Landlord Refuses to Pay Plumber Bill and Property Manager Is Asking Me to Pay It

TaurusHead on 04/12/2023 - 20:39
Last edited 05/12/2023 - 10:07 by 2 other users

So, last week I got the water coming out of all the drains from my apartment and started flowing into my bedrooms, I raised it up with the property manager and she eventually sent a plumber to have a look, this guy spent around 20 odd mins and next day the manager sent me an invoice of $350 saying the owner refused to pay it and now wants me to pay instead saying I should have maintained the drainage and my only argument is I should have been informed earlier if that's for me to pay.

What do you guys suggest here as myself and the owner are still going back and forth with these arguments?

Edit: Since I was asked for more info: The plumber suggested that the blockage was due to the hair and residue over the period of time and he just plunged it to get it out, it wasn't toilet though, and it seems like the blockage was in my apartment only.

And I've also suggested to meet the half way but he is being a bit adamant about it.

Poll Options

  • 101
    I'm supposed to pay?
  • 484
    The owner is liable to pay?
Home & Garden

Comments

                      • try2bhelpful on 06/12/2023 - 08:58

                        @SlickMick: It depends on how well the plumbing was installed in the first place. Plumbing should be able to deal with hair going down the drain and being washed away. The tenant can’t be expected to take the drain cover off in the shower, and try to remove what is there, unless the drain cover is removable. You seriously can’t expect people to not shed hair in the shower?

                        As I said above, a lot of this could be dealt with by the landlord just providing a list of basic instructions and tools. Use it as a welcome gift and a hint.

                        • SlickMick on 06/12/2023 - 13:55

                          @try2bhelpful: I have a family member that sheds a lot of hair. The plumber showed the evidence, and hair now goes in the bin where it belongs instead of watching it go down the drain. It's so much easier, cheaper and less gross to do the right thing in the first place rather than take the easy way out until you have a problem.

                          Sure, there might be fancy plumbing solutions to deal with hair, I don't know. Any home I've lived in wouldn't deal with it.(I don't know whether you've seen the mess that is removed from a clogged drain, but I doubt you would try to convince yourself that it belonged there.) Tenant needs to live somewhere with such a solution, but until then, needs to not allow hair down the drain, or take responsibility for the consequences.

                          • supersabroso on 07/12/2023 - 19:40
                            +1

                            @SlickMick: Yeah the modern drains are very good at trapping hair so that it's as easy as taking off the ceramic square grabbing the trapped hair and putting it back on to resume the full flow. It keeps it out of the drain. The old drains not so much, however I've never had a blocked drain so this is a tough one. It should be left up the the plumber's discretion as to if this is a special blockage due to the tenant or if it's common across all the old drain designs.

                        • shutuptakemymoney101 on 06/12/2023 - 18:29

                          @try2bhelpful: If an owner left a tenant a list of basic instructions and tools there would be a new OzBargain thread called "Overreaching owner left me instructions and tools to do HIS maintenance jobs"

                          You're never going to stop a tenant from thinking the worst about a Landlord even when he/she has been more than generous.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 06:42
                    +1

                    @ozbs25:

                    point is just because you are a tenant doesn't mean you absolve yourself from all maintenance.

                    Literally NOBODY is saying this.

                • SlickMick on 06/12/2023 - 08:48

                  @try2bhelpful: I've seen an oven need to be thrown out because it was destroyed by lack of cleaning. No one was ever going to consume food prepared in that thing.

                  • try2bhelpful on 06/12/2023 - 08:51
                    +1

                    @SlickMick: If the oven was destroyed by lack of cleaning it was probably hard to clean fully in the first place. However, I suspect, it wasn’t actually destroyed it was just that the owner thought it was easier to replace the oven than try to clean it themselves.

                    • SlickMick on 06/12/2023 - 13:57
                      +1

                      @try2bhelpful: Exactly. Some people are disgusting and don't look after things. I'm not sure why we've moved on to ovens, letting hair down the drain is a sufficient example.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 12:32

                    @SlickMick: Oh wow, a single anecdote. That simply changes EVERYTHING.

                    • SlickMick on 06/12/2023 - 13:58

                      @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: lol I've made a lot of replies here, I have no idea which you're referring to. I don't know what I'm supposed to have changed??

    • SlickMick on 05/12/2023 - 09:51

      Do you put hair down the drain?

      Some people shed a lot of hair, and they need to ensure it doesn't go down the drain because it causes problems.

    • Drakesy on 07/12/2023 - 18:47

      Umm, it actually isn't

      Root incursion and failed pipes, yes. Not hair and crap as is the tenant's case.

  • Dejy on 04/12/2023 - 23:06
    +7

    Trades these days are very expensive (post COVID), this bill seems a bit high but not too far out of the ordinary.

    The rental provider must organise and pay for all repairs if they are not the renter's fault but it seems the plumber placed the blame on you for lack of maintenance.

    It seems odd that you had water coming out of all drains though, usually you block one u-bend and that drain is blocked due to build up of residue and just needs a flush, plunger or
    something like drano (lack of maintenance issue). Having all drains blocked up usually means a blockage further down that shouldn't be tenant maintenance related and either poor plumbing design or a fault.

  • antmcbane on 04/12/2023 - 23:48
    +7

    Politely decline to pay. Paying a cent for this will open you to liability for any damage caused by the water - carpets, timber etc.
    State that your understanding is that maintenance of the property is the responsibility of the lessor, and that if that is incorrect, please detail why - otherwise as far as you're concerned the matter is resolved as they fulfilled their duty to maintain the property and keep key services available to the tenant.

    Those types of common drain blockages are weird. We had one occur about a year after our bathroom reno - it ended up being about a meter upstream of the utility's sewerage inspection point, over 10m from the nearest drain. Plumber reckoned the gunk had slowly balled and accumulated up over months. The only shame was that it wouldn't have cost us anything if it was on the utility's side.

  • Some Human on 05/12/2023 - 00:29
    +1

    Fishing the hair out of the shower drain is oddly satisfying. Do you not do it?

  • JIMB0 on 05/12/2023 - 06:45
    -3

    Sounds like a simple diy job. Why couldn't the man of the house fix it?

  • Rako on 05/12/2023 - 07:36
    +1

    Ncat plumbing is owners or strata responsibility

  • coffeeinmyveins on 05/12/2023 - 08:53
    +4

    100% owner is responsible for this. Unless you can be shown to be negligent (eg putting a carpet over the drain or taping it) then this is just bad luck for them. It would be like if a water pipe burst, are you meant to keep aware of the condition of the pipes? no.

    What do you guys suggest here as myself and the owner are still going back and forth with these arguments?

    State that you are under no legal obligation as a tenant to pay for this and will take it to NCAT if they pursue it further.

    Since it was water damage, if you suggest taht you pay any of this then you're opening yourself up for liabilities with any of the OTHER damage that may result, which you don't want.

    So many owners think they can just get the tenants to pay for everything. This is the cost of ownership.

    • SlickMick on 05/12/2023 - 09:56
      -1

      Why don't you use the actual example.

      100% tenant is responsible for this. Because you can be shown to be negligent (eg clogging drain with hair)

      • Jolakot on 06/12/2023 - 09:38
        +2

        It's not enough to just be shown to be negligent, unless the house was brand new then this could have been a problem accumulating over decades

        If the landlord did a plumbing inspection before move-in and everything was clear, then OP might be up for the bill. Otherwise it could just have easily been the last tenant and this was just the hair that broke the camels' back

  • Benno007 on 05/12/2023 - 09:23
    +6

    I had a tenant want to call a plumber for a slow draining bathroom sink. One of those with the screw-out pop up waste cover things. The tenant didn’t know they could unscrew it, when we went to look it was filled with their wife’s long black hair. Showed them how to unscrew the metal cover and pull it out and saved us both the hassle of a plumber. I dunno how people don’t know to do this? I Always cleaned it between tenants to know if someone was clogging it

    So I can understand why the landlord wouldn’t want to pay for it if it was something you did, but if it’s unclear whether it was you or a previous tenant, then owner should pay or pay majority of it

    • TaurusHead on 05/12/2023 - 09:41
      -2

      That's exactly my argument is, first of all owner has never been in touch in all these years, it's always the agent I'm talking to and going back and forth, the owner like you who are reachable can in fact be beneficial for both of us, as I wouldn't know whether it was just hair clogged or something major behind the scene, so a little guidance always helps.

      • SlickMick on 05/12/2023 - 09:57

        If it was previous owner, it would have happened 3 years ago.

      • shutuptakemymoney101 on 06/12/2023 - 18:37
        +1

        Owner might be from overseas and/or doesn't speak English, exactly like the rented property behind one of my rentals - found this out when I was trying to get a shared boundary fence repaired.

        The owner also pays a Property Manager a fee to be his/her representative so he/she doesn't have to ever get in touch with tenants.

  • Froogle on 05/12/2023 - 09:44
    +11

    IMHO, whoever engaged the plumber is responsible for the invoice payment.

    • sydney_kings on 05/12/2023 - 11:50

      100% agree - but the question is if the tenant is liable for reimbursement of costs

      There are duty of care provisions, which I would say this falls under. However, as the landlord hasn't inspected and directly called the plumber without confirming the cause, I would say this should be borne by the landlord.

      Had the landlord asked if the drain hair/clog has been checked, then the tenant should be reimbursing the landlord.

      • Danstar on 05/12/2023 - 12:14
        +2

        What if this tenant calls an electrician cos they don't know how to turn on a light?

        This was an issue caused by the tenant, where tenant probably could've googled some remedies before asking a plumber to come out.

        • TaurusHead on 05/12/2023 - 12:46
          -3

          Is it you landlord?

          • Danstar on 05/12/2023 - 12:55

            @TaurusHead: No. But from what the issue was from your OP, it seems as though this was a simple fix that you exaggerated to get fixed ASAP and now don't want to pay for it and expect the landlord to pay for it.

            • TaurusHead on 05/12/2023 - 13:20
              -2

              @Danstar: Yeah some of your arguments are based on assumptions like it was exaggerated to get fixed ASAP and don't want to pay etc. I'm willing to pay half as I stated in the description.

              I just raised it to my agent and It was all driven by her afterwards.

              • Danstar on 05/12/2023 - 14:23
                -1

                @TaurusHead: But it wasn't an issue with the property. It was an issue with the tenant.

                If there's an issue that you didn't directly cause or only caused because of an issue you couldn't control, 100% the landlord should pay.

        • Hirolol on 05/12/2023 - 21:01

          Well said mate
          I think op should pay full

        • daveozsydney on 06/12/2023 - 21:46

          I once had a tenant call an electrician to change a lightbulb and claim it. Was about $150 several years ago. I checked and they were eligible to do that by law so I had to pay it. Would’ve been better if they called me and I could’ve done it but just got on with life and paid it. The cost of doing business I guess.
          I think the owner should pay your bill also and/or challenge the plumber why the bill was so high.

    • JayEmmGee on 06/12/2023 - 08:44
      +2

      Took a lot of comments to get here, but this is the correct answer. The landlord/agent called out the plumber so regardless of the cause of the issue they need to pay for the service. From that point if they feel that the issue was caused by the tenant then there are avenues they can take to recover costs (just like there are avenues the tenant can take if they dispute that they were at fault)

  • Danstar on 05/12/2023 - 10:39
    +1

    The plumber suggested that the blockage was due to the hair and residue over the period of time

    So ended up being an easy fix where a plumber really wasn't needed, so you have to pay for it.

  • rambutann on 05/12/2023 - 12:43

    Either way you'll end up paying for it because in the eyes of the landlord you're a difficult tenant (im not saying you are, but it seems like the landlord will now think you are).

    You're going to end up copping a hefty rental increase at the next review whether you pay it or not so id suggest fighting and dont pay it.

  • ianheidi on 05/12/2023 - 13:12
    +6

    It sounds dodgy to me. The contract is between the property manager who identified selected and appointed the plumber not you. The property manager should pay the plumber. If your liable for the work subject to your tenancy agreement I'm sure the property manager will get back to you seeking your payment advising why you are liable.

  • siresteelhell on 05/12/2023 - 20:13
    +1

    If you pay, you will also be liable for carpets, flooring, wall damage from water….

    • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 18:00

      Why would they be liable for others things if they pay to have the drain unblocked from hair?

      pretty sure carpets/flooring would fall under 'wear and tear'.As for water damage, it really depends on the source of the water. If the roof has a leak, it's on the landlord imo. If there's water damage because the tenants has an inflatable pool in the lounge room which burst, well…

  • ribze1 on 05/12/2023 - 20:44
    +1

    Had a block in my unit's bathroom (shower specifically), called the strata manager and he said depending on the blockage that we'd be liable. Since it was in the bathroom he suggested it was hair, using a combination of tongs and a wire coat hanger it sure was. After that i bought a hair guard for the drain to catch my wife's long hair.

  • kaleidoscope on 05/12/2023 - 21:48
    +5

    Without more context the poll means nothing.
    If the fault was due to equipment failure or burst pipes it’s the landlord’s responsibility. If it’s due to clogged drains because you failed to maintain it or sent down unwanted crap down the drain it’s your responsibility for plumber’s invoice + any other damage to the property such as carpets / drywall etc

    • Jolakot on 06/12/2023 - 09:42

      Even then, if the landlord didn't have a plumbing inspection done before they moved in then it could have been caused by the last tenant too. No way to stick the blame on OP unless there is evidence it was in perfect condition beforehand

      • kaleidoscope on 06/12/2023 - 10:25
        +1

        Agreed. What I was trying to say is OP tells a very generalised story from his side of things, which isn’t enough to come up with a definitive answer / advice. For your question;

        Even if there had been past tenants, and op had been at property past 1-2 years, this would fall under fail to maintain property afaik. If you just moved in and this happens, sure it can be fairly argued it’s previous tenant etc… You get the point.

        • nigel deborah on 06/12/2023 - 11:24

          The owner is required to maintain the property to a certain standard. They are required to engage and pay the plumber.

          If they want to recover costs from the tenant, they can do so through the applicable tribunal. The burden would be on the owner to prove the tenant failed to comply with the conditions in their rental agreement, which as you and others have said will depend on the specific cause of the issue and whether or not that can be proven.

          I'd say if you were the tenant in this situation, it's incredibly unlikely the owner would be able to prove this even if you were at fault. Mainly because you'd basically need evidence that there was no build up at the time the tenant moved in (e.g. brand new building).

          • Danstar on 06/12/2023 - 13:15

            @nigel deborah: The OP has never stated how long they've been in this house

            • ozbs25 on 06/12/2023 - 13:22

              @Danstar: More than 3 years.

              • Danstar on 06/12/2023 - 14:42

                @ozbs25: I thought I did read that somewhere, but wasn't sure if it was on here or somewhere else.

                So that shows even more so that it was most likely the tenants negligence

  • jason101 on 05/12/2023 - 22:03

    I'm usually firmly on the side of the landlord in these type of posts - but if what you have said is the complete story, then I think as a tenant you have the right to expect working drains which can handle water, typical/usual hair loss and residue? into said drains without fear of such typical use causing a blockage which then results in rectification work at your cost. Problem is, if you cause too much of a fuss your lease may not be renewed or you may find a higher than anticipated rental increase - these outcomes are unfair but probable. With frustration and gritted teeth I think you should pay up if you intend to stay on as a tenant past your next renewal.

  • ar7ist on 05/12/2023 - 23:37

    Sorry to hijack the post.

    I had an issue where the bathroom ceiling had mould dots starting to build up. During a termite inspection, the guy was kind enough to point out that there's mould which could be due the fact that an anti mould paint was not used in a bathroom that already has poor ventilation due to its design. I keep the window open and exhaust running all the time.

    I raised it with the property manager and they asked me to just clean it with vinegar and cloth. Is this something that should be looked at by a professional? Can it be bad for my health to clean it myself?

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 07:19
      +2

      Yes and yes

      • ar7ist on 06/12/2023 - 09:00
        +1

        I used vinegar and scrubbed it with a piece of cloth. There's still some spots in the ceiling. I was clear in my communication that this should be looked at by a professional. I'll make sure to keep evidence if they try and do something dodgy when I'm moving out.

        Sucks not to have my own property and having to deal with these kind of people.

        • nigel deborah on 06/12/2023 - 11:29

          Depending on your state there are mechanisms to force the landlord to take action. In Vic that starts with a breach of duty notice and escalates to a VCAT hearing.

          Three problems though which skews it in the landlord's favour:
          - It sours your relationship, tenant is vulnerable to no cause evictions if fixed term lease is coming up
          - If the landlord drags their feet it can take ages for the tribunal to enforce their finding
          - there are no real penalties, worst case for the landlord is they have to pay up what they would have had to anyway, essentially incentivising them to never pay up in the first instance

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 12:33
          -1

          Vinegar will just "bleach" the mould and remove colour. It won't fix the issue.

          • Hangryuman on 06/12/2023 - 12:58

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: disagree - my understanding is vinegar, being acid, may kill the mould but not bleach it

            I use a no-touch method - I spray vinegar on and leave it to dry (the acid does destroy the steel spring/ball in cheap spray bottles tho')

            then next day I use bleach to whiten the dark spots

            for mould on a ceiling you could just dampen a cotton cloth with each in turn and dab it on the spots on the ceiling

            don't apply them together as they can create chlorine gas which can Kill You.

            • ar7ist on 06/12/2023 - 13:06

              @Hangryuman: Well I sprayed vinegar and after an hour scrubbed it with a damp cloth. I then sprayed vinegar again and kept the door/exhaust open. I'm still alive but not sure if I should go to a GP for any medical checks.

              • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 17:54

                @ar7ist: Well, it's vinegar, not mustard gas, so you should be fine. If you don't feel well, couldn't hurt to pay a visit to the doctors, at least you have a record of any issues in case.

  • SpicyStew on 06/12/2023 - 00:01
    +1

    wear and tear = landlord cost unless contracted otherwise

    • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 17:40
      +1

      wear and tear has to be reasonable. Example being carpet or appliances included in the rental being worn from use. Blocked drains because of hair is hardly reasonable wear and tear. Would you expect the landlord to pay to clean the house of dust and spider webs?

      • SpicyStew on 06/12/2023 - 17:58
        -1

        go have a snook elsewhere i don't care about you
        try under your blankets I dont want to see your sad state and mascara running down your face

        • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 18:09
          +1

          Why neg vote me for a valid response? I'm not having a "snook", I'm making a valid point.

  • daft009 on 06/12/2023 - 06:50

    If I was the landlord I would say 50/50 this time. Next time 100% you

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 07:20
      +1

      We're thankful you're not.

      • daft009 on 06/12/2023 - 07:40

        This is basic maintenance. Just like mowing the lawn etc or doing the weeding

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 12:34

          So why isn't it in standard form leases, whereas mowing and weeding generally always are?

          Pretty obvious why.

          • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 17:56

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: You genuinely believe landlords should pay to remove your hair buildup? lol. Do you also believe landlords to pay someone to come over and vaccum the dust/dirt from the carpets, or wipe the dust from the ceiling fans or remove cobwebs?

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2023 - 21:06

              @Widget: Holy Straw Man Batman.

              • Widget on 07/12/2023 - 04:38
                -1

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: No it isn't.

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/12/2023 - 16:47
                  -1

                  @Widget: So my comment that 'I disagree with the tenant being 50% financially responsible' for the invoice in this scenario indicates I 'genuinely believe landlords should pay to remove your hair buildup and also believe landlords to pay someone to come over and vaccum the dust/dirt from the carpets, or wipe the dust from the ceiling fans or remove cobwebs?'

                  What on earth gave you that impression?

                  • Widget on 08/12/2023 - 13:48
                    -1

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: 'I disagree with the tenant being 50% financially responsible' isn't what you said. Daft009 said "If I was the landlord I would say 50/50 this time. Next time 100% you" then you said "We're thankful you're not.", but I'm basing my reply on what you said afterwards…

                    Daft009 says: "This is basic maintenance. Just like mowing the lawn etc or doing the weeding"
                    Zeggie says: "So why isn't it in standard form leases, whereas mowing and weeding generally always are? Pretty obvious why."

                    Cleaning drains is basic maintenance on the tenants parts, not the landlords. Drains are for water, not hair or food waste. Your response gave the impression that because cleaning the drains isn't in a standard form lease, but mowing/weeding is, then it shouldn't be on the tenant to clean the drains, that it should be on the landlord. Hence my reply after that.

    • nigel deborah on 06/12/2023 - 11:31

      Good thing the landlord's thoughts don't supercede their legal obligations which require them to maintain the property.

  • kiwimex on 06/12/2023 - 08:30
    +5

    This is 100% on the landlord to pay, its basic maintenance. If you haven't intentionally put anything down the drains and they block up then its a maintenance issue. Im a plumber and attend these call outs all the time….I have never had a tenant pay for these works. Don't back down…refuse to pay the invoice.

    • pegasusx on 06/12/2023 - 09:31

      This is not always true. There is an onus on the tenant to maintain the cleanliness of the premises to a fair degree.
      Wear and tear is fair. But blockage due to tenant neglect is just that. Case in point is this thread about hair blockage. Its no different than making sure the gutters are clear.

      • nigel deborah on 06/12/2023 - 11:32
        -1

        Requires proof of tenants fault though, and even if it was, the landlord is still required to fix it (and pay for that fix) while awaiting outcome of tribunal claim.

      • kiwimex on 06/12/2023 - 13:59
        +2

        Hmmm just been to this exact same job this morning would you believe. Tenants moved in back in March…shower drain overflowing, basin backing up as is the bath…..found the ORG outside overflowing and plunged that……..Drain was blocked due to most likely a build up of hair and soap scum…..! 100% this is on the owner. I also find many times the hair clogs in basins is due to the pop up wastes….and many times in showers is because debris is catching on tilers grout etc. All not the tenants fault. Plumber on this post is assuming as he only plunged the drain…..I bet there is no photographic evidence……….everything else is just an assumption.

    • Danstar on 06/12/2023 - 10:00

      It's not basic maintenance if it was caused by the tenant.

      The plumber has most likely given the report to the agent, where they said it was just a basic clogged drain that could have easily been fixed by tenant. I would even assume that it wasn't even a clogged drain, but just a drain cover being blocked and never cleaned since they've moved in.

      • kiwimex on 07/12/2023 - 07:26
        +1

        You are also assuming that the tenant has a clue on why and how to unblock a drain….you will be surprised most don't have any idea.

  • slashor on 06/12/2023 - 10:07
    +3

    I am almost always for the tenant and dislike REAs/landlords but I reckon in this case it is on you. You should have noticed shower was draining poorly over a period of time and that it eventually clogged up. I have had to clean them myself as a tenant. If you got someone with long hair, clogged drains are a thing and you should know how to clean them.

    I reckon it is a pretty rough way to find out. I would ask to split the bill with the landlord. If it was something like tree roots blocking a pipe it would all be on the landlord. Just the same as if you clogged the kitchen sink by pouring too much grease down the drain.

  • lint on 06/12/2023 - 11:21
    +1

    Usually it's the owner that pays for blockages unless it can be proven that the tenant caused the blockage.

    And if it isn't something dumb like wet wipes or sanitary pads in the drain, it'll likely just be general buildup over time due to letting hair and things go in. In that case, unless there's only ever been one tenant, good luck to the owner trying to prove it's the tenant's fault.

  • Jimmycfc on 06/12/2023 - 11:54
    -3

    Your hair, your blockage, your payment.

    • RTX9090Ti on 06/12/2023 - 15:12

      yeah, its only $350.

      • Jimmycfc on 06/12/2023 - 15:18

        I've had to cop it twice in two different apartments as a renter, if its your hair blocking it how can it be the owners fault.
        The plumber always said the gel block removal products are trash and just use boiling water.

        • RTX9090Ti on 06/12/2023 - 15:23

          Not sure why I got downvoted earlier.

      • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 17:34

        $350 is a lot, but it's still the tenants hair that contributed to the blockage.

  • Relapse on 06/12/2023 - 12:57

    Halfway is a fair position in my uneducated opinion. You obviously contributed to it (hence the final blockage) but that's not the say there wasn't residue or blockages there before unless the owner has evidence that the pipes were cleared prior to you moving in or during your occupation. If someone in your household has long hair that is regularly ending up down the drains though I would review my position and probably suck it up.

  • SydBoy on 06/12/2023 - 13:13
    +5

    I have been property investor and as a tenant it is your responsibility to maintain the property, however the blockage due to hair not necessary all your hair and it could have build up over the years so it is the property owner's responsibility to fix it as no one willing to through their hairs in the drain and also regular maintenance required tenant to pay… !

    just don't pay and ask the real-estate agent (Who will never trust) that you can't pay as it is the property owner to pay as per the contract not you unless property owner can provide evidence that it was all my hair and it was cleaned before i moved in… !!!!

  • mauricem on 06/12/2023 - 13:35
    +1

    It could be the drainage pipes are already compromised by tree roots so the gravity flow will not be sufficient to clear normal shower waste like small amounts of hair?
    Of course if someone is dumping large amounts of hair and expecting it to wash aways eg trimming a long beard in the shower then that's going to be a problem either way.

    50/50 split sounds reasonable to me especially after 3 years assuming tenant hasnt been a problem.

  • stedmaster on 06/12/2023 - 14:06
    +1

    I remember when I was living with friends in a rental, the kitchen drain started backing up from grease and fat, people weren't draining/wiping cookware before putting in the dishwasher or sink. We had to pay the bill.

    I'm pedantic about it now at my place, and use wet wipes/paper towels and wipe any grease or fat from a dish before putting in a sink or dishwasher. I also use these in the bathrooms.

    You'd be surprised how much hair and debris that thing can catch from one shower, basically have to clear it out in a bin almost each time.

    Also, wet wipes, no matter what it says, should never go down the toilet. Only TP and 1 and 2 if you don't want any problems. It might take wipes for a while, but they build up.
    It's actually a major issue even globally.

    The only issues I've had recently has been tree roots, no other issues ever.

    • TaurusHead on 06/12/2023 - 15:06
      -1

      I guess I'm vigilant about things you mentioned from the first day and I guess that's why it took more than 3 years for this to happen, and that's why I'm wondering what could I have possibly done more.

      and would recommend any particular brand for the draino liquid?

      • stedmaster on 06/12/2023 - 18:55
        +1

        If you're not letting grease or oil down any drains you shouldn't really need draino.

        Its about avoiding coagulation materials that stick and don't dissolve in low temps, even light food debris can rot and break down, although it should be avoided.

        If you do cold wash or cold/short showers, you can get soap scum build up a lot more easily with certain soaps, in that case you could use draino, but it can cause more issues if used often like eating at plumbing adhesives and being highly corrosive. Its usually only advertised for S or P traps under the sink, which generally are easy to plunge.

        One other thing to watch out for is fabric softeners, They can cause a lot of clogging, as to their non soluble materials that stick, if that was going down the same drain from the washer, that could combine with the hair and clog up over time.

        The inside of the drain should actually be fine with hair as well, as long as it isn't a lot of pet hair too, usually its only the long hairs that get caught and twine on the strainer before the drain pipe, like in the bath or shower. Its when there are coagulants like soap scum or other oily greasy materials in the drain as well, it will stick to the debris too, it will just keep building up.

        One other thing that can happen is if there is insufficient grade in the drain, i.e it doesn't have an aggressive enough downward angle and hair and scum can continually build up layers. If the drains had a stench, this can be an indication of sitting fluids from poor grade.

  • trapper on 06/12/2023 - 14:38

    Unless you did something specifically silly, the owner should probably pay…

    But that said, you could have avoided this whole dispute in the first place if you had done the obvious thing and tried using a plunger for 5 mins…

  • tetra on 06/12/2023 - 16:55
    +5

    For Victoria,

    https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT…

    Even if I accept that the tenant’s hair caused any blockage based on the letter from the plumber, taking into account the length of the tenancy, I do not accept this is more than fair wear and tear or was caused by unreasonable use of the bathroom and therefore I dismiss the claim.

    Of course these things aren't set in stone, but it's a good indication.

    • jason101 on 06/12/2023 - 21:22
      +1

      An amazing read - thanks for sharing, I wanted to read the part about the hair but became hooked on the other 50-60 matters - that landlord would have walked away with a sore head from the beating they took.

    • RecklessMonkeys on 18/12/2023 - 19:47

      total claim $13,154.96
      awarded $898.75

      Everyone on this thread should have a read of this. It demonstrates everything about the mindset of a bad landlord.

      $5.95 for the cost of replacing a white board eraser

      LOL

    • Benno007 on 20/12/2023 - 08:57
      +1

      This shit is why I’m going to kick out any tenants who start damaging my property as soon as I see it next time, and will be much more selective… the timelines of some of these things ‘redo floorboards every 3-5 years’ or replace carpets every 7 years… only applies to rentals. If you own and take good care it lasts 5x.

      My carpet was old but completely unmarked/unstained before my tenants moved in for 1.5 years with their dog. If it was longer tenancy like in that VCAT maybe I wouldn’t have been so annoyed. They let their dog piss all over it and dig into it, ripping it, and because the carpet was old, even though there’s photographs of the clean state before, I wasn’t able to get anything from their dog ruining my carpet.

      They had a rug over the most damaged section during inspections so it wasn’t noticed til the exit. They also dented the wall in 3 places, like punching it, cracked my bathroom sink and left rust and dog piss stains on my balcony and I barely got more than $200 out of them.

      The only thing that might be wear and tear is balcony because it’s outside, but it just shows their lack of care in general. Just annoyed me that I had someone in there for 3 years who made no damage at all then these (profanity) come in and turn it into a slum of a place

  • Widget on 06/12/2023 - 17:18

    $350 for a plunger job, yikes!

    With that being said, if it were a physical fault, such as a cracked pipe, I would expect the owner to foot the bill. However, as it was a blockage due to hair/scum buildup, that's really not the owners fault. It's up the the tenant to ensure things like this don't happen. If the dishwasher gets blocked with food, should the owner pay? If the toilet gets blocked because huge poop/toilet paper/sanitary items get flushed, should the owner be responsible? No.

    [EDIT] I just noticed OP stated the property manager organised for the plumber to come out. If the tenant didn't agree to a plumber then I would question the fee as the plumber would have been in agreement/contract with the landlord or property manager, not the tenant? (im not a lawyer, just spitballing).

  • Lockieasy on 06/12/2023 - 20:22
    +3

    I just use Draino. It disintegrates hair and other muck that accumulates around it causing the blockage.

  • ihbh on 06/12/2023 - 20:29
    +1

    Save everyone some money and get this and put it down the drain every 3/6 months, as directed.

    https://www.bigw.com.au/product/strike-drain-cleaner-crystal…

  • CowFrogHorse on 06/12/2023 - 21:21

    Isnt there a real estate board that handles these types of issues ?

  • JimB on 06/12/2023 - 22:00
    +1

    I had this happen with 2 of my rental properties.

    Hasn't happened before and hasn't since.

    I just paid it as it could have built up years before the tenant started living there.

    Also depends on how far the blockage was. if it happened at the P or S Trap, I'd say it's the tenant's fault if it happened again.

    One off occurrence, I'd say it's the landlord's should pay for it as it could have started years ago.

  • Eeples on 06/12/2023 - 22:17

    Without a before drainage inspection/report/pics …. Not sure how the OP can be liable. Unless it was a new build.

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