No, Medicare Should NOT Cover Dental Work

SlavOz on 28/03/2022 - 19:07
Last edited 28/03/2022 - 19:08

This is always a hot topic in Australia. We have such generous healthcare yet people still complain that they have to pay out of pocket for dental work.

While the prospect of having perfect teeth for "free" sounds appealing on paper, everyone seems to ignore the knock-on effects:

  • dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low

  • the wait times will be increased because more people will be lining up for their free whitening or to fix a lifetime of poor oral hygiene

  • the quality of care will inevitably decrease as more patients need to be served.

This is the exact same thing we see in hospitals. Nobody goes to the dentist for a mild toothache or because their child is teething. But people willfully clog up the ER thinking they're going to die because of a bad pimple because they know it doesn't cost them anything.

So in the end, the service costs more AND that cost is incurred more often as more people use the service.

Who pays for all that? It comes straight out of your taxes. So you're left paying MORE for an inferior service. It's not just poor economic reasoning, it's a sin of Ozbargain.

Health & Beauty Dental Medicare

Comments

          • random12 on 02/04/2022 - 19:14

            @SlavOz: Again, their job is not to make things 'cheap'. Their job is to get rid of the price gouging.

            Your damn right things will be cheaper when they come in with a flat list of charges that dentists can charge. If the dentists want to charge more, they can piss off.

            • SlavOz on 03/04/2022 - 01:16
              -1

              @random12: Why should a dentist not be able to charge what they feel is a worthy fee for their service? Better yet, what makes you entitled to tell them what they can or can't charge? Can I come to your job and force you to take a pay cut?

              Unless you have a degree in dentistry with a fundamental understanding of economics, your quasi-socialist control obsession has no place in this country.

  • Gradesbrah on 30/03/2022 - 13:33

    In contrast to the spending by the current feds I am happy to see our households tax cover some of this.

  • Cave Fire on 30/03/2022 - 13:34

    Yeah, it's pretty bad here compared to other countries. I think you can get wisdom teeth pulled in NZ for free on low income for example. Seems like an entrenched "monopoly" situation, with dentists being private and being able to set their prices. Seen a blog post a while back from an expat English teacher in Japan. They showed their receipt for dental fillings and it was $8 per filling (2011? or so). They have state run and private clinics, so there is competition.

  • nandystam on 30/03/2022 - 14:36

    SlavOz, I take it you are a picture of health?

    • CrowReally on 30/03/2022 - 15:23
      +2

      For clarification, we're talking physical health here. We know about the others.

      • Ughhh on 30/03/2022 - 16:52
        +1

        He has mentioned before that he's a weak skinny male who visits the ER often. So obviously he's more qualified than your doctor and he is the perfect model human that everyone should aim to be like.

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 23:22

      Apart from an unexplained gastro issue causing spontaneous ER visits, I'm quite healthy. Not an athlete by any means but I can run the 10kms in just under 50 minutes. My doctor actually told me it would be ideal if I gained a little weight as a safety net.

      So yeah not to brag but I'm probably healthier than the 67% of Australians who are medically overweight or obese

      Actually screw it it I'll brag. I'm very proud of that thanks.

      • Ughhh on 31/03/2022 - 10:14
        +1

        Apart from an unexplained gastro issue causing spontaneous ER visits,

        Take some personal responsibility and improve your diet and lifestyle. You've most likely have visited the ER more than any obese person I know.

        • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 11:29
          -3

          The day an obese person can run 10kms in any amount of time, maybe we can talk about health comparisons mate.

          I think you're making it painfully obvious you're one of the fatties in this country (statistically, it's a fair guess since I have a 67% chance of being right, probably even higher given your attitude).

          It's people like you who drag this country down. You're grotesque to look at and you take medical resources away from people who legitimately need a helping hand from something out of their control.

          • 01001101 01000010 on 01/04/2022 - 12:13

            @SlavOz: If you have worked hard on your health, by all means, be proud of it. Talking about the medical issues that can come from obesity issues is one thing, however, I think the leap to "grotesque to look at" moves the discussion into a very different arena and one that doesn't contribute positively to the discussion.

            • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 13:09
              -3

              @01001101 01000010: I disagree. Dan Andrews, Mark McGowan and the corporate media told me that publicly shaming people's health & lifestyle choices is the right thing to do. Just look at how they encouraged this vitriol against anti-vaxxers.

              Ergo I have been convinced by our cultural overlords. No sympathy for those who don't conform to my personal binary on health.

              Are we not doing that anymore? I wasn't aware that we stopped.

              • 01001101 01000010 on 01/04/2022 - 14:56

                @SlavOz: I might be over-reading your comment, but it sounds like you may have felt a sense of injustice directed around covid responses. It can be understandable that you then direct that at others and apply it to a broad range of related topics of conversation. I hope as time goes on that it changes. Apologies if I have over-thought it or missed the mark completely.

                • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 15:28
                  -1

                  @01001101 01000010: Great, thank you for understanding. Shaming people who refuse to get vaccinated was not a covid response - it was a political/cultural war waged by the elites who needed to compound their loneliness with a sense of community, unfortunately too many people (including on this forum) ate it right up.

                  I'm sorry, but when you treat people like shit in the media and even in legislation on the basis that they don't take care of their health (or at least your version of health) you lose any credibility when trying to claim we should have any sort of sympathy for people who wilfully choose to put their lives at risk and hog up hospital resources for their own pleasure. Punishing the unvaccinated (which goes on today) is one of the most shameful injustices of our time which future generations will not look back on fondly when they view the pandemic with pure medical data and without the cultural stigma attached to it.

                  If you think I'm being mean to fat people, imagine how it feels having the entire country do that to you and then stopping you from working or accessing basic services. If we did this to obese people (which would make more practical sense they are a huge burden on our healthcare system), there would be an international outcry.

          • SBOB on 01/04/2022 - 12:29
            +1

            @SlavOz:

            You're grotesque to look at and you take medical resources away from people who legitimately need a helping hand from something out of their control.

            One day, you're going to look back at your mentality and attitude at this point in your life and think
            'F$%k me, I was such an A$$.'

            • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 13:06
              -3

              @SBOB: Funny, since this is the exact same attitude people have towards unvaccinated individuals 😂😂

              All of a sudden you're back to being rational and compassionate about people's lifestyle choices.

              Good to have you back, but I do wonder where you've been for the last 2 years while the government made everyone believe that health is a binary choice that you either choose or you don't, and those who don't are your grave enemies.

          • Ughhh on 01/04/2022 - 13:10
            +2

            @SlavOz:

            I think you're making it painfully obvious you're one of the fatties in this country
            You're grotesque to look at

            Lmao. Wrong as always.
            Mate, I wear size 6/8 clothing, and have only been to the hospital once when I was 7 for asthma (which I no longer have). How much hospitals resources have you taken and wasted, if only you worked on yourself instead of judging everyone else.

            You're so full of hatred it's mentally unhealthy. The words you use, I wouldn't be surprised if someone developed depression or worse because of you. Please Seek help. Learn some empathy.

            • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 13:12
              -3

              @Ughhh: Really, so you weren't born in a hospital and used medical resources to be delivered?

              I sense a liar.

              • Ughhh on 01/04/2022 - 13:13
                +1

                @SlavOz: Didn't realise I needed to state the obvious…. Are you deliberately being obtuse?

              • Ughhh on 01/04/2022 - 13:27

                @SlavOz: Also, Australia probably needs more funding/support for depression and suicide awareness, to educate people like you.

                • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 13:37
                  -1

                  @Ughhh: As long as it's not Medicare funded. Frankly, the government sucks at improving mental health, which is OK since its not their job anyway.

                  The answer to the world's most devastating and complex problem will not be found in a government office by a bunch of bureaucrats lol

                  • Ughhh on 01/04/2022 - 13:45

                    @SlavOz: Some things do require government support and involvement, otherwise you have a bunch of people causing havoc and saying disgusting shit like "youre grotesque to look at" contributing to depression and suicide while thinking they're a a model human.

                    • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 15:32
                      -1

                      @Ughhh: Funny, since it was actually the government pushing most of the hate towards anti-vaxxers, which went far beyond saying nasty words about them but also stopping them from working, seeing their family, or living like a dignified human beings.

                      Where was all your sympathy when this was happening? Or does your heart only bleed for the groups that ABC says you should care about?

                      I'm legit curious. An attitude like yours could've been a great asset to the movements fighting against unjust treatment and medical discrimination of the unvaccinated. You should consider joining. If you're so worried about what petty insults might do to depression rates, imagine what greater damage can be done by legally and socially treating people like dirt. Surely that has a place at the table when discussing suicide and depression?

                      • Ughhh on 01/04/2022 - 18:10
                        -1

                        @SlavOz:

                        hate towards anti-vaxxers,

                        You realise the "hate" for anti vaxers existed way before covid right? People have seen the consequences the of measles due to the ill-informed anti vax movement by people with an obvious agenda. It's unfortunate that you've been convinced to be a pawn.

                        If After all this time, you still don't understand the difference between obesity and a Contagious virus and how they require different type of response and control measures….it would be a waste of time to explain to you.

                        First you made assumptions that I'm fat, then assumptions that I watch/do what ever ABC tells me? Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe other people get their info from sources like peer review journals, and/or has a background in science? I find it hilarious, that ABC is the only thing you think of, perhaps you've been watching to much ABC yourself?

                        A positive version of your attitude would have been great to fight disgusting behaviour like yours. You should be ashamed of yourself, comparing yourself to what your ancestors went through…is an insult to them. If you were bullied by "fatties", it's still no excuse for a grown ass man to have this childish behaviour. With a disgusting attitude like yours, it hard to even sympathise for what you go through.

                        Society can only be glad that you're not in any position or power to influence or implement your ridiculous logic.

                        A smart intelligent person recognises their strengths and weakness, when theyre an expert and when they're not, when to listen and when to talk.

                        • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 19:27
                          -1

                          @Ughhh:

                          You should be ashamed of yourself, comparing yourself to what your ancestors

                          Says the guy who compares inoculation schedules for babies to "get the jab or you can't work ever again!", pretending they're the exact same thing.

                          Ditto to comparing some unknown movement of people who were opposed to all vaccines to anyone who ever questions a corporate sponsored vaccine mandate with blatant commercial interests. These things are exactly the same, right?

                          I'm not talking about how to cure covid or obesity, I'm talking about how to minimise their impacts on society. If you think vaccine passports or other punishments are acceptable on the basis that unvaccinated are more likely to clog up the healthcare sector, then it's just outright dogshit to pretend the same strategy can't be used to discourage obesity for its obviously disproportionate impact on our hospitals. You're a hypocrite.

                          Please tell me more about your peer reviewed articles that say banning unvaccinated people from seeing their family or working is empirically and morally practical, or that making early 20s athletes get vaccinated provides any practical benefit relative to their risk of death. I'm calling bullshit on this upfront.

                          • Ughhh on 02/04/2022 - 09:36

                            @SlavOz: Maybe on the day you stop making assumptions and change your biased hypocritical attitude disgusting and hatred , it's worth taking you seriously.
                            I guess that's why theres entry requirements to study certain degrees at uni.

                            • SlavOz on 02/04/2022 - 11:04
                              -1

                              @Ughhh: So still ignoring the blatant hypocrisy and double standard in your own treatment of different groups based on their health.

                              All I've read throughout your rambling is "it's OK when I do it".

                              It actually says more about you than your weight problem.

  • Yotta00 on 30/03/2022 - 16:02

    This is the exact same thing we see in hospitals. Nobody goes to the dentist for a mild toothache or because their child is teething. But people willfully clog up the ER thinking they're going to die because of a bad pimple because they know it doesn't cost them anything.

    ED is different to a community setting like Dentistry. We have a thing called "triage", where you triage based on severity. Public dentists already exists and there is a long wait time because people need dental services. Imagine how good it would be if a mobile dentistry can bulk bill a whole nursing home and fix all nursing home residents teeth. We already have the same services for podiatry, Speech therapy, OT/PT, GP, etc.

  • Vita85 on 30/03/2022 - 16:19
    +1

    You accidentally put a "NOT" in the title. Click the edit button to remove it.

  • syousef on 30/03/2022 - 16:37
    +1

    Sorry I'm too busy laughing hysterically after you said dentists' prices are low.

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 18:03

      They're low enough for most people to wilfully pay them.

      • syousef on 30/03/2022 - 21:51

        It depends on what you want done, and what you earn. Fillings, sure. But serious dental work is unaffordable by all but the rich.

        • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 23:15

          You really think only rich people have crowns, extractions, dentures, or root canals?

          That's just statistically implausible. Most people you'll ever meet are average middle class earners yet they all have decent teeth.

          I think you're grossly overestimating how much dentists really cost. You can get all 4 wisdom teeth removed for around $2k. Yes it's a fair bit but certainly not out of reach for most people with a job.

          • Diji on 31/03/2022 - 09:56

            @SlavOz: SlavOz out here dropping two grand on dental work while "struggling with the cost of living".

          • syousef on 31/03/2022 - 09:58

            @SlavOz: Wisdom tooth extraction is hardly the most expensive work a person might need, and $2k will absolutely break people who are living paycheck to paycheck.

            I'm reading that the average cost of a root canal is $990 to $1,600. That's to try and save one tooth. And I can tell you from experience with family that they often fail. Implants cost a lot more pushing most people to opt for dentures instead.

            Check your privilege. Or don't. You'll find out as you get older how "affordable" dental care is.

            • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 11:25

              @syousef: Then get the tooth pulled out for $150. Problem solved.

              If you can't take care of your teeth, you don't deserve them, especially not on the taxpayer's dime.

              • syousef on 01/04/2022 - 13:54

                @SlavOz: Changing the goal posts hey? Nice.

                We've gone from "You really think only rich people have crowns, extractions, dentures, or root canals?" to "Then get the tooth pulled out for $150. Problem solved." and follow up with "If you can't take care of your teeth, you don't deserve them" as if any kind of problem with a person's teeth could only be due to their own neglect. You probably deserve to learn the hard way, but I won't wish it on anyone. Not even someone with such an extreme lack of empathy.

                Do you expect me to waste any further time talking to you on this?

                • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 15:15

                  @syousef: The goalposts haven't moved. Crowns and dentures are not too expensive for most people. Your argument was that there some people who simply can't afford them and it's not fair to let them suffer. I can resonate with that. That's why I previously said we could look at making extraction Medicare funded. This gets rid of the pain and prevents any serious issues, all for as little as $120 or less. It's a simple and cheap solution that solves both of our concerns.

                  Yet you seem to be against that. You're not interested in people getting treatment - you just want them to give them the premium option that allows them to keep their teeth in tact and looking great, all on the taxpayer's dime. That's no more logical than arguing that teeth whitening or fake lips should be taxpayer funded. There's a fine line between treating a serious medical issue and making people look good. One of those is the responsibility of a moral society, the other one is not.

                  • syousef on 01/04/2022 - 17:44

                    @SlavOz: A whole bunch of assumptions about what I want, based on nothing I said. Seriously, stop wasting my time.

      • random12 on 31/03/2022 - 04:03

        Low enough so we should let the price gouging continue.

        'You have only seen $250 for a filling? Well, you be happy that its not $1000 for a filling?' - great arguments.

  • blewey on 30/03/2022 - 17:51

    Most empathetic libertarian ozbargainer

  • Leanne59 on 30/03/2022 - 19:44

    "dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low" - Dentists actually are very expensive so not sure where you go. I don't think basics ie. filling at around $200 is a low price. Most people go to the dentist when they are in pain and then have to pay ridiculous prices for basic dental work as they don't have any other choice.

    • mrfuku on 30/03/2022 - 21:02

      The other choice would be to actually care about your oral health, and do proactive checkups to make sure things are healthy. Not really ideal if you neglect a issue until it causes pain, then try and get it fixed.

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 23:10
      -4

      lol how are people not getting this.

      Yes, dentists are expensive but they still rely on people paying out of pocket for treatment. For that to happen, they need to keep their prices at a reasonable point. Judging by the income of most dentists, they're doing pretty good at setting a competitive price as they're clearly getting a lot of customers.

      You'd have to be a complete dropkick to think that dentists just set whatever price they want. If they doubled their prices, most of them would go bankrupt as people would simply not bother going to the dentist anymore.

      They still have to keep their prices low enough for people to choose treatment over toothaches.

  • smartazz104 on 30/03/2022 - 21:54
    +1

    SlavOz out here doing the Discount Scott Morrison any% speedrun.

  • Oofy Doofy on 30/03/2022 - 23:02

    This link that was posted tonight by SBS is related to the discussion…

    https://youtu.be/EByhKkymICc

    The cost of medical care in the USA causing hospitals to under staff.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 31/03/2022 - 08:04
    +1

    Nah Dental should be covered under medicare

    Same with physio, occupational therapy, Speech therapy etc

    I do not see the point or benefit of private health care

    Health care is the 1 industry were the bottom line isnt the most important thing.

  • lazarski on 31/03/2022 - 15:56

    I like this one the most "dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low"

    Prices are low?

    There needs to be support for low income people to get dental work done. On a low salary or welfare you can't afford fillings let alone root canal or more major work.

    I hate this point the most "Who pays for all that? It comes straight out of your taxes" This is just a fallacy to hide the fact that you hate poor people.

    WE ARE ALREADY PAYING TAXES, THE TAXES ARE DISTRIBUTED TO PRIVATE COMPANIES, FOSSIL FUELS, LIBERAL PARTY DONORS, PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND HIGH INCOME EARNERS.

    The money should go to helping fellow Australians. I would rather have my tax help someone fix their teeth increase their confidence and help them find a job than a tax cut to someone earning over 300k

    • SlavOz on 31/03/2022 - 18:57
      -2

      On a low salary or welfare you can't afford fillings let alone root canal or more major work.

      So what if we just make extractions Medicare funded? Would you be happy with that?

      Why should you get a brand new tooth on the taxpayer's dime? If you're that concerned, then just get it pulled out so it doesn't cause any more issues.

      • MessyG on 31/03/2022 - 20:36
        +1

        Nah. Why the hell should the yachts, luxury properties and tax havens in the Caymans be paid for on my dime? You're doing the work of people who would never give you a look-in mate, you advocate for a group who would never let you see a cent of it. They tie up your self esteem in 'protecting the money' when what you're doing is protecting their money.

        Much prefer my tax dollars to look after everyone's teeth than some a-hole aged care CEO who gets tax-payer subsidised profits in the millions.

        • SlavOz on 01/04/2022 - 11:23

          Yes, we can both admit that corruption is bad and shouldn't happen. We can both admit that the Australian government is a society's cancer cell (although I would wager people on the right will admit this much more eagerly than people on the left who wrap themselves firmly around the government's finger for their care and approval).

          However, that is not an argument as to why dental care should be taxpayer funded. It's whataboutism.

  • MessyG on 31/03/2022 - 17:52

    Got it all sorted in a nice, circular thought bubble that is ring-fenced by unconscious knowledge limitations. You don't know what you don't know. Stay cool dude.

  • this is us on 31/03/2022 - 20:22
    +1

    Yeah… because who needs good dentition anyway? :|

  • Gnosh on 31/03/2022 - 23:02

    Brave to call yourself out like this.

    • smartazz104 on 01/04/2022 - 07:46

      Only because he's an anonymous nobody on the internet.

  • Pleasure Paulie on 01/04/2022 - 03:21

    I personally wish boob implants were covered by medicare. As a man, this would be a great result for all. Thanks for listening to my opinion.

  • frostee on 01/04/2022 - 08:55
    +2

    While I 100% agree with publicly funded healthcare including dental, I can't help but notice that the 'customer service' I receive from dentists is a lot better than any other medical profession IMO and the competitiveness, at least in my area, has kept the prices low. I'm just fortunate enough to be able afford it still.

  • hasher22 on 03/04/2022 - 15:23
    +1

    I think checkups and consultations once per year should be included. I think healthy teeth and gums should be the forefront of people's mouth health.

    The amount of people that don't go to the dentist because of money is crazy, a simple checkup and consultation would, I assume, prevent alot of long term teeth/mouth health issues.

    I think teeth cleaning should be subsidized by medicare.

    • Tech5 on 05/04/2022 - 11:01

      You can get a $99 checkup, clean and xrays in Sydney (ideally twice a year) so I doubt money is the concern. It is the apathy.

      Yes intervention is expensive. But people let it go that far. They would rather cure than prevent.

      • Oofy Doofy on 06/04/2022 - 14:11
        +1

        You're right. Ever since I started being more mindful of my teeth, and getting dental cleans semi annually, I've not had a single cavity for a long time.

  • Lord Fart Bucket on 05/04/2022 - 11:48
    +2

    I'm willing to ask Medicare to fund your lobotomy.

  • Eeples on 08/04/2022 - 00:19

    I think dentists charge uninsured ppl less than those with insurance,

    I think this results in less calls for universal dental cover.

  • AS2035 on 18/04/2022 - 16:17

    Yes it should.

  • MatrixM on 29/04/2022 - 15:04
    +2

    Yeah, no. Dental health has health effects on the entire body. People should be able to get free check-ups and basic care because if they don't things can get bad. Whether it be heart disease, disturbance of the gut biome, abscesses…It's the same thinking behind us getting bulk billed checkups at the GP and basic blood work.
    It's clear you don't understand the wider relevancies of dental health, the economic burden of disease, or how healthcare in general works and why it's set up this way..

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