Neighbour Has Extremely Large Weekly Gatherings (200+ people) VIC

Just after some advice about if this is legal. I cant imagine it is.

My neighbour has some form of religious gathering every week which can often attract more than 200 people.

I'm sure that gatherings that are this large and this regular surely would need at least a permit (which they wouldn't have) but I've tried searching to find an actual law or regulation about it and cant for the life of me. The house they attend is a small 3 bedroom house on a 900m² block so the event is mostly outside.

Anyone able to point me in the right direction? We are in Hobson Bay council in Victoria.

Some more background:

The 'events' are usually between Wednesday to Sunday and are from 7pm to 10pm and have been going on for about 3 months now.
The people themselves aren't all that annoying to be honest. Besides some sometimes very loud praying they aren't actually any noisier than you'd expect 200ish people to be.

The main issue is the cars.

Our street is a normal outer suburban melbourne street with mostly 3 bedroom houses on it. Each night there would be 1 or 2 cars parked on the street.
Tonight is the biggest one yet (hence the post) and I have just counted 98 cars on the street that I don't recognise and its between 2 and 4 people that usually get out of each car (mostly families).

And they park like absolute d***heads. They park over and in peoples driveways and often on other neighbours front lawns (actual lawns, not just the nature strip).

Im not even too sure how to comlpain to council to be honest. How do you photo 100 cars on a street at night time and prove which address they are going to?

Comments

  • +3

    @Muzeeb

    • +30

      JVism, as a religion, will be on the next census.

    • +7

      Events like this need a permit and traffic management.

      Do it on a regular basis and the location needs a planning permit, which won't ever be approved as there isn't adequate infrastructure or parking.

      Residential zone, cannot have a church/town hall/business without formal planning permit.

      Not to even say you need the correct class of building to accommodate such a large mount of people, even if they are outside, having just 50 of those people inside a house poses a significant fire hazard. Where do they go to the toilet honestly?

      • +1

        @ jv can you confirm mate

        • +6

          The law doesn't apply to jv

  • +48

    How do you photo 100 cars on a street at night time and prove which address they are going to?

    But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
    Matthew 19:26

    • +1

      See also Matthew 21:17

    • +3

      Loaves, fishes and now ….. cars.

    • +11

      OP hasn't shed light on whether they are praying to Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Muzeeb, JV or Dan Andrews

      • +7

        Dan doesn't desire worship… he merely demands complete obedience.

        • +2

          And votes

          • +7

            @skillet: So you’re against democratic elections? Or just when the outcome isn’t one you’d prefer?

    • +4

      Program a drone to do a standard flight path up and down each side of the parked out street/s, and then of the house where the event is going on. Do not fly over the property itself, simply high enough in the street to record the number of people outside its dwelling. Stay high enough to not upset anyone.

      Do the fly over regularly for a few days or s, and edit the footage down to the worst parts each time. Record key stats like number of people, number of cars in the street (vs normal) and the number dangerously/illegally parked.

      Resist publishing it on irresponsible social sites like faecesbook for maximum uptime- it may have legal consequences, so perhaps seek legal advice, and do a reality check on whatever they tell you, first*

      Note: Flying a drone is likely illegal and should only be done as a last resort fully aware of the consequences. That said, Real Estate Agents do this about as often as they break the ethical and moral mores, too- at least they do around our place, anyhow!

  • +11

    Video footage? Or get them to send a ranger or to witness for themselves?

    • +1

      Unless you had the council on speed dial im not sure how you would get them here as I cant see any rhyme or reason to the days (perhaps due to my ignorance of this particular religion?). Video drive through might be an option

      • +20

        There's an app for that.

        Snap Send Solve. Submit one per car parked dodgy every time you see it. Hobsons Bay does respond to them.

        • After hours? Good luck!

          • +1

            @elcap: Some councils will send a fine in the mail.

          • +9

            @elcap: My council contractor will be there within 10 minutes in a white Hyundai. If they are blocking the drive way the car will be towed in 15 minutes. Regardless of time.

            • +1

              @skillet: Wow that's impressive.
              I guess there wasn't enough people reporting it in my case

            • @skillet: Wow! Unreal. We've a trailer parked in front of the house for last 4 months in 2P zone. We informed council few times but they said, "we can't do much as we've already sent a letter to the owner". They asked us to report to police :-(

              • +2

                @deepdag: They should be eligible for a fine daily.

              • +1

                @deepdag: wow that's so dangerous to leave a trailer out on the side of the road everyday, what if the trailer got moved without authorize? what if the trailer got damaged by unknown? I am sure deepdag won't be responsible if the trailer got damaged "accidentally"?

                • @OMGJL: Thank you. Trailer has sand blasting equipment on it loaded which I believe is quite expensive but somehow the owner seems to not care. I did try door knocking few houses in neighbourhood but no luck.

      • +1

        does it warrant nuisance police call

        • I didn’t think so, that’s why haven’t called. Hoping Karma will come back to bite the owner.

      • +8

        If you keep reporting them through that app - a ranger makes your street part of their usual route. Fines people on weekends.
        I use to live in hobson bay council and had a very busy street with loads of people parking illegally.

        Worked fine for me when I would report them.

        • +7

          Yes, councils usually love this repeat offender stuff. After a couple of complaints, they'll come do ticket runs at all hours.

      • +2

        listen to the prayer - type that in chatgpt and ask when will be the next gathering ;-p

  • +37

    That is a pretty impressive feat. 200 people at a 3br residence. Heck I don’t think I most people could even find 200 people to come to their house. Let alone on a weekly basis!

    • +9

      maybe they advertise as house for rent for 100 bucks.
      that will bring millions there

      • +9

        They must have advertised it for $600pw, that's why they're only attracting 200 people 😉

    • how big's the land? gotta be huge ?

    • How does OP know it's 200 people? Did he actually count?

      • +10

        Says in the post: 98 cars, 2-4 people per car.

  • +9

    Call the cops

    • +7

      why?

    • -1

      People get outright abuse from the cops for calling them to actual crimes, sometimes.

      I can't imagine many would bother coming for this without even a specific law being broken.

      • +3

        Nah, somebody called the cops on my neighbour's wedding multiple times and they came out twice. If it's a noise complaint they'll come out, if noise gets above a certain level it becomes an issue apparently.

    • +1

      Bikies would get the job done faster.

  • +42

    Just enquire with the council first and they will be able to direct you to information about what is permissible and not.

    Then you could take a look through the info and take it up with the council further, or pop around to your neighbours to have a chat about it.

    Councils are eager to make sure their rules are respected, so if the gathering is in breach they will be happy to look into it (most likely).

    • +3

      This ^. Just talk or to council with what you had mentioned here and they will advice next steps. Good luck!

    • +5

      Councils pay employees to respond to inquiries of this nature. Firstly, formulate the question and ask it on a forum such as OzBargain to identify key items of concern. Secondly, refine the wording of the inquiry, to clarify and frame your concerns in a way that the council should take seriously. Then finally, raise the matter with the council. I've found that email is often a good way to communicate with them.

      email [email protected]
      All emails will be actioned within business hours, Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm.
      https://www.hobsonsbay.vic.gov.au/Council/Contact-us

      More specifically, I suggest you are raising a complaint regarding a new use for an existing building.
      https://www.hobsonsbay.vic.gov.au/Services/Planning-Building…

      Note that it's possible that these guys already filed all the necessary paperwork with the council. Apparently council approval is often a hurdle for opening a place of public worship in the suburbs of Australia. Adequate parking is often one of the reasons for rejection, with zoning, traffic, and noise generation also being a challenge. If you have time after submitting your inquiry to the council, you might refer your neighbours to this agency, which claims a 98% success rate for council approvals of places of worship.

      https://councilapproval.com.au/place-of-public-worship/

      Note that Councils are really not all that good at taking action. They love to say no but if they never get asked, they will dither for a while. You might need to file a formal complaint that gets read during council meeting rather than simply being assessed by a paid council worker.

      • +1

        Good advice but I'd add contact the elected local councillor for your area. Especially if there's an upcoming election they can be surprisingly helpful in getting things happening

    • +26

      Like I said, got no issue with the people or the activity itself. Just the size of it all

    • +26

      Tell me you missed the point of the OP without telling me you missed the point.

    • +34

      Hard disagree. There's a time and place for religious worship with a large crowd and a suburban home is not one of them.

      Community halls are easy to book and rent.

    • +2

      Lol why are Aussie neighbours boring. Here we are with a street full of god knows who and this is the problem. Grow up

    • +5

      Let’s give this guy a street in his suburb full of gathering individuals and see how he likes it. Might change his tone a little bit when his peaceful enjoyment of his land is distributed by a bunch of people!

      • +1

        What's the joke? Where's the punch line? You don't seem to understand what a "joke" is. There's literally nothing to be read here other than straight forward sensible suggestions. If it's something absurd, low brow or degradating dark humour. But it's none of that. Dude's simply missed the point and tried to reason sensibly.

        • +2

          The joke is called sarcasm. Look it up.

          • +1

            @MuddyClear: Sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. Or something people fall back on when they try to claim they were "just joking bro".

            • +4

              @smartazz104: True. But perhaps sarcasm is the lowest form of wit only to those who have never mastered the art, and those who always fall victim to it.

        • +1

          Aussie's are meant to have a self-deprecating sense of humour - obviously by the down votes, they don't. Are we that thin-skinned?

    • I live in about a diverse suburb as you can get and all our neighbours are from different countries but this would piss me off to no end.

    • Your worse scenario sounds pretty perfect to me

    • +2

      True but as someone who lives less than 50m from a church, the parking thing is VERY annoying. We're talking cars EVERYWHERE including (as OP said) across drive ways and nature strips. I guarantee you, you would find it annoying. It's not a diverse cultural experience. It's watching people park everywhere to go to an event that you're not invited to.

      One of my biggest regrets is cutting back a tree that was moving across the nature strip. Because that opened up a perfect car park looking spot in front of my house. And yes, people park on it. Why? Only god knows and they're not talking.

      • I'd call the ranger on them and get them towed every time.

    • Like the good (bad) old days? Was terrible. Everyone getting along and being friendly, kids playing with each other, looking out for each other. Glad those days are over.

  • +25

    Sounds mostly like a parking issue which would be a council response.

    • +73

      Sort of disagree. It's at such a scale that it's an impressive event and especially as it's regular. There's a reason there are community's halls and dedicated places of worship. A suburban house isn't suitable.

      I'm sure if i attempted to get a permit for a 200+ person event council would want me to have enough parking, toilets space etc

        • Yeh I agree. It's not the sort of event to call police over or anything silly. I don't think they even realise it would require a permit etc

          • +3

            @mfazackerley: There’s the non emergency police line you can call

          • -1

            @mfazackerley: so they aren't christian prayers you are hearing?

            cool.

            call the police, its what they are paid for - public order.

      • +2

        Get the council rangers out there often enough and they might start rethinking the location.

    • +8

      Lol 90 cars parked in the street hosting a gathering and doing nothing wrong. This kind of get togather belongs in a local hall not a local residential street

  • +14

    First call the cops
    Second call the council
    Third call your mother
    Fourth ask OzB.

    • +23

      flip that around and behold reality

      • +1

        Reality also does not mean sensibility.

    • -2

      His mum called me ❤️

      • +2

        After she called me 🧡

  • +2

    Get some trailers and park.

    Then charge for parking.

  • +14

    Good time to set up a car wash in your driveway.

  • +29

    u need to 1 up him….

    ozbargain party at mfazackerley house
    im sure we can get a couple thousand

    • +8

      What do you want on the menu? I'll get the order in asap.

      • +12

        We'll all stop by Maccas and order an app deal.

        You just supply the beer 🍻

        • +5

          … and the toilet paper and brush.

      • +6

        we will bring maccas and KFC
        we just need the location!

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