Why Would One Buy Conventional Car in Current Market Conditions??

LOzzyBoy1 on 30/03/2023 - 11:21

What i don't get is this..I know this is one more car purchasing thread..

But allow me to explain.

A) Inflation is still red hot, cost of living is through the roof. Affordabilitly of anything shinly is pretty low or none (unless you're born millinaire..)
B) There are almost no discounts on new cars from dealers due to low stock bla bla bla
C) EV market will be very big in couple of years time I believe. I know this is open for discussion and EV (Tesla etc.) are going to be game changer (at least I believe that..)

Given above reasons, why would someone think of buying brand new conventional fuel (diesel, petrol ) car?

I drive Sportage Kia and that too Diesel which I bough pre-covid and have been contemplating getting something bigger and at least hybrid electric vehicle. But due to multiple reasons I have been unable to get anything concrete done in this matter. I am pretty conservative and don't want to add car loan as getting car loan for new car doesn't sit well with me financially and that's main reason withholding me back for any car type. Yes if you have business with ABN etc. than that's different story. I try not to use my diesel car unless i really need to due to prohibitive diesel costs these days.

I really want nice 7 seater (Kluger Hybrid..??) but been unable to get anywhere due to multiple reasons stated above. Don't want to spend $70k on brand new car and that too through car loan. $50k may be yes, $70k..NO..

Or am I missing something altogether??

Automotive

Comments

        • seannami on 31/03/2023 - 08:15
          +1

          You seem to be assuming that the car would be going to scrap and not a new owner. Cars don't end their lives in the bin in general, they go to the second hand market or even places like pick a part. And the carbon break even point on most EVs is much much earlier than most people would pass a car on as first owner, let alone the second or third owner (or like the old Leafs, ending up as GoGet).

    • dealsucker on 02/04/2023 - 09:53

      Do you mean ICE cars would have a large market in the next 20-30 years? Let me make a prediction - by 2030 atleast 60% of the brand new car market would be electric in the markets that matter - Europe, USA, China etc.

      • Brian McGee on 02/04/2023 - 13:04

        So 40% of the global market will still want some sort of fuel powered vehicle? That’s still a good market to be selling to.

  • Ryanek on 30/03/2023 - 12:11
    +4

    Don't want to spend $70k

    Isn't this the answer to your question?

    • OzzyBoy1 on 30/03/2023 - 12:18
      -3

      No it isn't. I am trying to understand if there is something missing that I should know that i don't know yet. Read whole thread. Not just initial comment

      • jv on 30/03/2023 - 13:35
        +3

        Read whole thread. Not just initial comment

        Summarise your posts in the initial comment…

        Problem solved…

  • kerfuffle on 30/03/2023 - 12:14

    Why Would One Buy Conventional Car in Current Market Conditions??

    'Cause I needed a car after someone T-Boned my car and wrote it off. I bought a hybrid though.

    • smartazz104 on 30/03/2023 - 15:03
      +1

      Hope you're ok mate.

      • kerfuffle on 30/03/2023 - 21:57

        Yep; it happened 11 months ago and recovered from my sore back and neck in a few days thanks to the power of Nurofen. Still miss that car

  • Drpepper666 on 30/03/2023 - 12:26
    -4

    EV is scam

  • Drakesy on 30/03/2023 - 12:28
    +1

    Secondhand yes, eyeing off a Mazda CX-9 as we speak - decent fuel economy (8-9L/100k), petrol engine, 7 seats, power to boot and good looks and fitout.
    brand new, nah.

    Holding out till SUV EV's come into the $30k's

    • Mechz on 30/03/2023 - 12:47
      +2

      Yeah you'll probably not ever get that kind of economy.

      • Drakesy on 30/03/2023 - 12:52

        I beg to differ
        8L on highway
        9L combined
        10-11L City.

    • jv on 30/03/2023 - 13:33

      Holding out till SUV EV's come into the $30k's

      I'll get the ones that include advertising for $20K

    • Poor Ass on 30/03/2023 - 18:23
      +1

      mate the whole CX-5 and above are fuel guzzlers I know because I had them all before

      • Drakesy on 30/03/2023 - 18:51

        CX-5 doesn't have a cx-9 engine.
        All the reports say that it's largely in line with the tested consumption on the combined cycle.

        • plmko on 30/03/2023 - 19:11

          The CX-5 is available with the 2.5L turbo which is the same engine as the CX-9. But why care about fuel economy when it feels good to drive it.

          • Drakesy on 30/03/2023 - 19:22

            @plmko: Sorry you're right it was introduced in 2021.
            I was thinking pre-2021 where it topped out at a 2.0L

          • Poor Ass on 30/03/2023 - 19:31

            @plmko: this is also correct

        • ColtNoir on 31/03/2023 - 13:29

          Anecdotal evidence here
          2019 Cx-5 2L FWD
          Actual 8.99L/100km based on NL reporting.
          The fuel consumption has gone up since moving to the central coast NSW due to all the hills and the smaller engine revving like crazy.
          Was better fuel consumption when I lived in Sydney.

    • ram4ram on 30/03/2023 - 23:56

      petrol engine

      Is this meant to be a 'good' thing? (Serious question) I thought diesels are more fuel efficient and have more torque

      • Drakesy on 31/03/2023 - 08:48

        Yeah for around town, which lets be honest this is going to be what its used for, you'll want a petrol as it wont clog up the egr's and dpf due to short runs.

        Diesels tend to grenade themselves quite easily in city driving

        • ram4ram on 31/03/2023 - 21:18

          Oh i see… so is that why you need to drive diesels hard on the highway every now and again? Give it the old Spanish Tuneup

  • techno2000 on 30/03/2023 - 12:45

    You are talking about $50k to $70k cars which is nothing.
    People are still buying $1 million plus houses at a interest rate of 6% !!

    • Drakesy on 30/03/2023 - 12:53
      +1

      Yeah, the interest rate rises i have a feeling still have a way to go. People are still spending money like it's going out of style.

    • jv on 30/03/2023 - 13:34
      +3

      People are still buying $1 million plus houses at a interest rate of 6% !!

      House prices typically go up, car prices typically don't.

      • bomberswarm2 on 31/03/2023 - 07:24
        +4

        No, land prices go up, house prices go down. Your house is less valuable after 10 years, your land doubles in value.

        • jv on 31/03/2023 - 09:18
          +1

          house prices go down.

          not over the last few years.

          building costs have skyrocketed.

      • bomberswarm2 on 31/03/2023 - 08:48

        No, land prices go up, house prices go down. Your house is less valuable after 10 years, your land doubles in value.

        • jv on 31/03/2023 - 09:19
          +2

          house prices go down.

          not over the last few years.

          building costs have skyrocketed.

        • nephilim on 31/03/2023 - 19:06

          biggest movers in my market are luxury homes due to crazy price increases
          You use to be able to build a massive 2 story with 4 rooms and 2 lounges for 350k 5 years ago. That will now get you a 4 bedroom 1 story to fit on a 10m wide block.

  • zathras on 30/03/2023 - 12:57

    1) One may not have easy access to charging infrastructure (eg maybe live in an apartment) and/or One may prefer an ICE vehicle.
    2) As you said, inflation is red hot, which means a car selling for $50,000 today may sell for $54,000 next year.
    3) One may be driving an old car that is uneconomical to repair, and/or may want a new vehicle.

    • dealsucker on 02/04/2023 - 09:56

      All you need is a standard power plug to maintain the charge on your car even if you drive 100 kms daily. Its a misnomer to think that you need to charge your electric car to full each day. You dont!

  • jv on 30/03/2023 - 13:28
    +3

    Why Would One Buy Conventional Car in Current Market Conditions?

    To cross the road ?

  • apple2016 on 30/03/2023 - 13:35
    +1

    Given above reasons, why would someone think of buying brand new conventional fuel (diesel, petrol ) car?

    EV is twice the price of brand new conventional fuel and Australia has no real strategy for EV

    • smartazz104 on 30/03/2023 - 15:04
      +1

      Australia has no real strategy

      FTFY.

  • Mistredo on 30/03/2023 - 13:39
    +2

    am I missing something altogether?

    yes

    • Minimum chips on 30/03/2023 - 19:03

      We're supposed to say it all together:

      "Am I missing something"

  • KaTst3R on 30/03/2023 - 13:50
    +3

    More infrastructure is needed before considering EV.

  • Ocker on 30/03/2023 - 13:54
    +6

    "Given above reasons, why would someone think of buying brand new conventional fuel (diesel, petrol ) car"

    Quite simply because it is my choice and I do not need to explain my reasoning to you (or anybody for that matter)

    • smartazz104 on 30/03/2023 - 15:04
      +4

      But you don't understand, I am here to argue.

    • ripesashimi on 30/03/2023 - 15:27
      +1

      I am here to ensure that you know what is best for you. I may not be you, but I may know whats best for you better than you do. Who am I, you ask? Haha good question.

      • plmko on 30/03/2023 - 18:36

        Mate if a Sashimi started talking to you about what car to buy, it's probably time to log off Ozb and see a doctor.

  • 87percent on 30/03/2023 - 13:59
    +2

    If I was buying a new car now, minimum would be a hybrid. I personally wouldn’t get EV yet, as i think it’s still about 18m away with the infrastructure

  • JIMB0 on 30/03/2023 - 15:03
    +2

    I'm not buying an ev until they have virtical take off mode to get out of tricky parking situations.

    • smartazz104 on 30/03/2023 - 15:05
      +1

      That's what we need, someone to open the throttle to the full position thinking it's the brake and enter low-earth orbit…

  • Red01 on 30/03/2023 - 15:24

    I would have thought you can get a lot of diesel for your current car for the cost of a Kluger hybrid? Given the a roughly the same size inside

  • ronafios on 30/03/2023 - 15:34
    +1

    In terms of devaluation, my take is that ICE cars will devalue faster as pricing parity with EV's is reached - because EV's offer much lower running costs and often a much more pleasant ownership experience (quieter, charge at home from solar etc). There will also be incentives to purchase EV's such as tax breaks.

    However, current EV's will also devaule quickly as technology moves fast, more players enter the market, and pricing gets closer to parity with ICE (some expect parity by 2026). EV's are expensive today compared to what they will be in a couple of years. That will put downward pressure on resale.

    So, either way, buying a new car today (EV or ICE) is likely to result in faster than normal devaluation for a few years. Supply constraints are propping things up temporarily, but I expect within a year or two things will be much clearer.

    My take is that plug-in hybrids will provide the best compromise at the moment - likely to have good utility in the Australian market for the life of the vehicle, crossing both. That said, I bit the bullet and bought a pure EV and don't regret it at all.

    • dealsucker on 02/04/2023 - 09:58
      +1

      Plug in hybrids are a stupid idea because they are not good ev's (range) and they arent good ICE vehicles (poor efficiency once the battery is exhausted). And if the idea is that most of us drive below the pure EV range that plugin hybrids deliver, why not get an EV in first place?

  • freedomofspeech on 30/03/2023 - 15:52
    +1

    I would not buy any EV or Hybrid at this point.

    • JuryWheel on 30/03/2023 - 16:27

      Youd by an ICE over a Hybrid? How come?

      • freedomofspeech on 31/03/2023 - 16:50
        -2

        No appealing reason. I like independence

  • Bargainitis on 30/03/2023 - 16:18
    +8

    whenever I complain about how expensive something is, my wife always rebuts with "sounds like an income problem"

    bless her soul

  • tessel on 30/03/2023 - 17:06
    +2

    Are you missing something? Yes, the second hand car market.

  • herecomestheoost on 30/03/2023 - 17:10

    :D

  • Herbse on 30/03/2023 - 18:16
    +4

    Unfortunately, you're on the wrong section of the internet for people to agree with you on this. I've found OB to be a bit on the opposition side of EV's due to their price difference company to their ICE counterparts.

    On average the price difference is currently around $20k more expensive for a similar car in EV. And with the price of petrol at the moment, the savings difference doesn't add up to a profitable ROI within the 10 years that the EV batteries are generally accepted to last. So on Ozbargain, this is not a deal.
    Similar situation with battery storage for home electricity, because it doesn't end up in a net positive for the investment, most people turn their noses up at the idea. Which is fine.

    But there are people who tend to look beyond the financial benefits and have their own reasons for wanting home batteries and/or an EV vehicle. Which is also fine imo.

    I bought a brand new car 2 years ago and it has so much tech in it with regards to infotainment, fuel efficiency and advance driving assistance to the point where I barely needed to drive it. But even with all that tech, whenever I hear it turn on and smell the gas fumes. All I can think about is how archaic the car is that it needs to still run on fire and explosions. So this made me decide to sell the car (due to second hand market demand I was able to make a profit), buy a cheap runaround and will keep saving until a decent EV that I like within a good budget comes out.
    Every year there's new models with the major ones coming out with some nice models this year. I think I will wait for the second generation lineup of a major brand like Subaru or Hyundai.

    If you have your own reasons for wanting an EV then go for it. It will end up being the future eventually, and people are correct that ICE cars will still be around for a while. So take your pick.

    • dealsucker on 02/04/2023 - 10:03

      While cheapest EV's are still relatively expensive, they arent much more so and given you dont have fill in petrol, get it serviced every year, dont depreciate as much and can literally be driven for free if you have solar - they make an excellent financial case even now.

      When it comes to performance electric cars such as a Model Y Performance which retails for 106k, there isnt even a competition even if there was just a singular criteria - Performance. Name one ICE SUV which I can buy for $106k which can do 0-100 kph in 3.7 seconds? If you consider running costs, servicing costs, depreciation, reliability, technology - you have to be lacking a front cortex to buy an ICE performance car today.

  • brad1-8tsi on 30/03/2023 - 18:20

    Affordabilitly of anything shinly is pretty low or none (unless you're born millinaire..)

    You talk about wanting a $70k Kluger but think you need to be a millionaire to afford a car? All you need is cashflow

  • ChupaCabra on 30/03/2023 - 18:48
    +1

    As others said it's cheaper to buy ICE so I assume most are buying because they can comfortably afford it and are environmentally conscious.

    So given that do EV buyers consider that supposedly cobalt mining is very unethical but necessary to produce EV cars. I'd love to hear the counter argument if someone feels like explaining.

    Also that said most of us are probably writing this on a phone made with child/slave labour or wearing clothes from brands involved in child/slave labour. Just pointing that out as we should probably look at fixing that too.

  • plmko on 30/03/2023 - 19:06

    Very foolish to blow cash in this climate. You'll regret it in 2 years when big investment opportunities can be scooped up cheap. So it's best to keep what you have or just get a minimal cost car ~$30k.

    If you buy a limited edition car with low depreciation like a desirable sports car that's a different story. But those family 7 seater type cars are dime-a-dozen and it's the same as any EV today, there can only be more and they can only get better so huge depreciation is coming for anything you choose in those categories.

  • oO0Dam0Oo on 30/03/2023 - 19:17

    @OzzyBoy1 DM me I may have a deal for you.

  • Top G on 30/03/2023 - 19:24

    Hydrogen fuel cell is for real chads

  • diss on 30/03/2023 - 19:30
    +1

    Because I like to have fun driving and enjoy an ICE. I don’t want to spend the money you have to spend on an electric performance car for starters, it’d have to be in Taycan territory to be tempting and for that you can buy some very nice ICE cars.

  • boomramada on 30/03/2023 - 19:44
    -1

    When it comes to EVs, sadly Tesla is the best out of all yet you paying an almost premium price for the car which isn't even a luxury. Personally, I found Tesla is kind of boring to drive and boring to look at. I do lots of interstate driving and am not the type of person who plans ahead on where to stop. HenceI bought an ICE car, maybe in the future, I would get an EV for probably 5+ years as a second car. It was a hard decision, after a test drive of a lot of ICE, Hybrid cars, and no regrets.

    • OzzyBoy1 on 31/03/2023 - 09:30
      -2

      Yes agree. Tesla cars looks bland. Yes technology wise they're probably great from inside. But they look dull and uninspiring. Also what about registration and insurance costs for Tesla? Are they expensive when it comes to insurance and rego? What about repair network and service if someone hits your Tesla? Lol..

  • DingoBilly on 30/03/2023 - 21:08

    I actually completely agree - buying any petrol/diesel car at the moment is a dumb move.

    You're paying over-inflated prices for an out-dated technology that will be redundant in a few years.

    Like buying an old brick phone when smartphones were coming on to the market.

    • mlburnian on 30/03/2023 - 21:40
      +1

      Why would they be redundant?

      https://www.ladbible.com/news/tesla-owners-uk-christmas-queu…

      Ev charging infrastructure will take even longer in oz than other developed countries. Plus electricity price is going to sky rocket with the govt in charge.

      • DingoBilly on 31/03/2023 - 10:00

        Because they're literally being banned from purchase in Australia and will slowly start going away entirely.

        You say electricity will sky-rocket, yet completely bypass the fact that fuel is only going to get worse as well (and has been much worse than electricity increases). So that's a moot point.

        Again - if you want to buy older tech that is going to be redundant then go for it but its just a backwards move IMO.

        • mlburnian on 31/03/2023 - 19:49

          Fuel is cheap in Australia

      • us3rnam3tak3n on 01/04/2023 - 00:00

        Personally charging vs fuel would make a lot of sense for my use case. During the day my car sits in the driveway while my solar sends about 25kWh to the grid. The main obstacle is still the initial outlay but I expect in the next 5 years that total cost of ownership will overwhelmingly favour EV.

    • SBOB on 31/03/2023 - 07:22
      +1

      buying any petrol/diesel car at the moment is a dumb move.

      So there's reasonably priced ev alternatives for all market segments?

      Buying one for a commuter run around for city work life, sure.

      Plenty of vehicle segments that don't have suitable or affordable options.

      • DingoBilly on 31/03/2023 - 09:57

        I don't think there are suitable alternatives no at all segments, but once you hit 50k or so there definitely is.

        That's why I'm just waiting without a car. I know it's a luxury I have to not need one, but if you have the option it's obviously preferable to wait for EVs than to buy an ICE car. But as usual it's the people without money who get penalised and have to pay for redundant technology.

        • SBOB on 31/03/2023 - 10:44

          but once you hit 50k or so there definitely is

          EV suitable options for
          - 4WD or offroad? (eg Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger/Everest)
          - Large SUV? (eg Toyota Kluger)
          - Family Wagon? (eg Kia Carnival)

          the $50k isnt the 'limit' on this being EV suitable replacable.

  • cloudy on 30/03/2023 - 22:18
    +2

    Well, im in the market for a new car, and i'm highly inclined to get an EV. I don't want to be a luddite.
    But my problems are as follows:
    - Cost, EVs costs around 20ish k more. The best comparison is between 2 cars that is identical in every way except one is ICE and one is EV. MG Excite EV and ICE. The ICE is 24k and the EV is 48k roughly. That is the price premium for an EV.

    • Factoring in low running costs due to fuel type, travelling around 10k kms pa I'd save the 24k in about 15 years. Which is a long long time…( I have solar panels as well…)

    • Factoring opportunty cost of money given 5% interest rates, I'd have to add a few more years to that.

    • Minus servicing cost is fair, but I also need to add on insurance premium due to the higher value EV. They almost balance each other out.

    So the question really is, is it worth it balanced with my desire to have a lower carbon footprint.

    It's a tough one…I haven't decided.

  • megadeth on 31/03/2023 - 06:46

    From only economic perspective (and not environmental) I seem to think that conventional fuel (diesel/petrol) will probably be more expensive in a few years time, as producers will try to maintain their margins whilst economies of scale will diminish and subsequently ICE will depriciate faster due to weaker demand. Even now EV has lower operating cost overall. I'd thus go with the flow and buy an EV whilst the incentives are their for the early adopters.

  • netjock on 31/03/2023 - 06:48
    +1

    People and group push their own agendas.

    Best for you to work it out on a spreadsheet. Everyone is different. I had a good laugh at that Tesla club of WA spreadsheet that assumed you fully financed a $40k car and a model 3. With interest rates through the roof and drop in new Tesla sale values if you bought at the wrong time you are well under water with the Tesla.

  • Murkymerv on 31/03/2023 - 07:13

    If your not aware , Europe is pushing back on their target dates to ban fuel powered (petrol & diesel) cars . That should tell you how well it's working out , think of the whole picture !

  • Yoo05 on 31/03/2023 - 07:29
    +3

    I still need to get a hold of a v8 before they disappear.

  • saltypete on 31/03/2023 - 08:42
    +4

    If you have a means to charge an EV at home or work I am mystified why anyone would be considering an ICE vehicle, and as ICE development stops I’ll watch with interest how makers manage to sell things with old tech.
    But charging infrastructure is likely to be ‘interesting’ for some time and this could be a reason to stick with ICE for a while.
    So I’ll buy an EV as my town car as soon as practicable, but keep my petrol guzzling 4wd for a few years yet.

  • [Deactivated] on 31/03/2023 - 08:49
    +2

    Will every household have the capacity to obtain and charge multiple EV’s over the next 10-15 years?

    Think about it, it’s night time and Dad, Mum, and any young adult children are all hooked up to one house powered by a renewable energy grid that produces power during the day. This is true for the whole block and the whole suburb.

    You think there will be no demand for a vehicle that fills up within 5 minutes and can drive all day long?

    People have jobs and a life to get to in a country with falling living standards. You want to improve the environment? Lower the cost of living and improve peoples living standards not reduce them. This is especially true for poor nations who are the primary polluters.

    Let’s focus on getting reliable and plentiful energy, so we have a productive future then we can reap the rewards of that cheap, plentiful energy and power our transport off of it. If we fail to do this, we will all be peasants paying a fortune for the privilege of being green and travelling out of our locality.

    • saltypete on 31/03/2023 - 09:03

      Fair point. Starting to see investment in energy now that our national policy settings have some basis in logic but it’s possibly going to be a few lumpy years.
      Who gets their car charged first? Good sitcom plot right there…

    • greatlamp on 01/04/2023 - 09:36

      Add all the people who live in apartments. I predict apartments will be retrofitted with EV chargers by 3rd party installers in apartment carparks.

      The way this works currently is that the user has to pay exorbitant per Kw fees to use them and the company that installed them maintains them exclusively - for an ongoing service fee. Essentially the body corporate pays several thousand dollars to install equipment that is effectively leased, and users also pay for the electricity that is already supplied by the building.

      In this environment ICE cars will never disappear, EVs will not be economical for apartment living

  • OzzyBoy1 on 31/03/2023 - 09:34
    +2

    So sounds like pre-owned ICE car might be a sweet spot. No need to buy brand new ICE cars and burn your money. And cost of brand new/pre-owned hybrid SUV is prohibitive as well.So wait for second hand car market to cool down futher and get some decent ICE for next 4 to 5 years. And than see how things go in automotive market. This sounds like fair propositiion..

    • us3rnam3tak3n on 01/04/2023 - 01:53

      Yeah, unless you can capitalise on tax incentives for a new EV it's hard to justify the premium compared to a similar spec ICE right now in the new car market. Something cheapish and cheerful until the direction of things becomes more settled seems wise to me.

  • cycleri3 on 31/03/2023 - 09:48

    If you are in Victoria, get a traditonal hybrid. Plugin has 2c/km tax, BEV has 2.5c/km tax.

    • skillet on 01/04/2023 - 08:28

      That's only currently. When there are more pure BEV on the road they may increase km tax.

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