say 3 years old MY), not 10+.

      DDR3 is still being made today. New. Is that current enough for you?

      New product ≠ current. Current is DDR5, although since that's still rolling out I'd consider DDR4 still current. DDR3 is not current, even if still being manufactured; especially considering it is two generations behind now.

      I understand the buyer knows absolutely nothing, and refused to do even the most basic research about what they were buying

      If you're not techy how do you even begin to understand what you're reading, especially given the sales pitch even the manufacturer's support sites have on them. It takes a bit of brain-wiring to know how to find information online, and how to glean the information you actually want once you've found somewhere. Hell even I have to read it a bit to get my head around it - and a lot of people in my life consider me the IT guy.

      but that CPU/GPU combo would indeed do everything you asked of it.

      I don't think the issue was it being fit for purpose, but concerns about longevity (and potentially resale value).

      Bit hard to upgrade the CPU if the socket isn't current/recent gen. Likewise with RAM (even if performance improvements would be marginal).

      I have never sold complete systems myself. I prefer to just sell the components individually, and even then I have had completely clueless buyers. They are a pain to deal with, ask many ridiculous questions

      That's clueless buyers for you.

      and then don't buy.

      You're honest about it, then.

      K1w1-Chris should have asked what motherboard or CPU you have if you asked if it would be compatible. No one asks how old it is, or if it's "current" to sell you RAM. Was he deceptive too, or are you just willfully ignorant?

      Again, pretty reasonable to assume that DDR4 is suitable if the PC was built in the last 12 months.

      • Blitzfx on 17/03/2022 - 12:12
        +3

        It's much worse than that. Average user would stop at Core i7 and think it's top of the line and disregard the numbers following that. Core i9 being top and Core i5 being pretty average.
        Having to do a lot of IT support, it's annoying to explain computer parts to non-tech savvy users.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2022 - 19:07

        That 2010 date gives me pause

        Would it also make you think it was released in 2010, or would you think they planned ahead over a decade in advance?

        And it doesn't sound like OP was looking at upgrading RAM prior to purchase.

        Yet, they decided to upgrade, but not look up the "CPU/Memory Support" which when upgrading memory, is the key point. They just happen to be on the same list.

        Back to my car analogy, do you buy wheels by looking up the supported offset, bolt pattern, and size, or do you just buy any random thing? If you don't know what those things are, find out.

        I'd like to know if it has been sitting around at a dealer for a while.

        Not a dealer, but a private seller selling used with individual parts from a wide range of release dates.

        I don't think the issue was it being fit for purpose, but concerns about longevity (and potentially resale value).

        Then ask? Anything can fail at any time. If you're concerned about longevity, and it doesn't have a warranty, then if it dies shortly after purchase, that's the risk you take. Resale value? They have no idea about the value of what they're buying, and refused to make even the most cursory of searches, so doubtful.

        The comment just before "is it current?" was "I am after a PC for video editing and games." So yes, being fit for that purpose is relevant. It was the preceding comment, which puts the "current" question into context. There's not a single current game this couldn't play, and would be able to edit videos in current resolutions.

        Again, pretty reasonable to assume that DDR4 is suitable if the PC was built in the last 12 months.

        Make up your mind, either it's reasonable to assume, or it's not. Either it's reasonable to assume current means it will run current software and be suitable for those tasks, or it's not.

        If someone asked me if RAM I was selling was compatible with their system, and yes I get this question a lot, I would ask what motherboard they have. I do not assume. I don't want to deal with returns, and if someone didn't ask, that's on them, not me. It's worse for DDR3, because some is AMD only, and then there's ECC, and of course form factor. There is also speed to consider. If it says 2133, but they can only run it at 1600, they get mad. If they don't ask though, also on them.

        • Chandler on 18/03/2022 - 02:07
          +1

          Would it also make you think it was released in 2010, or would you think they planned ahead over a decade in advance?

          It would. But again, I'm fairly tech savy and internet-literate, which it sounds like you are too. The date in question wasn't on the page for the motherboard linked from the search results - I did have to follow another link to get there.

          Yet, they decided to upgrade, but not look up the "CPU/Memory Support" which when upgrading memory, is the key point. They just happen to be on the same list.

          If I was looking to upgrade components on my machine, I probably wouldn't be going to the motherboards support page. Hell, I recently upgrade my partners HDD (to an SSD) and got another stick of RAM for their laptop, and I got the information for those purchases off Crucial's site as I found it easy to understand. Also helped that I just ended up getting Crucial parts (I was already looking at them for the SSD anyway). If I had someone I could just ask, I probably would - again, I bounce ideas around here and other parts of the internet all the time.

          Back to my car analogy, do you buy wheels by looking up the supported offset, bolt pattern, and size, or do you just buy any random thing? If you don't know what those things are, find out.

          No I usually just ask the guy at the tire place for new tires. They ask me the equivalent of cheap, moderate or expensive. Most people aren't out there to pull one over you.

          Not a dealer, but a private seller selling used with individual parts from a wide range of release dates.

          Dealer = part of the car analogy. Was the fact that it was an old machine with numerous upgrades done over an extended period of time part of the advertisement?

          Yes, you can look at those model numbers and realise it's ancient, but OP can't; and yes people can search the internet, but again, the internet isn't some easy to use repository of knowledge. You know (or at least have a feel for) where to look, terms to skim for, what sites to avoid, what sites are trustworthy, etc (or at least that's the feeling I get from you).

          Then ask? Anything can fail at any time. If you're concerned about longevity, and it doesn't have a warranty, then if it dies shortly after purchase, that's the risk you take.

          They did ask, and were misled. It is a risk, but it's reasonable to assume a PC only 12 months old should have a decent amount of life left.

          Resale value? They have no idea about the value of what they're buying, and refused to make even the most cursory of searches, so doubtful.

          Not really - they knew they were buying it for $900. Given the (advised) age of it and that price, it'd be reasonable to think resale value would be decent for some period of time, not that you were being sold a dinosaur.

          Having said that, that CPU is actually no slouch from my quick searching. Chose the 6700K as I could pick this up for $950 if I wanted one. Comparable CPU, significantly better (if older) GPU.

          So yes, being fit for that purpose is relevant. It was the preceding comment, which puts the "current" question into context.

          Yes and no. I read the "current" questions being about the machine and it's components being "current". That CPU is by no means current. If you think that's current, I'd try find my old 486 DX2 to sell you (probably not since it's probably a collectors item these days!). Having said that, as mentioned previously it is no slouch. Doesn't make it current but.

          Make up your mind, either it's reasonable to assume, or it's not. Either it's reasonable to assume current means it will run current software and be suitable for those tasks, or it's not.

          I'm not arguing about software and task compatibility - even the OP considers the hardware fit for purpose (from my understanding). Still not current hardware, which is what OP's issue is. And any PC that takes DDR3 is not current, in my opinion. Some DDR4s I wouldn't call current either.

          If someone asked me if RAM I was selling was compatible with their system, and yes I get this question a lot, I would ask what motherboard they have. I do not assume.

          You're a good salesperson then.

          if someone didn't ask, that's on them, not me

          Agreed. And OP even accepted that they didn't do enough research nor ask enough questions - but the questions they did ask were given misleading answers to; which is the crux of the matter.

          • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2022 - 03:13

            @Chandler: I think what this ultimately comes down to is, what kind of a question is current? If someone asked me if something was current, I would ask them what they mean. It is kind of open to interpretation. Considering how easy it is to find a component's initial release date, I would not be leaning towards that being what they were asking.

            I also think there's a difference between buying from a store/dealer/business and an individual. Buyer beware, especially in private sales. There is no legal protection. Unless what was sold was misrepresented, or was non functional, I don't see it being the private seller's fault.

            • Chandler on 18/03/2022 - 12:03

              @[Deactivated]: It is. I still think we're thinking searching for information is easier than we think - I agree with you: it's easy; but I'm trying to temper that with my known skill level. There's smart people that I've helped with search queries before, purely because I had a better understanding of how to web search effectively - admittedly those were more complicated searches.

              But I digress - OP already did admit to not doing enough research and being too trusting. In this particular case I don't think I could give the seller the benefit of the doubt: it does really look like he tried to be at least a little bit dodge to secure the sale. But thankfully in they did the right thing in the end.

              At the end of the day, lesson learnt for OP and an interesting talking point for all of us.

          • DemocracyManifest on 18/03/2022 - 09:17

            @Chandler: I’m surprised how good the cpu scored too - shows that there isn’t too much between generations really besides marketing…i used to run a i7 6600 but before that a pre ryzen system AMD Phenom II X6 with a R9 280X. The components I resold for probably close to $500 seperate, kept the ssd. Selling PCs whole isn’t worth it as people always try to scam and say things dont work etc

    • K1w1-Chris on 20/03/2022 - 10:41
      +1

      Only just saw this so sorry for the late reply, Munsta did ask if there are different types of ram when buying mine, I told him that ddr3 is very old, I googled when ddr3 was released and when ddr4 was released and told Munsta that unless his pc was about 10years old it will most likely be using ddr4, I also told him that ddr4 is what most pc's these days will have and that ddr5 is very new and only in the most expensive top of the range and most up-to date pc's that are very expensive and that is was unlikely he would have ddr5 unless he bought a brand new very expensive PC. Munsta informed me that he was told the PC he had bought was only 12months old so would most likely be dd4, we were both happy that he would indeed require ddr4 based on this information.

      I didn't ask what motherboard Munsta had bought, I didn't ask what CPU he had, I didn't see the for sale ad from the PC he bought, if I had of seen the ad I would have done more research for him but at the end of the day this story would still have played out that Munsta was deceived by the original PC Seller, I did do some minimal research to be able to be as honest as I could when Munsta asked about ddr ram types and I informed him truthfully. When Munsta tried to install the ram he sent me a picture and straight away just from looking at it I could tell it wasn't ddr4 compatible, I noticed the motherboard model in the photo and googled it and informed Munsta that his PC was not 12months old and more like 12years old, this is when he contacted the original buyer and this all started turning south.

      A few days later I spotted the Sellers OP and saw that he was being deceitful and trying to shame Munsta without his knowledge, I informed Munsta and I proceeded to set the story straight on the sellers OP, the Seller deleted his OP and he deleted his account on OzBargain as soon as the truth came out, thankfully moderators returned the OP so everyone could still read it, that should be enough to realise the seller tried to run and hide after being caught out for being deceitful… no doubt in my mind that if the sellers OP wasn't set straight and I hadn't informed Munsta about it he would still have a $900 very old (not current) PC and wouldn't have been able to chase the seller for a refund, fair to say I think I went well above and beyond to help Munsta out (someone I'd only met once), I wouldn't call that me being deceptive.

  • Kranbone on 16/03/2022 - 18:27
    +1

    Glad you got your money back and a better machine.

    Always important to hear both sides of a story before making a judgement. Shame on those who backed the OP in the other thread without context from the other party.

  • BreezyPalms on 16/03/2022 - 18:58
    +5

    This dispute belongs on Judge Judy

    • smpantsonfire on 16/03/2022 - 19:01
      +2

      I would love this. Ozbargain Judge Judy. JV as Judge.

      • HairyChickens on 16/03/2022 - 19:32
        +3

        I think JV would be quite bold

    • Herbse on 16/03/2022 - 19:49
      +3

      Is Judge Judy even current?

      • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 19:52
        +1

        Depends.

      • lachhelix on 17/03/2022 - 10:47

        It's called Judy Justice now - she runs the show!

        • Munsta1975 on 17/03/2022 - 11:01

          I love Judge Judy Sheindlin.

  • tpopi on 16/03/2022 - 19:18
    +16

    A lot of comments on this issue, but to me a few basic things stood out:

    1. Buyer did not originally mislead with his marketplace post - certainly some creative marketing/advertising, but no obvious deception

    2. Seller should have googled parts list to get some idea of what he was buying

    3. Turning point = in phone txt exchange, Buyer clearly answered "Yes…" when asked if the components were current (ignore everything said after Yes)

    4. Turning point 2 = in phone txt exchange, Buyer clearly answered "Yes…" when asked if the pc was 12 months old (ignore everything said after Yes)

    You can't answer "Yes" to a question and then change the meaning of the response by referring to a question that wasn't asked in the first place with the intent of misleading.

    Correct (and honest) responses are:
    "No, most of the components are not current", "Only some of the components are current"
    "No, most of the PC parts are more than 12 months old", "Only some of the PC parts are 12 months old"

    • AndyC1 on 16/03/2022 - 20:02
      +1

      100% agree and Googling "intel i7 990X" shows "Launch Date Q1'11" and this took less than a minute once the CPU spec was known.

    • ankor on 17/03/2022 - 09:27
      +1

      The funny thing is that the computer advertised is fast enough to do everything that the OP would likely want to do anyway.

      The only issue was how it was sold to the buyer.

      • Antikythera on 17/03/2022 - 11:05
        +1

        fast enough….but you can build a new Ryzen 5700G based system for $1000 that is 300% faster

        https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/xqmnH2

        with 32GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD

        only thing is it doesn't have a dedicated GPU but gaming wasn't a priority for OP apparently.

        • ankor on 17/03/2022 - 12:24
          +1

          We would still need at least a 6gb hdd for storing videos and the cost of software (e.g. windows).
          Not sure what video editing software the op needed but it seemed like that wasn't part of the subject sale or the new computer.
          I dunno how a ryzen 5700g does as a gaming computer without a gpu so I can't say if it's decent. Is the daughter playing something easy on the gfx or is she playing elden ring?

          Also, using pcpartpicker and choosing from so many different places, does that mean you are paying delivery fees for each component? that ramps up your costbase significantly.

          I said elsewhere wouldn't have paid more than $650 for the old specc'd pc, but looking back over the specs after finding it in another comment, I'd have haggled hard for about $450-$550 max.

          • DemocracyManifest on 18/03/2022 - 09:27
            +1

            @ankor: Yeah $450-$550 would have got it over the line when the GPU alone can fetch up to $300, board and cpu about $100, ram $100, psu upwards of $70, then case and fans ~$150ish, ssd $80-$100 - the ballpark separately is still around $700 if you sourced everything individually

  • lothus777 on 16/03/2022 - 19:39
    +8

    This is like asking a seller that bought a Brand New iPhone 6 less than 12 months ago if the phone is current. Stupid..

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 19:51

      Is it? Its pretty common knowledge the latest iphone is the iphone 10.

      • potm on 16/03/2022 - 20:12

        Can I sell you an iphone 10?

        • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 20:19

          Hahaha…I know the iphone 13 is the latest

    • Kallavan14 on 16/03/2022 - 20:01
      +3

      Not comparable at all. iPhones are mainstream consumer devices meanwhile I sincerely doubt your average person would be able to recognise how old a Core i7 990x is.

      If I told my sister that that processor was released last year she would wholeheartedly believe me. If I told her the iPhone 6 was released last year she would know it's a lie immediately.

      Yes the buyer should have done his due diligence but unfortunately not everyone does

    • AndyC1 on 16/03/2022 - 20:04

      Agree and "New Old Stock" is brand new.

  • kev98 on 16/03/2022 - 19:47
    +2

    Munsta seems like a pain in the backside. Computer parts were 12 months old and were all listed - so could have googled to see when they were released.

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 19:48
      -6

      0.01%er here

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 19:56
      +1

      Did you say parts were 12 months old?

    • AndyC1 on 16/03/2022 - 20:03
      +4

      1000% agree.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 16/03/2022 - 20:26
    +13

    Munsta - it worked out okay for you - barely but moral of the story - get specs and check them out. That's what a PC is all about

    How little you researched this PC based on your comments before handing over $900 is alarming

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 20:28

      Cheers, mate.

    • AndyC1 on 16/03/2022 - 20:29
      +1

      100% agree and Googling "intel i7 990X" shows "Launch Date Q1'11" and this took less than a minute once the CPU spec was known.

      • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 20:30
        -2

        YAALIWIWMLY!

  • DiscoJango on 16/03/2022 - 20:56
    +1

    How old is the computer?

    I put 8 year old components together 12 months ago.

    No better than all those fake listings you see, eg: Nike style shoes, where the style means kind of like nike but not really aka fake.

  • 1Kenobi on 16/03/2022 - 21:14
    +1

    Tldr

    • Heaps for Cheaps on 16/03/2022 - 22:15
      +8

      Seller listed PC for sale for $1k - Specific component details were provided that would instantly lead anyone with a fleeting interest in builds to stay clear as its way overpriced
      Buyer came along and believed that price should dictate quality and with a 1k budget asked a few questions which were answered with a bit of puffery
      Buyer went home and then realised he had received a bad deal and developed buyers remorse before requesting refund
      Seller came on here to ask for advice, but the buyer noticed the thread and created an account to dispute the sellers version of events
      Seller refunded buyer

      • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 22:38
        +1

        Mmmmm, not quite but ok.

      • spackbace on 16/03/2022 - 22:39
        +1

        Tldr?

        • Heaps for Cheaps on 16/03/2022 - 22:40

          Seller of used PC seemingly struck the jackpot by selling 10yo $400 PC for $1k.
          Buyer then complained and received refund.
          Seller no longer OzBargain member and possibly using data recovery software to see what embarrassing traces buyer left on PC.

          • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 22:50

            @Heaps for Cheaps: Hahahahaha. Left nothing. I'm not a complete mug. Plus I don't think he would be that silly. Especially after our 2nd encounter.

          • Antikythera on 17/03/2022 - 11:08
            +2

            @Heaps for Cheaps:

            $400 PC for $1k

            to be fair to the seller he could have sold the CPU and GPU on ebay for $200 and $300 alone if he took the time to part it out.

        • Munsta1975 on 18/03/2022 - 17:36
          -1

          I just used that Google thing someone mentioned.

          TLDR

          Too Long Didn't Read.

  • thermos on 16/03/2022 - 22:50
    +2

    When buying something of value, some research seems appropriate to me. i.e. google what computer do I need for basic video editing etc. More so, if buying second hand.
    If I have taken the risk without doing my homework, I have borne the consequences.

    • Munsta1975 on 16/03/2022 - 22:52

      That's shit. I am lucky now to have made a couple of friends in the know who I can ask for help if needed.

      • pinchies on 16/03/2022 - 23:23
        +4

        Welcome to the internet. There is a specific acronym for this one: DYOR — do your own research.

        Yes, it sucks, but Facebook marketplace and Gumtree are certainly not the places to be blindly trusting. You think this was a bad deal? Well, there are many outright scams on there.

        Kudos to seller for refunding, that's certainly more conscience than many sellers I've seen on there.

        Friends in real life life are certainly invaluable.

  • penguincat on 16/03/2022 - 23:54
    +3

    1060 being worth $400 is a laugh of the day really worth that much? You can get open box 2060 for about $500 with 3 years warranty.

    I'm not going to lie I was attempting to sell some no longer used PC stuff Ryzen 3000 series cpu and a b450 motherboard and the original post by 15fps740m scared me to the point I pulled my listing. I didn't want angry people at my door at 3am.

    I think after seeing each argument both sides where a bit on the wrong.
    Google parts if it has them listed. So it wasn't really hidden/sneaky. But also don't say it's only new and shiny when it's not. Built/bought in the past 12 months doesn't mean much.

    The story does remind me of this.

    In 2002 a friend took computer that wasn't well due to a virus or something to a repair store. Then neither side got in contact with each other for over a month. Store had written down the wrong phone number.
    The next the friend had heard was after they called the store, oh that PC sorry it's gone we harvested it for parts as it was declared as abandoned.
    We can give you a computer we had just built in exchange to say sorry.
    After trying to use it they put it under their house as it seemed slow and something wouldn't run on it. Then asked me if I could look at it in 2003.
    So I got it and plugged it in and nearly wet myself. I said don't believe a PC store that sold your computer instead of fixing it with out your permission.
    They had replaced their at worse 1 year old 2001 PC for a Pentium 133mhz from 1995.

    Friend: it was that old? I was told it was just recently built that's why I said ok to the trade.
    Me: built from scrap they had left over nothing in it is new nor worth the effort as it's going to feel slow because it is slow.

    So if someone says it was "recently built " just go nope until you verify that it's the age of something you are after as that seems to be the catch. Built doesn't exactly imply it's age. :)

    • idonotknowwhy on 17/03/2022 - 10:12

      I didn't want angry people at my door at 3am.

      I sold a prebuilt Dell PC on gumtree (cheaply!) a few years ago, with a downgraded GPU.
      I mentioned this in the listing, the specs up, etc.
      3 weeks later, the buyer wanted a refund because the GPU didn't match the specs on the Dell website for the PC model…

      No angry people at my door though, because I met in a public place. Always do this when dealing with people on fb/gumtree.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2022 - 19:16

      1060 being worth $400 is a laugh of the day really worth that much?

      Not currently, but they were going for that not too long ago. Prices have settled somewhat since then.

    • DemocracyManifest on 18/03/2022 - 09:37
      +1

      Yeah this is why I part everything on eBay. No one asks stupid questions. No questions about ‘how old something is’ because it’s plainly obvious. If they don’t know how to build a pc they aren’t going to buy it, and I’m not helping lol. Also these people know: if it’s been running all this time, it’s not a lemon. A decent branded 800w-1000w power supply thats performed well over the years with good components is going to be better and more reliable over a cheap $80 gigabyte explosive device. I was surprised having repeat bidders and buyers; these guys must have houses and sheds full of stuff

  • pollambo on 16/03/2022 - 23:56
    +1

    If we were all more trusting of each other like yourself the world would be a much better place. Instead OzB loves to victim blame and shame in the rat race. You are in the right for asking for your money back. In the case where the seller didn't provide the money, the only way to recover your money is to head to the small claims court with the buyer's details (name and address) which if you did in this case, you would have easily won considering the deceitful conduct in a written message.

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