[RESOLVED] Car Skidded and Almost Lost Control When Turning, Need Help

AussieBogan on 09/02/2023 - 20:58
Last edited 12/02/2023 - 11:32 by 1 other user

Hi OzMechanics,

I have a Kia Rio S 2015, and recently my car started to skid when turning right in roundabouts in wet conditions.

When turning right in a roundabout, the car started to shake and skid (slide to the right) in the middle of the roundabout, and the Traction Control Light was on. After 3-5 seconds the car came back to normal. This happened three times last month and I only drove around 5 times in wet conditions last month. Two of the three times happened in the same roundabout. My turning speed was not fast (10 -15 km/h), my tyres were nearly new and pressure of the four tyres was normal.

I had my car serviced recently after having these issues and the mechanic said everything was normal. I almost started to think my turning method was wrong but not sure where it went wrong. How I did my turn: I stopped before the roundabout to wait for other cars to pass, when cleared I hit the gas gently to accelerate. When the car reached the middle of the roundabout, I hit the gas again gently as the car was near to stopping. At this point the car started to shake and skid/slide. The roundabout that had two events happen was a two-lane roundabout, I was on the right lane (the lane close to the centre of the roundabout) and it looks like this.

What should I do to avoid this happening again?

Automotive Car Kia

Comments

  • Keplaffintech on 09/02/2023 - 21:00

    What tire brand and model did you buy?

    • AussieBogan on 09/02/2023 - 21:07

      Front tyers were half price Pirelli Powergy from this deal, rear tyers were old Viking tyers but still in very good condition.

        • AussieBogan on 09/02/2023 - 21:12
          +19

          I was thinking to change all four TYREs together during the black Friday sale, but the mechanic from My Car said my rear TYREs were nearly new and no need to change. Thanks for pointing out my TYRE typo, surprised Grammarly didn't pick that up.

        • bboyballsohard on 09/02/2023 - 21:21
          +5

          The rears won’t be causing the traction control to take over.

          A lot of times it is because of the driver not turning smoothly in the wet. One tyre is slipping or spinning too much so the tcs engages the abs pump to stop that slipping wheel. Car will shudder and jolt.

          Sometimes it happens on tram rails or bumps on the road too.

      • Richardc on 09/02/2023 - 22:36
        +11

        check the age(stamp on the side wall of tyre) of your tyres first, they might look new but old rubber can became hard and lose traction.

      • sAmiZZle on 12/02/2023 - 12:42
        -2

        New tyres on front are throwing the traction control system off because you have different tyres front and back and old tyres with less tread on the back with a different rolling diameter to the front.

        • bmerigan on 12/02/2023 - 22:37
          -1

          Seems unlikely that "different size" scenario would only happen in the wet

          • sAmiZZle on 13/02/2023 - 11:39
            +1

            @bmerigan: Disagree. Mixing old and new tyres is a bad idea, let alone two different brands, given that two different tyre brands of the same sidewall size can actually be different rolling diameter. Add to this the fact one pair was worn only makes the situation worse. Turning in wet conditions would accentuate this even further. I have a BMW M140i and this is a widely known and accepted issue on those forums which is why I said this. I'd say the same applies here.

            • bmerigan on 13/02/2023 - 12:00

              @sAmiZZle: Any confusing of the cars electronics caused by the differing rolling circumferences would be a bigger problem on a dry road.

              • sAmiZZle on 13/02/2023 - 14:41

                @bmerigan: Yeah it should be a problem in the dry as well. Wonder what the actual issue was then?

    • HeWhoKnows on 10/02/2023 - 07:31
      -1

      Well depends what country you are in..

      Are they tires, tyers or in Australia …Tyres????

    • HeWhoKnows on 10/02/2023 - 07:33
      -4

      What is "normal" tyre pressure

      Suggest you run them at 36 psi which is what tyre retailers recommend nowdays

      • eckorock on 10/02/2023 - 12:19

        source for this claim pls?

        • Assburg on 10/02/2023 - 15:00
          +1

          Yeah it's just common knowledge among people who drive lots… 40-45 psi if you just drive on roads. Consider 40 if you occasionally find yourself on gravel.

          • sAmiZZle on 13/02/2023 - 14:43

            @Assburg: That's a very high pressure and not all tyre sizes are the same. Generally the larger a tyre the less pressure it needs. A defensive driving school will recommend carrying more pressure than what the manufacturer recommends. But, this all depends on your avg vehicle load.

            • Assburg on 13/02/2023 - 15:01

              @sAmiZZle: That's true too but this is ozb, we're all driving weight reduced circa 2010 Toyota sedans!

      • singlemalt72 on 10/02/2023 - 13:36
        +3

        For best braking and traction, add 4-5 psi from recommended (source, multiple driver training sessions at Murcotts) - Suggested tyre pressures from manufacturers are under inflated to provide more compliance in the suspension.

        • PiasNeng on 10/02/2023 - 14:53

          is that more or less?

        • Finde on 11/02/2023 - 00:31
          +15

          That is incorrect.

          Higher tyre pressure provides worse traction and braking but better fuel economy.

          Lower tyre pressure provides better tyre traction and braking but worse fuel economy.

          • Yawhae on 11/02/2023 - 07:24

            @Finde: That's right. The less pressure in the tyre the more tyre touches the road, thus increasing grip. However tyre pressure needs to be set correctly for tyre brand, weight of car, and road conditions.

        • Viper8 on 11/02/2023 - 07:49
          +3

          I've done several defensive driver courses and heard the same rubbish.

          Lower pressure = longer contact patch = more straight line grip. Hence why drag cars run on 15 psi. Also more comfort.

          For cornering traction, fuel economy, and steering feedback you want to go higher than recommended.

          A lot lower than recommended causes excessive wear on shoulders and heat in the sidewalls at high speed, while a lot higher than recommended causes excessive wear in middle of tyre as it balloons out.

          You should inflate your tyres to the pressure recommended by the car manufacturer, assuming you're using OEM supplied tyres.
          If you're not then the ideal pressure is really an unknown as its unique to vehicle mass, suspension and the tyre.

          I believe they tell people to over inflate as most people won't adjust pressures on a monthly basis, so in that case initially over inflating gets you more time until you end up severely underinflated - which is quite common.

    • ssfps on 11/02/2023 - 22:02

      @AussieBogan
      Something worth checking is the manufacturing date of your tyres. Look up online how to read the date-stamp (usually 4 digits). Sometimes tyre places will sell new old tyres, eg the tyre was made 3-4 years ago and it sat in a warehouse perishing since then.

      If your tyres aren't the culprit, you should elaborate more on the "shaking" you experienced. Was it a judder that you could hear more than see? Was the shake felt in the brake pedal? Perhaps the shaking was felt more in the steering wheel (water splashed up on the power steering belt/pump?) or in the car body itself (like an issue with driveshafts/suspension/bearings)?
      Only asking because personally i wouldn't describe my ABS activating as the car itself shaking.

      • bmerigan on 12/02/2023 - 22:39

        Would be spinning the front wheels (FWD car)

  • Gnostikos on 09/02/2023 - 21:07
    +16

    New tyres. /thread

    • dtc on 09/02/2023 - 21:57
      +1

      Read comments before making definitive statements. /commentator

      • Xistn on 10/02/2023 - 07:55
        +20

        Haval be like HOLD MY BEER

    • TheWineFamily on 11/02/2023 - 09:36
      +1

      What about /tread

    • drprox on 11/02/2023 - 13:08

      maybe some driving lessons too

    • AutomationGuy on 11/02/2023 - 15:31

      Front tyres are new Pirelli - want to revise that snap decision?

  • zonra on 09/02/2023 - 21:12
    +3

    Were you maintaining a low constant speed through the turn/roundabout, or were you letting it slow down to almost stopping then accelerate again mid turn?

    • AussieBogan on 09/02/2023 - 21:13
      +3

      I was letting it slow down to almost stopping then accelerate again mid turn, sounds like I was wrong?

      • zonra on 09/02/2023 - 21:19
        +16

        I would say so. I’m no driving expert but I keep a constant speed through the turn. I think it’s likely to spin out/skid when you either go too fast or you change your speed suddenly mid-turn. Gentle acceleration/deceleration shouldn’t cause a spin out but it’s hard to gauge how hard you were changing your speed.
        Not sure how to describe it but I can always sort of feel the limit when my car’s about to spin out (losing traction), and that’s never at near-stopping speed, wet road or not.
        P/s: this is all assuming your tyres are good and no oil on road.

        • Nebargains on 11/02/2023 - 07:42
          +1

          I agree that seems like odd technique but the whole thing seems pretty odd. My car has traction control and it has to be wet and for me to accelerate reasonably hard (i.e. not gently) for it to engage, accelerating gently as op described, even if odd in the situation shouldn't be engaging traction control IMO.

      • viper8548 on 09/02/2023 - 22:49
        +1

        accelerating from stop is where you lose traction in the wet, especially while turning, try maintain a low speed.

        Also are you just losing traction when you accelerate (ie engine reving but car not moving much) or is your rear sliding outwards during the turn??? more info needed

      • Chong on 10/02/2023 - 13:56
        +3

        As @zonra explained, should be a slow constant speed (actually better phrased as go as fast as you are comfortable with), with a touch of acceleration once you pass the apex of the turn.

        If you suddenly speed up or slow down it can cause under or over steer which gives you the "sliding" feeling. Especially when its wet, the effects of over and under steer will be bigger since there is less traction.

        This should have been explained to you when you were learning to drive. Our second car is also a Rio, its literally like a go cart, you point the head it just goes wherever, negligible body roll or sliding. Surprisingly engaging drive compared to our "main" car a station wagon

      • Viper8 on 11/02/2023 - 07:54
        +7

        Stop all this mid-corner braking and accelerating.
        Brake before the corner, coast through the corner whilst looking at the exit (not the apex), then accelerate progessively out of the corner after you pass the apex.

      • chartparker on 12/02/2023 - 18:58

        If you're in a front wheel drive car (which you are) it sounds like when you slowed down and accelerate halfway through you shifted the weight towards the rear of the car, unloading the front (drive wheels) and inducing understeer. The shuddering was your traction control/ABS trying to regain control and traction to the front wheels.

        Maybe you should try a defensive driving course? Not being facetious by the way

  • SBOB on 09/02/2023 - 21:17
    +24

    When the car reached the middle of the roundabout, I hit the gas again gently as the car was near to stopping

    Perhaps learn how to maintain a constant throttle input.

    • Gnostikos on 09/02/2023 - 21:21
      +14

      It's a Kia Rio S with 99hp/133Nm of torque, not a Mustang.

      You could use 50% throttle and it should still be gripping even when navigating a roundabout.

      Check out this video at 6:11.

      OP's tyres are either some cheap, nasty garbage or weren't sold as new when he bought them.

      • bboyballsohard on 09/02/2023 - 21:57
        +22

        I doubt it’s the tyres, it’s the driver or road surface.

        The rio is a fwd with uneven length drive shafts - this is prone to torque steer or uneven power delivery especially in turns and power out. It’s not unheard of for a light fwd to loose traction on acceleration as it’s weight will be shifted to the rears causing the traction control to engage. Sometimes the shock absorbers are a culprit too

      • chartparker on 12/02/2023 - 19:01

        Road conditions, road surface, driver input etc. I'm a pretty experienced driver and still managed to spin my under powered 1.6L golf around that damn Greensborough roundabout. Off camber road, slippery conditions (first rain in a while) and not paying enough attention resulted in understeer followed by lift off over steer.

        Humans are the biggest factor in road incidents

      • jvsnumberonefan on 15/02/2023 - 02:33

        Check out this video at 6:11

        That's in dry and that is not a tight turn relative to a roundabout.

    • kerfuffle on 09/02/2023 - 21:18
      +1

      Was gonna say ha. Rio's been axed in Australia too

      • SnoozeAndLose on 09/02/2023 - 21:21

        it is like a newer version of the Excel

        • freefall101 on 10/02/2023 - 12:16
          +6

          Kia 365?

          The Excel was a surprisingly good car for the price, dunno what there is to complain about it. It was the cheap, reliable car that really made Hyundai an international brand.

    • websterp on 09/02/2023 - 22:05
      -2

      This wouldn't have happened if OP had a Tesla.

    • Dreamcast on 10/02/2023 - 12:55

      Job to zero?

  • altomic on 09/02/2023 - 21:23
    +6

    Username does not check out

  • SF3 on 09/02/2023 - 21:41
    +5

    my car started to skid when turning right in roundabouts

    The Bermuda roundabout.

    What should I do to avoid this happening again?

    Try a different aroundabout.

  • Keplaffintech on 09/02/2023 - 21:53
    +4

    This is a weird one. at the speeds you're going the only explanation would be bald, very cheap, or very old tyres.

  • thepigs on 09/02/2023 - 21:53
    +2

    could be some spill on the roundabout that makes it slippy in the wet. just drive slow!

  • Caped Baldy on 09/02/2023 - 21:57
    +7

    Buy a set of wets, intermediate and slicks

  • randomusername2017 on 09/02/2023 - 22:22

    mechanic said everything was normal

    Brakes and suspension checked lately?

    Uneven road surface?

  • GLO on 09/02/2023 - 22:28
    +7

    What happened Mr Drifter!

  • Brian McGee on 09/02/2023 - 22:38

    Could be a hotbed for diesel exhaust buildup if it’s a bus route. Are the tyres you bought ‘eco’ tyres? They are the worst in the wet.

  • cloudy on 09/02/2023 - 22:39
    +2

    Try more roundabouts, if it happens frequently at a few roundabouts then you know it's your car. It's probably your car anyway, but…just to eliminate the surface as the factor, which is important given you shouldn't skid at those speeds…. unless you're on ice.

  • Kelsy on 09/02/2023 - 23:12
    +1

    Driven an old lancer before with front wheels Toe and Camber alignment off. Really fun to drive, 1.5 NA does burnouts easy off the lights and can barely turn a corner! Check your alignment :0)

  • bobbified on 09/02/2023 - 23:17
    -1

    Sounds like aquaplaning.

    It happened to me once before late at night with an AWD vehicle - luckily there were no other cars around. I changed all four tyres after that and it's never happened again.

    • skillet on 10/02/2023 - 16:20
      +3

      10-15kmh too slow to aquaplan.

      • bobbified on 10/02/2023 - 17:09
        -1

        When it happened to me, I was going very slow around a corner. It was dark and raining heavy. I slowly slid sideways with the brakes on for what seemed like forever. Then the (high profile) tyres gently hit the kerb and that's what stopped me.

  • vice on 09/02/2023 - 23:31
    +2

    This happened to me in an AWD Kia Sorento - it had a mode selector with Eco / Comfort / Sport / Auto modes, I had it on Eco. Have left it in Comfort mode ever since and has not repeated. Not sure if applies to you OP but might be worth a check. Tyres were in good condition was the gentlest of acceleration through a mild downhill turn at only 25 km/h about, road was wet.

  • Mungulz on 10/02/2023 - 06:13
    +13

    Hey mate you probably need new rear tyres too, Viking is brand I've never heard of and I'm sure they're rubbish.

    Here's a tip

    If you steer a corner and the car doesn't turn and goes straight - that's called understeer and that's your front tyres loosing grip.
    If you steer a corner and the car turns too much, and you start sliding sideways, that's your rear tyres losing grip. That's called oversteer.

    Roundabouts can be slippery at the best of times, they're usually off camber to begin with, meaning the shape of the road wants your car naturally to slide off it, not into it.

    Even in my car an i30N with performance tyres I've still been surprised at the lack of grip on a lot of roundabouts. There are several factors at play, contaminates on the road, the road surface, and the road camber. However you shouldn't be losing control at speeds of 15-25KMH as long as you get those rear tyres changed.

    What you've done is put two good tyres on the front, and bad tyres on the rear, making the car unpredictable, as the front grip is great enough to make the rear swing out.

    • JustASmoothSkin on 10/02/2023 - 23:59

      New tires could help but I am going to say the viking tires arent maccas trays (could certainly be wrong as never heard of the viking brand) but should generally be most likely in there best element on the rear end of a rio. All they have to do is get dragged around by the front end, oil is a good culprit for sliding out but in most cases its simply the driver over extending with a fwd that causes a slide out. Cheap front wheel drives are unforgiving on a wet cambered turn and catch many people by surprise, I personally love throwing my cars around (in a safe enviroment) but my civic for example was unnearving in the wet, a car I would have no issue throwing into corners at 50 + km/h would potentially slide or spin out when casually going into a wet roundabout doing 15km/h.

      AWD can also be similar as many are not AWD's all the time and generally drive only the front unless certain conditions are met. Wet conditions on a roundabout often not fulfilling these conditions till after traction has been entirely lost.

      In short, see if the road at this roundabout is actually level and not with a angle exceeding a couple degrees (all thats needed for water to run off), that it is not a main road for trucks and buses as the build up of oil and diesal will make traction suffer and take extra precautions in the wet. The road is unpredictable in the wet, no matter what vehicle you drive or how good you are at driving. I know people that run drag, drift and burnout cars that have and will continue to get caught out at a wet turn and these people live traction, sideways and spins.

  • Euphemistic on 10/02/2023 - 06:33
    +7

    Which end of the car started to slide? Front = too much go pedal. Rear = need better tyres.

    Go practice in the wet some more without anyone around. Learn how far you can push the car without it sliding.

    Posts like this make me seriously worried about being on the roads. If you don’t know what happened you haven’t learned to drive properly.

  • silenthillrocks on 10/02/2023 - 08:09
    +1

    Having all 4 tyres the same condition/same model is better

  • sareth on 10/02/2023 - 08:12
    +3

    You're accelerating too hard and putting too much torque through to the outside tyre. It already has to traverse a much greater distance than the inside tyre, while traction is shifting to the inside tyre, and then you're demanding it suddenly increase speed even more. Keep a low and consistent speed instead, in a low gear, and then accelerate as you straighten out

  • Sinnerator on 10/02/2023 - 08:19
    +1

    OP, honestly now, were you driving as your username?

  • doctordv8 on 10/02/2023 - 08:31
    +1

    If your tyres and pressures are within specification for the vehicle, and you have all ECU & BCM Faults cleared, ie no other existing Fault Codes….then.

    Time to take your mechanic to that roundabout on a dry and a wet day day,
    although they will push it thru any roundabout to effect a proper road test diagnosis.

    If you can manufacture the Issue, he will also, and this is how to start a correct diagnosis.

    • Snoozer on 10/02/2023 - 09:43

      Good tip. I would suspect something mechanical is wrong, like the differential is not applying the power correctly to the wheels or locking.

  • DarkOz on 10/02/2023 - 09:02

    3 possibilities:
    - Road surface
    - Driving
    - Tyres

    1. Did it happen at the same spot in the roundabout or it happened somewhere else as well? If same spot then that's your answer.

    2. Improve your driving habits. Keep it at a low constant speed and don't slow down to a near stop and accelerate again especially when your front wheels are turned in the wet. That's when your front wheel drive front wheels lose traction the most.

    3. If not 1. or 2. then change your tyres.

    4. If not 1. 2. or 3 buy a new car.

  • b0rnwithabeard on 10/02/2023 - 09:24
    +2

    your man is lying to you about your tyres. Go somewhere new, buy 4 brand new, quality tyres, get a proper wheel alignment and then stop ripping on the handbrake going through turns and you’ll be fine

  • Muzeeb on 10/02/2023 - 09:26
    +2

    Manual or automatic Rio?

    If it's a manual just drop it into 2nd and send it.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/02/2023 - 09:44
    +2

    Get a lesson from a driving instructor. Your "method" of navigating a common roundabout is bizarre and you obviously have no clue about the concept of traction.

  • BigBirdy on 10/02/2023 - 10:07
    +5

    What should you do?

    Avoid roundabouts. Avoid bends. Avoid turning. Actually, just stop driving. Take the bus or train, as your driving knowledge & skill is a danger to all of us

  • futureminime on 10/02/2023 - 10:11
    +1

    Is the other roundabout you lost traction on also up a little slope? Hopefully this is helpful, if i've botched it too badly I'm sure someone will reply and clean it up.

    You need friction to change your direction as well and if you don't have enough you slip. You've noted a big factor that decreases that is the wet conditions, and tried to minimise actions that would cause you to slip, so trying the right things.

    Something else to note is that when you're going uphill you get less normal force (how the weight of the car is pressed into the road) and less friction. You know when you're on a slope without breaks you'd roll down the slope but what you don't normally think about is about whats happening to that force when you're on a flat surface: its pushing the car straight down harder which means its harder for the wheel to slip.

    The lower normal force up hill will effect how fast your car can accelerate without the tyres slipping. Its not about how fast you're going necessarily but how quickly you change speed, which is why its easier to spin your wheels if you stop at the lights: you're increasing from 0 —> 20km much faster than you'd accelerate from 60 —> 80km/h for example.

    This affects you even when you're just accelerating straight but is compounded when you turn because there is additional to change the cars direction as well as the speed. (Dont try to go through the round about at 80 km/hr)

    From a physics point of view, acceleration is the change in velocity (which is both your speed, and the direction you're going that speed). If you cruise around a corner with your feet off the pedals, your car still has a change in velocity and from a physics point of view that's acceleration (or deceleration which is the same thing in reverse), its not just pressing the accelerator. This is the reason you can aquaplane where you can't even turn but you continue to travel at the same speed

    TLDR:

    You're probably had it at this roundabout (and not at other points in the drive) because of the combination of wet conditions, accelerating a light car up a bit of a slope. By maintaining speed as mentioned you're minimizing this acceleration and chance to lose traction.

    Another thing that might help is turning a little harder 'earlier'. It seems like from the description and picture you turn a little as you're parallel with the left lane that goes straight (almost like you're continuing straight in your lane as well and then you accelerate and turn a bit harder around the corner. If this is the case that would be the place you skid. If you turn a little harder earlier (practice when its dry, not much harder as it can feel a bit like you're going to drive into the roundabout until it becomes second nature) but so you track a constant curve of the roundabout a bit more it should work out better.

  • Eeples on 10/02/2023 - 10:33

    How can you slide to the right when you are in the right lane? Did you almost hit the roundabout itself?

    Is the entire car sliding to the right?

    Or, maybe, do you think the rear tyres slid to the left (as the front wheels were skidding)?…. which made you think you are sliding to the right?

    I suggest you buy a dashcam.

    • Chandler on 10/02/2023 - 11:12

      I suggest you buy a dashcam.

      Yeah, I think think one needs a MS Paint DCAU to get to the bottom of it.

  • Boioioioi on 10/02/2023 - 10:37
    +2

    Get some good tyres on the back maybe, Viking is junk

  • Campbellske on 10/02/2023 - 11:19

    Maybe consider taking some driving lessons. Or research on youtube or racing games would help with understanding the technicals of driving

  • Dorge on 10/02/2023 - 11:32

    Understeer is a common problem when driving in the wet, the maneuver below may help correct the loss of control.

    Accelerate to a high speed that you are comfortable with. Get ready for the maneuver once you are near the corner. Slightly move the wheel, just 5 to 10 degrees of the turn, to the side away from the spot where you want to take the turn. This slight movement is called ‘feign’ that sends the vehicle to a rocking motion, helping with the correct shifting of the weight once the slide starts.

    Just after performing the feign, spin the wheel to 1/4 to 1/3 turn toward the direction you want the car to roll. The direction of this motion will be opposite to the feign.

    When turning the wheel, break the rear wheel traction by pulling the handbrake. The car will begin the sliding and the rear end will start coming around right away. You have to release the rear brake to stop the slide. The slide’s length depends on how long you keep the handbrake on. So, you can easily experiment with the slide’s distance.

    The last part of FWD drifting is managing the so you can control the length of maneuver and direction of the slide. To do so, turn the wheel to the direction opposite to entering the slide. Apply the throttle to experiment with the slide and maneuver distance.

  • 2esc on 10/02/2023 - 12:02

    Personally dont go testing you abilities as mentioned above on a public road there are too many heroes out there already driving past the abilities they think they have. Go do a advanced driving course off the public road where you can safely learn.

    You mention turning right at roundabouts but what about just a normal right hand turn. The reason i ask is where i live have some roundabouts with a lot or off camber (a ridiculous amount ) this could be a factor. I personally think its your driving style try smoother turning and application of throttle. Having a mechanic test drive you vehicle may be the easiest option.

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