Tenant Has Trashed The Property, What Are My Options?

webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:21
Last edited 21/05/2022 - 11:23

I had the misfortune of renting to a couple who has caused a lot of trouble. Here are the issues

1. Unpaid rent: About 11 weeks of unpaid rent. I was a bit lenient as they said they just had a baby. They made excuses for months with occasional payments and accumulated 6 weeks of rent. At that point they refused to pay. Husband said he is not living there anymore, so he won't pay. Wife said she has given money to the husband and she can't pay anymore as she is not working. I gave 2 weeks notice to vacate the property, they took another 2 weeks making excuses before handing over the keys. They released the bond that covered 4 weeks of rent, so 7 weeks of unpaid rent now.

2. Things left behind: They have not taken everything out of the property. Lots of small items + a mattress, dressing table, a large trailer, 2 large tables, chairs, bbq machine, lots of construction items, and many other items. I proposed to dispose the items, they denied. I gave 2 weeks of notice as per the law required. They scheduled times to pick up the items, and so far did not came (made more excuses).

3. Damages: They installed a laundry machine, which leaked. Instead of fixing it or letting me know, they kept as it is. Wife's excuse is that the husband promised to fix it. Now it has caused moulds in all the walls and skirting of the laundry place and its door. I don't know how much it will cost to repair this.

They removed the carpet in the large storage shed without asking me. The carpet was not in the best shape, but now it has been kept outside for god knows how long, so it is unusable now.

They had a cat without permission. And chickens in the backyard (without permission). They left chicken poops all over the backyard deck.

4. Unkept premise: They never cut the grass in the backyard and part of the front yard. It is about my waist high and I am cutting it for the past two days.

My Options:

Insurance: I have landlord insurance for damage, but not for rental loss. The excess amount is 3000$, so not worth it, I guess.

VCAT: It probably will take few thousands of dollars to bring the property to a liveable state. I plan to take them to VCAT to recover my loss. I don't know how much I can recover, so I am planning to do the works myself as much as possible. This is causing a lot of stress to me. Can I claim my own hours of work and seek compensation in VCAT?

This is a new situation to me. Can anyone please share their opinion or experience is related matters? Do you think VCAT really is helpful in such situation? What happens if the tenant refuse/unable to pay in VCAT?

This is a house I used to live and renovated it, only moved out due to change of job location. What makes me sad is that for me this is my house, where they took it as a temporary shelter and moved on, and took advantages of my good gestures.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • coxjon on 21/05/2022 - 11:24
    +84

    Insurance.

    They can’t pay, they won’t pay.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:41

      Thanks. Unfortunately my large excess fee does not make it worth. Also I guess if I claim through insurance, my next premiums would increase.

      • ChillBro on 21/05/2022 - 11:47
        +145

        if I claim through insurance, my next premiums would increase.

        Why even have insurance then lmao

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:53
          +9

          I thought insurance will be for cases with much larger damage, such as natural disaster. Also, it's a requirement from the bank for mortgage.

          • dizzle on 21/05/2022 - 15:36
            +37

            @webtonmoy: Isn't that home insurance that's required for the mortgage which would be different from Landlord insurance?

            • webtonmoy on 22/05/2022 - 16:02
              -4

              @dizzle: Is it? I thought it is the same. The landlord insurance covers the structural damage. There is seperate content insurance and rental loss protection insurance that I did not take.

              • dizzle on 23/05/2022 - 08:57
                +1

                @webtonmoy: Depending on what sort of mortgage you have, the banks normally only require builing insurance (ensuring thier investment). Landlord insurance in not normally required.

                There is seperate content insurance and rental loss protection insurance that I did not take.

                I didn't notice that in original post, but that means you're out of luck. I can understand not taking it if using a real estate, but your cost cutting and bad management of tenants has hurt you.

                So to answer your original questions:
                1) unless they volunteer to pay, you'd have to go to court with no guarantee they can pay.
                2) unless you take them to court for costs, follow the proceedure and then dispose at your cost
                3) If the damage is larger than your excess, then claim. If not then just pay.
                4) Suck it up. Did you inspect the premesis regularly?

            • zephyrfox on 23/05/2022 - 13:50
              +1

              @dizzle: You would be crazy not to have landlord insurance. The main feature you want from the policy is the public liability insurance. Eg a floor board comes loose and someone trips on it and is physically impaired forever and they sue you, this would effectively ruin you. Public liability will cover you for 5M - 10M.

              • dizzle on 23/05/2022 - 19:36

                @zephyrfox: I was meaning the rental loss protection. It seems he has landlord insurance but didn't choose the optional extras.

          • SlickMick on 22/05/2022 - 12:57
            +4

            @webtonmoy: That's how I insure. Don't claim the small stuff, I'm insured for what would cripple me financially if I didn't have insurance.

        • nomoneynoproblems on 21/05/2022 - 12:26
          +3

          For when the tenant burns half the house.

        • shutuptakemymoney101 on 21/05/2022 - 22:42
          +13

          What's funny 'Bro' about someone being (profanity) over by tenants and then having to foot the bill themselves?

        • ozbjunkie on 22/05/2022 - 10:24

          Aha! And that's how they get you.

      • smartazz104 on 21/05/2022 - 21:21
        +6

        Also I guess if I claim through insurance, my next premiums would increase

        They go up regardless.

      • Sxio on 21/05/2022 - 23:38
        +10

        How much is your excess? I find it hard to believe it will be more than the cost of repairs. They will be extensive. If you have insurance, you should at least begin the claim process so you know for sure. Don't worry about the premiums. This situation is exactly why you have insurance.

      • virhlpool on 22/05/2022 - 09:40
        +2

        Also I guess if I claim through insurance, my next premiums would increase.

        Property insurance doesn't work that way. Any claim doesn't impact your property insurance premiums. They, like any other insurance, still keep getting dearer every year though. It's not a car insurance where a claim would mean a higher premium next year.

        • bulletbill88 on 22/05/2022 - 10:26
          +3

          Second the OP talking to his insurer. If you have a genuine claim I’ve found insurance companies are not too bad to deal with.

          We had a large home and contents claim due to stormwater damage at our property a few years back. Thought our premium would go up heaps but when I got the bill for next year it was just increased by the standard amount. Was even able to get a bit cheaper by shopping around with a new insurer, even though they new we had done a claim the year before.

      • knk on 22/05/2022 - 10:12

        who is your insurance with

        • webtonmoy on 22/05/2022 - 16:03

          Budgetdirect.

          • The Wololo Wombat on 22/05/2022 - 18:30
            -1

            @webtonmoy: Terri Sheer or EBM only options

            • Jackson on 22/05/2022 - 20:08

              @The Wololo Wombat: Seconding Terri Scheer (which is the correct spelling, in case someone wants to google them)

              • knk on 22/05/2022 - 20:31

                @Jackson: When I looked into this they were the only ones offering half decent malicious damage cover. I don't think there were any decent options outside of this, they are pricier than the others by a long shot though.

                AAMI had a shockingly piss poor level of coverage when you really looked at it.

                • Jackson on 22/05/2022 - 20:49

                  @knk: They weren't pricier in my case, were very competitive and the list of inclusions was longer than AAMI

                  • knk on 22/05/2022 - 20:51

                    @Jackson: Interesting. Honestly after my comparison like 7 years ago I never looked again. I just stuck with them. Probably not the smartest move lol.

                    • Jackson on 22/05/2022 - 22:06

                      @knk: You know I almost did the same thing, was with them for years, then did the ring around to the usual susepects and they were still the cheapest and best

                      • knk on 23/05/2022 - 12:06
                        +2

                        @Jackson: Good to know, thanks for doing the groundwork for me :)

                • Hangryuman on 23/05/2022 - 18:54

                  @knk: when my door was kicked in by the drug-addled tenant, my insurer refused my claim for malicious damage, saying it may have been accidental.

                  an ex-insurance actuary once told me that anything you'd want to be covered by insurance is usually excluded by the fine print you didn't bother to read - while there will be lots of impressive lists of things that are never likely to happen - which is how they get to keep your insurance premiums and not pay it out to you.

          • knk on 22/05/2022 - 20:30

            @webtonmoy: oof

      • lechuck123 on 22/05/2022 - 11:21
        +3

        I had a similar issue. Landlords Insurance covered 10 weeks of unpaid rent plus fixes to all the damages. How could that possibly be more than the premium?

        • lechuck123 on 22/05/2022 - 11:29
          +3

          Reading further It sounds like OP doesn't have landlords Insurance.

          Get it. It's less than $400/Year and covers all of this headache

          • webtonmoy on 22/05/2022 - 16:04
            -2

            @lechuck123: I have landlord insurance, but that does not cover the rental loss, I had to purchase a seperate insurance for that.

            • lechuck123 on 23/05/2022 - 09:13

              @webtonmoy: Really? That's poor form on their behalf! Just checked who I'm with and it's Terri Sheer. I don't remember seeing an excess on it, but there probably was I suppose.

      • HeWhoKnows on 22/05/2022 - 21:01
        +9

        You got the WRONG insurance man
        That excess is just ridiculous
        Should only be $300 to $500

    • bradl822 on 22/05/2022 - 11:12
      +2

      Typically in this case you wouldn't get paid out, so you're 100% correct. Usually in cases like this the damage hasn't happened over night, hence the insurance company will ask for proof of regular inspections with photographic proof in line with the tenancy agreement. Your really only option is get quotes and get what you can from their bond.

    • SlickMick on 22/05/2022 - 12:56
      +1

      Debt collector, including quotes for getting place back as you gave it to them. You'll get some back, debt collector will keep at least as much. But at least it doesn't allow them to get away with it.

  • Ocker on 21/05/2022 - 11:31
    +30

    Forget VCAT - they can make a ruling in your favour but they cannot enforce it..
    If the other party refuses to pay you would need to pursue them through the Magistrates Court and get a court order in your favour. If they still refuse to pay you could then pursue them for bankruptcy.
    All told, a truck-load in legal fees and still maybe get nothing.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:42
      +26

      I feel like the law penalises the victims :(

      • Caped Baldy on 21/05/2022 - 18:28
        +5

        You need to prepare a lot documents too. So get ready for that process.

      • PumpkinHater on 21/05/2022 - 18:36
        +5

        True! I have also been a victim and it appears the legal process is actually stacked against the victim.

        • Euphemistic on 22/05/2022 - 09:38
          +6

          True it seems stacked against the victim, but it seems a necessary evil to ensure that wealthy landlords with expensive lawyers can’t screw over tenants too much. Unfortunately it leaves ‘Mum and dad’ landlords in a sticky spot if they get shitty tenants.

      • juki on 21/05/2022 - 23:48
        +3

        you cant shave an egg, if they arrange not to have the funds you just end up with an IOU. I am biased towards paperwork i think the best for your sanity might be to either frequently take out you frustration badgering them as much as you can or just cut your losses.

        I'm not to familiar with aussie law

        • Matt P on 24/05/2022 - 19:39
          +1

          I've never heard the expression "you can't shave an egg" before and now i can't stop laughing.

          I'm adding it to my repertoire

          • juki on 24/05/2022 - 23:29

            @Matt P: thanks, usually people wonder what i'm rambling on about

    • garetz on 21/05/2022 - 13:54
      +14

      They may not be able to enforce it, but once a ruling is made in your favor you can send it to a debt collector for recovery.

      • cktftw on 21/05/2022 - 17:17
        +33

        This and ruin their credit file forever - can never rent or or get credit
        Serves them right for being aholes

        • kaleidoscope on 21/05/2022 - 18:49
          +1

          This and ruin their credit file forever - can never rent or or get credit
          Serves them right for being aholes

          💯 this.

        • juki on 21/05/2022 - 23:49

          out of curiosity how does it prevent them from renting?

          • LukeS on 22/05/2022 - 18:00

            @juki: It's not uncommon for a real estate agent to do a credit check.

          • johndoh89 on 22/05/2022 - 20:09
            +5

            @juki: Housing is extremely competitive in a lot of places.

            Last time I rented I had to provide proof of income and expenses, the contact details for the landlord/agent of my last place of residence and I believe they did a credit check. They also had questions about previous bonds etc.

            I think it actually had more info than I provided to get my mortgage.

        • FareEvader on 22/05/2022 - 23:33

          Does it really last forever or only ~10 years if they declare bankruptcy?

          • cktftw on 23/05/2022 - 08:43
            +1

            @FareEvader: Maybe not, but 10 years is enough pain i reckon

        • unwashed00 on 24/05/2022 - 12:54

          It's wishful thinking about forever. Though TICO (or is it TICA) if they owe landlord will leave a bad mark on their renting for 5 years.

          Court ruling could wreck credit for 5 years too.

    • bobbified on 21/05/2022 - 15:53
      +5

      All told, a truck-load in legal fees and still maybe get nothing.

      The legal fees for the court enforcement order can be added to the debt. (But if they really have nothing, then bankruptcy isn't exactly going to help).

  • Muzeeb on 21/05/2022 - 11:34
    +5

    a large trailer,

    Trailers can be worth a bit. What are the specs?

    Was there a property manager?

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:43
      +1

      It looks like a old rusty trailer with flat tires, not worth much.

      I mange the property myself :(

      • Muzeeb on 21/05/2022 - 11:44
        +1

        Dang!

      • wei13 on 21/05/2022 - 11:56
        +2

        Dunno what yours is like, but you could be suprised. People will come to pickup old trailer frames.
        Take a picture and put it on Marketplace for $80 and see what you get.

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:00
          +5

          Not worth the trouble, as I need to give them the money if I sell it. Unlike them, I would remain on the right side of the law…

          • juki on 21/05/2022 - 23:50

            @webtonmoy: say it got stolen?
            or ask them if they want to come and collect it or that you'll be disposing of it

      • dogboy on 22/05/2022 - 09:06
        +12

        My question was going to be how in the hell were these issues not identified during the routine inspections. If you manage the property yourself then you only have one person to blame (in addition to these ferals of course) for not find out all these issues sooner.

        • webtonmoy on 22/05/2022 - 16:07
          +3

          They were there only for few months. I had to ask them leave in around 6 months for non payment of rent.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:54
      +2

      Also, as per the law, if I sell it, I need to give the money to them.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/05/2022 - 11:59
        +12

        they have as much chance of getting that money from you as you do getting the rent you are owed from them, as well as what they owe you for the damage.

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:02
          +20

          Thanks. Unfortunately, I would not risk legal consequences against me for this. Those people do not have a reputation/credit rating to lose- unfortunately, I do.

          • Jackson on 22/05/2022 - 20:18
            +1

            @webtonmoy: Pretty sure you are allowed to dispose of their stuff they leave there unclaimed. I dont see why you can't say "they left and didn't return my calls, and I had to get rid of it to rent to come ones else". Perfectly defensible position.

            Also don't list it for 80 bucks, list it for 500.trailers are expensive

            • cantanga on 24/05/2022 - 14:09

              @Jackson: Odds are pretty good that OP isn't the registered owner. Sounds like it would be a right PIA to get registration transferred if you bought it from OP. Scrap metal probably the best way.

      • Quantumcat on 21/05/2022 - 12:15
        +20

        Take it from the unpaid rent. Now they owe you $80 less.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:44
      +14

      Yes, that's the lesson I learned. I will move on, just a bit sad and angry at this stage. And next time, I will not show any leniency for any tenant.

      • CodeExplode on 22/05/2022 - 03:52
        +3

        Showing leniency is fine, you just have to make sure you're showing it to the right people. Landlords have shown me leniency at times and I've taken care of their property and tried to make sure everything is in the best shape it can be. It's just a question of whether you get good or rubbish people. From the brief description it sounds like the woman might have been in a messed up relationship or even domestic violence situation and now is stuck with a baby and doesn't know what to do.

          • tonka on 22/05/2022 - 18:42

            @Arigato: I've had all the same issues in a property managed by agent, Plus they charge fees as well.

          • webtonmoy on 22/05/2022 - 20:55

            @Arigato: I am sorry to hear that you feel so. I tried to consider every request they made, hence they could be 11 weeks behind. They never made any repair request, so I don't know what else I could do.

    • barge-in hunter on 21/05/2022 - 11:45
      +25

      Yeah, that's a bit rough @pharkenhell. Half of these things they wouldn't have known about until the tenants moved out, so "being a soft flog" had nothing to do with it.

      As for the missing rent - I had tenants in our investment property who were behind, but it was a domestic violence situation so we gave them leniency. In our case, they paid up and left but it could have easily gone the other way. This whole "aLl LaNdLoRdS aRe ThE sPaWn Of SaTaN aNd DeSeRvE aBuSiVe TeNaNtS" rhetoric reinforces those shitty tenants' behaviour. It's a two way street with bad eggs on both sides.

      To OP - sorry to hear your good intentions were taken advantage of; insurance is your best best. Just take photos and get the insurance inspector out before you do any form of repairs or gardening yourself. Don't want them watering down the claim because you've started fixing things

      • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:52
        +2

        Thanks, I have already cut the grass and did most of the cleaning. I took photos before doing that though. If I engage the insurance and they inspect, can I later not claim through insurance? I am worried about the 3000$ excess. If I can do things below or close to that amount, I would prefer that, I do not want to lose more money on this property :(

        • JIMB0 on 21/05/2022 - 12:26
          +2

          Do you realise that all the money you spend is tax deductable. Often this makes it not worthwhile doing yourself.

          • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:35
            +8

            @JIMB0: I know it's tax deductible. However, that will save me 32% of the money spent, and tradies are not cheap. I a trying to minimise my loss, as already lost several thousands in rent.

            • SlickMick on 22/05/2022 - 13:01
              +4

              @webtonmoy: Don't you hate people suggesting that you throw good money at something because some portion of it can be recovered.
              I've never seen how they see that as logical.

        • barge-in hunter on 21/05/2022 - 12:28
          +3

          I guess it depends on the insurance policy and the value of the missing rent.

          Some covers missing rent, but not just what they didn't pay - also the unoccupied time while repairs are done. Does this plus the repairs exceeds $3k? Might be worth a call to your insurance company at least

        • lechuck123 on 22/05/2022 - 11:31

          Is this landlords Insurance or building insurance?

    • Tech5 on 21/05/2022 - 13:20
      +2

      I'd rather be called naïve than cynical.

  • bohn on 21/05/2022 - 11:53
    +24

    You might want to consider getting an agent. Mine do an inspection every 6 months, and they'd often pick up on things like mould and what not.

    They'd also recommend lodging a notice to vacate once the rent is 15 days late (a tenant is allowed 14 days under the Act to pay their rent, unless they are under a payment plan etc). This doesn't have to be followed through on in the event that the tenant does pay a bit later, however, it protects the interests of the landlord.

    Personally I would still take them to VCAT and get an order against them, and try and get them on a bad tenant database if they don't comply with the order. Not sure how easy it is for private landlords to get people added to these lists though, never had experience with that.

    Also, the husband is still responsible if he is still listed on the lease, even if he has moved out.

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 11:58

      Thanks. I am considering getting an agent next time.

      I went through the related legislations, you are right about the notice periods. I knew that, but was lenient as they said about their new child and was always promising to pay the rent "this week" and making occasional payments. I learned my lesson. This won't happen again.

      I would take them to VCAT though I really don't feel that I would get the money back.

      • bohn on 21/05/2022 - 12:03
        +6

        I would take them to VCAT though I really don't feel that I would get the money back.

        You don't have much to lose. The application fee isn't much.

        • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:30

          Will do so. :)

          • mdavant on 22/05/2022 - 07:43

            @webtonmoy: If you have the means, then take them.

            It will

            1
            Possibly result in you getting some money (unlikely)

            1. Definitely result in you understanding the system.

            Now if you are going to become an investor with millions on the line in the future it could very well be worth the effort.

            I know / am friends with people of high net worth ( tens and hundreds of millions) and I know that sometimes to amass serious wealth you will be in and out of courts defending it.

            Look at Clive.

      • CodeExplode on 22/05/2022 - 03:54
        +3

        Having been on the other end with dodgy agents who were obviously just extracting as much money as they could from the situation and not doing anything they were supposed to, just make sure you try not to get burned there either.

    • Yola on 22/05/2022 - 11:41

      Even when you have an agent you have to keep an eye on things. I had one that failed to collect the rent for several weeks and then when I told them they did not follow their own written policy of lodging notice to vacate.

  • rektrading on 21/05/2022 - 12:00
    +34

    Being a landlord is such an easy job they say until it isn't.

    • mdavant on 22/05/2022 - 07:45
      +3

      Best to be at arm's length so you can take emotion out of it.

      It is like people forget they have a million on the line per property.

    • Arigato on 22/05/2022 - 11:08
      +3

      So many poor people managing the banks property these days

  • wei13 on 21/05/2022 - 12:14
    +9

    Unfortunately, your story is not unusual or rare. Not sure what your question is, but you already know your two options: insurance or sort it yourself.

    To put in perspective, grass can be mowed, chicken poop can be cleaned, trash left behind can be taken to the dump, house can be cleaned - these are not rare issues that landlords regularly face. Personally, if it was already an old carpet in a shed, then just dump the carpet and leave shed without carpet.

    You don't know how much the laundry damage will cost - get some quotes and get it repaired - there's no other option.

    Lodge it at VCAT. Count it a bonus if you actually get anything out of it. And next time, if you are going to rent, get insurance that will cover the risks that you are not willing to deal with - I guess just take it a lesson learnt.

    Tax note: if you are not going to rent it out after this, then if you get the damages repaired in the current financial year (or invoiced), then it can still be claimed against your rental income this year (assuming you are declaring rental income).

    • webtonmoy on 21/05/2022 - 12:25

      Thanks for your suggestions. Already working on these.

      Main purpose of this post is to see what others could recover if in similar situations.

      1. Does VCAT consider my time and effort in cleaning up the mess, and order compensation? Or does it need to be invoiced from a service provider (cleaner, handyman, etc.)

      2. What happens when the tenant does not pay after VCAT order (assuming I get that in my favour)?

      • garetz on 21/05/2022 - 13:58
        +8

        1. no they do not, they only consider what you can prove through an invoice

        2. you need to get a debt collection agency to collect the debt on your behalf

    • kyle on 22/05/2022 - 00:35
      +1

      You can only claim against rental income if the property is available for rent at the time of incurring the expense.

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