End of Rent - Reasonable Expectations?

Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 09:45

Hey all,

Was the first tenant at a newly built house, rented for just over year, recently moved out at the end of the contract. Landlord is asking for large amount in addition to the bond, close to $10,000 in total. Going to tribunal soon.

There were some damages, and I won't downplay them: a tile with a chipped corner, 3 holes on the wall (each is approx. 2 dollar coin size), 1 burn spot on the carpet from ironing (approx. 1 dollar coin size), one location of burn mark from the pot on the benchtop, etc etc.

Basically, the amount the landlord is asking for is for replacing everything. Eg. replace that whole area of carpet, cut out the section of the wall to repair, etc.

We tried to send our own tradesman to quote and repair all the damage but was refused, presumably because they'd like to repair (replace) things their own way. The quote they showed as evidence for their claim is from a random no-name "furnishing company" with no information on google, and looking up the registered ABN address is just someone's residential home. Given that the rental agent taking us to tribunal for damages is actually just the landlord's father, so they're basically in cahoots, I wouldn't put it beyond them.

Question for the community: is it reasonable for a landlord to restore everything back to new (especially in this circumstance where we were the first tenant in a newly built house)? Or is repairing the damages (where possible) more reasonable? I'd love to hear from both tenants and landlords. I am actually a landlord myself as well, although I've never owned a brand new home and thus I'm not sure what is "reasonable" expectation for repairs.

Discuss away.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Xistn on 14/04/2022 - 09:50
    +21

    Best seek legal advice..

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 09:52
      +2

      I'm not here to seek advice regarding fighting this. I'm just here to pick people's brains regarding whether or not it's a reasonable expectation for landlords to replace even where repair is possible, knowing that it was a new house and everything.

      • payton on 14/04/2022 - 11:45
        +41

        is that dead mouse on your avatar a photo from inside your house

      • stringbean402 on 16/04/2022 - 06:20
        +27

        Here is what I think is reasonable here, in my opinion.

        • Holes in plasterboard, $2 coins size. Small patch job $100-150 each (being generous) including plaster and paint. Cutting out entire sections for this is ridiculous.

        • Carpet I don't consider this wear and tear, it is damage caused by lack of care, I think you should replace the whole carpet in the room, you cover 90% of cost.

        Carpets have a useful deprecation life of 10 years and patch jobs on carpet look like shit. Carpet cost obviously varies by room size and quality.

        In saying this if I was a landlord and planning on continuing to rent the property out I would personally just negotiate a small amount to help towards eventual replacement cost.

        • Chipped tile, if only 1 tile in 12 months I would consider this fair wear and tear. It's a normal part of owning a house to chip a tile here and there, that's why the builders leave you with spares. Even replacing the single tile should be less than $200 job, cheaper if you get a few done at once.

        • The bench top. Now I'm assuming this is a Laminex or similar bench. I don't consider a burn mark on a bench to be fair wear and tear, this is easily avoidable and caused by lack of care. I think the owner is entitled to have this replaced. Again cost will vary depending on the size of the bench, quality of the finish and the complexity of the job.

        I considering the above I have no idea how they came up with a 10k figure? I would be curious to see the breakdown of costs they have provided you. Regardless you should be given a chance to obtain quotes and have the problems fixed yourself, as long as this is done by a qualified tradesperson.

        What I think the owner is planning on doing here is just fixing the couple of small holes in the wall and pocketing the rest of the cash and not fixing the other small issues. It's a rental and more damage is going to occur over time.

        • smallfolk on 17/04/2022 - 21:34
          +2

          unless the tile is on an outside balcony, in which case it could easily cost thousands to replace with waterproof membrane replacement to consider. In any case OP sounds like a feral pig to cause so much damage in a single year (and that's only what they considered to be fair damage)

    • ForkSnorter on 22/04/2022 - 08:54
      -4

      My opinion: While it may be annoying that one's brand new house has gotten a few avoidable damages in only one year, the reality is that anyone who bought a house a year ago has increased their wealth (equity) by tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars (in some case millions of dollars), just from the increase in house prices over that period. These damages are a drop in the ocean compared to this increase in value and compared to the money this landlord will make from continuing to rent the house for the next few years. The reality is, the next tenant won't notice the cheap repair jobs to fix these damages, and they won't care. The reality is, rented houses (or even non-rented houses) deteriorate over time from small damages and wear-and-tear.

      This landlord is a horrible person with a stick up somewhere.

  • mbck on 14/04/2022 - 09:50
    +16

    Tribunal is mediation. You can discuss/argue your views, they will discuss/argue theirs. The tribunal will come up with a just and fair solution.

    I doubt they'd get 10k. If possible try ro get your own quote for an assessment and fix from a reputable company that will add weight to your point. Eg, I'd imagine they need to replace the whole carpet, since they can't just take that burnt patch out and put a new patch on, that'd look weird->affects future price.

    Have it in writing that they're intentially not allowing you to see and assess the damage.

    I hope those you describe are the only damage and you're not downplaying it.

    Personally, I'd be p1ssed too. Considering it's only 1 year old and there are that many damages

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 09:55
      +2

      I didn't go into much details about the damages because I'd obviously be biased. All I would say is that their quoted number is for basically replacing/restoring everything, even when we've consulted tradespeople that have mentioned that these things are repairable. Just here to see what landlords/tenants of OzB think about reasonable expectations for replacement/repair.

      • CrowReally on 14/04/2022 - 09:59
        +16

        Person 1 says it's all reasonable and you'll have to pay the lot.

        Person 2 says it's not at all reasonable and you won't have to pay nearly all that.

        Thanks for shopping opinions at OzBargain! Let us know how the tribunal goes.

        • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 10:01

          Love a good debate. Will let y’all know ;)

        • CrowReally on 14/04/2022 - 10:02
          +3

          That was a joke answer, my real answer is as follows

          Tile: Reasonable, 70% of this amount will be paid.

          Wall holes: Unreasonable, 34.6% of this amount will be paid.

          Carpet burn: Reasonable, 80% + X, where X is the third largest perfect number divided by your age.

          Pot: Price available on enquiry, appointment required.

      • reactor-au on 15/04/2022 - 08:21
        +9

        If I rent a place with an odd patch in the benchtops, carpet, tiles, walls, guess I'll know who the previous tenant was.

        Seriously, you expect them to go that route on a 1 year old house?

        • Dr Fruit on 15/04/2022 - 23:28

          I would not wish for even my worse enemies to rent that place. As much support as there is for landlords on this forum, I can pretty confidently say that this landlord in particular won't bat an eye to take your money. Even if you are as perfect a tenant as many here seem to think they are/can be.

          • geoffs87 on 16/04/2022 - 11:32
            +1

            @Dr Fruit: Are you suggesting landlords (who are in the business of making money) give tenants stuff for free? And if they don’t, are therefore a bad landlord? Eek

            • Dr Fruit on 16/04/2022 - 11:37

              @geoffs87: If you read my post, I mentioned I myself am a landlord too. I’m obviously not suggesting that.

              What I meant is, if there ever was a scummy landlord/agent who’d do anything to get more money out of you (on top of the agreed rent/reasonable repair costs), this is the one.

          • this is us on 18/04/2022 - 01:43
            +4

            @Dr Fruit: With all due respect, you don't seem to have tried very hard to be the perfect tenant if you caused all those damages in 12 months. And I am a very tenant-biased person…

            Yes, the system is annoying, landlords are generally bad, agents are generally worse, but careless tenants completely undermine my arguments to defend tenants.

            Anyway, I do think it's reasonable to allow you to do your own quote but I wouldn't accept a quote to repair the carpet if that's not actually repairable. No idea where the 10k is coming from, and it seems to be too much, but we don't really know what the damages are and what they are trying to charge.

    • Scantu on 14/04/2022 - 10:44
      +5

      Tribunal is very specifically not mediation - they actually try to have you mediate before you get to the tribunal stage

  • apple2016 on 14/04/2022 - 09:55
    +56

    Thats a lot of damage to a new house in just a year!…

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 09:57

      Again, not dodging responsibility or anything. Did offer to fix them up by trasdespeople but was refused.

      • Quantumcat on 14/04/2022 - 10:04
        +103

        Would have been a better idea to get them fixed before the final inspection

        • TilacVIP on 15/04/2022 - 09:19

          Can you actually do repairs yourself without notifying the Landlord first?

          I thought any damage done by a tenant had to be disclosed?

          • JIMB0 on 15/04/2022 - 11:22
            +9

            @TilacVIP: Could've just patched it up so it wasn't noticeable.

          • sir-screwball on 15/04/2022 - 20:00
            +7

            @TilacVIP: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha get fked are you serious? My dog once got accidentally locked in a back bedroom for 8 hours while I was at work and dug through the carpet, pulled it back entirely from the door, scratched a hole in the door, scratched the walls through the gyprock, he absolutely demolished this room and I fixed it all myself for less than 200 dollars. I don't care if it is a rule, I would strongly encourage any tenant to get any damage repaired privately and save yourself a huge headache.

            • sakurashu on 17/04/2022 - 11:45
              -2

              @sir-screwball: ^ Glad I'm not a landlord and if I was I wouldn't rent to people with dogs

              • sir-screwball on 17/04/2022 - 19:23
                +1

                @sakurashu: Fair play to you. That being said, it's never the dogs fault. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners. That day, I was a bad owner.

            • TilacVIP on 18/04/2022 - 08:36
              -3

              @sir-screwball: How bout you go getfked you fkin re-td, ha????

          • smallfolk on 17/04/2022 - 21:09

            @TilacVIP: I doubt a tradie would touch it

      • drfuzzy on 15/04/2022 - 15:41
        +6

        Why didn't you already have them fixed before the final inspection? The meaning of the word final offers a clue.

      • striker5950 on 17/04/2022 - 16:57
        +2

        you seem like an annoying tenant, why didn't you use that smart brain to fix the issues before you bring in the inspection?

  • cashless on 14/04/2022 - 10:00
    +29

    Newly built house? That much damage? Sounds like a good party.
    Would love to know what the "etc etc." is that you don't mention - could be a long list for all we know.
    If it was my new house I'd be pretty pissed off and want it restored "as was".
    $10k sounds like a lot, but if the kitchen worktop needs repair/replace, that could be pricey (Granite? Caeserstone? MDF?)
    Without context and an itemised list of the damage, no one here can help.
    Maybe knock-down rebuild;)

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 10:10
      -2

      The etc etc is really the more contentious parts - the damages that I didn’t mention because I’m biased toward denying that it’s our fault. The ones I mentioned are ones I’m not disputing.

      But if you must know, the landlord says due to our neglect/lack of cleaning, there is mould presence in all the caulkings (both bathrooms, sinks in the kitchen) that need to be all removed and recaulked. The house is actually not a pit and we kept it clean - I wasn’t even aware and I’d say given the location it’s probably just moisture? and water damage to all doors of the property (front door, both bathroom doors). I’m not even sure how to water damage doors. Again, most likely a moisture thing that’s due to design/material?

      • Quantumcat on 14/04/2022 - 11:28
        +4

        I don't think mould would be your fault in the kitchen. Mould comes from moisture not uncleanliness. The bathroom they might have an argument, if you didn't use the exhaust fan when you showered.

        If you saw the mould you should have got it cleaned off before the final inspection - it won't be your problem when it grows back a few months later. Even if it isn't your fault it grew it is still better to avoid giving the real estate any ammunition

      • Switchblade88 on 14/04/2022 - 16:43
        +12

        mould presence in all the caulkings

        On a brand new build? That implies a bad build with internal leakage (given that wet areas are always the primary cause of fault with new build houses).

        Certainly not likely to be at fault of tenant, and tribunal should agree.

        • Euphemistic on 15/04/2022 - 13:10
          +6

          With the weather we’ve had on the east coast I’m not surprised there’s mould around.

      • wobblydrow on 15/04/2022 - 20:32

        Mould on caulk generally is caused by a build up of (natural) soap which then the mould grows on. Wet area silicones and acrylics have a mouldicide added which will protect mould from growing on the surface for a period of time (typically 1-2 years though is slowly leached out by water running over surface). If you leave it with soap or other contaminaants on, then the mould grows on that and overwhelmes the mouldicide designed to protect the sealant surface. Sealants with just water on will generally not grow any mould for quite a long time (excluding really moist areas that are not ventilated)

      • 2024 on 15/04/2022 - 23:21
        +1

        Did you ever air out the rooms? Bathroom? Open a few windows?

        • Dr Fruit on 15/04/2022 - 23:24

          Bathroom fans come on when lights are turned on, so definitely runs when we use it. Open windows to air out the place often. Considering the mould is in all the wet areas + water damage to the doors that we have absolutely no idea about, I really don't think it was an issue of us not ever ventilating the place.

          • ProlapsedHeinous on 17/04/2022 - 17:03

            @Dr Fruit: I wonder if water damage on doors is due to painters painting door without removing from hinges and thus not painting/sealing the top and bottoms… if the doors were even painted at all, which is a problem in itself if it's a door to a wet area.

      • stringbean402 on 16/04/2022 - 06:28
        +1

        I have seen this in MDF doors. The painters never bother to paint the top or the bottom of the doors, the bottoms usually swell a little after years of mopping, I had this in my old rental after 5+ years. I just quickly ran a sander over the edge back to smooth and repainted the door.

        However in my opinion you should be able to mop near a door and this is just laziness of the painters not sealing the door properly.

  • AndyC1 on 14/04/2022 - 10:07
    +15

    OP admits to damages, but moves out without trying to fix them or get quotes to fix them…..And then does not like the repair quote the landlord got and wants access after moving out to fix things.

    Op should have fixed the damage before moving out of the house that was brand new when OP moved in!!!!

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 10:12
      -7

      The circumstances surrounding our moving out was… also contentious. All I can say was that there was limited opportunity to do so before hastily leaving.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 14/04/2022 - 10:36
        +27

        Not believing that for a second. All the damage didn't occur the week before you moved out. I daresay you had pleeeenty of opportunity before this.

        • Quantumcat on 14/04/2022 - 11:30
          +7

          And if you leave with no notice that's also pretty bad

          • Switchblade88 on 14/04/2022 - 16:45

            @Quantumcat: As per OP:

            recently moved out at the end of the contract

            Seems like Dr Fruit didn't want to leave but landlord refused to consider renewing the lease. Not the OP's fault for no notice

            • Quantumcat on 14/04/2022 - 16:55

              @Switchblade88: True, other comments said he was asked to leave as they wanted to move back in. He would have got a lot of notice. I hadn't seen those yet

              • Switchblade88 on 14/04/2022 - 17:31

                @Quantumcat: If the contract was up though, the landlord doesn't have to give the classic 90 days' notice like with a periodic/ongoing tenancy.

                Neither party would be at fault if this was the case, just leaving the original issue of damages for the tribunal to sort out.

              • techlead on 15/04/2022 - 22:15

                @Quantumcat: Yea, its like 90 days notices in NSW I think. There should be plenty of notice.

  • Davo1111 on 14/04/2022 - 10:07
    +2

    Let us know how mediation goes.

    tbh nobody has a crystal ball.

  • doctordaze on 14/04/2022 - 10:10
    +18

    Current landlord, ex tenant and ex property manager here.

    It's reasonable to the landlord to claim 100% of REPAIR costs. However, if not repairable such as a benchtop burn or carpet burn then a % of the REPLACEMENT costs in line with the age of the items being replaced. i.e - if an item was 1 year old with a life expectancy of 20 years (such as a benchtop for example) then the tenant should pay 95% of the replacement cost. There is a floor to his method of calculation as there is with all depreciation (and my calculations are simplified). This would be limited to reasonable replacement - such as carpet replacement in 1 room, not the whole house.

    Agree with the above re: their tradesperson, you should have reasonable opportunity to arrange repairs yourself. I stress the word "reasonable". If you were given opportunity and didn't take prompt action it's fair for the landlord to proceed without you as if the property can't be re-let until repairs are completed then time is costing them money. Also, if it has been relet tenant access with a non-approved tradespeople/yourself might not be reasonable. In short, this might work out well for you if you're able to obtain approximations from professional repairers for lower amounts if you end up at small claims/tribunal.

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 10:21
      -4

      Understood, will keep pursuing sending our own licensed tradesperson. I really think that's a non-concern about re-letting because we actually moved out due to the landlord wanting to move back in themselves. Then a bit later we got hit with this claim from the landlord's father (ie the "property manager").

      • Some Human on 14/04/2022 - 10:52
        +10

        That’s just what they told you to get you out of the house after seeing the condition it was in. You’ll probably see it for lease again after the repairs are done.

      • Quantumcat on 14/04/2022 - 11:31
        +2

        If they wanted to move in then you would have got like 12 weeks notice or whatever is required in your state

  • brendanm on 14/04/2022 - 10:18
    +8

    Reasonable expectation is that they should get a house back without the (significant) damage that you have caused in just 1 year.

  • AustriaBargain on 14/04/2022 - 10:36
    +1

    I wouldn't want to rent a place with a big burn mark in the bench top, or holes in the wall, or carpet. Presumably all of this stuff was brand new, just 12 months old at the end of your lease.

  • soan papdi on 14/04/2022 - 10:38
    +1

    The only time I damaged a rental property was leaving a 10-12cm wide iron burn mark on the carpet. On exit, the agent wanted $500 to replace the carpet, I bargained down to $300. However I am sure, the carpet wasn't replaced at all and it wasn't worth following up for $300.

    With more significant damage like this, I would seek legal advice from https://www.tenants.org.au/ as a start. You should pay for repairs, but get the quote in writing and some kind of evidence that they have actually fixed the problems instead of just swallowing the cash. Not sure how practical it is.

    • mountaineer on 15/04/2022 - 18:54
      +8

      It is a 'damage" and I don't think the landlord has any obligation to replace or repair after receiving the money. It is their property after all. They can easily argue they will do it later, or through other means. The landlord can also argue they would lower the rent to compensate future tenant for these imperfections. In short, you caused damages, you compensate it. Demanding 'evidence' of actual repair is just for your mental revenge. Lesson learnt, treat the rental property better than your own.

      • soan papdi on 19/04/2022 - 15:06

        They can easily argue they will do it later, or through other means. The landlord can also argue they would lower the rent to compensate future tenant for these imperfections.

        No landlord will lower rent for the next tenant given the damage, especially a few holes in the wall and even moreso given the acute shortage in rental properties.

        In short, you caused damages, you compensate it.

        I already did. Nowhere did I imply I won't pay for damages.

        Lesson learnt, treat the rental property better than your own.

        I rented for over 15 years and only had to pay damages once. Mistakes happen. No need to degrade people for mistakes.

        Demanding 'evidence' of actual repair is just for your mental revenge.

        No, it is unethical on the landlord's part to take money for a certain purpose and use it elsewhere. I sure as hell don't want to fund their overseas holiday.

  • dogboy on 14/04/2022 - 11:27
    +2

    Repair is reasonable in this situation as houses have wear and tear over time. Get your own quotes and push for that in mediation.

  • freefall101 on 14/04/2022 - 12:06
    +4

    is it reasonable for a landlord to restore everything back to new

    Yes. You're a landlord, you should know that it is reasonable to bring it back to the condition it was in when you moved in. I feel like I'm piling on, but I hope you seriously learned a good lesson about renting with this. Report damage when it's done, make efforts to repair any damage you did, don't just walk out and hope for the best.

    You need to get some hard facts on your side. Doesn't matter that the company that issued the quote sounds dodgy if you have no counter to the price being unreasonable, doesn't matter that it could be repaired to a lower standard just because it saves you money, really doesn't matter that the landlord and rental agent are family (because they're always in cahoots, that's a given). Make sure you have their denial to let you in to get your own quote in writing, make sure you have whatever quotes or reasonable pricing for fixing from a reputable repair person that you can get too. You need to show there's an actual problem with the quote - pricing of carpet, pricing of labour, cleaning costs.

    • Vote for Pedro on 15/04/2022 - 13:10
      +7

      you should know that it is reasonable to bring it back to the condition it was in when you moved in.

      Almost correct but not quite. Reasonable wear and tear is acceptable. So it absolutely doesn’t have to be returned to condition when a tenant moved in.

      There’s also depreciation. If carpet is 10 yrs old, it doesn’t have to be paid by the tenant for repairs as it’s already been deprecated and received its meaningful life tax deductible.

      https://eats.org.au/sites/default/files/Factsheets/Bond2b-de…

      • freefall101 on 15/04/2022 - 18:35
        +1

        While true, we’re talking about a brand new house that OP put holes in after 12 months, not 10 year old carpet having the wear and tear of 10 years.

        • Vote for Pedro on 15/04/2022 - 19:34
          +4

          10% depreciation so 10% wear and tear is reasonable

  • Euphemistic on 14/04/2022 - 13:05
    +1

    Lesson learnt: don’t rent a new house.

    Lesson from the past: don’t completely paint a house before renting it out. It’ll need doing again if you don’t get a great tenant. Good tenants can still make the walls.

    • JimB on 17/04/2022 - 09:06
      +1

      I’ve painted a very tired house. The additional rent would cover the cost of painting over 5 years.

      Plus you get better tenants too.

      I’ve also replaced a tired kitchen too. Would also get better rent. I wouldn’t get 2 pac in future.

      Laminate and stone benchtop is more than sufficient.

  • Ocker on 14/04/2022 - 13:20
    +12

    Sounds like the perfect tenant (not)

      • cowiie on 15/04/2022 - 13:28
        +14

        So you chipped the tile and made holes in the wall during move in, had a year to repair it but didn’t, and now you’re saying it’s too expensive? They should also add in loss of rent whilst undertaking repairs to your bill.

      • techlead on 15/04/2022 - 22:17
        +5

        If its the movers' fault, you could have pursued them for damages. They should have insurance for these kind of things.

  • tsunamisurfer on 14/04/2022 - 13:46
    +5

    Yes the charges are reasonable.

    You are a landlord, you hand a brand spanking new house to a tenant who rewards you with iron marks on the carpet (WTF), 3 holes in the wall and burn marks on the bench top.

    That is not even close to wear and tear.

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 17:52
      -1

      We are not disputing the fact that there are damages. I said we are offering to fix them with a licensed tradesperson, but was refused because the landlord wants to literally replace everything using a questionable tradesperson, potentially pocketing money.

  • Keplaffintech on 14/04/2022 - 13:47
    +4

    The holes are like 10 mins to fix. One box of Spakfilla and a sample pot of matching paint. At least get those done prior to an inspection.

  • cupcake on 14/04/2022 - 14:13
    +2

    It's possible to do that much damage. My sister's rental property had $20,000 worth of damage but the insurance company wouldn't replace her floorboards even though they were newly laid before the tenant moved in. They stated it was general wear and tear even if it was damaged. She had to take them to court for two months unpaid rent and kick them out. Strange because they had paid rent for six months, and then started damaging everything after their eviction notice.
    I understand the landlord has relatives wanting money to do the repairs and inflating the quotes but you should speak to the real estate manager looking after the rentals.

    • Dr Fruit on 14/04/2022 - 18:03
      +1

      Possible but we really didn’t. The licensed tradesman, based on the picture, quoted us under $2k. Even if that was conservative, I don’t see how it would be anywhere close to the $10k we’re being asked for.

  • garetz on 14/04/2022 - 14:15
    +4

    Why didnt you get this stuff fixed before moving out ? Wouldn't have cost much.

  • cerealJay on 14/04/2022 - 15:16
    +5

    1 burn spot on the carpet from ironing (approx. 1 dollar coin size)

    You used the floor as ironing board? What sort of iron leaves a small round burn spot?

    burn mark from the pot on the benchtop

    Rookie error. Never let children or crackheads use the stove unsupervised.

    You mentioned mould and water damage. Hard to imagine in just one year, in a new house that mould damage would require re-grouting and repair.

    Presuming your bond was around $1500? It seems unlikely the repairs would cost more. Sounds like they are trying to get more money, so they can "upgrade" things that may not have been done properly in the first place. Such as inadequate bathroom exhaust van or poor quality seals around kitchen sink etc.

    I rented a place once where the owner decided to give us a new kitchen. Great! Only problem is they used a friend to do the job. He was not experienced, and used the cheapest possible materials. I never thought it possible to stuff up a kitchen sink installation, but that's what happened. The new sink had a design issue where water would pool in the middle between the two sinks. He installed two single sinks for some reason, instead of a one-piece double sink. So there was a small gap to the bench between each sink. Really stupid idea, and water would easily find its way in the gap, dripping onto floor. I now live in a place with a proper one-piece double sink!

    • JimB on 17/04/2022 - 08:44

      I’ve seen 2 separate sinks on a stone benchtop (2 cut outs)

      This sounds like 2 seperate sinks with 1 cutout?

      • ProlapsedHeinous on 17/04/2022 - 17:09

        I don't think stone would sag over time like say melamine or similar would.

  • upended on 14/04/2022 - 15:24
    +3

    Bear in mind that even after patching up the (significantly big) holes, the entire wall needs to be painted. You cannot just apply paint over the repairs as the paint will appear patchy.

    cut out the section of the wall to repair

    My investment property (newly built at the time) was heavily damaged when the tenant left, including massive holes in the walls. I could not just patch these up, so had to replace big sections of the impacted walls.

    Not sure what else is happening in your case, but best to ask them to show you the repairs they have been quoted.

  • Waltervp on 15/04/2022 - 08:35

    Sounds like they need to use their landlord insurance. Isn't that what is for? The insurance can follow up with you. If it is clear these are accidents, like the pot and iron mark,… I'm not sure what the holes in the wall were about but you should fix those with a plasterer yourself perhaps.

    Renting out a property always results in damage IMHO, and some tenants are worse than others. As long as it is clear they didn't do things on purpose and it looks like they made a good effort to clean and fix, then a reasonable landlord would accept the damage, query it, ask for it to be fixed, accept it and maybe claim it. I know it's not acceptable but I'm afraid it's the reality for most people. I've rented out a new house and had multiple issues like the pot marks, which is very disappointing, but I won't replace the kitchen bench for it!!! It's a rental and not a show house.

    Also, tenants can't get insurance themselves for these thing and they can't be expected to pay huge amounts for accidental damage. Even when they break a window I would claim that on insurance if it was clearly an accident.

    Probably not a bad idea if tenants could get an insurance policy for accidental damage!!! Don't think that product exists yet.

    Vote 1 Wally lol.

    • Woody982 on 15/04/2022 - 08:57
      +5

      You wouldn't expect your brand new house to get all these holes and burn marks (including the benchtop) in ONE year. I sure as he'll would be passed.

      Also why would you pay for the tenants breaking a window? I was a tenant, till about half a year ago and I would fully expect to pay for a window that I broke to be replaced??

    • Euphemistic on 15/04/2022 - 13:13
      +2

      Wont the insurer attempt to get their money back from the tenant?

  • Brainwhacker on 15/04/2022 - 11:55

    Get two quotes from maintenance businesses to support your claim, don’t see why you cannot be given the option to repair /make good the damages. The order may need to come from the tribunal.

  • greatlamp on 15/04/2022 - 13:07
    +3

    Sounds like you deserve to pay thise reasonable charges, but most likely the tenant friendly courts will make the owner take on the costs of your negligence. It isn't only the cost of the repair, but the lost rent, and the inconvenience of organising all these repairs on what should be a brand new home.

    Honestly I don't think it is reasonable at all to cause that much damage in a year, you wouldn't treat your own house like that

  • harrywwc on 15/04/2022 - 15:26
    +2

    any landlord that expects a place to be in "brand new" condition after renting it for any time is nuts.

    for a start, that's what the tax benefits w.r.t. 'depreciation' are about.

    sure, things like the holes in the walls should be rectified - although, there is also allowance now (I believe) for 'reasonable' accommodation for holes such as hanging pictures and other things to make a house a 'home'.

    damage to carpet / flooring - maybe it needs to be repaired / replaced if the damage is 'dangerous' - e.g. a tripping hazard.

    If I were your landlord, I would have expected some 'wear and tear', so, the tile corner chip probably counts (depends where and how big a 'chip'), the holes in the wall, maybe some spakfilla and paint and done (perhaps you could have done that before the final inspection?) The burn mark in the carpet - that's one I would struggle with a bit, it borders on carelessness - "not our carpet, don't care".

    • FlyingMiffy on 15/04/2022 - 16:41

      I've had two rental properties end up with burnt marks on carpet because of an iron… it's not borderline… it just is.

  • drfuzzy on 15/04/2022 - 15:45
    +1

    I'm the landlord of a brand new high end house so I am biased. There needs to be some give and take. The tribunal will ensure there is. You are responsible for the cost of recarpeting the room (not whole house to match), repair of the holes and repainting the one wall. The other claims I'm less sure. Does the agent have landlord insurance? If so, you maybe more screwed than if they don't.

    • drfuzzy on 15/04/2022 - 15:46

      Sadly you will get a very bad rental reference as cause of the inconvenience. I hope you are moving out to purchase your own place.

    • drfuzzy on 15/04/2022 - 15:49
      +2

      I've seen tenants think the landlord can just claim for the damage on their insurance and everyone is happy.
      Not true… the insurer is likely to pay then chase the tenant for the cost…. which may be inflated. By this point it is the tenants problem to fight with the insurer.

  • FlyingMiffy on 15/04/2022 - 16:36
    +2

    OPs issue will be that the property was new and so the usual arguments for wear and year won't be in his favor. For instance, carpet would be reasonably expected to last 5-7 years and for the damage to be within 12 months, I won't be surprised if the tribunal deems it fair to replace new. Also, that's alot of damage for 12 months… that list isn't going to paint the OP as having taken reasonable care for the property. The only upside is that the landlord hasn't done themselves any good by not maintaining some transparency on trade quotes. I reckon OP will come out paying something close to 70-80%% of the landlords claims…

    • sir-screwball on 15/04/2022 - 22:54
      +1

      How much experience do you have with rental mediation? The owner will not get anywhere near that. They're very likely to force the real estate/landlord to allow the tenant his own tradesperson to get quotes for repair and they'll award an average of the quotes provided which will result in far less than half.

  • perthhunter on 15/04/2022 - 16:46

    I'd suggest contacting the tenancy advocacy group in your State (e.g. Tenancy WA in WA).
    In WA, they can assist with the tribunal and can be a nightmare for landlords.

  • AlanHB on 15/04/2022 - 16:59
    +2

    Without knowing anything more, it kinda seems like the mentioned damages could be if you used pro guys:

    3 holes in wall, plaster and paint = $500
    Replacement of part of carpet = $500
    Removal/replacement of tile = $500
    Benchtop damage = ??? Depends on a lot of different factors, could be very pricey.

    I don't really get why you didn't take steps to fix these while you were still in the house, but as you didn't you are now at the mercy of the tribunal.

  • Bills22 on 15/04/2022 - 17:27
    +2

    The amount quoted is excessive. I suggest getting your own quote and go from there. If anything, the quote should have been provided through the Property Manager - why are they not involved or am I missing some details?

    Reasonable expectations - it's a brand new apartment so it's hard to argue fair wear and tear. This is damage. Understand that it it may be accidentally but this should have been openly discussed with the Property Manager and fixed prior to end of lease.

  • nikey2k27 on 15/04/2022 - 18:37

    hole are easy fix carpert will need to be replace beach top will partly need to be replace keen to see photo if they sent them. this OZ bargain court https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krcp0J_VRvU

  • paloverde88 on 15/04/2022 - 19:21
    +3

    these do not sound like normal wear and tear what is the context of this happening in the first place esp since it is a new place. Also you should count yourself lucky you will not be listed in the bad tenant database. I just cannot imagine me renting a new place and causing these damages.

    • Dr Fruit on 15/04/2022 - 21:09

      At no point am I arguing that these are wear and tear. I'm offering to fix these and was refused. And I know my description doesn't paint us in a good light but I think if most of the people piling onto me in this thread actually saw the state of the house when we left, they'd agree that it was in generally good shape. The house was kept clean and in good order.

      As I mentioned, I'm a landlord myself (my property is fairly new under 5 years old as well) so I actually have been on both sides of the struggle. But every single tenant of mine has invariably broken something, left some holes in the wall, broke some appliances and cabinets, broke the glass, stained the carpet/walls, etc etc. And I have never once asked any tenant for $10k, even the worst of the worst.

      I'm not sure if I'm "lucky" in any sense of the word. It would be wildly improper for the landlord to even consider trying to report this to the "bad" tenant register?

      • drfuzzy on 16/04/2022 - 09:41

        How many of your rentals are brand new?

  • sir-screwball on 15/04/2022 - 20:12
    +6

    Why is everyone getting so hung up on the damage and ignoring the question?

    OP: No, what the landlord is doing is not going to work. The mediator is going to 100% tell them to let your guy quote and will deny them the demand of having all new items installed. If you get 2 or 3 quotes from tradies the mediator will award the landlord the average of the three, most likely.

    What the landlord is doing is super common. They have their "preferred" people, who all coincidentally charge ridiculous amounts of money for simple repairs. It won't hold up in mediation and if you continue to hold the line I suspect they will cave and let your guy come and do it eventually as they should know as experienced agents that their argument wont hold water. I suspect they just scare people into negotiating a lower amount (which is still absolutely ludicrous pricing anyway) before mediation.

    I left a place once and the landlord told me that their bond cleaner would not be available until a week later and I just said "no problems I'll do it myself no need for your bond cleaner" and they lost it, demanded per the lease I use their cleaner, I asked how much and it was $1500 for a "full service" clean with all these things that weren't covered like the oven and soap residue on the shower screen etc.

    I told them I wouldn't use their cleaner and we could go to mediation if they wanted to argue the point. Eventually they relented, allowed me to clean it myself and got my bond back.

    The mediator will not side with these clowns. They will not get 10k out of you. Hold firm.

    • Dr Fruit on 15/04/2022 - 20:50
      +3

      I kept emphasizing that I'm not here to discuss the damages. As much as I'd like to defend myself. My question is whether or not the landlord is being reasonable in their pursuit of all this.

      Thanks for the advice. Read my comments below as well.

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