Tenant Has Trashed The Property, What Are My Options?

webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:21
Last edited 21/05/2022 - 11:23

I had the misfortune of renting to a couple who has caused a lot of trouble. Here are the issues

1. Unpaid rent: About 11 weeks of unpaid rent. I was a bit lenient as they said they just had a baby. They made excuses for months with occasional payments and accumulated 6 weeks of rent. At that point they refused to pay. Husband said he is not living there anymore, so he won't pay. Wife said she has given money to the husband and she can't pay anymore as she is not working. I gave 2 weeks notice to vacate the property, they took another 2 weeks making excuses before handing over the keys. They released the bond that covered 4 weeks of rent, so 7 weeks of unpaid rent now.

2. Things left behind: They have not taken everything out of the property. Lots of small items + a mattress, dressing table, a large trailer, 2 large tables, chairs, bbq machine, lots of construction items, and many other items. I proposed to dispose the items, they denied. I gave 2 weeks of notice as per the law required. They scheduled times to pick up the items, and so far did not came (made more excuses).

3. Damages: They installed a laundry machine, which leaked. Instead of fixing it or letting me know, they kept as it is. Wife's excuse is that the husband promised to fix it. Now it has caused moulds in all the walls and skirting of the laundry place and its door. I don't know how much it will cost to repair this.

They removed the carpet in the large storage shed without asking me. The carpet was not in the best shape, but now it has been kept outside for god knows how long, so it is unusable now.

They had a cat without permission. And chickens in the backyard (without permission). They left chicken poops all over the backyard deck.

4. Unkept premise: They never cut the grass in the backyard and part of the front yard. It is about my waist high and I am cutting it for the past two days.

My Options:

Insurance: I have landlord insurance for damage, but not for rental loss. The excess amount is 3000$, so not worth it, I guess.

VCAT: It probably will take few thousands of dollars to bring the property to a liveable state. I plan to take them to VCAT to recover my loss. I don't know how much I can recover, so I am planning to do the works myself as much as possible. This is causing a lot of stress to me. Can I claim my own hours of work and seek compensation in VCAT?

This is a new situation to me. Can anyone please share their opinion or experience is related matters? Do you think VCAT really is helpful in such situation? What happens if the tenant refuse/unable to pay in VCAT?

This is a house I used to live and renovated it, only moved out due to change of job location. What makes me sad is that for me this is my house, where they took it as a temporary shelter and moved on, and took advantages of my good gestures.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • bleukreuz on 21/05/2022 - 12:20
    +2

    You should get a lawyer's advice. I'm sure there's a legal process you can pursue. As far as I know you can put a "lien" on their belongings to recoup some of the damages and overdue rents. Perhaps getting the police involved would be beneficial if it counts as property damage?

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:22

      Thanks. Their items are not worth 100-200 dollars, just a lot of hassle for me to dispose (which I cannot do for 14 days, so loss of more rent). I will consider legal advice.

  • thestig on 21/05/2022 - 12:24
    +39

    It sounds like you've taken a risk to save money and it hasn't paid off. You're saving on fees by not having a property manager, you're saving on insurance premiums by having a high excess and no rental loss cover. If nothing had happened you would've been much better off. Hopefully you've taken a calculated risk by saving on these things and in doing that know you have the funds to cover it if it doesn't pay off.

    Sounds like this process is causing you stress though so maybe consider next time if the savings are worth the potential stress. I'm willing to pay more to keep stress free but we all have different risk tolerances.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:29
      +1

      I agree :(

      Stress/grief/anger/missing my family time….

      • bdl on 21/05/2022 - 13:40
        +4

        Stress/grief/anger/missing my family time….

        All because you don't want to pay the $3k excess…

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:13
          +1

          That's an extra 3K on my already lost rent of more than 3K. :(

          • buckster on 21/05/2022 - 22:12
            +7

            @webtonmoy: Get a quote on fixing the laundry, gut feeling is it will be in excess of the 3k, with materials costing what they currently do

    • tonka on 22/05/2022 - 18:50
      +2

      Property manager didn't stop this from happening to me, twice. If you are willing you can do a much better job than a manager juggling 1000 properties.

      • resisting the urge on 24/05/2022 - 15:59
        +2

        Someone in the middle who:

        • is the most junior in the firm
        • won't be the same person when the property comes up for rental next time
        • doesn't give a rats, or doesn't know the ropes
        • gets fired, leaves or promoted out of rentals

        is most unlikely to be helpful to anyone when there is a problem at a property, or with a tennant.

        They are of use for opening the property at inspection time, but at every other time they just get in the way and frustrate both sides. Given this can lead to level issues, it's barely even sensible Risk Management to have an Agent

        • Yola on 24/05/2022 - 16:59

          I agree. I look for women who have done this work for years and maybe because they have children are not looking at it as just a stepping stone to get into sales but happy to work reasonable and regular hours.

          • resisting the urge on 24/05/2022 - 17:04

            @Yola: But the good ones still take the first promotion that comes up, unless they communications skills prevents it happening. In which case, they can't really help when the going gets tough anyway

            • Yola on 25/05/2022 - 11:37

              @resisting the urge: Some people will not want a promotion as they do not want the responsibility and extra hours. I am thinking of women with small children.

        • tonka on 24/05/2022 - 18:18

          One problem I'm finding is they always play me off against the tenant. They trash talk the tenant to me and I am betting they are doing the same to the tenant about me as I find the tenant becoming antagonistic with me. I have very long term tenants that I placed in the property, I feel they should be treated as a customer where possible yet I find the agent always too heavy handed with them (probably in my name). And when the tenant has a request the agent always presents it to me as a complaint or even a threat to move out sometimes.

          • resisting the urge on 25/05/2022 - 10:19

            @tonka: Do what no-one else does and go talk to your tenant directly.

            You can always tell them that normally they should contact your Agent, not you, but at this point you are want to check if your Agent is actually working on your behalf given the issue you were informed of. And even tell them what you will ask the Agent to do.

            All you need do is knock on the door one Saturday morning, ask if they are ok/have any issues (with the flat, or the Agent). This is likely to be appreciated even if there aren't any…

            • Yola on 25/05/2022 - 11:40

              @resisting the urge: I would put something in the mailbox with my phone number. You are supposed to give 24 hours notice before attending the property which you cannot do as you do not have their contact info.

              • resisting the urge on 25/05/2022 - 22:13

                @Yola: Good advice. But with some tenants you don't want them calling you, so its risky too. I might risk a visit for a genuine query like this.

                However the safest option would be to have the agent send them arrange the necessary notice for an inspection, and simply ask then.

            • tonka on 25/05/2022 - 11:44

              @resisting the urge: That's why I think the agent is misrepresenting them. I have had the tenants for 20 years and have a relationship with them but find it is not as good as it was and suspect because the agent has created friction.

              • resisting the urge on 25/05/2022 - 22:16

                @tonka: It's most common. Agents are Rent Seekers in every meaning of the word. Literally, too.

                The good thing is that if there is something simple that you would both like fixed/addressed, it can be a win-win for all. Tennant love a supportive landlord. The main problem is that some Landlords would rather not hear every whinge so an Agent can be nice. But then again, those are likely the wrong tenants to have in your place.

  • nswnotill on 21/05/2022 - 12:25
    +3

    Perhaps you should remove all the items left behind and store them somewhere. If you have a forwarding address inform the tenants that you are holding these items, and if no reply from them you will dispose of them in XX days. If they come to collect, inform them that you will not release until they pay the rent arrears and various repair charges.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:28

      They did not leave a forwarding address, but so far taking my calls. So far in my understanding of the law, I cannot hold their items for unpaid rent if they want to take it back, and frankly, the items are not worth 200$, these are just a hassle for me by having them here or getting them stored somewhere.

      • mdavant on 22/05/2022 - 07:46
        +1

        Remove them from the house and store them near your carpet

      • DemocracyManifest on 23/05/2022 - 09:37

        Council cleanup lol - maybe apply to VCAT so you can get permission to do it

  • AndyC1 on 21/05/2022 - 12:31
    +4

    Call the council as some have 4 free cleanup per year. If they do then order one for the end of the 14 days and let the idiots know you have arranged for the council to pickup the crud on xx of May and let them sort out picking it up on your terms and only allow them one chance.

    I would move the crud into the car port or driveway so you can fix the house up.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:37

      I have asked them to move these within 14 days. I cannot move them to driveway as I require to store them "properly" for 14 days.

      • Muzeeb on 21/05/2022 - 13:32
        +10

        Let's be realistic here. They are not coming back to pick up their old shit.

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:09
          +2

          I know, but need to be on the right side of the law.

        • Jugganautx on 21/05/2022 - 14:11

          But OP told them to come get it within 14 days. So that means they have to do what OP says. /s

          • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:12
            +1

            @Jugganautx: The law requires me to give them at least 14 days of formal notice in their prescribed format to remove things :(

      • Quantumcat on 21/05/2022 - 18:39

        Is there no garage or covered car port?

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:24

          We have a large shed. We will move things there if not removed soon. However, I will need the new tenant to agree about this arrangement.

  • brendanm on 21/05/2022 - 12:35
    +2

    Take all the stuff to the tip, it was never there when you inspected.

    Get someone to look at where the leak has been, it may be worse than you think, and may be worth paying your excess and claiming everything on insurance. Pretty sure this is also a tax deduction, but could be wrong.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:38

      Insurance is tax deductible, good point.

      • brendanm on 21/05/2022 - 12:39
        +1

        Also, if any issues crop up later on that are related, it will still be on insurance. Probably worth it just for peace of mind.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:11

      The leak is not on the plumbing side of the house. In my understanding, it was from their washing machine. As now it is removed, no more leaking.

      • brendanm on 21/05/2022 - 14:21
        +4

        Yes, but water damage can be much worse than it looks.

        • legs on 21/05/2022 - 18:56

          Agreed re: water damage.

          If it was in a tiled laundry area with drainage then the damage should not typically be that significant.

          Although by the sounds if it, it was leaking onto the wall and skirting somehow?
          OP says mould in the walls, how would you know it's inside the walls? Or is there just some mould on the visible side of the wall? Definitely get it checked out by a professional as if could be either really expensive or really cheap to fix.

          • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:23
            +1

            @legs: It has floorboard, not tiles. The skirting and plasterboard has visible moulds for about 8 inches area above the floor.

  • sharkyoz on 21/05/2022 - 12:36
    +2

    Bikies, you wont get any money back, but the satisfaction that they were taught a lesson.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:39

      Don't know their current address :) just kidding.

  • ChiTown on 21/05/2022 - 13:27
    +1

    Tenants rights in VIC have become ridiculous, it's as if the tenant is the one who own's the property…

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:08
      +2

      I feel like the law is being a burden on the victim. For example, I cannot dispose their leftovers till 14 days… More lost rent for me.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 22/05/2022 - 17:46
      +1

      The law only supports really bad tenants. Good tenants who look after the place and just need somewhere to live can be kicked out at a moments notice and treated like sh1t by the REA and landlord.

  • thatonethere on 21/05/2022 - 13:36
    +5

    20/20 hindsight would have been to do a post arrival inspection. Often you see REA's do that - eg visit after 6-8 weeks to make sure things aren't going off the rails.

    As you don't subscribe to any tenancy databases (aka black lists) you couldn't check to see if they had issues in the past nor can you list them yourself.

    As others have said get a quote for your bathroom damage as you may be horrified how much water damage has occured and how much it will cost to fix. Obviously it won't be easily rentable in the future if you don't repair it.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:07
      +2

      You can't inspect before the first 3 months. And six months after that…

      I have to get a quote on the water damage. Also, looks like the central heating is not working anymore. I do not know what is being the issue there.

      • cheesecactus on 21/05/2022 - 19:16
        +2

        "You can't inspect before the first 3 months"

        Thats odd. Is this a VIC specific thing? I know an early first inspection is very common elsewhere. I recently had one at about 4-5 weeks-ish after moving in.

  • slow on 21/05/2022 - 13:38
    +8

    I've been through this myself .

    Have they officially moved out and given notice? You can't just walk in and start clearing their stuff, there is a legal process. You need to get an order from VCAT to take possession (you have t prove it has been abandoned), and then another order to start removing their stuff (they still a time period they can come and collect it and it needs to be valued as well and you may have to store it)

    Your best best will likely be to just get the bond, make sure you take lots of photos before you touch anything as the bond hearing people are very fussy, you need to equate everything you are claiming to a dollar value and have repair quotes (can't just be your estimate)

    It is depressing that someone can treat someone else's property with such disrespect, but you just need to get over that and move on

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:06
      +1

      They have moved out and handed over the keys, but left things behind. I have possession now. They problem is, they do not challenge me, or deny things. They just do not pay me the rent/damage and make excuses all the time.

      I already got the bond money back to me. It covered 4 weeks of rent. Still they owe me 7 weeks of rent.

      I took enough photos before I touched/repaired anything.

    • GMO on 21/05/2022 - 15:37
      +2

      I've been through this as well and looked into legal avenues. I agree with "slow" and I did what they did. unfortunately, you've cut your losses and not get most things back. I've lost a fair bit in rent and damages to windows, walls and carpet. Sorry this happened to you. it sucks.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 21/05/2022 - 13:56
    -2

    insurance or wear the costs - VCAT is pretty useless you cant force useless people to pay - this is what Socialism is help useless people be more useless and punish people who try to work hard and get ahead.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 14:03

      Unfortunately that appears to be the situation.

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 21/05/2022 - 14:08
        -7

        You r in Victoria like myself all i can say is this state gets what it deserves with Andrews and Greens representation at state and federal levels

        • burningrage on 21/05/2022 - 19:16
          +2

          That is why a lot of landlords are quitting the industry.

          • Trying2SaveABuck on 21/05/2022 - 23:19
            -5

            @burningrage: this is OZ-alp hence why im getting down votes - going to be investing with Albo in Dan is the most corrupt Premier in history hopefully he walks the walk with anti corruptions and cleans up. Becuz Victoria has been going backwards for almost a decade now under Andrews

            • whatgift on 23/05/2022 - 09:04
              -1

              @Trying2SaveABuck: You’re getting downvotes because your rants have no purpose or basis in fact, and don’t help the OPs situation.

              • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/05/2022 - 09:10

                @whatgift: Ranting nothing i made a statement i think you need to look up what rant means. State government has changed the laws for LL to make it far worse when dealing with bad tenants.

        • PopCounty on 21/05/2022 - 20:27

          I wish you wrote this note this morning 😞

      • ozbjunkie on 22/05/2022 - 11:11
        +2

        Using an agent in future might be less hassle, but if you want a positive spin on things, you saved 10% by not having one, and that's the money you'll now need to spend on repairs.

        That sucks.
        There are really good tenants out there. It's just the turnover of the rubbish tenants is probably higher so they turn up more often.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/05/2022 - 14:41
    +1

    $3000 excess lol,

  • Peter Enis on 21/05/2022 - 14:51
    +3

    So they left a trailer and a pile of junk behind. Seems obvious to me, fill up the trailer with the junk, pump up the tires and park it on the street. Then its no longer your problem.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:19

      Trailer already has their junk washing machine loaded, all the other useless staffs will take a 5 ton van easily.

  • FujiFruit on 21/05/2022 - 15:10
    +1

    This is why I am hesistant to rent out a room in my house in Sydney.
    Is there a way to find a good tenant without getting stuffed up?

    • congo on 21/05/2022 - 16:02
      +2

      Agreed. Had tenants that rektd the house. Tenants were hoarders :(
      We had agents, but we found out afterwards that many agents simply don’t do their job.
      Took the insurance payout, only got $700 after the excess. Found out afterwards, some insurance can be a scam as well.

      Does anyone know of good landlord insurance?
      For car insurance, NRMA have been great. But for landlord/rental insurance, haven’t had any luck.

      • PopCounty on 21/05/2022 - 20:32

        Terri Scheer. Have a look.

        I haven’t claimed anything as yet. But was told by genuine agent to go for this. Looks like they are one of the biggest in industry.

        • Yola on 22/05/2022 - 11:49

          All agents recommend this company. I suspect they get kickbacks/commissions.

    • Jugganautx on 22/05/2022 - 09:30

      Yeah… if they have bad hygiene have missing teeth and can't put an articulated sentence together don't rent to them.

      • Kparky on 22/05/2022 - 11:45
        +3

        Or a high tattoo to tooth ratio

  • twigman on 21/05/2022 - 16:05
    +3

    I'm sure if you take it to VCAT the tenants won't show and you will receive a default judgement for the amount in your favor, but they will never pay the money and be near impossible to find.

    I would seriously weight up the cost of repairs vs the excess for insurance. The problem with a civil matter like this is even if you can keep getting the court to order judgements against the tenants, they can and will keep moving, need to be found, served, and the cycle continues.

    If you know their address and confidently feel they won't move for a long time then going the court route may provide an outcome for you.

  • Shame on 21/05/2022 - 16:22

    Sell the place and put the money into a 10 year government bond at 3.2%. No tenants, no real estate agents, no council rates, no land tax,no repairs, no worries. Just a sweet hassle free yield.

    • congo on 21/05/2022 - 16:55

      How do you buy government bond? Through CommSec?

    • PopCounty on 21/05/2022 - 20:38
      +1

      Noooooo. You wouldn’t surpass inflation itself. Hassle free, agreed. But just hassle free nothing else.

      Better to still rent out considering the tenant can still damage. In 10 years, if house prices don’t crash, you would still be better off even you may have to repair fair bit of damage caused by tenant.

      • Shame on 21/05/2022 - 20:49
        -2

        Sydney property prices are already down around 10%. Lose another 10% in property or lose 5% via inflation?

        • PopCounty on 21/05/2022 - 21:08

          This is correction and definitely anticipated to exist.
          If I can put some statistics, 10 years ago invested in bonds after selling a house OR having retained the same house (let’s say non rented as well), which one would have been better?

          Also do you believe these 10% fall would be for next 10 years, consecutively? If so, you have bigger fish to fry than thinking about Govt. Bonds.

          Anyway, Govt. bonds are safe heaven in uncertain times or as you rightly mentioned for hassle free option. Rest, can’t compare with house imo.

  • Euphemistic on 21/05/2022 - 16:22
    +8

    $3k is a lot for an excess, but it’ll cover all damages and repairs and will mean you won’t have to do any of the work yourself.

  • FourBeanMix on 21/05/2022 - 16:36
    -4

    You knew the risk.

    • burningrage on 21/05/2022 - 19:13
      +2

      And people ask why we have rental crisis.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:17

      I don't think it should be an excuse for anything.

    • PopCounty on 21/05/2022 - 20:40
      +2

      Are you that husband?

  • katykat on 21/05/2022 - 17:45
    +4

    Go to VCAT. Even if you never get the money back from them, it's best to have a judgement in your favour for proof that they have done the wrong thing. You don't really lose, because if you don't do anything, you still get nothing.

    Keep in mind this isn't a quick thing though. VCAT listing dates are massively blown out due to covid and for Residential Tenancies can be over a year at the moment. It's more about the long game and holding them accountable eventually.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:16

      Yes, they should be held accountable for their actions.

      • Koalabeer on 23/05/2022 - 13:56

        I agree sad ppl are like this?… its not hard pay rent, keep place tidy not rocket science!!!

  • Vote for Pedro on 21/05/2022 - 17:52
    +5

    Insurance. It’s a cost of doing business. Just like shrinkage in retail.

    Don’t take it personally. It’s a business.

  • nosey on 21/05/2022 - 19:55
    +7

    Hey mate I had a similar recent experience. I moved interstate with work for 1yr and rented out. House was our family home, nicely renovated for our own comfort 2 years prior. Had an agent with good rep, the tenants were a military couple.

    Rent was paid so didn't have that drama but their 2 'small' dogs ended up being 2 large dogs that shat/pissed on carpet throughout house. Curtains were ripped and one was half pulled off wall. The backyard lawn was shredded, with half down to bare dirt. About 7 native/fruit trees that I'd planted and were about 1.5m high had been gnawed in half. I think dogs were very neglected to be such assholes.

    The tenants acknowledged they were shit and dogs were bad so released full bond. That covered carpet replacement at least. I bought a SCA wet n dry vacuum for doing curtains a few more times. Can't do much about yard and doesn't meet threshold for doing an insurance claim. Just landlord life. Glad they weren't in house longer.

    Got lots of things and depreciation to claim at tax time but it's just been a hassle.

    I think you're doing the right thing by following the law, even though you might want to sell/bin their stuff. Go to VCAT for a ruling, even if you never get repaid. You'll feel better for trying and hopefully your insurance pays out. Definitely get the water damage checked out, that would be my major concern besides lost rent.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:15

      Sorry to hear about your case. I would try to recover the loss, let see. :)

    • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2022 - 00:39

      the tenants were a military couple.

      complain to the army about their behaviour, even better if you can find their commanding officer and tell him what they've been up to. i doubt the army would be happy, they expect their troops to conduct themselves in a manner befitting someone in the armed forces.

      • DemocracyManifest on 23/05/2022 - 09:45

        Neglecting the garden and having shit animals and not looking after them is crap but somehow I think going to their employer isn’t going to do anything…and I doubt that they would freely give that information

        • nosey on 23/05/2022 - 10:23
          +1

          Yeah military wouldn't care unless it reached criminal level eg burning house down.

  • WreckTangle on 21/05/2022 - 20:33
    +1

    Claim on your landlord insurance. You have that right?

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 20:38
      +1

      I do. However, I have 3000$ excess for damage, so not sure whether to go that route.

      • Quantumcat on 22/05/2022 - 11:49
        +2

        Definitely go that route, if you fix things in a dodgy way it might cost you $3k, much better to get everything done properly and knowing $3k is the most you will pay for proper fixing is great. Plus the lost rent and it makes it a no-brainer.

  • john_conner on 21/05/2022 - 21:15
    +4

    Just be aware insurance could take up to 4 months just to make a decision. If claiming insurance, get the assessor in first, then just fix it yourself and take a cash settlement. This way you won’t be waiting 4 months for a decision and then more for the trades to do the job…
    Meanwhile you can cancel the claim if the cost of the job is less than excess. Check this with your insurance before taking action.

  • JimB on 21/05/2022 - 22:58
    +4

    Next time just get landlord insurance with rent cover with a more reasonable excess of say $1k.

    Let the insurance deal with the hassles. You’ll also get paid loss of rent while the property is being repaired.

    You may have to go through an agent (worth it IMO) as some landlord insurance polices requires you to have a property manager.

    In terms of the $3k damage. Think of it as a cost of doing business. You have broken even. 2 years of agents fees is around $3k.

    Pay for an agent and LL insurance. It’s tax deductible. You’ll sleep easier.

    • webtonmoy on 22/05/2022 - 21:01

      Definitely worth considering. Thanks.

  • IM-Cheap on 21/05/2022 - 23:01
    +1

    Get better landlord insurance - my excess is $250 per damage event with loss of rent up covered and claimable with $0 excess.

    Your agent should also do better screening (or you should get a better agent). My agent won't even show me an application if they think the applicants income or rental history is lacking.

  • Hardlyworkin on 21/05/2022 - 23:19
    +3

    Have a look at how much the place has increased in value in the short period they were there. This might put into context that despite the crap you've had to deal with, you're still doing alright.

  • nobro25 on 21/05/2022 - 23:39
    +1

    Imagine the renter's are on Ozbargain reading this thread and giggling… Gigitty!!!

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