Well we’ve finally made it. A court ruling on smoking on balconies

maxyzee on 29/12/2022 - 19:53

Well this is something. I’m sure this was posted on one of the forums a couple of years ago.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/room-with-a-feud-apartme…

TLDR: An apartment owner complained to their strata about their neighbours smoking in the balcony and took through to the NSW high court which ruled in their favour.

It means that a precedent has now been set for any strata to ban any activity that strata seems to be to the detriment of other apartment dwellers.

Me personally I don’t like how this is going. I guess we’ll see where this goes.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Mechz on 29/12/2022 - 19:58
    +46

    If they own the place they're free to smoke inside.

    I don't see an issue.

    • Drakesy on 29/12/2022 - 20:05
      +32

      Yep, perfectly legal to hotbox your way to lung cancer in your own apartment (although for how long is another question).

      • johnfuller on 02/01/2023 - 15:19
        +1

        what if they smoke indoors, keep the doors open and blow the smoke outdoors ?

        • inasero on 03/01/2023 - 07:57
          +1

          One could argue that it's deterimentally affecting the health/comfort of other occupants - kind of like how there are noise restrictions

    • dcep on 29/12/2022 - 20:11
      +3

      By that, i supposed you could sniff yourself out in your room with the heavy stuffs without causing trouble to anyone right ?

      Until door get busted, that is.

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 20:39
      +17

      Yes, they should smoke in an enclosed room, and keep that stench to themselves. They should have a shower after every cigarette, wash their hair and brush their teeth.

      • Sinnerator on 30/12/2022 - 08:48
        +9

        What I am reading is that after every cigarette smokers should drink bleach.

        • Dsiee on 31/12/2022 - 14:59
          +2

          Preferably before a cigarette but after would be accepted I suppose.

        • Lund Eleven on 02/01/2023 - 22:27

          That's why it's an ingredient.

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 20:55
      +2

      So they are also free to commit crime as well?
      Listen to Taylor Swift or Barbara Streisand at 2am loudly?

      • Forfiet on 29/12/2022 - 21:02
        +2

        Nah, Because listening to Barbara would invoke the Streisand effect and then everyone would know your crimes. :P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

        • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 21:13
          +1

          That's how bad the crime is. No-one should be exposed to Barbara, let alone most of what's on today's alleged top 40.

      • CptnObvious on 02/01/2023 - 10:09

        Why would you play Taylor Swift at 2am?

        Dolly Parton is where it's at. Cranking up 9-5 at 2am will leave your neighbours dazed and confused.

      • serpserpserp on 02/01/2023 - 19:04

        It's me (smoker), hi, I'm the problem it's me.

      • ForkSnorter on 30/12/2022 - 10:07
        +46

        The problem is that smokers smoke all the bloody time. Having someone’s smoke blow up into your apartment is horrible.

      • smartazz104 on 31/12/2022 - 10:38
        +27

        Why should other people be inconvenienced; if you smoke, you should be inconvenienced.

      • cadwalader on 01/01/2023 - 16:11
        +3

        If the strata rules bothers you then don't smoke.

        I don't see an issue.

      • Quantumcat on 30/12/2022 - 00:11
        +74

        Would you be happy with someone filling their unit with cow manure and setting up a fan to blow the smell toward you multiple times a day, so that if you didn't want your home smelling like poo and your furniture and clothes getting poo smell embedded in them you had to keep all your windows shut, plus you couldn't spend any time on your balcony, which you have paid for, because the air smells like poo? And in addition the poo smell gives you a greater risk of cancer and dying a little earlier than you would have otherwise? After all it is their unit and if they want to swim in manure day and night that's their choice in their own apartment, according to you.

          • Pelicannn on 30/12/2022 - 07:11
            +41

            @maxyzee: Personally I’d rather smell like cow shit. At least I could blame that on being a farm boy than being stupid enough to smoke cigarettes.

          • Nametab on 30/12/2022 - 11:52
            -6

            @maxyzee: Some belief systems burn cow dung in ritual/sacred fires.

            Still want to keep arguing against this?

          • Poor Ass on 31/12/2022 - 14:01

            @maxyzee: Similar case had a neighbour complaint about a tenant that they never picked up their dog's shit in the back yard and smell waffled over to their house

            They complained to council and couldn't do anything. Is no different to gardeners that use a lot of fertiliser.

        • SlartiBartFozz on 31/12/2022 - 10:41
          -2

          Some people swear by it — https://nationalfile.com/report-indians-drinking-cows-urine-…
          Cure Covid they said… also one of the most extreme fetishes.

        • juki on 01/01/2023 - 00:35

          i'd probably resort to that if facing the same situation, yep my balcony tomatoes require a whole load of crap :) thanks for the inspiration

        • Nucleus Acumbens on 02/01/2023 - 19:44
          +1

          Meh, so you lose five years off the end of your life? They're just the five years you were going to wear bright fushia lipstick outside your lip line - you don't want them.

      • ChatCPT on 02/01/2023 - 13:49
        +1

        OP do you even smoke? Or are even aware of the effects of smoking? Access to voice your opinion doesnt equate to accuracy rather shows entitlement
        Your responses show a distinct lack of basic knowledge of the dangers of smoking not only to self harm but more importantly second hand smoke and how it endangers others.

        Think twice before making ridiculous comparisons. I'll make it easy for you….
        Alcohol doesnt float around in the air and give cancer to the person next to you!

        Personally this is way behind the times. NZ and many Euro nations are way ahead of us!
        Thank you to those patient and courageous owners for taking these selfish **** neighbours to court!

    • HeWhoKnows on 30/12/2022 - 08:34
      +22

      Both Strata laws and lease agreements are very clear on this

      "Residents must not interfere, or cause or permit interference, with the reasonable peace, comfort or privacy of neighbours."

      Many irresponsible smokers typically cause litter by tossing thier cigarette buds as well, which also contributes towards annoying other residents

      And "passive" cigarette smoke is far more harmful to others thereby affecting thier health

        • gromit on 31/12/2022 - 11:04
          +26

          If you are going to splash your alcohol through the windows of other residents then yeah you probably should have that banned.

        • TheRealCJ on 01/01/2023 - 10:07
          +6

          People ingested dangerous levels of lead for thousands of years too. Turns out humans aren't great at self-preservation.

          • Motek Benzona on 01/01/2023 - 10:10

            @TheRealCJ: "I didnt get where i am today by….."

            • TheRealCJ on 01/01/2023 - 10:11
              +2

              @Motek Benzona: "Helping kids today live well into their 80s would be unfair to all the kids in the past we let die in their 50s!"

              • Motek Benzona on 01/01/2023 - 11:14
                -3

                @TheRealCJ: Its not my problem what people choose to ingest, especially when its legal and on property they own. The same people moaning in (TBH) quite a disgusting manner on here would probably be the fiorst to complain to someone if a neighbout encroached 3mm onto their land. I do not want to help anyone i do not know to live longer, not that i could anyway.

                Everything wrong with humans is summised quite nicely in this thread. People need to simply mind their own business when someone else is doing something they are allowed to do.

                Obviously you did not get my initial CJ joke comment.. its ok :-)

                https://youtu.be/drlPbIWAz-E

                • TheRealCJ on 01/01/2023 - 11:15
                  +1

                  @Motek Benzona: I think you missed the quotation marks, making my comment also a joke.

                  • Motek Benzona on 01/01/2023 - 11:16

                    @TheRealCJ: Oopsies.. sorry :-) "I didnt get where i am today by missing quotation marks"

          • serpserpserp on 02/01/2023 - 19:06

            @TheRealCJ: Micro plastics too.

      • juki on 01/01/2023 - 00:38
        +2

        yes I wouldnt want my kids to be breathing in someones second hand smoke, they are allowed to enjoy their balcony also.

        lung cancer is a long agonising death

        • Motek Benzona on 01/01/2023 - 11:29
          -5

          So keep them away from people who are doing legal things in their own home or space rather than trying to control someone you do not know.. simples. I have 2 school age kids but having unprotected sex with a person some years ago does not give me the right to impose my will on others

    • Aneurism on 02/01/2023 - 10:03

      I guess this means that the precedent so vegans can now argue for people to have the smell of meat at a BBQ contained inside as well. This will be hilarious to watch unfold.

    • CalmLemons on 02/01/2023 - 22:42

      People should probably make all attempts possible at ceasing to smoke considering how bloody expensive smoking is from a financial point of view - let alone the health aspects.

  • Drakesy on 29/12/2022 - 20:00
    +57

    I struggle to see how this is a bad thing.
    You're using "activity" very loosely. Smoking has been for a long time shown to be a direct cause of cancer.
    I'd also like them to outlaw the smoking of meth on balconies while they're at it.

    Plus the smoke gets into neighbouring apartments and devalues them as well.
    Think of it as the strata doing the smoker a favour.

    • bargaino on 29/12/2022 - 20:23
      +25

      It used to be that I did not mind a smoking house-mate, as long as he did it outside in the courtyard.
      People in neighbouring units never complained. But when housing gets so dense that smokers are just a few metres from other people's windows, that is a real problem.
      Smoking and high-density living are not compatible.

      a direct cause of cancer

      People will say so is alcohol. So is everything. But tobacco, when used normally (10 cigs/day is typical now) is far, far more harmful than moderate drinking. There is no such thing as moderate smoking. I hate gambling, but have to admit that the typical gambler is probably having fun without losing the grocery money. There is no such defense of tobacco.

      • Morien on 29/12/2022 - 20:40
        +15

        People will say so is alcohol. So is everything

        But you can't have second hand alcohol… Although I'm sure where there is a will there is a way.

        • orangetrain on 29/12/2022 - 20:57

          I wish I didn't see vomit land in the courtyard but it can happen when drunks try to make other people deal with the consequences of being drunk.

        • jjjaar on 29/12/2022 - 22:30
          +9

          But you can't have second hand alcohol… Although I'm sure where there is a will there is a way.

          domestic violence enters the chat

          But no, you are right in the second hand alcohol to second hand smoke comparison in that one apartments alcohol intake does not impact another apartment.

      • kanmen on 29/12/2022 - 23:45
        +3

        I hate gambling, but have to admit that the typical gambler is probably having fun without losing the grocery money.

        You actually might find that the research says elsewise!

        • Lund Eleven on 02/01/2023 - 22:30

          I would imagine that the typical gambler just buys lottery tickets once a week.

      • ozify on 30/12/2022 - 12:31
        -2

        People will say so is alcohol. So is everything. But tobacco, when used normally (10 cigs/day is typical now) is far, far more harmful than moderate drinking. There is no such thing as moderate smoking. I hate gambling, but have to admit that the typical gambler is probably having fun without losing the grocery money. There is no such defense of tobacco.

        Actually alcohol is neurotoxic and there
        is no such thing as moderate use of alcohol either. There is no safe use of alcohol and the second hand effects of alcohol use are far, far more harmful such as violent crime, domestic violence, sexual assault and car accidents. The harms of alcohol are right up there with tobacco. There is just no defense of alcohol either.

        • bargaino on 30/12/2022 - 15:11
          +2

          You don't seem to be even trying to comprehend what was said.

      • Assburg on 31/12/2022 - 03:48
        +3

        Have you noticed as smoking became less common, obesity rates increased?

        I think refined sugar is more harmful and, whenever I smell sweet food I feel overwhelmed by the urge to eat.

        I don't know many people still smoking 10 a day. I might have 10 a year but I wouldn't want that right taken away from me.

        • smartazz104 on 31/12/2022 - 10:41

          Smoking does suppress the appetite after all.

        • bargaino on 31/12/2022 - 11:33
          +1

          Good for you, but most people find cigarettes very addictive.
          I lived in a cold climate, and saw the desperate nicotine-addicted office-workers huddled in freezing doorways, getting that hit when indoor smoking was banned.
          I couldn't imagine any of them doing that for a beer!

          • Assburg on 31/12/2022 - 17:28
            +1

            @bargaino: I am posting from northern Europe at the moment, can absolutely relate to this sort of suffering. But still…I can imagine everyone I know would step outside for a beer every hour or two if they could go back into work straight after 😃

      • Vool on 31/12/2022 - 22:21
        +6

        People in neighbouring units never complained

        Just because they never complained doesn't mean they were OK with it. My old neighbour was a chain smoker, I couldn't open my bedroom window at any time of the day or night because the room would smell like smoke within minutes. Didn't complain, couldn't imagine seeing a positive outcome coming from it.

        • serpserpserp on 02/01/2023 - 19:09
          +2

          This.

          This is so much more common than smokers realise.

      • Alzori on 31/12/2022 - 23:40
        +1

        The average pokies player in NSW loses over $4000 per year. That is more than twice my grocery budget personally, so year I think the typical gambler is f'ed in this country. (Other states average $2800/year/player, still more than I pay for food).

        Gambling in this country is insane.

        https://www.smh.com.au/national/average-nsw-pokies-loss-way-…

        • Reggie74 on 01/01/2023 - 18:39
          +1

          The thirst created by gambling companies for people to gamble is hideous and what makes it worse is governments thrive on the taxes created by it

        • serpserpserp on 02/01/2023 - 19:10

          You spend less than $40 a week on food?

          • Alzori on 03/01/2023 - 08:44

            @serpserpserp: Yeah something like that, could be more like $50, I don't track it that closely. Copied a response I gave to someone who messaged me:

            Probably not the most nutritious at the moment haha, but it's ok. This is just for one person.

            Cereal and coffee in the morning, usually with some fruit and yoghurt.

            Lunch is simple, often just toast, some fruit maybe, musli bar, other snacks like nuts and chips or chocolate, or one of the meals from below.

            Dinner has been mostly supermarket frozen premade meals more recently, not enough time to make stuff. Mostly sub $5. When I do cook stuff for myself I'll cook family sized meals and freeze the remaining portions for future lunch/dinners, those are usually $3-5 per portion. Easy to have 3 or 4 options for meals with frozen portions in the fridge to choose from, plus the supermarket meals. I have a lot of single meal sized containers. I just cook what I like, fried rice, carbonara, noodles, burritos, shepherds pie, stir fry, soups, etc.

            Drinks are mostly the 70c soft drinks/soda water/mineral water options. Alcohol and dining out I wouldn't include in the grocery budget, but I don't have much of either.

            • serpserpserp on 03/01/2023 - 15:09
              +1

              @Alzori: So it is a minimum ~$60 if you equate $3 a meal 3 times a day a week. No snacks or anything else. So probably actually much higher.

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 20:56
      +3

      How do I upvote this by 5?

      • jjjaar on 29/12/2022 - 22:31

        Get 5 friends to join OzB and vote?

    • maxyzee on 29/12/2022 - 23:49
      -5

      Well ok. Smoking in general is a harm in most objective measures. But I might counter that with smoking isn’t illegal (yet). And for most people a smoke represents a relief or pressure release, that small escape from reality to build the energy to get on with it.

      I guess you’d surmise then that I’m a smoker or ex smoker and I know that feeling. I guess for me it’s not really a problem since I live in a free standing house it’s not really a problem for me. But I do have a dog that’s still has his puppy tendencies so he likes to bark whenever out so like any person with a moral conviction I try to make sure he’s never outside at night or even the day whenever I’m home cos I know how annoying a barking dog is.

      I guess my point is there’s always another side to the story and just demonising one side doesn’t lead to the outcome you might think.

      • Quantumcat on 30/12/2022 - 00:17
        +4

        If you are truly considerate of others you'll smoke inside with all the windows shut, and not open them until several hours after you've finished your cigarette. If you have multiple a day you'll leave the windows shut permanently. Either that, or smoke in a common area of your apartment block where there are no windows nearby or air conditioning air intake vents.

        • maxyzee on 30/12/2022 - 00:31
          -3

          Ok they do that. Would someone that’s sensitive to the smell of various odours be able to make the same demands. Or if one dweller happens to be allergic to cat hair then should that cat remain in the apartment with all windows shut or in a common area where there are no windows nearby or air conditioning air intake vents?

          • Quantumcat on 30/12/2022 - 09:07
            +8

            @maxyzee: Cat hair does not permeate through gaps in the walls and windows and infect a whole apartment. If you are a smoker you probably have a very impaired sense of smell and don't realise how strongly it can be smelled even from just one cigarette. Why else do you think people get so mad about smokers and they don't care about people with cats? People that are allergic to cats only react when they're in a house where a cat lives, or if a cat comes and rubs against their leg or they pick a cat up. There are loads of cats spending time outside but they don't bother people that are allergic to cats who also go outside. But you only have to be within around 20 metres of a smoker to be affected

          • serpserpserp on 02/01/2023 - 19:14
            +2

            @maxyzee: Various odours and cat hair don't give people lung disease.

          • Lund Eleven on 02/01/2023 - 22:31

            @maxyzee: I mean, cats should be inside anyway.

      • andrew229 on 30/12/2022 - 23:29
        +2

        I think it’s good smokers can’t negatively affect their neighbours . A long overdue rule change

      • p1 ama on 31/12/2022 - 13:50
        +5

        Smoking in general is a harm in most objective measures. But I might counter that with smoking isn’t illegal (yet). And for most people a smoke represents a relief or pressure release, that small escape from reality to build the energy to get on with it.

        Yes, but you are missing the point - smoking is not illegal, but there should be restrictions on activities which cause direct harm to others.

        For example, cars have to pass emissions regulations, we cannot dump toxic chemicals into waterways, cannot play loud music at 2am consistently…etc.

        I personally have no issue with smoking and I generally believe we have laws that are way too restrictive with respect to drugs and what people can do with their own bodies.

        However, the issue with smoking is that it becomes a consistent pattern - it is that people who smoke on their balcony will do so at repeatable times day-in, day-out. If you have a smoke on your balcony once a month, I personally don't think people would care. Like what you say, it's a matter of tolerance and degree - a dog barking once a while is okay, a dog barking every single night is not, loud music once in a while is okay, loud music every single night is not, same with smoking.

        • banana365 on 31/12/2022 - 20:03
          +4

          I personally have no issue with smoking and I generally believe we have laws that are way too restrictive with respect to drugs and what people can do with their own bodies.

          Restrictions on personal choice is a concern, but that's not what this change is addressing though, it's stopping smokers from affecting others' bodies. It doesn't stop smokers from smoking, it only forces a consideration for others that many smokers do not or cannot have.

    • t-money on 01/01/2023 - 08:35
      +3

      OP is clearly a smoker

  • orangetrain on 29/12/2022 - 20:17
    +16

    Is it okay to helicopter-projectile vomit with some landing into my neighbour windows? No?

    Is it okay to piss spray everywhere in my courtyard despite some of it landing into my neighbour's courtyard? No?

    Why would smoke from my neighbours be ok??

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 20:30
      +1

      Or even worse, if they cook seafood on a bbq. Worst than the stench of cigarettes.
      I am an EX=SMOKER.

      • Seaword on 29/12/2022 - 20:42
        +13

        Things that happen every now and again vs things happening multiple times a day.

        • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 20:52
          -1

          Let's start with a ban on cigarettes completely, and have the government give away Nicorette patches, gum etc. It's no worse than, giving away face masks, cv tests and vaccines during the pandemic?

        • Jhonka on 31/12/2022 - 15:10

          Have you ever lived near a family who stink up the place with their cooking every day?

          • belongsinforums on 31/12/2022 - 17:03

            @Jhonka: Yep. Lived next to a bunch of saudis. Hallway always stunk but at least it wasn't cigarette smoke

          • TheRealCJ on 01/01/2023 - 10:08
            +4

            @Jhonka: Strong smelling food doesn't literally damage your body.

    • franco cozzo on 30/12/2022 - 05:48
      +1

      lol…you sound like youd be great at parties!

  • BewareOfThe Dog on 29/12/2022 - 20:28
    +18

    And the biggest killer off people in the 20 th century, was not:-
    *WW2
    * WW1
    * Spanish Flu, …..
    It was smoking related deaths. To think we were worried about AIDS in the 80s.
    Estimated at 100 million, and no doubt, quite a few was friendly fire like both world wars. 9 of 10 of my mother's side died from cancer, or smoking related like me pop, and his wife. Both heavy smokers, like most of their kids.
    I am an EX SMOKER.

    • jjjaar on 29/12/2022 - 22:34
      +10

      Congrats for quitting. Not an easy feat at all.

      I have neighbours who smoke and I can’t keep windows open, so this ruling is personal. I hated cigarettes beforehand, and I have lost family members to smoking. Basically, I hate the whole thing.

      But I also appreciate that it is an addiction and addictions are not easy to overcome, so I always applaud anyone who is willing to try. The fact that you have succeeded is incredible.

    • franco cozzo on 30/12/2022 - 05:42
      +2

      It is estimated that traffic collisions caused the death of around 60 million people during the 20th century.

      BAN CARS THAT KILL NOW!!!!

      • kiitos on 30/12/2022 - 07:38
        +7

        Can I go to work, get the shopping, or go on holiday by smoking a cigarette?

        • Assburg on 31/12/2022 - 03:54
          +1

          No but the cigarette will take you places a car can't

          • CocaKoala on 31/12/2022 - 16:46
            +3

            @Assburg:

            No but the cigarette will take you places a car can't

            The only "place" smoking will take you to will be the afterlife. A car will get you there much quicker; just drive into a tree.

            • Assburg on 31/12/2022 - 17:25
              +1

              @CocaKoala: Only in excess will consumption lead to death.

              Have you ever had a cigarette and a coffee? People who make a habit from it hardly benefit but..

              Worth giving it a try if you've got work to do but just can't pull yourself out of a hole.

              • CocaKoala on 31/12/2022 - 21:25

                @Assburg:

                Have you ever had a cigarette and a coffee?

                I would be alright with just a coffee without something that makes me smell like a dog pissed all over my face.

                People who make a habit from it hardly benefit but..

                Yeah, that's what we're talking about here: people smoking incessantly in their balconies without any regard for their neighbors and stinking up the whole building.

                Worth giving it a try

                No, it isn't.

                • Assburg on 01/01/2023 - 02:17

                  @CocaKoala: I think there's a word for people who know everything about everything without having experienced it.

                  • freefall101 on 01/01/2023 - 07:25
                    +2

                    @Assburg:

                    I think there's a word for people who know everything about everything without having experienced it.

                    Doctors?

              • Quantumcat on 31/12/2022 - 23:23
                +1

                @Assburg:

                Worth giving it a try if you've got work to do but just can't pull yourself out of a hole.

                You're in a hole in the first place because you are addicted to nicotine and can't function normally without it.

                The rest of us are never in the hole - and the way you function on cigarettes and coffee, we function that way naturally every day with no stimulants needed.

                • Assburg on 01/01/2023 - 02:22

                  @Quantumcat: I think the last 2 cigarettes I had were..

                  1. During the 10 minute break in the middle of a 5.5 hour exam.

                  2. Had to finish a huge work project but also felt less than 100 because of a cancer diagnosis in the family.

                  People who work shifts in organisations that don't exactly play by the same rules as your 9-5 might occasionally find themselves in a hole. Police officers after attending an accident.
                  Military personnel on operations.
                  Doctors after a death.

                  Dunno why you are so quick to assume everyone else is an NPC.

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