Would you pay slightly more for Australian built
appliances. I’m talking about dishwashers, fridges, freezers and TVs etc.
And if not, why not?
Would You Pay More for Australian Made Appliances?
Iwantthebestprice on 04/08/2023 - 23:29
Last edited 04/08/2023 - 23:29
Last edited 04/08/2023 - 23:29
Poll Options
- 183Yes
- 376No
- 113Australia makes stuff?
- 5Vegemite
Comments
What percentage more would you pay for the exact same item?
Depends on the quality.
It's not as simple as that. I would likely favour Australian made over Chinese made but not over Japanese or German made, for example. Other factors like brand reputation, manufacturer's warranty duration and look and feel also play a part in deciding whether I think one appliance is worth more than another.
So basically, you're saying the quality.
@jv: How are you measuring the quality?
What is meant by made in Australia?
Is importing the individual components from overseas, and then assembling in Australia considered 'made in Australia'?
@Malik Nasser: When Kelvinator, originally 100% made in South Australia, started using cheap, imported compressors in their refrigerators, quality plummeted.
Source, I worked there as a student. 2 other family members worked there as well, one for 20 years.@DashCam AKA Rolts: For me, this whole area about where things are made is a bit grey.
When you say 'originally 100% made in South Australia', what exactly do you mean?
Were commodity materials mined, processed, smelted, refined, etc… in Australia (iron ore, copper ore, etc…)?
Then components such capacitors, resistors, inductors, IC's, etc… were also made in Australia?
Engineering design, electrical schematics, building and soldering of electrical circuit boards, construction of metal housing, molding of plastic components, etc… also done in Australia?
Final assembly and testing in Asutralia?
I find it hard to believe that Australia or any one country ever did all of that without global sourcing of parts (China and USA would still source base commodities from other countries).
Is there a standard or specification that describes how much 'added value' has to be contributed to the parts used in construction to then be able to use the term 'made in Australia' for the final product?@Malik Nasser: When I worked in the Keswick plant, we had a casting workshop making iron compressor heads and blocks in house from ingots coming from Whyalla, from Australian iron ore. Not sure about the pistons and con rods, but I believe it was also in-house.
All cabinets were pressed in house from Whyalla steel, again from Australian iron ore.
Don't know about the copper, but it was mined in the state at that time.
We had a plastic molding line at Woodville that made all of the internal components. They even recycled plastic damaged, or waste into parts bins used on site.
Electronics in refrigerators and freezers at the time were very simple and put together in-house, simple sensors and switches, probably brought in.
So yes, it was a genuine Australian made product, made from Australian materials, although I don't know the source of the refrigerant gas.
I still have a chest freezer from that period, that has been in continuous domestic use for around 40 years. The cabinet is beginning to rust, so it may be finally on its last legs.I still have a chest freezer from that period, that has been in continuous domestic use for around 40 years.
Those were the days. I sold my parents 51 year old 100% original, 98% perfect round shoulder auto defrost HMV/Kelvinator in 2010 for $600.
.
@DashCam AKA Rolts: I only got rid of my old Kelvinator a few years ago. weighed a ton and was rock solid reliable, though horribly horribly expensive to run which is why I eventually decided it was time for new (and the fact I was moving soon and the thought of getting that on the back of a ute again made me cringe).
@Malik Nasser: Some parts were imported. Start relays, overload cutout, thermostats, defrost thermostats etc. Where the steel for the cabinets, copper for the motors and aluminium for the evaporators came from I have no idea. Westinghouse, Kelvinator had their own compressors. Other OZ fridges/freezers ran Kirby compressors built at Milperra (Sydney).
Samsung compressors from Korea arrived in OZ along with Zanussi from Italy around 1984 seeing the death nell of Kirby's domestic market. Kirby is no longer OZ owned with compressors etc made in Japan and Thailand.
@DashCam AKA Rolts: I worked for Lysaghts (back in the 70's and 80's) who made the steel for Australian made cars. I remember Chrysler switching from a higher, rust resistant steel to a lower grade, cheaper steel for their car bodies and then people complaining about the rust coming through the paintwork a couple of years later. Moral… don't skimp on materials if you want to have a reputation for a quality product.
Minus 70% at a minimum.
What sorcery is this?
OP Posted and edited 23:29 and you're here at 23:30 replying to the original, un-edited, post.
Either you viewed the revisions and replied to the original for the lols, or you started replying <60s after OP posted, before their edit was published…
I got the draft of the thread posted to me for review.
slightly more
Lol
Why would I pay extra for Australian made appliances? Are they better in quality?
If they are making worse quality good at higher price, then I feel like they should've used that resources to do something that is more productive that actually is competitive in the market.
I’m talking if Australia made a brand similar to LG, Samsung or Sony etc for the above mentioned appliances.
Like how China made TLC to take on Samsung and LGHow China market operates is very different to Australian one. The central government can do whatever they want and they normally subsidise their businesses until they develop competitiveness in global market (or other companies die out because they cannot compete with amount of funding that Chinese government subsidises).
It's not a business choice I would make, if I were someone in Australia. I doubt you would be able to get that kind of subsidies in developed countries and without that kind of support, you would be forced to charge more. Normally starting fresh means you have to think about your initial investment, setting up infrastructure, logistics, all kind of costs that cannot be ignored, which will be passed onto the customers. First products are normally terrible as well, I think first exported car from Toyota flopped in US, because of how terrible it was. Normally, brands that have been operating in the market for long enough learns how not to massively mess up (normally, or they will probably die out).
Moving on from rambling, my main question would be, why would I want to pay for someone else's business's long term goal?
Why would Australian made be any better?
And although it’s hypothetical, i cant see how Australian produced electronics or White goods could ever be made at only a “slightly” higher price.
Username doesn’t check out.
I’m not saying they would be any better. I’m talking about australia becoming a manufacturing capital. Rather then being a country that makes money from property and Iron Ore, we become a manufacturing superpower that exports high quality appliances to the rest the world
If they are not going to be any better what is the advantage?
If your thinking jobs, there’s more of a skill shortage then job shortage in Australia. So it’s not really necessary.Those sorts of things would cost an arm and a leg to make here.
Who would be the market for an overpriced washing machine from Australia?Surely anything would be better than anything made in China.
@iCandy: Seems sort of racist. There are many price points. And as the manufacturing capital of the world, they have the experience to innovate and improve with each iteration. Assuming something is bad because of some conscious or unconscious racial bias is not Australian. Haha
@magikz: Some people see racism everywhere. It's just an opinion ( albeit a massive generalisation) about quality that has been forged and developed over years and through both experience and conversation. It's the same way ppl used to turn their nose up at made in Taiwan or think that German made was always a premium product. It's just a perception of quality based on country of manufacture. You can disagree but to call it racism is ridiculous.
There are many price points.
I had an interesting thought process on this the other day…
Think about all the "spray and wipe" type cleaners (or any product of your choice) you see on the shelf at the supermarket. Ignoring any re-badging or QA binning that may/may not be occurring, each of these products is trying to be the best in some respect. Whether that's the best cleaner, the best finish (streaks, residue), the best anti-bacterial, the best price, the best unit price, the best all round (quality + price, etc)… whatever it is, each of those products is trying to be the best at some angle.
Some products try to be better quality and believe that this warrants a higher price tag. Some products race to the bottom whilst still being "good enough".
@iCandy: China produces a lot of expensive good quality products.
Eg: most high end mobiles and car parts for high end manufacturers in other countries.
To assume all of their products are subpar to Australian standards is naive.
Sure they make a lot of junk too, but they cater to what the price point and market wants. They have the capability to make quality and crappy products.
The reality is we the consumers don’t want to pay a higher price just to buy Australian made junk. We would rather buy cheap junk made by people earning a pittance to keep the prices down.
re "If your thinking jobs, there’s more of a skill shortage then job shortage in Australia"
It's a chicken and egg type problem. If you wind down industries in Australia then there is no demand from that industry to ask TAFE and universities to offer courses that used to cater for that industry. Even if you find a course for a particular skill you then have to find an employer who will provide on-job-experience and a job. For example, a lot of the heavy engineering skills that NSW had for making trains at Goninans and ComEng disappeared when the NSW goverment decided to buy its trains from Korea, Spain and China. Ditto for ferries built in Indonesia and China.
The new NSW Labor government has vowed to bring train and ferry manufacturing back to NSW. Finally, somebody saw sense.The new NSW Labor government has vowed to bring train and ferry manufacturing back to NSW. Finally, somebody saw sense.
Good luck with that. My ex's uncle was factory manager for Clyde Engineering in Sydney. Was headhunted by Tulloch at Rhodes in the 60s.
In 1964, Tulloch delivered the first double-decker trailer cars for use in Sydney and 4 years later they developed the first double decker power cars.
A.E. Goodwin at Auburn (Sydney) built Diesel locos.
@scottishdave: I wouldn’t suggest to wind down industries here, my comments are more about if an industry has already wound down and moved overseas, theres not a lot of reason to bring it back.
Eg: most white goods as the op suggested.On a side note, i think there will be many people out of work in the years to come as automation/Ai becomes more prevalent.
So I wouldn’t be concerned about just manufacturing, id be concerned about a lot of industries.The new NSW Labor government has vowed to bring train and ferry manufacturing back to NSW. Finally, somebody saw sense.
Not sure I would call that sense. it is more pandering to the unions, bet you most of the parts will end up imported anyway. buying from overseas makes more sense when we don't mass produce and they do. though with something like trains and ferries I doubt it will make much difference cost wise either way.
We let secondary manufacturers go years ago and have moved on.
Unlikely we will go back.
I agree with you that as a nation we are overly reliant on mining and real estate, but I am extremely pessimistic about Australia becoming a manufacturing power like Japan or Germany. Despite a huge number of university graduates, we don't have the knowledge and skills for re-industrialization (most people just have garbage degrees like commerce and marketing). If we did succeed in making things again, they would be much more expensive than Chinese made, and even more expensive than German made. Lastly, nobody wants to work in a factory. People just want to sit behind a desk, occasionally tapping on a keyboard. Australian regard blue collar jobs as "beneath them".
One thing Australia could possibly do is manufacture pharmaceuticals rather than high tech items, but we would be competing with generics from India. Another thing Australia could consider is investing in is intellectual property generating industries (music, film, art, video games, software, writing). There would need to be large government incentives though to develop such industries.
Now that is something I would pay more for to be Australian made , pharmaceuticals. I hate the fact that country of manufacturer doesn't have to be shown on pharmaceuticals and I think it makes no sense considering it's shown on other consumables ie food. I would say that I prefer not to buy Indian pharmaceuticals due to previous known issues with medicine that have occurred but who knows someone might call me a racist.
Theres one very very very big problem in the global economy. Our labour cost. Simply put, our wages are way too high to make an economical goods in labour intensive manufacturing industries outside of highly specialised fields.
All the Asian powerhouses that dominate electronics now, started with cheap labour then acquired manufacturing expertise.
This is possible, if the factories are fully automated and you get away with minimal manual Labor. Give it a few years.
If Australian manufacturing became fully automated, what advantage would Australian made be?
Our factories and skeleton staff would still cost more then one in asia for the same product.
It's not just about labour costs, manufacturing in Australia is expensive also because of rent, infrastructure costs, taxes, utilities, compliance. There's probably more that I haven't thought about. Even if manufacturing was brought back into Australia, a lot of it would be automated and require minimal labour input anyway.
Regulations, standards and worker safety. I'd pay.
Regulations for robots?
The standards would be the same as they would have to pass the same quality assurance tests.
A skeleton staff in an automated manufacturing factory would be safe in most countries.
Im all for what you suggest, but I don’t think the majority of consumers are. It usually comes down to the $ and quality… not the origin or manufacturing process.
If the appliance is more reliable and not more expensive compared to other branded models, yes.
Yeah, those evil unions, stopping workers from getting 5 bucks an hour for 80 hour weeks with no sick leave.
Won't somebody please think of the fridge prices!?!
I’m not saying unions are bad, I’m saying it would be hard to compete with other countries who do not have unionised workforce. I was of the belief that car manufacturers stopped building in australia due to constant industrial action causing the manufacturing to become untenable. Well that’s what I’ve heard anyway could be wrong
@Iwantthebestprice: Yes it is hard to compete with countries that use slave labour. Most consumers only care about saving a dollar.
@Iwantthebestprice: German car industry is mostly unionised and hugely profitable - https://www.yesmagazine.org/issue/poverty/2014/08/29/why-are…
I would pay more for German goods. They're always excellent quality. My washing machine is a German Bosch from about 15 years ago. Quality.
But you're not actually buying it for the country, you're buying it for the quality.
It's simple nationalism to buy something of equal quality and price from one country and not another.
The real reason we buy German (and Japanese) stuff is cause those guys have earned their reputations for quality, not because we like bratwurst or anime or whatever.
True. The country is a sign of the quality to me. So I'd be more likely to buy a German (or Japanese) good because of the quality if I'm unsure.
In my experience LG stuff is as good as any made in Germany.
You mustn't have experienced LG's warranty process then.
Don't know about LG's but Bosch warranty process is @!#$@#$%
Would you pay more for German Miele than China Miele ?
Would you pay more for German Bosch than Turkey Bosch ?
Turkey Bosch sounds delicious.
The issue here is Bosch often make their more inferior designed products in cheaper countries and keep their higher end products in Germany.
They do push the German Bosch made ones as better with those massive stickers.
However I hate my german made dishwasher and my cousins bosch washer and drier purely on the fact they are hard to use.
Have used fisher and paykal washers and dishwashers in some houses and they are easy to use and I'm very sure my westing house fridge was made in australia.
That said, I would not pay more, when I know the quality is about on par.
For appliances it's also heavily dependent on the functionalityy and design
I would buy australian if they designed it to better cater for australian needs. No point giving us 100000 modes and buttons on a german washer when all i need is a fast wash button.
Yes I would, for one with wheels that you can drive legally on the road.
Those aus made adult dolls are getting out of hand 🫨
My Australian made F&P fridge is still going strong. Probably 14 years old.
But the quality of it would be arguably the same as its counterpart made in another country during the same time period.
All their products have to go through the same quality assurance inspections.
Sidenote: f&p hasnt been made in aus for a while, you might of got one of the last model’s before they moved manufacturing overseas.
Yeah it was definitely one of the last made here. I got it from their factory somewhere in Brisbane at a family & friends event.
Interesting survey.
No pride or faith in our produced goods.
Not sure on brands that made in Australian anymore. A country built on cheap resouces likely destined headed for tough times.There are some talks / initiatives on bringing battery manufacturing / processing on shore , rather than just exporting raw materials.
But easier said than done , with environmental impact (pollution / waste) and input costs (electricity / labour) being the major hurdles.Then there's also manufacturing for defence industry in the pipeline decades away.
Then there's also manufacturing for defence industry in the pipeline decades away.
We already build stuff for defence here. Austal builds ships and we build the Bushmaster vehicles here. Probably more things that I’m unaware of.
I think the fact that all those things once upon a time were made here and no longer are proves that while a small handful might (but probably won't when the time comes to actually hand over the cash), the vast majority won't and only want the cheapest price possible.
Being Australian made is not a primary purchase driver. It's a secondary purchase driver that helps us rationalise the purchase choice.
Every other primary purchase driver needs to be fulfilled first; price, quality, warranty, functionality.
I have bought a aussie made fridge/ AC and washing machine. I didn't pay more. They not made here anymore so my next brand would be Miele or Bosh.
I was heavily involved in the appliance industry in the 60s and 80s.
I've just done a quick list of the different brands that were available and made in OZ. Some are older brands like STC and Hallstrom.
There were at least 17 brands of refrigerators, 5 brands of freezers, 12 brands of washing machines and 6 brands of clothes dryers.
The rot began with the import of European brands as Ingis from Italy, Super Sir from Spain, Zanussi from Italy and Gorenge from Yugoslavia. There was also a brand from Czechoslovakia, I can't recall the name;
Australian assembled with imported parts… same thing with added costs. And when it comes to warranty, every single shop will beat around the bush with the technician checking it… followed by blaming it was caused by a user fault.
I bought a haier because the French doors on the Westinghouse made in australia didn’t line up. There was a 1cm step between the doors, looked shockingly poorly made and assembled. We couldn’t get car making right, what hope for appliances?
I bought a haier because the French doors on the Westinghouse made in australia didn’t line up
That must have been a while ago as Westinghouse in Australia ceased production in 2016.
It was 2013.
depends on quality and price, if it's good quality and not kmart junk, and the price is still 'fair' for what you are getting, then I would certainly consider it.
No, because 99% of the time it will be "Assembled in Australia from imported products" so they are still buying everything from somewhere else, and just put it together here… A lot of the time, it comes almost fully assembled and just needs a few parts screwed on for "Australian market needs".
I remember an Australian made flat screen tv was like this. They literally imported a panel from Japan and a different stand from China.
They then made the tv by putting the stand in the box from Japan.
They didn't even attach the stand that was for the home user to assemble.
They didn't even take the panels out of the box they just opened them up put the Australian specific stand/tv remote/book in the top of the box.
Box had all the Australian retail marketing on it when it arrived from Japan.
I have no idea why they didn't just get the panels and stands put in the same box in Japan, guessing they where just doing to it here for marketing or some sort of r&d grants.
Hell no. Value for money is better than some out of place devotion to Australian manufacturing.
I only have one example, only a couple of years ago my mum had to throw away her Australian made Vax vacuum cleaner.
It outlasted the cloth bag .
The service number had 7 digits.
It was so good for washing carpet too.
"Australian" Submarines v2…
(Third times the charm?)
Miss the Ford Falcon and bigly
Parents have a BF MkII and it was clearly a Friday arvo special. some bits of rust in the boot and dodgy panel fitment. Great car though.
Unfortunately our minimum wage is too high and labour laws too strong. So either way I'd be getting an inferior quality appliance to something that's pumped out of CH/SK/JP. And I'd get ripped off every step of the way: first, buying an inflated cost product due to expensive labour inputs, secondly by the government having to bail out the company with taxpayer $ every time its no longer competitive, thirdly when I have to buy the better quality imported product (because the aussie made one carks it) i'm hit some tariff imposed to protect the local industry that no longer exists
Surely today's production lines would be almost fully automated though.
The car industry died mostly due to the exchange rate.
We reached parity with the USA and were at almost 1.10 when the car industry gave up. Imported cars basically discounted by about 40% thanks to the exchange rate.
They needed the rate to be under 1 dollar to stay in business but every economist and banker was predicting that parity was the new normal.
I think it was the ANZ CFO at the time who said parity was the new normal and the Americans believed him and pulled out.
Was an actual shame because Australia made absolutely rubbish cars, and almost as soon as the quality improved the exchange rate killed the market. The last generation of Holden's and Ford's where both good. 90s models Australian cars where absolutely rubbish quality wise compared to Japanese cars as an example. Australian built cars from the 90s where rusting before the 90s ended. Espically if you lived anywhere coastal.
Particularly the last lot Holden's they made where great and I'm a ford fan. I've owned Falcons from the 80s,90s,2000s.
'Australian made' would need to be cheaper.
Who would seriously select from the culture of "she'll be right" and with no identifiable history of craftmanship or innovation?
The Chinese love buying beef and wine from us, we could probably fool them with Aussie made things.
We sell them the dregs of our food and beverage industry because we are known for those things and they don’t know any better. (Their beef, wine and grains are absolute garbage. Their fruits are amazing though)
But imagine trying to sell electronics to China. Thats like trying to sell ice to an eskimo 😂
We sold sand to Saudi Arabia stranger things have happened!
australia makes holdens and they are the absolute worst quality cars
japanese all the way
australia
makesmade holdens
FTFY.Labour and material costs were the downfall of Aussie manufacturing.
Yeah they pesky workers. Always wanting fair wages. How dare they. No wonder the companies that had been syphoning profits overseas for decades jumped ship.
Depending on who you ask, they were either terrible or amazing. Taxis weren't Falcons for so long for nothing.
LPG Gas is the reason they where taxis. Gas was stupidly cheap and the Falcons running costs where low thanks to cheap gas and easy servicing. As soon as gas prices went up the industry moved to Toyota.
You could put a bunch of miles on a ford taxi before they rusted.
Ford also sold taxi specific models with cheapest wheels and even different diffs at a point in time.
Countries do not make good quality products or poor quality products, companies do. We confuse the two because some companies are closely associated with countries, and it rubs off on their country of origin. Cars built in Australia by an American company were the same quality as cars built in America by the same company. Cars built in Australia by a Japanese company were the same quality as cars built in Japan by the same company. Cars built in Australia by a British company were the same complete rubbish quality as cars built in Britain by the same company. Every country where local companies have started building cars have been rubbish initially, until those companies looked at how foreign companies were doing it better. Even Japan. The Japanese, and, yes this is hard to believe, learned how to build cars well from an American by the name of Demming.
Manufacturing quality is not a country thing. It is a company thing.
The post Keating generations have been convinced by the clowns who destroyed manufacturing in this country that Australia and Australians can't build things, we are incapable of it, and shouldn't bother trying. We should just dig stuff up or grow it and sell it off cheap by the boatload to those who can. We did build things. Right up until the huge currency fluctuations that Keatings policies caused destroyed the economic viability of the companies doing it. And what we built was the same quality as what the companies doing it here achieved overseas. Everyone's looked at the example the Japanese set and learned to do it better since then.
Anyone who thinks that the Germans build things the best should look at the reports companies like JD Powers publish on rates of defects on new cars.
https://www.engineering.com/story/quality-problems-rise-for-…The consumer is also to blame when it comes to reduction in quality.
Most consumers are uninformed, and just buy the cheapest crap they think will do the job (or are swayed by marketing BS). As such they are rewarding bad build quality. The companies that are building good quality stuff (which costs more) then miss out on sales, and are driven out of business.Regarding the JD Powers report that you linked to, I had a quick skim through it, but it is rather basic and doesn't cover much (I am assuming there may be a more in-depth report out there). By only covering issues per car (quantity), it doesn't take into consideration the magnitude of the issues. A catastrophic issue (engine failure) should be weighed more heavily than a minor issue (cup holders not working).
By only covering issues per car (quantity), it doesn't take into consideration the magnitude of the issues.
Yes, right, of course. When the evidence doesn't agree with what I believe, the evidence must be somehow wrong. Right? The Germans are meticulous about building the engines right, but they don't bother building the cupholders right.
Also the Germans put a lot of technology into their cars. So comparing a car that has a lot more components with one that is very basic is not an accurate comparison. The more components there are, the greater the chance of something actually going wrong.
Things are complicated, so trying to use a basic measuring stick to quantify the issue leads to incorrect conclusions in most cases.@Malik Nasser: And that is exactly the problem. Both with the Germans and Tesla. They put a lot of technology in their cars. They put more in than they can get right. But biting off more than you can chew is not an excuse for delivering a product to the customer that doesn't work properly, that the customer has to bring back and get fixed.
People who claim German cars are the bees' knees usually sell them before they hit 3 years old and start to fail.
yes