Bitcoin over $30k USD again, proving naysayers wrong once again

Bitcoin has penetrated the $30k USD and appears to be holding, looking at the charts, it looks like the beginning of another bull market which can take its price to $100k, $200k and beyond. Goes without saying, but still this is my own opinion only, not financial advice. I'm just opining on the potential future price of BTC, it may or may not eventuate, I don't have control over the price of BTC. Do not rely on my posts and comments, its for educational/entertainment/lively debating purposes only.

I look at other investment classes, shares, bonds, property, its all doom and gloom. This is why I've decided against buying an investment property, I just do get where the attraction is from. I'm investment vehicle agnostic, I just want the best vehicle to make the most returns. Of course risk is very hard set, and some investment vehicles are much much more susceptible to regulation and other shocks. Take the property market for example, there is a range of regulation changes, which governments can implement which will cause it to break, look at China as a very good example, a rule change reining in how much debt developers can take on, rippled through the market and broke it.

Cryptocurrencies are not immune, however they are much much more resilient to these regulation changes. Of course, it will be affected by it if governments attempt to ban it or otherwise restrict it.

I find it very funny reading through https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/, which shows a collection of what naysayers have said throughout the years and Bitcoin has proven them all wrong. Take a look at this from Dan Pena, he said this when Bitcoin dropped from $6k to $3k and he was doing a little victory rant, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX21rnDV-oo. Now Bitcoin has proven him wrong, and he has egg all over his face. Its so funny, everything he said about Bitcoin turned out to be wrong.

Personally, I thought Bitcoin was a scam from 2009 to 2013. I knew about its existence shortly after it was created and I read and understood the whitepaper, but didn't believe it would work. This changed in 2013, happy to be proven wrong and Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have allowed me to accumulate a nice small fortune. I've done calculations on the alternatives, if I didn't buy Bitcoin and other cryptos from 2013, eg purchased an investment property, purchased apple shares etc, and none could have allowed me to amass my net wealth today. So with 20/20 hindsight, I'm glad I made the right decision back in 2013.

Has your perception about cryptocurrency changed over the years?

Update - adding in some common points people put in the comments.

Crypto is a zero sum game. For you to make money, someone needs to lose money.

This is not true, shares and property are not zero sum games, hence crypto which is another asset just like shares and property is not a zero sum game.
Here's a recent trade I did. I purchased 20.82 BTC late 2022 at $16688 USD per BTC, I sold it over the last few days at an average price of around $30100 USD per BTC because I want to purchase a property to live in soon.

In this scenario, who lost money?
1. The people who sold it to me late 2022
2. me or
3. the people who bought it off me a few days ago. BTC is $30184 USD at the time of writing.

Bitcoin is based on "thin air", its not backed by anything.

Bitcoin was created in the aftermath of the GFC, which is either forgotten or just not experienced by people. Bitcoin's value is based on its decentralised, censorship resistant and permissionless network, which is a god send for people in oppressive regimes with unstable fiat currencies. It is also based on trust, through its open sourced code.

Much of our economy is based on trust without the transparency. We trust that our RBA gives us accurate data on how much money it conjures up from "thin air". Unlike Bitcoin, we can't easily verify it, how do we know they haven't printed a trillion AUD?

Comments

        • It's so volatile I'd put in levels of the battle 20k apart . BYC hitting 10k or 50k deeming the longer term winner/loser hehe . Day to day 1k's mean very little.

        • Bitcoin well over $30k USD again. Time to update the title again?

          • @techlead: Yeah $370 over gives you a huge safety barrier :)

            • @lostgoat: It will most likely fall below $30k, I was just trolling. I know Bitcoin is volatile, hence I'm never doing leveraged trading again. Read my AMA on my past experience. Spoiler alert, it wasn't very good.

              I haven't bought any since mid March at around $20k USD. I'm due to buy some, surplus from my salary, but I will hold off for a bigger pull back.

              I periodically buy the dip, hodl, sell when I need to buy things like house, car etc, other than that, its safely in my Trezor/Ledger, no government or entity can ever confiscate that from me.

              • @techlead: I can imagine every time it goes above and below the magic mark there is a comment. Your post would increase by 100's hehe .

                • @lostgoat: haha, possibly, until Bitcoin blasts into another price range.

                • @lostgoat: Take this song for example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PXU0thDHCU

                  When it was created, Bitcoin was $6k, the bearish scenario was $1k and bullish was $40k. We all know what happened. I got liquidated when it went down to $3k T_T, but then Bitcoin went to $69k. It has never touched the $1k mark since the creation of that song. So I would say the naysayers back then have been proven wrong, so far.

                  • @techlead: With where the BTC price is currently . As long as you were longer term you are right .
                    Silver and the like can say no value but we can all agree it can be cashed fast and buy as you please .
                    So amazingly it always has a value .

                    • @lostgoat: Go on coinmarketcap, that's value, if it can be sold for AUD, it has value, its that simple.

                      I'm holding crypto in my super, being young, doesn't make sense to hold any other asset.

    • Do you have some sub $30k Bitcoin I can have?

  • Lots of longs being liquidated in the past hour.

    • That's why it is quite stupid to use leverage for such a volatile asset. I learnt my lesson when I lost 1BTC when BTC dropped from $6k to $3k USD after going sideways for a while.

      Only spot for me, I have no liquidation level.

    • Hmm, depends on what this person is saying.

      For the past 48hrs I've been unwinding a massive wallet draining operation 😳😭

      I don't know how big it is but since Dec 2022 it's drained 5000+ ETH and ??? in tokens / NFTs / coins across 11+ chains.

      Its rekt my friends & OGs who are reasonably secure.

      No one knows how.

      For the past 48hrs I've been unwinding a massive wallet draining operation

      That is not worrying, that's just some whale selling.

      Its rekt my friends & OGs who are reasonably secure

      What does he/she mean by that. Their coins got hacked? These appear to be OG addresses created 2014 to 2022. I wouldn't call addresses from 2019-2022 "OG". Definitely 2014 though.

      We can only speculate at the moment, let's see when the dust settles. I have some buy orders ready at the $20k USD level in case it wicks down quickly to that level.

    • -1

      I have read through and analysed the thread, it appears that it is due to poor seed phrase management. Some hackers have been able to exploit some big whale wallets because they were able to obtain their seed phrase.

      Without going into too much detail into my own set up as I have millions of USD in crypto, I have 4 hardware wallets, 2 x Trezor, 2 x Ledger and within those I further split the wallets into separate seed phrases for cold and hot wallet storage. I never put all my eggs/coins in the same basket/hardware wallet seed phrase. I restrict each wallet to $300k USD max. All my seed phrases are stored physically, never digitally. Its a pain, but beats having my crypto stolen.

  • +1

    Hey OP I'm genuinely wondering why you're still loosing your time posting here, as you seems to be confronted to a majority of anti-cryptoers.

    Isn't it discouraging? Why don't you post on BTC-Maxi forums instead?

    • I enjoy conversing with skeptics or people who disagree with me, because they can potentially add value. A circle jerk, like in BTC-maxi forums will not add value.

      I thought Bitcoin was a scam from 2009-2013, I only changed my mind by talking to people who disagreed with me, so Bitcoin advocates who were able to open my eyes and just encourage me to do some more research and dig a little deeper and critically analyze instead of just taking the media's conclusion, which at the time was, its a ponzi scheme, its used by criminals, its based on thin air, its not tangible etc etc (sound familiar).

      Talking to people who disagree with me changed my life, if I open someone's eyes and encourage just one person to dig a bit deeper, research abit more, and critically think to come to their own conclusion about crypto, then I would be very happy.

      Also, the only way to test my views and potentially see flaws in my logic is to talk to someone who disagree with me. If I stay in the echo chamber of people who agree with me, I will never be able to spot any flaws in my thinking/logic.

    • Hahaha, good thing I've sold enough already to purchase a property.

      I'm actually quite happy with the pull back, the last time I bought crypto was back in mid-March when I was able to buy Bitcoin for around $20k USD. I've not bought any crypto since and I've got some dry powder from my salary I would like to buy crypto with, so I'm very very happy with this pull back. Its buying time soon I reckon.

      • You have millions from crypto and you work a day to day job as well? You wrote that in 3 months you made about $400,000 AUD, yet you still decide you like going to work 9-5?

        Why would you bother given the magnitudes of money more you'd make if you just went 100% into crypto? Unless it's a backup, which doesn't make sense given how confident you are in crypto. Some of your posts are very contradictory.

        • +1

          My posts are contradictory because you are applying your own personal prejudices to it. To me they are not.

          You have millions from crypto and you work a day to day job as well?

          Why do you think rich people continue to work? I know that boredom will be the biggest issue when I retire, therefore I'm not going to retire unless I know I have something to do. I have a job which I enjoy and getting highly paid for ($200+k salary), so why not continue to work? Work for me is not a chore, I enjoy it a lot, the money is just the cherry on top. I work because I want to, not because I have to.

          I know its very hard to understand for people up to their eyeballs in debt to understand and they must work otherwise they can't pay off their mortgage/s. I empathize with those people, I pity them but no one forced them into that situation, no one forced them to sign on the dotted line for their mortgage/s.

          One of the benefits of investing into crypto is I have no significant debt. No debt to chain me to my job, which has allowed me be bold and quit to find other better opportunities and better pay.

          You wrote that in 3 months you made about $400,000 AUD

          I've made a lot more than $400k AUD. Refer to above why I continue to work.

          Why would you bother given the magnitudes of money more you'd make if you just went 100% into crypto?

          I'm already pretty much 100% into crypto. Apart from selling down to get around $2.5 mil AUD to pay my taxes and purchase a property to live in, everything else apart from my emergency fund and daily expenses fund is in crypto, which is a vast majority of my net worth.

          Everyone have their own individual circumstances and prejudices, of course if you overlay yours over mine, it would seem contradictory.

          I can totally understand how it would seem contradictory to someone who works a job they don't like, $400+k would mean they can tell their boss to stick it. I totally get it. That's not my life though, but I get it. For me, it would be a bitter sweet moment when I retire, bitter because I enjoy my job so much, sweet because it would be the beginning of a new chapter.

          Let's see what the future holds. :)

  • +1

    ROFL, love how he has in bold what his view on cryptocurrency is “ its for educational/entertainment/lively debating purposes only.”
    Educational because you’ll lose your money
    Entertainment because I get entertained by people that lose all their money
    lively debating… because he likes debating with the masses on cryptocurrencies worth. mass-debating while can be fun, it’s also a form of speculation.

    • -1

      Educational because you’ll lose your money

      How so? No investment is a sure thing of course, people have lost money in shares, property, commodities etc etc.

      Entertainment because I get entertained by people that lose all their money

      Wow, if you get entertainment from other people's misery, then gotta say, you are not a very good human.

      it’s also a form of speculation.

      What's the issue? Investment of any kind of a form of speculation. And?

  • +1

    Seems kinda stupid making threads like this. BTC well under 30k like a week later lol

    • Its been a week lmao.

      Plus, I haven't been able to buy any Bitcoin since mid-March when I got some for around $20k USD. I can't buy any since then because of this pump.

    • And now back to over 43k

      Stupid volatility

      • Yep, volatility = $$$

        Not financial advice, but buy the dip, that's what I've been doing.

  • +1

    Well, this has aged about as well as expected.

    • My posts will age like fine wine.

      Let me show you some articles that aged like milk from my private collection. All prices in USD.

      ‘Bitcoin Is Dead As Predicted’ – Seeking Alpha | $19,987.03 - https://seekingalpha.com/article/4519786-bitcoin-dead-as-pre…
      ‘Crypto Died Today’ – Twitter | $15,880.78 - https://twitter.com/rampcapitalllc/status/159045530738952601…
      ‘Crypto Is Never Coming Back’ – Twitter | $16,618.2 - https://twitter.com/chetan_bhagat/status/1592381582144593922…
      ‘Bitcoin Is On The Road To Irrelevance’ – ECB |$17,168.57 - https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2022/html/ecb.blog…

      This is the top tier stuff, these people has been proven very wrong.

      A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail | $955 - https://archive.nytimes.com/dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/…
      *The developers of bitcoin are trying to show that money can be successfully privatized. They will fail, because money that is not issued by governments is always doomed to failure… . Bitcoin, or something like it, will thrive until the authorities do better.* - Sound familiar? this has been well and truly debunked

      “How bitcoin is going to fail and why it is not a gold equivalent” – Fester’s Den | $787.05 - https://festersden.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-bitcoin-is-going…

      “Why Bitcoin Is Doomed To Fail” – moneygeek | $93.43 - This guy got it so wrong that he/she deleted their blog post lmao, here's the link but its dead, https://passiv.com/weblog/2013/04/11/why-bitcoin-doomed-fail…

      Comedy gold haha

      • Thing is, no one can predict the future, past indicators should not be used for future predictions.

        While BC is increasing steadily, it could crash next week…. and you're back at square one.

        I have both BC and ETH and when/if the market breaks even on what I spent, I will withdraw. If they sky rocket in 1 or 2 or 3 or 10 years, well that's my gamble right?

        • Thing is, no one can predict the future, past indicators should not be used for future predictions.

          If someone can predict the future, they'd be richer than Bernard Arnault (he's the richest person on Earth dethroning Elon Musk). However, people can predict when a technology is disruptive and will change the world. Eg, cars, smartphones and internet, now crypto.

          While BC is increasing steadily, it could crash next week…. and you're back at square one.

          My square one is Bitcoin at $800USD and ETH at around $11USD. I haven't been back at square one for quite a while.

          I have both BC and ETH and when/if the market breaks even on what I spent, I will withdraw. If they sky rocket in 1 or 2 or 3 or 10 years, well that's my gamble right?

          I was faced with this decision back in 2014, and I thought exactly the same as you. My BTC was at a loss pretty much immediately after I got it, and I didn't break even until 2014. I wanted to sell when it got back to $800USD, I'm very glad I didn't. I don't think I will ever sell the first 2 BTC I ever gotten from my very first buy order back in 2013.

    • 3 months in and it’s still aged like shit and he’s still here endlessly refusing to concede, and will no doubt endlessly reply to this with the same copypasta brain drain responses he’s been using for 90 days

  • -1
      • 9 years ago?

        Pretty sure the available evidence shows the big physical $$$ stash has been (is being) replaced (in a big way) with crypto,
        (for obvious reasons)
        Obviously not everyone involved in crypto is a crook, but there's a lot of denial from supporters about how attractive it is to crims. Much like the denial from the NRA that the USA has a gun problem.

        • Really just pointing out that crims will crim… the existance of cryptocurrency doesn't make it any more prevalent. You can cry from the rooftops that crypto is used by crims but fiat currency has been the medium of exchange for longer and is in fact way less traceable than crypto.

        • Here's a cash stash from 2022. I'm very sure it happens till this day. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/moment-bungling-dru…

          Cash is a better medium of exchange than Bitcoin. If any drug dealers are using Bitcoin, they are not very smart. Put it this way, during a drug transaction, unless the police has cameras or some other way to track it in real time, once its done, that transaction is untraceable. With Bitcoin on the other hand, the transaction is forever etched on the blockchain, completely immutable. All it takes is for one address to be traced back to one person, then the entire web unravels, because all other addresses that interacted with that one can be easily found.

          So using Bitcoin for drugs, is not very smart and that's a reason why fiat currency remains the medium of choice for them.

          • @techlead: Drugs is not the only form of crime,either.

            ( I appreciate the journalistic genius of using the term 'penny drop' when reporting on the guys missing $7.2M stash ).

            • @Protractor: Ok then… so describe a crime where the criminal could use bitcoin and it would be untraceable even with the knowledge of the offenders wallet?

              "Drugs is not the only form of crime, either." was a terrible argument… since this thread was a response to an article about a drug dealer getting caught selling drugs for cryptocurrency…

              • @mitchalbrown: I'm pretty sure you have a search engine.
                I've already posted multiple examples of this part of the discussion, in this thread.

                • @Protractor: I believe the onus of proof on any statement is on the person making the statement… but thats cool man…

                  • @mitchalbrown: Exactly.

                    I think unicorns exist, prove me wrong.

                    You can't? Therefore, unicorns exist.

  • An honourable aspiration.
    This forum would be a very sparse reading market place, for your beliefs, if the latest threads are the norm, but that I agree with the gist.
    It doesn't dilute the fact that lots have crooks jumped on the crypto bandwagon, and any 'honourable' BTC players are in the wake of all that.

    • +1

      I really don't see the issue with "crooks" jumping on any bandwagon, criminals are gonna crime. They will use any tool, you can't ban them all.

      I just opened my email, there's so much junk, phishing and scam emails there, not just in the junk folder, some has made it into my main inbox too. Are we gonna start banning email?

      Did you read about all these love and investment (not crypto related) scams? Where criminals impersonal or make up some bank and say we will give you 10% interest for this term deposit? Are we gonna start banning all the tools these "crooks" used to perpetrate these scams?

      Where is it going to end? If you go down this path, you'd end up banning everything.

  • +1

    I like to prove it prove it. I like to PROVE IT!

    26k

    • Definitely correlated to Aussie/ USD.

      Maybe btc is a good barometer for global growth/expected growth?

      • At this point it just follows global market sentiment. When US(which accounts for the majority) is down BTC is down, when US is up BTC is up.

        • I think AUD also follows market sentiment

  • I know the markets have it as a small chance like 1-3% bur BTC is `^ed if a USD debt default happens.

  • lol Yes, it's thin air.

    • Define "thin air"? This thin air seems to be pretty solid. I'm still waiting for BTC to dip more to buy more. Fortunately I did buy the minor dip to get some BTC at $25k USD in June.

      BTC is now over $31k USD now. I haven't bought enough, the FOMO is real…

      • Look out the window and see what thin air is. It floats, sinks and disperses without discipline. Yes, it's thin air. Try not to wander off when it crashes again.

        • That's the thing, BTC doesn't float, sink or disperses without discipline. There's a reason for its price movements, and it has never broken long term trend. Which means it wouldn't be visiting $3k or even $10k USD ever again, barring some black swan world ending event, if realised, money would be the least of your worries.

          I've been in Bitcoin since 2013, I have experienced many "crashes". Its undisputable that its the best asset to have. In other words, if you were teleported back to 2013 with all the knowledge you know now, what asset would you buy? If you want to maximise your returns, you wouldn't be buying any index funds, nor property, Bitcoin will beat them all.

          • @techlead: Your whole premise is wrong:

            "If you want to maximise your returns"

            That's not how investment works. Try the casino instead. Stop using OZB to lure others in.

            But you call what you're doing "investment", so you're legally required to have a license to offer advice. Otherwise this thread needs to close.

            • @mun4: Hahaha, this BS again. No I'm not giving financial advice and I still have not been contacted by ASIC. I've made many many posts like this before, nothing has happened because I'm not giving financial advice.

              I'm not "luring" anyone in.

            • @[Deactivated]: Let's see if that plays out.

              I compared this with property, I think people would be pretty happy with a 2x return in 10 years for property, let alone talking about months/years in crypto world. That's why I didn't buy an investment property, I bought the crypto winter dip.

  • +1

    Its quite clear that Bitcoin has performed very well since its inception in 2009, no hater can change that. Its a pretty interesting concept, whether it will gain even more adoption remains to be seen, but it has already come a long way, I doubt even its creator/s would have predicted one BTC would be worth $30k USD today!

  • ive been holding since 2015, dont tell the tax man guys ok?

    • You don't need to tell the tax man if you are holding since 2015, as long as you don't sell, the tax man don't need to know about it.

  • +1

    Bitcoin has blasted through the $30k USD level once again and its value is also boosted by the depreciating AUD.

    It appears the SEC is on the cusp of approving a spot Bitcoin ETF which is huge, it will push Bitcoin to $100+k USD I think.

    Not financial advice for those who think it is, only my opinions.

  • Its funny reading about Bitcoin's supposed "demise", but it always bounces up to higher highs.

  • +1

    This aged well

    • +1

      Thanks, told ya, it aged like a fine wine!

  • +1

    Is the point that Bitcoin is only used for criminals settled now? The SEC is poised to approve a spot BTC ETF which will open the floodgates to money into the cryptocurrency space as well as ETFs for other coins like ETH, ADA etc.

    Bitcoin returns will easily surpass most shares and property in the next 5 years. Not financial advice.

  • +1

    Where are all the crypto haters at?

    • +1

      Their jaws are on the floor looking at the BItcoin price lol

      • Hopefully the price continues.

  • SEC has made Bitcoin legitimate with the approval of the spot Bitcoin ETF!

    • Yeah, that's great news. As more funds will start allocating to it. Even a modest 1-3% should bring Bitcoin price to a great level.

  • +1

    Geez, this post has aged so well it proved all the BTC naysayers wrong again

    • +1

      Naysayers are proven well and truly wrong once again. :)

    • OzBargain preferred recovery service is Bikies

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