Possibly lowest since COVID
You're not allowed to compare a different and used product to new. There are rules. We are not animals.
I’m hearing lots of issues about longevity of Breville products. I currently have Bambino plus. And 18th month I started to have issues. Lelit seems to have real long life
Bambino is low end. Dual boiler and Oracle are their higher end models. I've been using the Breville Oracle since 2014.
Have an Express since 2018, no issues, even after it digested a rock 🤔
I got my Orcale in 2015 and no issues for me.
The issue is that people need to understand coffee machines do need maintenance due to west and tear. A lot of those issues are from seals being wear out over time. It’s bloody cheap to buy those parts and replace them.
@xenoic: yep 3 year old bes920, I've recently had to replace the temp probes due to steam boiler leakage.
d.i.y Grand Total $40
had to get the group head plastic spacer (under shower screen) replaced under warranty for free last year. I know people make aluminium ones that would last longer so that's what I'll use if I have to do it again.
@nismoau: By the way the group head plastic screen/spacer is exceedingly easy to replace, you literally buy it from breville AU for $8, use the provided allen key to remove the shower screen and literally plonk in the new group head plastic bit
It could not be easier if you're doing it yourself the next time
@TightAssDrake: That's a very unique issue which I haven't heard before. I personally use a third party tamper so I can't really comment on this issue.
If you want to dig through the forums, there's a huge cohort of BDB owners contributing to solving issues on the BDB.
https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual…
@TightAssDrake: Magnet will be fine, but the plastic holding it is probably broken (what happened to mine). You could probably repair by popping the top off and regluing - I decided it wasn't worth the effort.
@xenoic: Also water! Make sure your water is filtered, preferrably with a coffee machine specific water filter. Hard water corrodes parts over time.
Had my Barista Express for 12 years and I only just had to replace the seal on the group head. ~$20. That's it.
@johnnytran: Yes very easy, just a single screw, remove the old one (might have to pull on it with needle pliers or tweezers) then a bit of a clean with a small brush.
Yeah that's wrong. These last forever
You know Lelit are now owned by Breville?
5 years with my dual boiler, no issues so far.
Even if one of the common issues happen, these are so well supported with parts and internet forums and even mods, that it's no big deal.
FWIW mine is close to 10 years old, pulls at least 2x double shots a day minimum and the only thing has failed was the pump. Since covid it sees 3x double shots pulled each day (wfh).
Ended up replacing it myself, at the same time replaced all the boiler seals and it's still going. It does have a leaky steam wand due to the ball valve wearing out (common problem) but not bad enough to warrant a replacement just yet.
@Dose Pipe Sutututu: You can pull the plastic ball out of an old hand soap pump pack and replace the ball in the pump (same principle). That's for pretty much any machine. Basically all use the same pump.
@Dose Pipe Sutututu: +1 on this.
5.5 year old. I've replaced the o-rings, water pump and solenoid - total cost around $150. Plan on losing some (or even a lot of) skin to the pins or follow the advice on the hemostat.
@EthicsGradient: Actually I did replace my 3x way solenoid too!
Other than that, still going strong.
@Dose Pipe Sutututu: same here! it's an awesome machine! The steam wand just leaks into the tray anyways.
Bought a Barista Express a few years back. Newer model. Used several times a day and has been rock solid. Only clean it when it tells me it needs doing too. So good that my work bought one too and it get hammered all day by about 10 people.
I've had my BES920 since 2015… I had a Triac board go (around $50 for the part)and recently changed the o-rings ($10) and it all seems to be working pretty well. The steamer leaks a bit.. i changed the washer inside it, but there's another part I need to.. but still.. its 8 years old now. Just fired it up for a coffee right now. I really like this machine.
Oh and I modded it so I can turn it on and off with Home Assistant! Works like a charm.
@maddoglee: Can you expand on the home assistant mod? Is that just a switchbot or something fancier?
Lelit = Linux
BES920 = Windows
Nespresso = Mac
Humm not sure about the Nespresso…… Overhyped personally speaking.
Blend43 = Mac
You forgot about ChromeOS
Delonghi Automatic = ChromeOS
Nespresso is more like a calculator
I would put Nespresso= DOS (black and white, flavourless)
Machinetta = DOS
I'd say Mac - more specifically, iMac pro (RIP) would be more like La Marzocco
La Marzocco = Unix
If anyone who doesn’t know, regular Nespresso capsule only contains 5-6 grams of coffee grind.
Normally, the dosage from a cafe would be around 20g. Also the capsules are bad for the environment. Nespresso says they recycle them but through covid, I can see them just chucking them out. That made me to switch to ditch the Nespresso.
Even recycling capsules takes much more energy/resources than putting my coffee grinds in the compost.
Nice. I use Arch btw.
Nespresso = LeapFrog, My Own Laptop
Finally someone understands what I was on about.
I wouldn't go lelit without a PID but that's me. They take a long time to heat up, they're fiddly. I'd just go bes920 or Profitec if you want the Ferrari or Mercedes type thing.
I’m searching for details of the LELIT’s specs to see if it has PID
It will have a D at the end of the model for Digital. You'll see the pid on the front of the machine. Either way you'll grow tired of it very quickly if making more than 1 cup of coffee. For $300 I'd also be seeing what's wrong with it 🤣 unless it's years and years old.
@mrTT: I would buy the BES920, you'll get 4-5 years out of it. Save every last penny you save on coffee and in 4 years buy a Profitec.
Let's say a coffee costs you $1.50 (high premium bean price! $60 a kg coffee) at home. In a cafe it would be $5.00. put $3.50 in a jar. You'll have $4700 saved by then. You can get a good machine for that.
Might not be a Victoria Arduino eagle one or a LM linea mini, slayer etc etc but you can get good machines without the expensive names.
@neofelis: I want the profitec or ECM too but can the price difference really be justified vs this capable machine which has an amazing price value ratio? Can you taste the difference? At some the insides and components are mostly the same.
Rotary pump version maybe worth a look at.
I might even go full mental and buy the decent espresso machine where everything is computerized which is the other extreme but not sure if profitec is a justified step up vs the bdb.
@MrBillions: It's a big difference to the right user. Both machines can be equally as bad to the wrong user. Some may not appreciate it if they can't taste the difference as they just taste coffee.
When I drink coffee I taste far more than coffee because I have a coffee pallet. Some might even just enjoy a nespresso vertuo or aldi xpressi.
I see some people who have Linea Minis and don't even know how to use them, when they do I'm sure they would prefer coffee from their local cafe instead lol
A 600/700 pro would be far superior to a BDB. The BDB just doesn't work well under pressure and it's noticeable in the cup. You're grinding much courser to allow a lower powered machine perform. It can make great coffee though.
@neofelis: Ok so maybe the profitec is my next machine… Even though I'm looking at the profitec 400 which is HX and "sort of pid"… might give it a go as step up. Thanks for sharing your view/experience.
Ps. When you mean "under pressure" then is this when making multiple cups?
I make 2 milk drinks in a row….then a long break and then another 2 and then that's a wrap for the day
@MrBillions: Watch some youtube videos on the dual boiler… in fact just go and watch the James Hoffman youtube video where he compares 1500 pound machines and literally picks the Breville dual boiler and the profitec 500 as his two favourite machines…
And then you realise the dual boiler is like a quarter of the price here
@MrBillions: I've said it on the last OzB post for this machine as well.
This machine literally sells for 1600 USD in the US, and people still buy it because it outperforms everything near it for features.
People talk about reliability concerns that are largely unfounded, read the link below:
https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual…
This is the best deal at retail prices of any coffee machine in the entire world, and nothing else comes close.
@Khartoum: yes 1600 is retail but generally can be had for 1200 and even 1000 USD on a good day. Definitely this price is the best espresso to price ratio
@Khartoum: That's what's in question here. We are talking rotary pumps which are far superior at extracting coffee.
I think what James Hoffman said is very misleading by saying you wouldn't upgrade if you have one of these $1500 machines. That's like saying a Victoria Arduino, LM or Slayer isnt worth the money over a BDB. It simply isn't true.
I'm well versed in the YouTube clip you're trying to mention and the line you're trying to repeat and take from it. He does mention he uses $10,000 machines and even $5000 machines because that's the calibre he makes his coffee at.
@neofelis: What he actually said IIRC was that you wouldn't upgrade to something else in the same price bracket (i.e the other machines he reviewed in the video).. which is a fair point.
I understand your point though.
At the end of the day the BDB is excellent for the price and people can't go wrong buying it if they're getting into coffee.
@Khartoum: Agreed. The main question for me here is what is the next appropriate step up that's worth doing?
@MrBillions: Probably this BDB and an entry level electric grinder… you need to do some research to find what works for your use-case, but hand grinders like 1zpresso jxpro/j-max, electric grinders like eureka mignon manuale/silenzio/specialita, baratza sette 270 are tried and trusted options, but then you're looking at at least another 200$-600$ outlay… you need to do some research to see whats best for you.
@Khartoum: I already own a bdb and a niche and a df64p….just want to take it up a notch now… But don't know where from here…
@MrBillions: Oh… well that's a tough choice, because by having the BDB you've already accepted that it blows the competition out of the water… Therefore you have to spend 3 or 4x the price to get something that's clearly better… But then it becomes a very personal choice right? There are so many options.
You could slayer mod your BDB if you're into that? And play around with pre infusion of you haven't already.
You're hitting diminishing returns immediately now as you look for upgrades.
@Khartoum: You'd definitely consider a BDB as a stepping stone to great tasting coffee. It's feature packed and bang for buck! You won't have many regrets with the purchase. Down the line you'll find yourself wanting more when you fall in love with coffee.
@neofelis: Pair it with nice beans and a good grinder, and that's great tasting coffee full stop.
Stop speaking nonsense, and take your elitism elsewhere. You don't need a $5000 machine to get great coffee.
@Khartoum: Some might say you don't need an espresso machine at all to make great coffee and you only need a jar of Nescafe gold.
However your coffee vs my coffee will be vastly different. Good coffee and great coffee is also vastly different.
@Khartoum: Yes, but James Hoffman does have reservations about both the Dual Boiler and the Prof 500. But your point re the far lower price on the DB here is entirely valid. It's not the best espresso machine to be had in Aust, but it's the best value for sure.
@MrBillions: I'd honestly swap out the Profitec for the Rancilio Silvia or a Gaggia. Whether the base model (E or M; both single boiler), or one of the Pro's (dual boilers). And get a decent grinder at the same time (like the Eureka Mignon single shot, or Niche Zero ordered from them directly as it's cheaper). All up about $2k at the minimum, and those things are built to last and would be more than what's needed for home use. Rancilio and Gaggia are both excellent starting machines.
@MrBillions: It is a statement piece to be sure when you buy a higher end Italian/German espresso machine. But they are built to last 20+ years if looked after and they look fantastic!
The BES920 will usually last 4-7 years or so and most people would be looking for a replacement after that. I pulled nearly 9k shots in over 6 years on my BES920 and it was still going strong. But then I looked after mine, replaced various parts, did regular maintenance when due and feed the machine decent water which can be critical depending on your local water hardness levels. Being an appliance grade machine they can get used and abused by the uninitiated. I'd say with the latest batches being improved for even better reliability, run don't walk to buy one for $850. Just remember to offset $600-$1k for a decent grinder to make the most out of the machine.
I believe TEM has a pid. LEM does not. Just remember this Lelit is only a single boiler though. Not a big deal for most people but I agree it is hard to compare a new double boiler with a used single boiler.
I drink long black. So it is Ok.
Is the TEM with a screen ? And LEM is just switches ?
If you see a photo and it has a screen then it has a PID. I have a Lelit Elizabeth and can't fault it. I agree with neofelis there is a chance something is wrong if they are selling it so cheap.
@mrTT: Bugger I guess neofelis is right that it needs D at the end of the model. Go the BDB I reckon.
I’ve got the BES920 at home, bought the LELIT for my in-laws, huge mistake. It’s so hard to make a good coffee, by the time the steamer heats up all the crema on the coffee is gone. Try do the milk first and it turns into foam by time you’ve pulled your shot. Too slow… big no from me
Breville owns Lelit. Lelit products are still made in Italy
I had a BES920 for about 7 years. It is a great machine.
I swapped it for a LELIT Elizabeth - had it for about 6 months
The only problem with the BES920 is the hoses that pass water to steam wand have little rubber o-rings that perish after a few years and steam leaks inside the machine (which can cause other issues). It is easy to fix yourself if you can use a screwdriver and pliers.
Comparing features, the BES920 beats Elizabeth hands down.
The software is better with more functionality
It has timer as well as volumetric measuring when pulling shots
Filling it is easier - you don't have to pull water container out.
Fast warmup.
Automatic turnoff/turnon
The LELIT (Elizbeth) has a few good features.
It has smaller footprint.
It is quieter.
Steam is very powerful (BES920 is no slouch tho)
Contruction is all stainless steel.
It has a manual on off switch - that I don't like because I keep forgetting to turn it off. Some people do like it.
For an expensive machine the steam knob is cheapo plastic.
The steam control uses screw seal (like a water tap.) The BES uses a ball valve
I don't like the Oracles because of the built in grinder. I think you are better off getting a separate GOOD quality grinder.
Sweet jebus. I'm looking for the BES920 as well! Good timing.
Definitely a good espresso machine. I've had my second hand one for 6+ months and its excellent. Although if you happen to be in Brisbane looking for one I got mine off a guy on facebook who reconditions them and had about 12 in his garage when I got mine. All for around 350-450 depending on age/condition, and he threw in a bottomless portafilter as well.
Most likely available in every major city, you just have to find the guy. There's one near me.
Can you share details please for Melbourne?
+1 as a first machine wouldn't mind trying second hand first
?
Can you pm me their details? Im located in Brisbane!
"User Wazkick3n does not accept new conversations."
Happy to PM you details once you can accept them
Updated cheers!
Please pass on this guys details, cheers! My well loved unit is past its prime and am looking for someone to fix it up
PM'd
Ye would also love to get this guys details. I'm in Brisbane too
PM'd
Hi can you please PM me their details
PM'd
just for ppl who thought like me - this seems to be hard baseline. Got JB deal quote of 959.00 and tried my 15% off and it still came out to 849.15. at 959, this should be 815.15.
how did u get 15% off
JB perks - after dark sale.
require a code
![[Perks] Breville BES920 The Dual Boiler Espresso Machine $849.15 + Delivery ($0 C&C) @ JB Hi-Fi](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/02/761102.jpg?h=791c6e4c)
Really good price. But I just came across a second hand LELIT PL41TEM for $300. Which one should I go for. I know BES920 has everything; programmable, PID etc. not sure how it compares to LELIT