Doctors Not Accepting New Patients

sammyq on 11/07/2023 - 02:12
Last edited 11/07/2023 - 12:01

Ok I've recently moved to the northern suburbs of Melbourne and I'm having trouble finding a GP that is willing to accept new patients. Anyone know why it's the case? They seem to have a few appointments available on healthengine/hotdoc but I can't book any of them.

Edit: looks like I find a couple of appointments for clinics that will accept new patients but the earliest appointment is at least 2 days away. I'm thinking maybe I should sign up to as many clinics as I can before they also stop accepting new patients (only because it is difficult to book an appointment if I only rely on one clinic. At least if I have signed up to multiple clinics there's a better chance of me getting an appointment on short notice). I've also noticed some clinics are charging $50 for a sign up fee…

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Comments

      • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 12/07/2023 - 20:23

        well it should be integrated with MyGov, Medicare. I don't think the Admin is going to be an issue because there is already a co-payment system in place and is largely automated. The clinic sets its consultation fees and medicare covers the fixed amount and then you cover the difference. The only difference is the higher you earn, the higher proportion of the co-payment. if your than 300K a year, sorry you should be able to cover close to 100% of the consultation fee, if you are earning 150K maybe you pay 50% and on a sliding scale, anyone earning less than 15K has the fee fully covered .Also the clinic should not know where you sit on the scale medicare sorts that out

    • PVA on 12/07/2023 - 18:05
      +1

      Because with out it people then start going to hospitals emergency area for treatment for simple things they should be going to their local GP for, so they can save some money.
      Bulk bill amount should be raised so it saves hospitals more.

      • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 12/07/2023 - 20:29
        -2

        That's not a good reason for Bulk Billing, If people are showing up to emergency for minor issues like a sick note, it's important for the triage staff to set expectations. Being transparent with people who show up is the key here. Ok show up with a minor ailment like a cut finger that just needs a band aid, you wait 48 hours to be attended to . It's a prioritisation queue not a FIFO queue. Show people where they are in the queue an who they are competing against for prioritisation. I think people will soon get the message not to show up to emergency because you didn't want to pay $50 for a GP consult.

        • PVA on 13/07/2023 - 11:50
          +2

          It may not be a good idea. But its what happens when peiple have zero spare money.

    • IgG on 14/07/2023 - 00:15

      Specialists can and sometimes do bulk bill, but most don't.
      Sadly medicare rebates for specialists are much higher on a time wise basis. EG a review appointment for a specialist physician is about $146 (eg item 123) but for a GP is only $41.20 (item 36).

  • mountaineer on 12/07/2023 - 18:34
    +2

    GP needs to be paid more.. period! Or we are losing one of the bedstone of universal health care.

  • Brianqpr on 12/07/2023 - 18:48
    +5

    Maybe if all the money forced into private health funds that offer very poor value was directed towards Medicare things might be better.

    • spedohero on 13/07/2023 - 01:08
      -1

      Thanks for sharing, so GP is self employed and raking in $250k is sweet. How many hours do you work per week, and i am assuming no super for ya?

      • May4th on 13/07/2023 - 10:19
        +3

        that doesn't sound like much at all if you factor in the fact that 250k without super/annual leave sick leave, or potential for long service leave/parental leave. That'd be closer to 180k as an employee with those benefits

        Many middle management professional jobs with 3 years uni would hit that mark within 5-10 years, with no weekend hours working a 38hr week with less work compared to GP whose 50hrs per week involves seeing patients/doing admin every second of your working day. No "coffee with team" no mindless meetings to zone out on or office chit chat / team building drinks. Not having to worry about your patients at night or getting sued / complaints because someone did not get the script for their drug of choice, or pay for expensive insurance/registrations.

        No wonder no one wants to go into GP

        • spedohero on 14/07/2023 - 17:54
          +1

          $180,000 within 5 to 10 years lol. Many of my mates only hitting $100,000 in 40s. Only few made it to senior mangers maybe at $120,000 to $150,000. Do you know many percentage of our workforce actually earn $180,000.

          • May4th on 15/07/2023 - 07:17

            @spedohero: don't get me wrong, 180k is a good wage that <10% of people will be on. but arguably there's a lot more of those jobs out there with less hours expenses and risk compared to a doctor whose first year as a fully qualified GP / specialist will be equivalent to other people's 6th to 10th in employment. I know a couple of people in law/financial services who are on that ballpark within 10years out from uni, a lot more in the low 100s and a select few above and beyond in non medical fields. if you set out to make money there's easier ways to go about it than going into healthcare

            • spedohero on 15/07/2023 - 13:49
              +2

              @May4th: GP is recession proof. Anyway, it is less than 5% of Australia workforce raking in $180,000.

              • techno2000 on 15/07/2023 - 16:58
                +2

                @spedohero: I never heard of any Doctor being unemployed or any Doctor getting made redundant.The median income in Australia is only around $70,000.

  • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 12/07/2023 - 20:36
    +2

    Hi Dr Christian,
    Thanks for your transparency and being open about your remuneration. No one should begrudge your earning capacity given the years of sacrifice you have dedicated in getting there.
    the numbers are confusing. Are you a considered a Sole trader ie contract for hire or a freelancer?
    Does that mean you brought in 390K of revenue and took home 250K. and my god what are those "service fees" 120K

    • Klasglart on 12/07/2023 - 21:12

      Those are the service fees charged by the practice for rent, admin, staffing costs and everything else required to run a practice. 30% is reasonably standard.

      • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 12/07/2023 - 22:08

        Does that mean GP's aren't Salaried by the clinic? and essentially they are "renting" the consultation room and the clinic takes 30% cut of their consultation fees that they bring in to cover operating expenses of the clinic. I need wendover productions to do a deep dive on the operating economics of GP clinics

        • Klasglart on 12/07/2023 - 22:20
          +2

          The majority of arrangements are not salaried nor are they contractors. This is the grey area which is why the payroll tax from the states is controversial in defining their arrangement. S&Ws for reception, nurse, administration and other costs such as supplies, rent, general overhead etc are funded from the service fee revenue and potentially others in renting space for pathology etc. There isn’t much scope for profit.

          Back in the day the operating model was different with doctors owned their own clinics but now it is being corporatised for economies of scale because it is simply not viable anymore.

          • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 13/07/2023 - 00:13
            +1

            @Klasglart: "Not Salaried, not indépendant contractors" This is doing my head in because I come from a corporate background where my company gives me a salary for the skills and services I provide to the company. When there is higher volumes of work they can bring in external contractors (at a higher rate) to scale to the needs of the day. The bean counters then do all the numbers where the pay the operating expenses and ensure the company is generating the right amount of revenue. If the Clinic's revenue model is to optimise what each service provider brings in revenue there is a real economic incentive on throughput which can be in conflict with thoroughness. what's next an "uber" style disruption of general practice.

            • Klasglart on 13/07/2023 - 08:59
              +3

              @H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS: The MBS model is pretty much just fee for service with no incentives on tying into quality or outcomes. The MBS taskforce was meant to review this but there is no real appetite for major reform. There are clinic incentives on throughput and low value tests at times for results which may lead to another consult and thereby more billing. Meanwhile, state run hospitals are filled with T4/T5 patients in ED to fill the void made by the GP’s. Urgent care centres won’t help either. Fundamentally it is broken because MBS is outdated and not fit for purpose. Now you have state health networks trying to run primary care for their populations because of failure in the primary care space. Doctors don’t want to be GP’s when being a non-specialist in a state hospital can pay more let alone being a salaried consultant in a public hospital.

      • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 13/07/2023 - 10:41
        +1

        Well if you're bringing home 200K+ pa then you are on a pretty good wicket, Whilst you spent many years to get there you'll overtake most people over a lifetime. Also Banks allow you to take out larger loans at lower interest rates when it comes to buying a house as your job is pretty much recession proof. They only way you can lose your earning potential if you really stuff up and lose your registration

      • xdigger on 13/07/2023 - 20:12

        Doctors are seriously rich, why don't you bulkbill more? Do you really need $200K+ to survive?

  • kaleidoscope on 12/07/2023 - 23:37

    Ok I've recently moved to the northern suburbs of Melbourne and I'm having trouble finding a GP that is willing to accept new patients. Anyone know why it's the case?

    Lol. we’re already at max capacity in nothern suburbs. Some gps are not allowed to take new patients as instructed by the medicare. You might think what’s the big deal, but the problems is they have to do follow ups afterwards (as explained by my gp)

    Edit: looks like I find a couple of appointments for clinics that will accept new patients but the earliest appointment is at least 2 days away.

    It has been the case for few years now

    I'm thinking maybe I should sign up to as many clinics as I can before they also stop accepting new patients

    🤷‍♂️

    I've also noticed some clinics are charging $50 for a sign up fee…

    Yup, thank the govt for not increasing the min payments for so many years… But this can in return make things better is my opinion. Because now that there is a gap fee, people don’t crowd the clinics as much for every little thing.

  • SydBoy on 13/07/2023 - 03:29
    +1

    Looks like most comments on this thread are from GP who is wasting their time writing here instead of working… LoL

      • Save Medicare on 13/07/2023 - 07:05
        +3

        I assume sydboy would prefer if these selfish GPs wouldn't waste their time eating or sleeping either. This is why no one can get an appointment.

      • shaybisc on 13/07/2023 - 08:34
        +1

        So has your income basically topped out 8 years after graduation, barring Medicare rebate increases or working crazy hours?

  • idonotknowwhy on 13/07/2023 - 09:41

    Can't you just go here https://www.hotdoc.com.au/ and book one online?

    And I've used this a few times when I just need a script or I'm too (profanity) to leave the house (cheap telehealth with a random GP)
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.instantcon…

  • Protractor on 13/07/2023 - 10:35
    -2

    Wonder why Drs are fully red-lined.
    OP Quote
    " I'm thinking maybe I should sign up to as many clinics as I can before they also stop accepting new patients"

    I think your headline question may be rhetorical.

    There are other scams ppl use to 'bypass' goodwill and sensible use of a stretched GP system, but I won't be the one putting more ideas into peoples heads. If we 'as a community' were smart. (Flu shots,stay home etc) then Drs right now would have more openings. Our behaviours during & since covid have broken the system. We are our own worst enemies. And the kicker is the sheer amount of people .
    And every one of us want it all and we want in now. If a person can randomly score a Drs appt in 2 days it's a bloody miracle. Still not happy.
    Imagine the stress at EDs where the lowest of medical sponges gravitate for free treatment (I don't mean genuine emergency cases )

  • Protractor on 13/07/2023 - 10:55
    -1

    Too many humans.
    THE END

  • whitepuma on 13/07/2023 - 10:59

    Supply and demand

    Not enough doctors, too many people that need their services

    Hence why doctors get paid the big coin.

  • hawkshead on 13/07/2023 - 11:13

    I don't know but I imagine that there's a limit to how many people you can safely propose to offer services to before you're stretched too thin for it to be safe?
    Or maybe some people just dont like you?

  • ilikeverycheapstuff on 13/07/2023 - 11:50
    +2

    Just a thought… maybe:
    - Cost of inflation leading to higher wages to pay clinic staff and resources
    AND
    - Public perception that seeing the GP should be free/ bulk billed etc. Simply put, we were spoilt for way way too long. We expect our own salary to go up because of inflation, grocery prices to go up, fuel prices to go up but never a doctor's clinic.
    AND
    - Quality of people going in for help. Just take a look at the society and just imagine trying to help them from the GP's perspective. Wouldn't YOU be sick of your job by now?

    Just food for thought. Happy to be corrected.

  • SydBoy on 13/07/2023 - 13:41
    -2

    This is just a joke thread….. why not name suburb where you can't find doctor who don't take new patients in Melbourne ?

    Sydney and Melbourne has enough GP and the doctor who don't accept new patients are normally close to retirement and they have had patient list who been seeing them for over a decade so they want to slow down with those regular customers i guess .. !!!

    For out of pocket expense is very common across australia unless you are in Sydney and Melbourne where most GP do bulk billing … because there are so many of them and majority don't want to go and live in Dubbo or Orange or Albury and charge patient out of pocket .. !

  • Ruckmauler on 13/07/2023 - 13:47

    GP's will be a thing of the past when AI is integrated into practices. You'll have a nurse attaching the device for the essential physicals and entering answers etc. Couldn't come soon enough around my way - the majority of the time I've recovered before my appointment date.

    • SydBoy on 13/07/2023 - 13:50

      very true and google is working on it … already … so those who will stay in demand will be specialist only until such time machine learn to treat you .. lol

      it will be more like scifi movies .. you enter the change and chamber will scan you and then diagnose your disease and then inject medicine or give you some sort of laser treatment and you come out of the box new .. lol :D :D :D…. !

      • techno2000 on 13/07/2023 - 13:56

        Yeah the days of GP's getting "Peanuts" $300k for prescribing panadol and amoxicillin and med certs will be over soon.

        • grant17 on 13/07/2023 - 17:36
          +8

          It's very disheartening to think this is how some people perceive a career that my wife and I have spent over 10 stressful years working towards. GP is a tough gig. It is hard work, very stressful, very draining and very difficult. Anyone who says otherwise, including those in the medical profession, have no idea what the job actually entails. Just because you only go to your GP to pressure them into giving amoxil for your viral URTI, and to give you a medical certificate (that your employer has decided you need), it doesn't mean that's all we do.

          • xdigger on 13/07/2023 - 20:15
            -2

            @grant17: Tell us what your 'stressful' job entails then? Most of us will be dreaming to get this so-called $200-300K job mate.

            • May4th on 13/07/2023 - 20:40
              +4

              @xdigger: go to medical school and you can find out. there's mature age students as old as mid 40s at some medical schools. If you think it's so easy why doesn't everyone do it? we always think other people's jobs are easy, ie. 'Teachers get 3months off every year,' 'all accountants do is sit in front of a computer and put numbers on a spread sheet'

            • Dognosis on 13/07/2023 - 21:02
              +1

              @xdigger: Look at ausdoc.com.au and occasionally you will see stories and discussions within the medical community, including general practice, about some of the stressors.

              Maybe your job is more stressful, whatever it is, but when you have to make decisions about people's health and run the risk of being sued for it, that can surely get pretty stressful. If you've worked in retail, you know how shitty, deluded some people can get? Now imagine those same shitty, deluded people in your office but you cant just tell them to piss off without first being damn sure they wont spin it to AHPRA that you're a negligent Dr.

            • grant17 on 14/07/2023 - 13:36

              @xdigger: Mate, here's all the information you need to make your dream a reality.

              https://www.ama.com.au/resources/how-to-become-a-doctor

              Feel free to message me in 15 years
              when you have finally realised your dream, to tell me whether you think the pay is worth it or not. I guarantee you I know what the answer will be.

            • SpainKing on 14/07/2023 - 14:20
              +2

              @xdigger: You don't have to dream lazy bones, you too can become a doctor with enough hard work and dedication (don't forget to give up earning a full wage that whole period)

  • SydBoy on 13/07/2023 - 13:48
    +2

    my physio charge $80 and mostly busy in Sydney so why can't GP charge more then Medicare and stay busy ? because they wanted easy money so wasting time trying to increase Medicare rebate instead of excelling in their skills … !

    most GP gives Panadol or Nurofen or do test for everything before making any decision and when that decision is made it is mostly to see specialist who will give you appointment after few month … lol .. !!

  • tessel on 13/07/2023 - 14:58

    2 days? Pretty good mate. I'm usually a week or two here in NW Tas.

  • capslock janitor on 13/07/2023 - 17:57

    this was a problem i observed too, when calling around for a gp closer to me

  • love2buy on 14/07/2023 - 12:27

    For me, I have to go there in person to make an appointment just to see them in the afternoon. No phone appointments which is ridiculous.

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