Better than Muhammad Ali?
Better than Michael Jordan?
Better than Diego Maradona or Pele?
I immediately discount 'provincial' or 'non-world' sports participants - cricket, ice hockey, gridiron, AFL, rugby union, rugby league, baseball, etc, etc
Messi has won the Ballon D'Or 7 times, more than double anyone else except for Cristiano Ronaldo
pretty sure its scomo
it will come out soon that during his time as PM he took over the captaincy of the Australian cricket, rugby, league, tennis, hocket, basketball, swimming, athletics, and others
making the greatest mutli sports man ever
It's just a shame he didn't tell anyone else he was taking over, at the time.
you never announce you are GOAT! that's true GOATness
Why isn’t this guy on the list? Surely This is a universal sport?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Masturbator
Kicking a synthetic ball with caron fibre boots or someone that has a proper job all week and on the weekend is kicking a wet leather ball with leather boots and getting just as good a result?
Sir Bob C would have to be considered then.
If you're talking about the greatest sportsperson of all time in terms of how much better they were than the second best athlete, Bradman has to be up there!
In all other sports you can make an argument between a few greats, but when it comes to Bradman there is no comparison.
Additionally his bat was tiny compared to what they are using these days.
And instead of all of the latest advances in training he practiced by hitting a golf ball with a cricket stump against a corrugated metal rainwater tank.
Is Don, is good.
In all other sports you can make an argument between a few greats
Exactly. There's no equal to Bradman in cricket. No matter who you support in football/soccer there is at least an argument of Messi/Ronaldo.
Well, there is. It’s still a debate whether Sachin Tendulkar or Sir Bradman is the greatest.
Tendulkar played 957 matches across all three forms of the game, 634 of which were at international level, and scored 50,192 runs.
Bradman played 234 matches (24.45 per cent of Tendulkar’s tally), 52 of them at Test level, and scored 28,067 runs (55.92 per cent).
@gentlecrack: Even when you cherry pick a bunch of statistics they still make Bradman look significantly better than Tendulkar……
@gentlecrack: If you cut it in different ways you get different results.
In runs per match for example.
Bradman - 119 runs / Match
Tendulkar - 52 runs / Match
Not even the greatest footballer of all time - however if he wins the world cup he might be a shout for the GOAT
If you want to be the 'greatest' sports men you got to have world wide reach - C.Ronaldo is arguably not as good of a footballer but his brand is far more influential then Messi
I'd argue Jordan has a bigger brand then Messi
in general Messi is a great footballer but he doesnt have the genius sais quoi factor to be the 'greatest' sportsmen title
I'd say Pele or Madonna had a bigger profile in the sense they are still considered by some to this day to be the GOAT
Madonna
That turned quick.
Maradona*
No match for Madonna.
With sales of over 300 million records worldwide, Madonna is the best-selling female recording artist of all time. She is the most successful solo artist in the history of the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 chart and has achieved the most number-one singles by a woman in Australia, Canada, Italy, Spain, and the United Kingdom. Madonna has been awarded with seven Grammy Awards, two Golden Globe Awards, five Billboard Music Awards, and twenty MTV Video Music Awards. With a revenue of over U.S. $1.5 billion from her concert tickets, she remains the highest-grossing female touring artist worldwide. Forbes has named Madonna the annual top-earning female musician a record 11 times across four decades (1980s–2010s). She was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2008, her first year of eligibility. Madonna was ranked as the greatest woman in music by VH1, and as the greatest music video artist ever by MTV and Billboard. Rolling Stone also listed her among its greatest artists and greatest songwriters of all time.
@Baysew: nah Beyonce better than Madonna, I can even argue Mariah is more dominant in the charts as well
It would be interesting to compare how Messi compares for reach with e.g. Muhammed Ali in South America, Asia, Subcontinent and the Arab World, and Africa. I think more people in those cultures (which actually ) would know of Messi. In fact I doubt it would be close.
He certainly hasn't captured the English speaking world's imagination though, probably because he never played in England.
genius sais quoi
what does the genius know?
Je ne sais pas
genius sais quoi
/r/BoneAppleTea
And the worst poll award for the year goes to…..
Why not cricket? Popular for billions even if mainly Commonwealth countries. Obvious choice for best ever too.
Rugby Union? Probably the 2nd best world cup after soccer.
Rugby Union? Probably the 2nd best world cup after soccer.
that might be Volleyball
Surely it's Kim Jong-Il… "Kim shot 38 under, including 11 holes-in-one, at the 7,700-yard championship course at Pyongyang in the VERY FIRST golf round of his life, according to North Korean state media"
You have been made a moderator of r/Pyongyang
Is cognitive dissonance a hell of a drug?
who on earth made that claim?
Err Serena ain't the best female tennis player ever. There was an article that compared her to Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf etc and she was not in the same league.
Not sure why I was negged but here's the article for anyone interested. Seems that the SMH interpretation (which is what i read previously) was stronger in stating she isn't the GOAT (based on stats) then the original article.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/her-numbers-don-t-stack-…
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/sports/tennis/serena-will…
I actually think greatest is determined by more than just talent. It's you ability to consistently perform at the highest level.
Okay, that’s an acceptable metric to go by but I doubt you really know anything about R9’s career as he has had anything but longevity/consistency..
Messi hasn't done this
Bombaclat 🤦🏻♂️
An all time great who won two World Cups, two Copa Americas, two LaLiga titles and scored 295 goals in 452 games, ‘R9’ is ahead of Messi and his namesake.
In terms of out and out ability, I think Messi is the ultimate footballer. Ronaldo’s numbers are arguably slightly better, especially in big games.
Messi is a prick.
Guy plays sport for a living… All he does is kick a football around… FFS. Get back to me when he has done something worthwhile, like worked with a team on a successful cold fusion project, or found the cure for cancer, or combated world issues like hunger and homelessness. Movie and sports stars should be given much less oxygen time.
I never knew the people working on cold fusion were the greatest sportspeople of all time! Must be a helluva game.
What are you even going on about
They are talking about the greatest ‘sportsman’
If siesta'ing or bog snorkelling is considered a sport, then why isn't science research? It's a race to find a solution.
I remember when I was roughly 5, went on a ant stomping rampage at the farm, I must have gotten a thousand… Where’s my medal at ?
He's not even the best Argentine footballer of all time, let alone best sportsperson.
Best footballer = Maradona no question. Pele, Platini, Messi, Cruyff etc would be in the next rung.
Best sportsperson is impossible to answer. How do you compare Maradona to Owens to Jordan to Phelps etc. Statistically Bradman stands alone as the best sportsperson though based on the gap between him and the next best in his sport.
He's not even the best Argentine footballer of all time, let alone best sportsperson.
Best footballer = Maradona no question. Pele, Platini, Messi, Cruyff etc would be in the next rung.
Statistically, he’s ahead of all of them (minus the World Cup Ofcos)
Games are higher scoring than even 2 decades ago and strikers in particular are scoring at unheard of rates. If you purely looked at goals / game, you could argue that someone like Lewa is better than Pele or Salah is better than Cruyff or Best.
Greatness is more a function of skill, longevity, titles and stats. Maradona won a world cup with a garbage Argentina team which was apparently the worst in a generation. And domestic titles with Napoli to break the dominance of the big 3. Napoli mind you have never won before or since.
Messi umm has won titles with a Barca side that would be up there with the greats. And to date has failed to win only a Copa America with much better Argentina sides. No comparison really. I mean ask an Argentine and I'm sure most wouldn't hesitate and say Maradona is the GOAT.
But statistically as ozbarganite and dust point out, it's Bradman and it's not even close
Which planet are you on? The team that won in 1986 had Passarella, Valdano who were based in Europe with the rest of the squad from the Argentine league. Just becasue they didnt play in Europe doesnt mean they were crap. Bias much?
@FlyingMiffy: That seems to be what I've heard over the past decade or so in the media i.e. Argentina 1986 were an average, hard working team that lacked stars and was built around Maradona. e.g.
"Diego Maradona played in the 1982 World Cup with those heroes of four years earlier, Mario Kempes and Daniel Passarella. He forged a bond on and off the pitch with Claudio Caniggia in 1990 and they were joined by the brilliant Gabriel Batistuta in 1994.
But he won the trophy with none of them. He did it alongside an initially maligned but ultimately more functional group of players who became a band of brothers. In a 3-5-2 system similar to the one now adopted by Lionel Scaloni, they found a way to make it work."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12766113/lione…
It's Michael Jordan
I don't even like basketball, but you only have to watch about 30 seconds of Jordan highlights to see how insane he was.
Or what about Wayne Gretzky? His list of records is absolutely insane for one man in a large sporting league:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wayne_Gretzky#Regular_season_records_(40)
Messi seems to be one of a large number of guys who are really good at soccer.
Look at his achievements:
Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Class of 2009
6× NBA champion: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
5× NBA Most Valuable Player: 1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98[5][6]
6× NBA Finals Most Valuable Player: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998[7]
10× Scoring leader: 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 1989–90, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98[8]
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 1987-88[9]
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1984-85[10]
14× NBA All-Star: 1985, 1986 (selected but injured), 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003[11]
3× NBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player: 1988, 1996, 1998[12]
2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion: 1987, 1988[13]
Runner-up in 1985
3× Steals leader: 1987–88, 1989–90, 1992–93
2× Minutes leader: 1987–88, 1988–89
2× IBM Award winner: 1985, 1989
11× All-NBA selection:
First Team: 1987–93, 1996–98[14][15]
Second Team: 1985[14][15]
9× All-Defensive selection:
First Team: 1988–93, 1996–98[16][17]
NBA All-Rookie selection:
First Team: 1985[18][19]
7× The Sporting News Most Valuable Player: 1987–88, 1988–89, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98
The Sporting News Rookie of the Year: 1985
Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year: 1991
Ranked #1 by SLAM Magazine's Top 50 Players of All-time[20]
Ranked #1 by ESPN SportsCentury's Top North American Athletes of the 20th Century[21]
Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"
Selected in 1996 as member of two of the "Top 10 Teams in NBA History"
1991–92 Chicago Bulls (67–15; .817)
1995–96 Chicago Bulls (72–10; .878)
25 NBA Player of the Week [22] 16 NBA Player of the Month[23]
He's won as many World Cups as I have, therefore he's still neck and neck with me in that regard. He has to beat me first.
Messie has been real quiet since this was announced…
Its our Don Bradman.
The fishing is great today in this pond….
It's Angela White
There are balls involved
.
Messi is a GOAT at tax fraud … no one comes close to him in that category for sure.
Not sure of all time, you don't become a billionaire by paying your fair share of taxes.
I guess then he is GOAT for not paying taxes. That’s how he got billionaire
the only thing messi is 2nd to ronaldo for is tax fraud, ronaldo defrauded the spanish government 14.8 mil euro, messi only 4.1 mil euro
incidentally ronaldo "left" real madrid to join juventus real quick just before the verdict came down
Still paid more tax than most people
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”
― Ernest Hemingway
If you're looking at the numerical dominance, it's Bradman.
Or Gretzky if you're Canadian.
Bradman by a long shot. In order to match Bradman's dominance, basically you need to have a scoring average of 45 points as a basketball player or a batting average of 0.395. Gretzky is second and even when his margin is so wide compared to the other hockey players he is nowhere near Bradman. I don’t think his record will be broken anytime soon.
Messi isn't even the best footballer in Argentina - John Lennon, probably.
Richard Starkey
Arguing that Messi is the greatest of all time in his own sport is hard enough. No chance he'd be the greatest sportsman of all time.
It's all entirely subjective anyway, but I imagine "The Greatest Sportsman of All Time" would be someone who is not just the best in their own sport, but also transcends their sport in some way. People like Serena Williams, Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, etc.
THIS.
I'd say Federer has transcended the sport of tennis more than Serena has
Is Lionel Messi The Greatest Sportsman of All Time?
No, Nick Daicos is.
jeremycameronhandtoear.gif
The farmer?
isn't phil taylor most successful sportsperson alive
messi, maradonna, and henry all the goats at scoring with their hands
Ballon D'Or was only for Europeans until 1996. Which means Pele and Maradona were never eligible for one, making it a pretty worthless metric.
Gianluigi Buffon would be considered the best if people put pictures of keepers on their walls, but they don't. It's all about the flashy goal scorers.
Lance Armstrong?
Along with Cameron Smith, Billy Slater, David Warner, Steve Smith, Thierry Henry, Maradona and Tonya Harding.
Garry Kasparov
The GOAT is subjective. To me, its always been Zidane because I grew up watching him and admiring his skills.
He certainly knows how to use his head!
Oof, so many years later this still stings. What was he thinking?! Man became a poster child for instant regret as he walked right past the trophy. Even if he is a manager that's had a lot of success now and I loved his style of play, that's all I remember him by.
Looking at stats, the greatest sportsman of all time is Don Bradman. As his stats are '% more' than the other top 10 players in the mix of his sport. No other sportsman has the level of increase of % when comparing to other players in that sport. Messi is a good shout for GOAT in soccer, however his stats are to similar in % when compared to Ronaldo/Maradona/Pele etc
Averages for batsmen have two peaks over the last century, one is the early 2000s where "superbats" started being used and batsmen can make more runs, and the 1930s because The Don played 35 tests in that decade and averaged over 100 for the decade (Hammond also helped by averaging about 60 while playing 62 tests).
Walter Lindrum is similar though. He played billiards and people jokingly referred to Bradman as the Lindrum of cricket. He basically smashed everyone for years on end and holds records to this day. Another Aussie too!
The Don played without helmets or other protection todays players have and also there was no limit to the number of bodyline balls. The Don is so far above every other sportsman its not even a comparison imo of course.
Wayne Gretzky has him beat.
Nick kyriogs… He is the best
Stop glorifying athletes. This guy gets paid way more than he should for kicking a ball around…
I don't disagree that he gets paid a lot of money but where else do you suggest the money football generates goes? I'd rather it go in the athletes pockets than the owners of clubs
About 3.5 billion people excitedly tune in to see him (and other world cup players).
I think he's probably paid fairly for what he generates.
This is the biggest sport on the planet, you are competing with billion+ kids who too dream of becoming a professional footballer… 99.999% can’t/don’t..
Moreover, it’s all based on meritocracy. Messi gets paid based off the revenues he’s able to generate.
Would you rather Adidas and other corporate entities kept all that money, so Messi doesn’t get ‘paid way more for just kicking a ball’ ?
And if it’s just about ‘kicking a ball’
I’d love to see you try, Bob. Come on bring out those dusty studs and give us a show.
The whole fifa Qatar games is all corrupt but all the football junkies are able to look pass the inhumane practices and still glorify it. You can’t reason with these idiots, they still buy the same fifa game every time
100% Nicholas Latifi
*Goatifi
The Greatest Sportsman of All Time…
What about all those sportsmen that you see helping their opposition (when they fall or lose their way or whatever). They are more 'sportsman'-like that a lot of the people mentioned in this forum.
I love Messi.
But no, not even close.
If Year 11 and 12 werent already over, I'd have suspected this was a persuasive writing assignment.
The number of times Ive come across this this year… 🥱