Four Car Accident - Not at Fault without Insurance. Need Advice

LJagnan on 14/10/2023 - 12:45
Last edited 15/10/2023 - 09:38 by 1 other user

Hey, need advice here.

We were at Philip Island and a Jeep SUV hit my car rear. I bumped into the car at front and that car hit another, total 4 cars involved. (No injuries). Jeep SUV driver and all other passengers were drunk and left the car at spot and flew the scene. All were teenagers aged 19 and 21.

Police arrived, got all our details. Police gave me a ring later that night told me they found the boys and driver was drunk.
I managed to get their details also found out their car is not insured.

The problem is I am not insured either. I have a quote of $10k from smash repair to fix my car another $1k for towing car. I was driving Nissan X Trail. I have police report and clearly says I'm not at fault also says the boys who hit my car at fault.

I want some advice who to reach for legal process and any other advice will be great.

Automotive Car Car Insurance Insurance Nissan

Comments

      • kaleidoscope on 16/10/2023 - 09:28
        +3

        down to thinking they are good enough driver and will never need it

        Some people are just so ignorant and cheap for all the wrong reasonsā€¦

        A colleague of mine was using a shitbox car that theyā€™d only use to commute to and from station. Their reasons for not having insurance was 1) car is so bad literally falling apart and not road worthy, so no one would provide insurance. 2) only using for short travel (5km or so each day) šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

        The fellow was on a 6 figure package at the time so moneyā€™s clearly not an issue for this sort of things.

      • nobro25 on 16/10/2023 - 21:25
        +1

        Ahhh… what kinda of insurance is a few hundred? If it is I'll jump on it. You're looking anywhere from $1500 to $3,000 on average plus.

        • imurgod on 17/10/2023 - 08:40
          +2

          Third Party Property Damage is only a few hundred

    • RTX9090Ti on 15/10/2023 - 07:10
      -1

      Just a typical from a friend advice maybe, why waste $1k each year for comprehensive, in 10 years that's $10k wasted, but then OP probably got the accident in 1st year lol.

      • pegaxs on 15/10/2023 - 08:43
        +14

        Or in the 10th year and cause $48,000 worth of damage.

        • kaleidoscope on 16/10/2023 - 09:19
          +6

          Or hit a Lamborghini šŸ˜

      • Kyorisu on 16/10/2023 - 10:28
        +2

        Or someone rams you. Your insurer does the legwork. Save a boat load of time.

  • Ghost47 on 14/10/2023 - 15:33
    +2

    Sometimes in life you learn things the hard way and sadly for you this is one of those times.

    If you can go to court and pay less than the repair costs go ahead if you want, otherwise you need to bite the bullet pay for the repairs. And get insurance, there are too many idiots on the road to risk going without.

  • brendanm on 14/10/2023 - 17:03
    +12

    Drawn out legal action against the driver. Eventually you will get a judgement against them and get paid $5 a week with no interest until the debt is paid. Congratulations.

    • Ridiculous Panda on 16/10/2023 - 09:13
      +5

      That is like free Netflix for life!!! What a bargain..!!!!!!

      • Smol Cat on 16/10/2023 - 13:07

        Basically free money!!

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/10/2023 - 17:43
    +6

    sends letter of demand

    Driver: nah I didnā€™t get

    Oh..

  • trashcan on 14/10/2023 - 18:17
    +6

    I am genuinely inquisitive and want to understand how this plays out legally.

    • Is the driver of Vehicle 2 responsible for the damage to Vehicle 1, the driver of Vehicle 3 responsible for the damage to Vehicle 2, the driver of Vehicle 4 responsible for the damage to Vehicle 3 with the driver of Vehicle 2 passing on his laiblity to the driver of Vehicle 3 and so on

    OR

    • Is the driver of Vehicle 4 directly liable for all the 3 Vehicle in front.

    Also what would have happened if the Vehicle 4 had not been identified. Would the liablity then fall on the driver of Vehicle 3?

    • boomramada on 14/10/2023 - 23:13

      Issue here, Is those teenagers got money to pay for the damages.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 15/10/2023 - 09:08

        Hahaha

      • dbmitch on 16/10/2023 - 21:50

        Declare Bankruptcy at 19, gets it off the credit score at 29 when they actually need any home loans, Winning.

    • patrick321 on 15/10/2023 - 23:46
      -3

      Is the driver of Vehicle 2 responsible for the damage to Vehicle 1, the driver of Vehicle 3 responsible for the damage to Vehicle 2, the driver of Vehicle 4 responsible for the damage to Vehicle 3 with the driver of Vehicle 2 passing on his laiblity to the driver of Vehicle 3 and so on

      This used to be the way it was done because putting all damages onto the last driver was not working and also you are supposed to leave a certain distance between you and the driver in front, so if you hit the driver in front it is your fault regardless if you were pushed.
      Not sure if it is still this way it is as there are crazy people being put in charge of things now, people who should not be making decisions about road rules, eg- indicating to the left when going straight on a roundabout and other crazier things.

      • SpainKing on 15/10/2023 - 23:51
        +1

        You're meant to indicate left when you're exiting a roundabout. Are you saying they have the left blinker on before they enter the roundabout?

        • patrick321 on 16/10/2023 - 09:56
          -6

          Of course you are meant to indicate when exiting. The newer rules state if going straight you must indicate left when APPROACHING the roundabout, although these rules have been in for years now. This is just one of the rubbish that was brought in. I have a friend who is a driving instructor 30 years experience and he is shocked at what is being asked to teach today. Another is when turning left into a street you must look over your shoulder and check if there is a pedestrian BEHIND you. In case the car changes direction on its own??

          • Euphemistic on 16/10/2023 - 11:00
            +1

            @patrick321:

            The newer rules state if going straight you must indicate left when APPROACHING the roundabout

            Got a reference for that? I call BS.

          • Ridiculous Panda on 16/10/2023 - 16:55
            +1

            @patrick321: Someone clearly has been lying to you. Double check the shit you hear at the bbq party before spreading it. You obviously have access to the internet so not too hard!

    • cannedhams on 17/10/2023 - 16:41
      +4

      This is whats called in the business a "concertina collision". Often needs a forensic engineer to unpick it. Courts will basically adopt a common sense approach per march v stradmere, etc etc…

      People assume that cars are like billiard balls and one car hits one and the collision then just continues on down the line. Au contraire. Cars by design crumple and are inefficient at transferring momentum from one body to another. This is particularly true in the modern age of unibody cars without a separate chassis.

      This means that while everyone will point the finger at the last driver to participate in the collision, its usually unlikely that they will independently precipitate any more than two collisions unless they were really barrelling along. Quite often, cars in the middle have collided of their own initiative. This is pretty obvious when the last driver has only minor front end damage but the car in the middle has extensive front end but only limited rear damage.

      One thing to bear in mind that if a car has already hit the concertina and received front end damage sufficient to write it off, a subsequent driver who then collides with the rear has not caused any great amount of damage in commercial terms. They have probably only reduced the salvage value.

      If everyone is insured, the insurance companies will usually just divvy it up on the back of a beer coaster without putting any great thought into it. They are pretty friendly with each other that way.

  • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 08:25
    +4

    Very lucky no injuries

    I would of expected some whiplash

    Assuming everyone was stationary but the Jeep for the pile up. Lots of people stop to close to the car in front. If you see the tyres in front that should be atleast 2m for most cars. So if we're true, car 3 and 2 would of been dragged 2m to pile up and that's a lot of darg

    Crazy unrelated comment over

  • tabitha731 on 15/10/2023 - 09:13

    If u cant afford insurance.. u cant afford to drive!

    • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 09:51
      +1

      This is an incorrect statement but a practical one

  • Myone888 on 15/10/2023 - 09:15

    In the first place one must have car insurance even though 3rd party cover!

    • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 09:52
      -1

      Third party cover doesn't cover yourself and doesn't apply in this situation

      • Kegsta on 15/10/2023 - 16:02
        +3

        Most third party policies include $5000 cover from damage done to your car by an uninsured driver.

        • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 16:06

          Maybe

          But is it only if you get the other person's details?

          • Kegsta on 15/10/2023 - 16:22
            +2

            @Poor Ass: "I managed to get their details also found out their car is not insured."

            From op

            Third party from a reputable insurer is an amazingly good value product for less than 200 bucks a year. Particularly if your car is worth less than 10 grand.

            • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 19:46

              @Kegsta: I found there's not much difference in premium for third party prop vs comprehensive for old bombs

            • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 19:48

              @Kegsta: Ya luck this time but not all the time you can get other person's details

            • jrjr on 16/10/2023 - 09:59

              @Kegsta: Where are you getting third party for less than 200 bucks??

              • Kegsta on 16/10/2023 - 10:55

                @jrjr: Anywhere?
                Mine has been $150 with RACT for the last 5 years on my old Mazda 3.

                • jrjr on 16/10/2023 - 19:52

                  @Kegsta: Wow RACT is less than half the price of RACV for my car, I could get comprehensive for the same price.
                  if only I lived in Tassieā€¦

        • 0lllllll0 on 17/10/2023 - 17:48

          Bingle does not provide any cover.

          We were hit by an uninsured driver and since our cars value is only around 5k, we are just writing off the vehicle.

          Driver just did what Jimothy said above.

    • capslock janitor on 15/10/2023 - 10:10

      third party property damage cover

      • Poor Ass on 15/10/2023 - 16:06

        Or third party property + fire and theft option

  • Ciderfizz44 on 15/10/2023 - 09:32

    Play stupid games…

  • solidussnake on 15/10/2023 - 10:06
    -5

    Claim on your insurance…. oh wait you don't have any, thanks for the Sunday morning laugh !!

  • capslock janitor on 15/10/2023 - 10:11

    what made u think you can get away with this jagnan?

  • michaelTito on 15/10/2023 - 10:13
    -1

    why did you not have insurance?

  • 2esc on 15/10/2023 - 10:34
    -1

    Must have been a big hit? If all vehicles had the correct amount of space left in front and they still hit each other. Surprised no Injuries.

    Years ago in accidents like this each car owner use to be responsible for the damage immediately front of them. So being drunk and the high impact speed makes the jeep driver responsible for all vehicles.

    • AlanJ on 15/10/2023 - 11:32
      +7

      "So being drunk and the high impact speed makes the jeep driver responsible for all vehicles." Absolutely… no doubt about that. But he has no insurance, and therefore he is PERSONALLY responsible. The police will punish him for being drunk and breaking all sorts of laws, but they are not just going to "make everyone whole again" by paying out yours and everyone else's repair bills. Your only option here, I would think, is to sue the driver. With all the information you have provided, I son't think there's much doubt you'd win the case, but it would cost you a lot of money to find out, and, at the end of saga, all the court will do is direct him to pay. What are the chances, do you think, of him having the money to even cover your towing costs? If he doesn't have it, you won'f get it, and your expenses will make your current situation look like small change.

    • Jono05 on 16/10/2023 - 21:24

      100 years ago? Definitely not in the last 30 years.

  • tnt_13 on 15/10/2023 - 11:18
    +3

    I can pm you a name if you needing some legal proceeding. They were great in my situation. Cost was way cheaper than I thought

    • Guybrush57 on 15/10/2023 - 12:32
      +3

      Saul Goodman?

      • BillyG687 on 15/10/2023 - 14:56
        -1

        Nah, bikies.

        • ProlapsedHeinous on 15/10/2023 - 18:51

          My preference is Milk Arrowroot M.C… (A.F.F.A)

      • kiriakoz on 15/10/2023 - 23:38
        +4

        Lionel Hutz: Attorney at Law. Only the best for OP.

  • gromit on 15/10/2023 - 13:29
    +4

    obviously you are pretty wealthy given you can afford to self insure, so call up your lawyer and get them to chase them.

  • gutwagon on 15/10/2023 - 14:10
    -1

    The driver of the car that your car was pushed into will be coming after you for their damages, or their insurance company will be. Life isn't fair sometimes, you will have a bill for your damage and one other cars damage probably. You can go after the jeep diver in court and most likely get nothing but legal bills. That's why us silly people have insurance !

    • quick-dry on 15/10/2023 - 15:37
      +1

      ? they'll be also going after the jeep driver at the rear. From my experience in being sandwiched in a collision, it'll all go directly back to the driver at the rear (in my instance I felt for the guy at the back, we were all going through an intersection and the woman in front hit the anchors in the middle of a major intersection because the light changed to orange, the guy behind in a lightly loaded panel van slid in the wet. Technically him at fault but wouldn't have happened if the person in front hadn't done something stupid and unexpected)

    • Kremleen on 16/10/2023 - 11:44
      +1

      Police report will absolve OP from any and all claim made by vehicles in front of him.

  • AMLagonda on 15/10/2023 - 16:10
    +5

    surely you have third party Insurance??

    I mean this has to be a given, no one is THAT STUPID, are they?

    • eciuj on 26/10/2023 - 11:26

      You must be new to OzBargain.

  • Aerith-Waifu on 15/10/2023 - 16:11
    +9

    I honestly can't believe after posts and posts and posts people still gamble on not having insurance….wow

    • smartazz104 on 15/10/2023 - 16:49
      +1

      Because they never think it will happen to them… until it does.

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 15/10/2023 - 18:52
      +3

      Traffic Accidents are the only way Ozbargain recruits new forum regulars.

  • RedDevil860 on 15/10/2023 - 16:32

    You dont have insurance which means they will go to court and settle for weekly payments. You are pretty much screwed.

  • Oz em on 15/10/2023 - 16:50

    If you have any injuries get them checked asap and claim through your registration insurance

  • Oz em on 15/10/2023 - 16:51
    +5

    I was the first car hit by 2 others recently and it all went to the last car. He had insurance in this case but it was just treated as though he had hit the middle car and my car too.

    • cunningdrew on 16/10/2023 - 11:59
      +2

      Page 2 and finally something interesting to read. Thanks.

  • Marcsie on 15/10/2023 - 19:36
    -1

    lol lol lol

  • wisewood21 on 15/10/2023 - 20:21
    +36

    Hi Jagnan, I am going through something very similar right now. In my case, the at-fault driver has insurance, but nonetheless decided not to pay. This is what I have done so far:
    1. Sent the at-fault driver a Letter of Demand explaining the accident, supporting evidence of the accident, who is liable, amount you are claiming, by when you want the money by and what you will do if he/she do not respond on time.
    2. Because she chose not to pay up, I went to arrange for a free mediation session via the Community Justice Centre (CJC) NSW.
    3. Because she chose not to attend mediation, I filed a Statement of Claim at the Local Court - Small Claims Division. The CJC sent me a letter stating the other person did not want to attend which you can use in court in your favor. In court, you should try to demonstrate you have made serious attempts to settle this matter outside of the court.
    4. Because she did not respond to the Statement of Claim by submitting a Defence, I filed for a Default Judgment.
    5. After getting the Default Judgment, I started enforcing the judgment by sending her an Examination Notice.
    6. Because she did not respond to the Examination Notice within 28 days, I filed an Examination Order.

    It sounds like you may not be in NSW, but VIC laws should be quite similar.

    If you are serious about getting your money back, two things you must have are patience and persistence. Don't expect to see the first dollar to hit your account until you have chased for six months. You may want to consider getting a debt collector to do this for you, but they will obviously want a cut. At least in NSW, you cannot legally claim for personal time/effort spent on pursuing this claim, but you can claim for professional legal services up to a certain limit.

    You should do your own research or seek your own legal advise as I am wrong here.

    Good luck!

    • RedDevil860 on 16/10/2023 - 08:21

      I am assuming you also don't have insurance.

      • wisewood21 on 16/10/2023 - 09:03
        +3

        True, only had Third Party at the time as I usually only drive over the weekends, but since this accident, I got Comprehensive.

        • kollateral on 16/10/2023 - 11:34
          +2

          Having Third Party Insurance IS insurance. But definitely a good move now having comprehensive so your insurance will do most of the leg work for you no matter who is at fault. Kudos for actually giving real experience/advice.

          • Euphemistic on 16/10/2023 - 11:46
            +3

            @kollateral: Having third party might be insurance, but it doesnā€™t cover you if someone else causes damage to your stuff. So in essence itā€™s half insurance.

          • wisewood21 on 17/10/2023 - 10:48
            +1

            @kollateral: Yep, I got comprehensive insurance precisely for this reason. Having said that though, about 4-5 years ago, I had a very similar accident, the other driver was at-fault and I only had 3rd Party insurance back then as well, the at-fault driver and her insurance company processed the claim in about 2 weeks.

        • ihfree on 16/10/2023 - 20:53
          +1

          I considered third party only at one point but decided against it for exactly the situation you described.

    • RolandWaites on 16/10/2023 - 13:13

      Keep us up to date on how you go with this. Create a forum thread if/when you get a result.

      • Charmoffensive on 16/10/2023 - 13:31
        +1

        I'm excited for the next step in the saga where this idiot still ignores their court date and…

        If you do not go to a means inquiry hearing, you could end up being arrested and taken to the court. You may be found in contempt of court for not attending, and be fined or imprisoned, if you do not have a good reason for not going to the hearing.

        • wisewood21 on 17/10/2023 - 10:56
          +1

          I sure hope I don't need to go through court hearings, but I can't agree more that she is a complete idiot for ignoring court judgments.

      • wisewood21 on 17/10/2023 - 10:49
        +2

        Sure happy to share this experience, hopefully it will help others.

        • wisewood21 on 24/12/2023 - 19:36
          +1

          My painful battle for justice has finally ended. At the end, her lawyer called me around 3pm on the day before the court hearing to settle. I accepted an amount slightly below the cost to repair my car and court fees and did not attend court. Just reflecting on this epic journey and sharing I have observed:
          The lawyer used lots of scare tactics. She made statements such as "we will vigorous defend…", but at end avoided going to court. She tried to appear super confident about winning, but nah… She made, in my opinion, fault statements in the court documents, which would have no effect if the court hearing did not proceed. She tried to make it sound like in the court documents I was misappropriating the court process when it was her/defendant.

    • highwind on 17/10/2023 - 12:06
      +1

      Interesting that she had insurance, but refused to use it… Now she's risking a huge fine and potential jail time… Was she doing something illegal to cause the accident (speeding, drunk driving, etc)?

      • wisewood21 on 19/10/2023 - 17:24

        Hi highwind, I am pretty sure she was not doing anything illegal. She was in a hurry though. Maybe she doesn't want her premium to go up or her insurance don't want to pay?

  • Archer12 on 15/10/2023 - 22:10
    +2

    I actually think these are becoming troll posts now, an OP puts up these kind of stories then disappears

    • Protractor on 16/10/2023 - 09:58
      -1

      Ja think?
      /s

    • digitalbath on 16/10/2023 - 17:20
      +1

      Nah. I donā€™t think these people are trolls, just idiots. More and more people are idiots these days.

  • spal on 16/10/2023 - 07:38

    If someone hits from the rear and you hit the car in front, it could be seen as OPs fault, they failed to keep safe distance.

    • Kremleen on 16/10/2023 - 11:50
      +2

      Not when the car is stationary. You can have a car hits your car at such force and speed that despite of a safe distance, your car would be pushed against the car in front, e.g., a prime mover hitting a stationary hatchback at 100km/h

      • digitalbath on 16/10/2023 - 17:21
        +1

        If that was the case the OP wouldnā€™t have just ā€œbumpedā€ into the car in front. Sure the rear car is at fault, but Iā€™d bet every last cent I have that OP didnā€™t leave a safe enough space beaten them and the car in front.

      • samyall on 17/10/2023 - 10:12

        When I was learning to drive I was told that you are always at fault if you hit a car from behind. Is that just a boogyman we tell 17 year olds?

  • taoz on 16/10/2023 - 08:18
    +1

    Your best hope is of there parents have money and can resolve it.
    Otherwise you will get some small monthly/weekly amount for many many years once you take them yo court

  • TightAl on 16/10/2023 - 11:56

    Out of curiosity, why don't you have insurance?

    • josepet on 16/10/2023 - 12:12
      +1

      It makes me feel like a big man.

  • MrMoo on 16/10/2023 - 13:25
    +1

    So you drove to Philip Island with your own personal car? If it was a rental then they should have insurance + a huge excess.

    If it's your own car and you don't have insurance then unfortunately that is on you. You are going to have to google and find a good lawyer and try to claw the money from the at fault party while also buying time from all the clawing the other parties are going to do on you. It'll be glorious.

  • pipe on 16/10/2023 - 16:28
    +1

    There is no requirement to buy more than ctp insurance. Do your own risk assessment and decide what's right for you.

    Third party insurance does not even help OP here because he was not at fault in the police report.

  • Empharand on 16/10/2023 - 17:25

    Not at Fault without Insurance

    GG.
    If you can't afford atleast Third-Party Insurance then you can't afford to drive, can't make it any simpler then that..

    Better luck next time (Hopefully with insurance).

  • WhatWouldBiggieDo on 16/10/2023 - 20:05
    +5

    This is the perfect example of why you need car insurance, not because you're not at fault, but because of the way insurers treat liability and recovery of costs.

    Whilst at uni, I used to work in the settlements and recoveries department of a major insurer, so this is coming from first-hand experience.

    Whilst the place may say you're not at fault, it's irrelevant to the insurer. In a multi-vehicle nose-to-tail such as this, the insurance company of each insured driver will attempt to recover costs from the vehicle immediately behind it (i.e. the vehicle that caused damaged to their insured. So car one (i.e. the car the front) insurance company will send a claim to the car 2, as this is the car that hit them, and the one they know they are able to recover for. Car 2's insurer will send a claim to the insurer of car 3 etc. In many cases, the insurer doesnt even bother attempting to recover from the car at the rear due to how hard it is to prove that they were solely responsible for the damage.

    You are up the creek without a paddle, and I can't say I feel sorry for you. Your car is worth in excess of $10k ,and you were dumb enough to not insure it, whilst everyone else who does the right thing pays inflated insurance policies that are partyl due to how many uninsured motorists there are. You deserve everything you get.

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