I had invested about $5k worth of crypto in May 2021 when it was almost at its peak - I have been holding for long enough and things have been going south lately. Investments are spread across multiple coins and they are nowhere near where I bought them (yes, all of them).
I have lost about 85% of my initial investment and I think I should just register my losses and get out - I've also heard there might be "some" tax benefits.
If you were in my shoe, what would you do ?
I dont have any capital gains (I'm assuming this is only from properties / shares / etc ) - but I have done some Amazon flex throughout the year on ABN (apart from my full-time job) - wondering if that's considered a capital gain
I dont have any capital gains (I'm assuming this is only from properties / shares / etc
This applies to all investment vehicles.
This applies to all investment vehicles.
yeah, nah, crypto was my first investment - BIG TIME FAILURE imho.
@rektrading: Saylor told me to re-mortage my house and buy bitcoin when it was 60K, lucky I didn't deserve that!
@Tldr: Yeah but on the flip-side crypto also has higher gains… from covid low mar-20. NDQ up 150% at ATH down 35% now. BTC up 1500% at ATH down 75% now which is still up 350% from that low. You've learnt buying ATH isn't a good idea. 90% though is some truly speculative "assets".
@Tldr: If it makes you feel better, I sold 2,000 bitcoins for a few dollars each long ago.
At least I hope it makes you feel better, I still feel like shit about it.
We live and learn with investing. Always diversify, always be willing to take a bit of a gamble but make sure you have a long term goal as well. Fads rarely pay off unless you get in early and by the time they’re common knowledge it’s too late.
I dont have any capital gains
Then you'll just be carrying forward a loss.
May as well just hodl and see as you will see no tax benefit this year and if you're already down that much, not much difference between selling now and future.
Thanks, last year my accountant (H&R Block generic accountant) told me I should have registered losses - I told him the same, but I guess he just did not have any clue
This. You need to make money before you can claim losses. The ATO isn’t stupid. They tax you on gains but give you a credit against losses to claim against future gains. If you never have future capital gains there is no benefit.
Out of curiosity, what’s the pay like with Amazon Flex? Heard it being advertised on the radio
Depends on the days, I usually book a slot just before an hour or so I get peak rates. The max I've gone is $160 per block (4 hrs). Completed that in about 2.5 hrs. The lowest is 120$ (4 hrs) - completed that as well in about 2.5 - 3 hrs
@Tldr: So potentially you're making anywhere from $40/h - $80/h. Or an extra between $100/day - $200/day. For a part-time commitment of 2h-4h per day. That seems pretty good and reasonable.
Thanks for the stats.
@Tldr: if Amazon flex is income from working - then no, it's not a capital gains by any stretch of the imagination. Capital gains only apply to investment, not income
The 50% CGT after 12 months maybe better VS any gains from loses :).. so holding and selling at the next boom "if it ever recovers would be best"
Does anybody know what is the point of the 50% discount for holding > 12 months?
So that professionals such as day traders and algorithm traders pay more tax
@greatlamp: The smart professional traders use LLC and P/L.
They can then pay less taxes and if set up correctly pay no taxes at all.
I thought I'd be able to find the explanatory memorandum for the legislation to find out the original intent of the legislation setting out the exemption, but it's pretty fuzzy.
There will be a second reading speech in parliament when the bill was introduced where the MP introducing it sets out the justifcation, but i'm a bit pressed for time to find it.
However, the fact that it's a bit murky suggests it's not the most coherent policy (and I say that as a beneficiary of it)
https://www.austaxpolicy.com/australias-50-capital-gains-tax…
big fan of your comments, thanks for the recommendation, but I lost more by #BFTD.
Just cannot afford to do more
. #Bear markets and #BTFD is how people make 💵.
People who #FOMO #ATH are the ones on the other side of the trade.
I'll probably be one of the people who buy your (or someone else's) bags at the bottom.
"I'll probably be one of the people who buy your (or someone else's) bags at the bottom."
That's the beauty of looking at historic charts of prices, you can tell when the bottom is. (Apart from that whole Luna thing, I guess?)
"BTFD" was always meme made up to ensure there was plenty of exit liquidity in the market. I'm guessing there weren't any funny phrases about catching falling knives.
@CrowReally: I don't have to know where the bottom is.
I've limit orders starting from sub $18,000 all the way down to the Rona bottom.
Genuine question - why do you hashtag everything and what does .# at the start of acronyms mean? e.g. .#Bear
What is the importance of a . 🤔
What is the importance of a .
Lazy character escaping.
If you type #rekt at the start of a line you get:
Whereas if you type .#rekt you get
.#rekt
The technically correct way would be to use the escape character, which in OzBargains case (and actually most cases) is the \ character (I actually had to type \\ there to get a single \ character). So \#rekt gives you:
#rekt
@Chandler: Thank you!!!! That makes sense now. Greatly appreciate the reply. I just thought rektrading had their own stupid methodology to writing comments, which is pretty much the case anyway, but your reply made perfect sense of rekt's complete nonsense, so thank you.
I've got bags of CEL and Luna 2.0 that are at the bottom, want those? #buttcoin
At this point you may as well just HODL. Crypto could rebound in a big way, it might slowly die. Either way if you're down to $750 you may as well let it ride.
You can only deduct capital loss on capital gains (in the case of shares, crypto may be different), so I guess it may be beneficial in the future if you sell a house or something.
makes sense, thanks!
@Tldr: SnowDragon's advice only applies if you sell an investment property. You don't get charged any tax on your PPOR anyway so you can't apply it to that.
Yeah it might rebound, but you could put that money somewhere else where it can be of use, instead of maybe somewhere where it 'might' do this or that.
I would #hodl for 2 more years as $5k is an affordable loss
Nah keep it in celcious
That's the thing about Crypto - nothing about their valuation makes any sense or is based on a rational basis so how do you make a rational decision on whether to hold or sell? You've just to try and get a feel for how strong the vibe is, man.
If you don't sell there will be no tax to pay. If you sell you'll have a loss which won't be any immediate tax benefit as you don't have any gains to offset.
If you were in my shoe, what would you do ?
Wouldn’t have bought in the first place.
If you could time travel the best you can come up with is to not buy? Surely it would be to buy early and sell at the peak!
If you put another $5k now, you cut your losses to 42.5% ;)
I thought the same when I had invested about 3k and was running with losses - I ended up investing another 2k in order to avg out my buy price. Wrong decision!
Put a $100 K in now and the losses will virtually disappear…until next week :(
I was in your shoes in 2018. I bought about $2000 worth during ATH and bought another $6000 worth in subsequent dips and in later 2018 i was down 85%. I help on till April 2021 and ended up selling everything for $6k profit and paid my share of profit to ATO and have not bought back in crypto since then.
You should buy more so I can sell this useless shit
Sell and move on so you don't have to think about it or keep checking prices. Over time you will forget about the money lost.
Hah. https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/if-you-do-this-the-ato-is-…
The Australian Taxation Office (ATO) is warning taxpayers to not engage in ‘asset wash sales’ to artificially increase their losses and reduce gains or expected gains.
Wash sales are a form of tax avoidance the ATO is focused on this tax time.
A wash sale is typically when assets - such as crypto and shares - are disposed of before the end of the financial year but, shortly thereafter, the same or substantially similar assets are then reacquired.
Easy fix.
Sell spot, buy derivatives.
Eat it tax office.
you might want to read TR 2008/1
I don't need to.
Spot is legally not the same as derivatives.
An excerpt for anyone else wondering:
Examples of wash sales where Part IVA might be in question for the purposes of this Ruling include the following.
…
(d) shortly prior to, at the time of, or shortly after disposing of, or dealing with, the asset the taxpayer enters into derivatives or financial instruments that substantially provide continued exposure to the risks and opportunities of the asset, as if the taxpayer had continued to hold the asset;
HODL to zero!
Who is shorting $LUNC?
It's +40.0% 1D and is showing overbought.
It's likely crypto will fall further. Don't see many if any analysts predicting increases in crypto, but many predicting further losses.
I'd just suck up my losses and move on. Learn your lesson that get rich quick ponzi schemes rarely work out. You only hear about the wins but people who lose out rarely will share their story.
Until 5 years time when it's all boom again and OP misses out on doubling the initial investment for a crappy $750 back in his pocket now which won't do much good.
People will buy at the price they deserve.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/2230146/redir
DisabledUser35983 on 09/09/2014 - 09:42
1 Bitcoin = ~$500 ..so is that like 2 BitCents?
Wonder if they still #HODL?
It's like Enron stock, could have easily 4xed your money in 1998 if you held for a year or so. :). Wonder if they still #HODL?
Isn't picking selective price action history great? Can easily show how great or poor an investment is, disregarding what the current situation is like entirely.
It's like Enron stock, could have easily 4xed your money in 1998 if you held for a year or so. :).
4x 😆.
@rektrading: I know right? I mean, it's much better than any return you'd get if you'd have invested in any of the top 10 cryptocurrencies 5 years ago but hey.
Just shift the goalposts a little and crypto over X period looks great!!
@DingoBilly: Enron is now not even worth a shit. BTC still worth $28k.
You should compare Enron with OneTel, they only several years apart.
@[Deactivated]: I think you completely missed the point of my post, sorry bud.
Amazing short term returns != amazing long term returns, and you can 100x your money only to lose it all later. That's the nature of gambling.
I've made a lot from crypto don't get me wrong, but anyone can see it's just about selling your bag to the next idiot to secure profit and hoping you don't lose money on it.
@DingoBilly: The crypto pump last year made many a lot of money, a lot. Many stories to be told that way.
I just haven't heard anyone lost a lot due to bought at the peak last year, besides the Luna fiasco recently.
there will be no further boom - my thoughts is this crypto thing is generational, the next gen will have seen all the scams and realise it's a massive grift and stay away, because over the next few years, those tokens/NFTs will have been sold to The Greatest Fool and no one will be even more foolish to buy them. How's that 'hedge against inflation' working out? who TF is actually going to use bitcoin for anything useful?
When looking back on this era people are going to say - remember that time when anyone could just print money/make nazi inspired pictures of apes and make off with bags of other peoples money and get away with it?!
I just xferred all my crypto off the exchange and am bunkering down…
as someone who invested in safemoon i feel your pain brother
Safemoon ≠ Investment
fair i only put like 200 in but it is essentially bust now so fml
I 'invested' some money at the casino this year too and lost. Got some enjoyment out of it already.
Reading up on crypto tax, are you guys simply stating a loss figure in your tax return and holding evidence til it's called upon? Or are you using a crypto tax calculator whereby you input your coin addresses and let it figure out all buy/sell transactions to determine your losses?
depends how many transactions you have imo
If u sell you lock in your gain / loss. I suspect loss!
Dammit, Clark Kent! Haven’t you listened to what Ma and Pa taught you?
Hodl btc. sell all alts. it's going to be a long while before alts recover, and many of them won't
I would ask myself these questions:
- When do you need the money?
- How long are you willing to stay invested for to wait for a positive outcome?
- Will the specific coins you invested likely be around and positive after the above 2 timeframes or are they just "meme" coins?
Just hold it from this point. There's a decent chance the market will rebound at some time in the next two years.
@Tldr Why did you buy #Bitcoin?
He thinks amazon flex is capital gain, he still got a lot to learn about investing.
if you have no capital gains this FY, what's the rush
also be weary of rebuying back as the ATO may deem it a wash sale.
OP can lock $1,000s in losses today for future use. They should think of it as a lifetime discount code on taxes.
Thanks Mate I understand capital losses
Yeh but they can do that next tax year, and the one after etc so no point rushing for this tax year
How are you down from last year? It was like the biggest bull run ever. I only used a bot and still up 7000%. Maybe i should start selling my services LOL
edit: Didn't read properly, never took out profits..
what kinda bot are you using? I've seen some in Udemy trainings but never wanted to go down that path!
trying to work out how to get rid of my very small $ coins as I can sell them for nUSD but can't cash out nusd (or at least with my exchange)
@Tldr
You only have a few more hours to sell and lock in the loss. It's best to do it early just in case you forget.
Almost not surprisingly, your story is identical to everyone I know who owns Crypto.
Good luck anyway.
Do you have any capital gains to offset with the capital loss?