Better than Muhammad Ali?
Better than Michael Jordan?
Better than Diego Maradona or Pele?
I immediately discount 'provincial' or 'non-world' sports participants - cricket, ice hockey, gridiron, AFL, rugby union, rugby league, baseball, etc, etc
Messi has won the Ballon D'Or 7 times, more than double anyone else except for Cristiano Ronaldo
What about other greats?
Like Halfthor Bjorsunn, Andersen Silva, Muhammad Ali, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Usain Bolt, Roger Federer, Pele, Barry Bonds, Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods, Kasparov, etc etc…
(not Lance Armstrong)
I immediately discount …
It's far more efficient to exclude options that may not provide the desired poll result.
Lets just exclude anything that isn't Soccer to make it safe.
Why do you say Federer and not Nadal?
Michael Phelps has to be the goat. Or Jordan.
Either way, Micahels are beasts….Tyson, Jackson, Schumacher, Phelps, Jordan, Johnson
Swimmers are overrated because of their ridiculous medal count as they can win 10 medals at every event because of all of the strokes and the distances. If only Usain could have done the 100m sideways and backwards.
@GodsSon23: Yeah fair point.
Although most swimmers don't traditionally win medals in multiple strokes or the short and long stuff like Phelps did.
Also backing up after each event was impressive.
100m sprint gold is equivalent to 10 swimming gold medals, plus most of the world can't swim, running on the other hand is different. I would include Micheal Johnson to the list
@mlburnian: Yeah, but swimming butterfly and freestyle is almost like doing 100m sprint and hurdle or long jump.
most of the world can't swim
Geez that makes being a good swimmer sound even more impressive when you put it like that :o
@isthisreallife22: No, swimming has to be taught unlike walking and running. Poor countries dont have the resources to teach kids swimming. Pretty obvious right?
Wayne Gretzky and his brother have the NHL points record for siblings in the NHL.
2,857 for Wayne and 4 for Brent.
Wayne Gretzky was the fastest person to score 1000 points in 424 games.
He was also the second fastest to score 1000 points. 1001 to 2000 took him 433 more games.
Points in NHL are given for both goals and assists. If you didn't count Wayne Gretzky's goals and only counted his assists he would still be the all time highest point scorer in the NHL.
I read recently that in the list of highest points scored in a season of ice hockey, Gretzky holds positions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11.
@macrocephalic: he was so dominant in the era he played that when picking players for fantasy leagues they either, banned him from being selected at all, split him in half and you picked Gretzky Assists or Gretzky Goals or they split him into three and you got Gretzky 1st period, Gretzky 2nd period or Gretzky 3rd period.
and he still usually got picked first when drafting.
Why would you include the drug cheat Barry Bonds ( who is not even the greatest baseballer of all time), but exclude the drug cheat Armstrong?
The only real answer to this question is Georges St-Pierre.
“The Blanket”
@Ulysses31: Tell me you don't follow MMA without telling me you don't follow MMA.
GSP is the GOAT in the ring and out.
@Willy Beamish: Followed MMA longer than you’ve been alive. UFC 1-3 on VHS months after the events, only sport I followed since.
Don’t get me wrong, GSP could decision better than anyone. But he was an athlete, not a fighter. Top dude. Yawn fighter.
@Ulysses31: Funny that you incorrectly assumed my age, and then you pretend you've been following mma since UFC started.
Any self respecting and legitimate MMA fan would never discount GSP's accomplishments in the cage as "the blanket" which just shows you don't actually follow the sport, maybe boxing is more your style if you just want to watch people bang, bro. Since you clearly don't understand what the M in MMA stands for
@Willy Beamish: You don't need to insult him so much when he just has a different opinion.
GSP, yeah he's great but I've definitely met ppl who don't like him. Not everyone can be a fan.
Johnny Sins
Who would have thought that all the worlds greatest sportsman nearly 80% of them live in america ?
Football is the only truely world game. Every kid in Africa, Latin America, Asia and Europe all play, and he is better than ALL of them. You dont need to be tall or have a fancy tennis racquet with training. Today and yesterday thats BILLIONs.
Tennis is very elite most of the worlds kids never had a chance to have a trainer working with them ever day since they were 10 like Federer. There are almost no tennis courts in all of Africa, on the other hand there are kids playing football in the millions.
Basketball is far more about height than skill and the number of men who play are a very small number. Secondly Shaq only ever scored ONE three pointer in his WHOLE career…which makes my point its about HEIGHT. If you are a regular height you basically have zero chance.
https://www.google.com/search?q=shaq+three+point+percentage
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.htm…
Secondly Mohammad Ali wasnt the greatest ever.
Getting your head smashed so you have Parkinsons surely cant be evidence of your greatness.
Eddie Merckx, Muhammad Ali or Pele.
The only three sportsman I can think of in global sports who have made such an enduring legacy that they're still spoken about like gods and considered a benchmark for achievement today.
I feel like this is an impossible question, but we can give half a decent answer. Best Sportsman should mean a couple things:
- great athlete
- difficult sport
- strong legacy
- reach to people
- external/altruistic aspects
Someone who is a great basketballer, will make a half-decent footballer. But someone who is a great footballer won't make a decent basketballer. It's because basketball is a more involved and intense sport. Perhaps the most out there. But you can go a step above and move to "combat sports" which is just another step above. So a great MMA would be a well rounded athlete, who can excel at many sports. But most sportspeople (eg distance running, swimming, golf, baseball, etc etc) won't excel at the more intense sports like Hockey, NFL, Basketball, Boxing, MMA.
So we can narrow things down to those top sports. Then look at other factors. The most memorable athlete here is Jordan. He's been a well known commodity for 30-years, and is a household name. And he's a specimen of a man. Though still short from the likes of Iron Mike Tyson. But in terms of sportsmanship, or thinking philanthropy, the greatest well… He stings like a butterfly, and floats like a bee. Cassius Clay, Ali.
These guys are legends compared to the likes Messi. It's almost like comparing Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks to the likes of the Ginyu Force.
My take on Jordan is that you'd always have a discussion… Jordan, O'Neill, James, Barkley, KAJ, Bird, ?
Maybe some sports just can't have an authentic GOAT.
To be an authentic GOAT you need to be in the rare position where within your sport everybody would reliably give the same answer, or at least wouldn't argue even if you weren't their personal favourite. Maybe people believe it, maybe they just know what the expected answer is, doesn't matter, it that person they all name is you, you're the GOAT.
Nope. No way any NBA can transition into a professional football player. They would fail. Look at Usain Bolt. Failed at the CCM in a practice match.
Lol football is a much more famous sport internationally than basketball. Jordan is famous for his merchandising more than than his time in chicago bulls. Messi's name is more famous than michael jordan in more countries and more households sinpky on the basis of football being the worlds game
Wayne Gretzky?
Yup, I think he might count.
Tony Hawk?
Measure of greatness?
Or a definition at least.
…as defined by poster position on OPs' bedroom ceiling.
Ballon D'Or 7 times
never heard of it.
It's a nespresso coffee pod, I think.
It’s a type of chocolate …duh
…. from aldi
condom maker?
Christian Dior rubbers? Maybe they smell good ;)
That shit is fixed.
You havent heard of that guy in the 6254BC who took down a record 15 wooly mammoth by himself?
Tharg? Dude is a legend. I had a signed poster of him on my wall as a kid
No, Og — the real OG.
Not going quite so far back but Jim Thorpe was an old-timer that I'd never heard of until recently and has quite a resume:
He won the gold medal in decathlon in what was his first and only time competing in it and set an Olympic record that stood for nearly two decades. Even more remarkably, because someone had stolen his shoes just before he was due to compete, he found a mismatched pair of replacements, including one from a trash can, and won the gold medal wearing them.
Yeah but how many balloon doors does he have, huh?
Frank Dux
He's one of the best footballers in the world - and after seeing his performance yesterday morning I would say easily in the top 5. What an incredible talent!
One of the best??
Well of course - wouldn’t you say that? Or are you implying he is the best?
I just hate saying that someone is the best, because it’s so subjective and open to so much interpretation.
I think Messi can comfortably making the top 3, behind Pele and Maradona of course.
How come Mr Federer isnt mentioned in your survey OP??
define why someone who went 237 consecutive weeks as rank 1 in tennis isnt ranked as top sportsperson of all time
I'm neither for or against, but for clarity did he play in a tournament in each of those 237 consecutive weeks?
@GG57: Not every week, but during that time his win-loss record was 381-39 and included 46 title wins.
One of his most underrated records in my opinion is that in 1749 professional matches (1526 singles, 223 doubles), he never retired mid-match.
Federer deserves to be in the discussion for sure
@camr00: So much angst when I clearly said that I'm neither for or against the comment from sharkie0123.
Anyway, in answer to your question, I don't know. I imagine not. Doesn't seem relevant to my statement either.
Probably more of a question for OP, as they are the one suggesting Messi is the best. I'm not.
@GG57: what angst? did he call you names or make personal attacks? when did refuting a point become angsty?
@Nedward: My innocuous comment has garnered 7 neg votes, when I clearly stated that I'm neither for or against the comment from sharkie0123.
I didn't even refute the comment from sharkie0123.
@GG57: I didn't neg you but I suspect it's because your question had a negative tone despite your claim that you were neither for nor against
because tennis isn't the top sport of all time either.
Serena was ranked world No. 1 in singles by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) for 319 weeks.
She also won more Olympic medals and more major titles than Roger. he isn't even the best tennisperson of all time.
@Antikythera: With all due respect to Serena, she cannot be compared to what The Big Three have achieved. Men's tennis is simply on another level, especially in this past era
@Kallavan14: I never know where to settle on those points. Someone can absolutely stand-out in their field… due to being phenomenal, or that everyone else is still crap. Saw that with women’s MMA.
@Ulysses31: I think you'll have to look at it on a case by case basis. Using your example of MMA, Nunes being the women's featherweight champ is a bit of a joke at the moment but Demetrious Johnson's domination of the flyweight division in his prime was absolutely due to him being phenomenal. In my opinion
@Kallavan14: are you gonna compare a tennis player to a cricket player or a basketball player? sure Federer is better at men's tennis than Bradman or Jordan but that's not what is compared.
Sure Roger is better at men's tennis than Serena. But why would you compare a men's tennis player vs a women's player? you should be comparing each sportsperson against their peers. Statistically Williams is better than Federer. So she is the superior tennisperson.
Because Rafa and Novak have each won more Grand Slam titles
Nadal on clay is imo the most dominative any sportsperson has ever been. At the french open, he has won 112 matches and lost only 3. That statistic spans his entire career, so it includes when he was just a teenager. Not to mention, it's during an era involving Federer and Djokovic. It's mind-blowing to me
Hard agree. If tennis on clay was a sport in itself, the domination of Nadal is incredible. The other big 3 men's tennis players don't have anywhere near this level of dominance on any surface/tournament.
Wow, great stat there. I knew he was dominant but not by that much!
Vasyl Lomachenko's amateur boxing record was 396 victories and 1 defeat, which he avenged. He also won 2 Olympic gold medals. Cael Sanderson went 159-0 as a Division I NCAA wrestler. He also won an Olympic gold. In no-gi BJJ, Gordon Ryan is a Five–time ADCC World champion, as well as winning several other world championships. Aside from all the gold medals, Michael Phelps still holds 4 world records.
My point is it's hard to compare different sportspeople from different sports and claim one is the most dominant ever.
You can argue he's not even in the best in his own sport. Nadal and Djokovic's accomplishments have exceeded his now.
it's not just the sport you play,
Djokovic is a great tennis player, off the court he is a NOB.
you would agree everyone in the tennis fraternity will say Federer is a great guy, not sure if they will say the same about Djokovic
ironically, the hate for Novak comes from outside of the tennis community.
Statistically speaking Djokovic is the best and the most complete in my opinion.
I consider Usain Bolt the greatest athlete of all time.
In terms of hardships faced and the influence made I love Manny Pacquiao the most.
@peekabooo: Don’t see how Djokovic can be given that Nadal has more slams than him. And that’s just tennis
@povertytrap: Djokovic is younger (he very likely to have more grand slams by the time he finishes). He was not allowed to play tournaments because of his vaccination status. He ranked no 1 for 7 years!! More than Federer and Nadal and he's younger and still going. Nadal is great as well and what happens in the next 5 years will make it clear. I'll be happier if Nadal can seal it because I like Nadal more 😂
Nadal and Djokovic are all time greats too and may have surpassed Federer in statistical terms
But in terms of pure talent and style of play, Federer remains untouched. In my opinion of course
Yeah exactly. Based on the votes though seems like there are a lot of die-hard Fed fans on OzBargain!
He's not even the best tennis player ever soooo
Who?
same…
I'm guessing the poll response is not what you were expecting op.
The poll is just an optional extra..real entertainment is in the body of the OP.
Even stain master carpets lorded his brillance way back in the 80s - "OH Mr Hart!! What a Messi"
#thatsracist
considered ONE of the greats in his sport in this given time… maybe,..
to consider him as the greatest sportsman overall is gross exaggeration of any kind
Not a cricket fan, but surely it is a world game. Some bloke called Don was ok
.
Donald Trump?
Don Smallgoods?
Don Quixote?
Is Don? Is good?
Here's an interesting article that statistically pits Bradman against elite athletes in other sports.
https://www.significancemagazine.com/sports/24-did-don-bradm…
Edit: I just saw this posted further down. Oh well.
Not even close