Near all time low
ATL Shopping Express deal was $5 cheaper after shipping and surcharge included
Note: Smart Home Store AU = another eBay front from Shopping Express
100-100000910WOF
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D (Base: 4.2GHz, Boost: 5.0GHz / 104MB Cache / AM5 / 8 Core / 120 Watt, No Heatsink Fan / Raphael)
3 Year/s Warranty
What DDR5 issues? Sorry, I’ve been living under the rock.
At the moment, it is unsafe to just get any DDR5 RAMs and expect them to run without issue on AM5 platform. The first RAM kit I used simply wouldn't boot reliably with my AM5 system even at rated speed. The issues were (1) cold boot at the beginning of day has only 20% of success rate (2) random blue screen at times and the worst of all (3) occasionally, the PC would freeze when going through BIOS. 1 DIMM did work.
While I did change to SK Hynix die based kit (M die), there are still certain RAM setting combinations (not overclocking) that can cause issues. Then, there is the memory training issue. Even with memory context restore, it does on occasion need to do a memory re-train. Furthermore, every BIOS update (at least for my AM5 board) requires the RAM speed to be set to JDEC settings in BIOS (i.e. drop to AMD base system default), update the BIOS, then set back to EXPO or XMP (and that will then require a memory re-train).
Memory training time has reduced a lot with the recent AGESA updates. Used to be very long (minutes). Then, there is also that don't bother with 4 DIMMs, unless you are happy with DDR5-4800.
Put it this way. What’s the best motherboard and DDR5 combo for the money for this CPU that will 100% run without issues?
@Krepokrip: Check your motherboard memory QVL. For the time being, stick with SK Hynix A-die or M-die memory kits (A-die if you can afford, M-die if you want more cost effective (i.e. you don't want to spend that much on a memory kit). Forget about 4 DIMMs (unless you don't care about RAM frequency at all).
It's best to buy from a retailer that has good return policy or from Amazon AU.
@netsurfer: I don’t have a motherboard yet. Planning on getting something to go along with RTX 4080. And was wondering if there is any motherboard & DDR5 combo option that’s 100% tested and works.
@Krepokrip: Most people don't have issues with SK Hynix die base kits and just don't get 4 DIMMs. Use the motherboard QVL list because the list generally tells you the memory die type.
Motherboards with a code display onboard is handy since there is a code that tells you it is in memory training mode and you simply have to wait. Cheaper boards with just 4 LEDs are still workable (well, I didn't want to overspend on an AM5 board), just need to remember the very first time you change the BIOS to use EXPO or XMP, the AM5 PC will require one memory training, which can take a while, especially if you did not update the BIOS (initial BIOS / older BIOS version can take minutes, so don't be alarmed). I actually bought some cheap internal speaker just so that I can hear the beeps (I am more old school and can remember the number of beeps indicates which PC component is not working).
You also need to decide whether you will accept RAM kits which really need memory context restore set to off to work reliably. I personally won't accept that because I do find the memory re-training every boot annoying.
What a (profanity). AMD better get sued for this.
The DDR issues have improved with newer motherboard bioses . My ram was not stable at its rated speed but after bios updates it is now 100% stable while slightly undervolted .
The biggest annoyance I have now is the slooow boot time compared to my old X370 system .
I have the Asus X670 board which supposedly overvolts with this CPU . I assume this has been resolved ?
If you run your AM5 system with context restore turned off (i.e. memory re-train every time the system boots), then the system is not 100% stable. The initial DDR5 kit I had, I had to keep memory context restore off, otherwise it is simply unstable. Also, with AM5, standard basic full memory test is useless. I had my initial AM5 memory kit passing Memtest86 and still blue screen in Windows.
New BIOS versions (with newer AGESA) has cut down the memory training time a lot… though still a bit annoying. It just doesn't feel like my B550 based AM4 (which boots up right away). My AM5, if it decides to do a memory training will delay the boot by 15-20 seconds (the higher the RAM frequency, the longer the memory training time it takes). Also, it is the first time that I find tempered glass type of case useful. I do have to see the motherboard LEDs to ensure it is in memory training state, rather than it is !@#!@#!@.
While memory context restore does stop that annoying memory training phase, on occasions, the PC still wants to re-train. It does take a bit of getting used to. I need to remind myself that my AM5 system is doing a memory re-train, rather than the system is crashing / fails to boot.
Future AM5 CPUs and future AM5 motherboards with next iteration of chipsets will improve the situation, but first gen AM5…. it just doesn't feel that great to be honest. When it works, it is fast… but DDR5 so far is a bit annoying.
I built an am5 pc last week. Works great, but my God that boot time. It takes a solid 20 seconds from pressing the power button to see anything at all on the monitor
Dont get me started on am5 vs lga1700 mobo prices…..
Worth the extra $100~ on a new build to not buy into a dead platform for me personally.
May be dead but at least stable and mature.
Haven't had any issues apart from the 30s delay on cold boot for the "memory training" here.
More like $200 odd, surely?
I was mainly talking the extra cost in MB/RAM, rather than the processor, as they are hard to compare apples for apples as the AM5 stuff is better, i.e 7600 is about 30 to 35% faster than a 5600.
So probably an extra $65~ in MB and $35~ in ram costs vs going DDR4.
i guess the AM5 motherboard prices (itx i'm looking at you)…
ITX is dying
The 7840U mini PC's have had faster iGPU performance than any AMD ITX build for the past 6 months
8700G has just been confirmed as having the same Radeon 780M as the 7840U so the Zen 4 mini PC's at $900 (and falling) offer much better value
Not sure what you mean ITX is dying.. it's never ever been mainstream nor will I with an itx preference ever look at an igpu as an option for a good itx gaming build, what you're listing vs my ITX build in NR200 with 5600X and 6800XT isn't even close to being on par … Basically saying chipset in a rog ally at full wattage is competition for an itx build with desktop components and a dgpu.
For other uses sure they are a better option but a 7800X3D is mainly aimed at the gaming market.
Not sure what you mean ITX is dying.
Dying = range becoming limited plus what range is available is expensive, exactly as vid_ghost mentioned
… it's never ever been mainstream
A form factor does not have to be mainstream to be dying
ITX was fringe for AM4 and now dying for AM5 because mobo makers are not investing R&D to make new boards
AM5 requirements for PCB layer, VRM and DDR5 traces have skyrocketed which is why the cheapest AM5 ITX board is a garbage A620 for $200
what you're listing vs my ITX build in NR200 with 5600X and 6800XT isn't even close to being on par …
Your enthusiast class ITX gaming build is fringe - the majority of ITX builds are for SFF productivity and HTPC's
These builds are now easily covered by mini PC's
You will still have the option to build a B750I or X770I system in the future - it will just be very expensive compared to an equivalent mATX or ATX build
I used to really like ITX years ago and I built ITX systems with really compact cases. They are a pain to build (Antec ISK110 case for example). Nowadays, I think most people put standard CPUs in their larger ITX cases (I picked CPUs with lower TDP in the past). Also, due to lack of choices in Australia for ITX boards, I tend to have to pick a board that I don't really like that much.
Putting a GPU into an ITX setup doesn't quite make sense for me. I get some people prefer a more compact desktop setup, but with ITX and AM5, PCIe bifurcation advantage is harder to realise (unless you have a really large ITX case).
Putting a GPU into an ITX setup doesn't quite make sense for me
I play games but also like having a setup I can take in carry-on or to a lan. What's bifurcation got to do with it though?
@snep: Anyway, if LAN party is a key factor, sure ITX is a good option.
What's bifurcation got to do with it though?
Generally, you want 2 PCIe gen 4 or 5 x16 slots (physical x16 slots. Actual speed could be x8 x8 or even x16 x4). B650E and X670E are basically buying bifurcation enhancement. If you go down ITX path, then you generally can forget that feature.
ITX with gaming being primary reason is fine since 7800X3D doesn't need a great VRM anyway. Motherboard costs more, but I guess for most people, they don't really care about putting multiple PCIe cards in the system or run 4-6 m.2 NVMe SSDs.
@netsurfer: Yeah I don't think multiple PCI-e cards enters into the equation for the vast majority of ITX builds. Or actually, the vast majority of builds generally — multi GPU is dead for gaming (thought not for GPGPU), capture cards etc. are rare now and its unusual to need significant storage expansion except for a NAS build.
Generally, you want 2 PCIe gen 4 or 5 x16 slots
I'm surprised to hear someone say this, I would've assumed that most people just use a single slot.
@netsurfer: These days u can still put high end components in small volume. But u just need to have more PC DIY spirit to deal with them (sadly the recent few years PC DIY is just dying especially after the mining event). Smallest I’ve seen is to fit a 7950x3d + 4090 in a 5L case.
@netsurfer: There are some really annoying contradictions in current ITX boards.
For semi-decent CPU cooling in a compact case, you need the type of cooler that spreads out horizontally (e.g. L12S), but the good ITX boards have huge shrouds and VRM heatsinks and M.2 towers that too often cause compatibility issues with these coolers. Even going the water cooling route with a Dan A4 H2O, you still have clearance issues with many AIOs, both vertically and horizontally.
The cooling constraints of a compact case make them far from ideal for overclocking (and many ITX users go in the other direction - reducing power consumption by undervolting or power limits), yet the good ITX boards prioritise overclocking over SFF cooler compatibility.
And as you mention, GPUs. When it's getting harder to find short, 2 slot options, and SFF cases are being upsized to support growing GPU sizes even at the mid-range, we're pretty much at the point where the case may as well be designed for Micro ATX (like the Ncase M1 EVO).
I think ITX would make more sense again with a focus on features rather than power delivery. PCIe bifurcation could be a real enabler on ITX too, allowing one to pack in more M.2s or even a GPU/M.2 combo like the new ASUS 4060 Ti Dual (if only it didn't have such an oversized cooler).
What are you going on about, 1st of all itx builds are a niche market.
2ndly an itx build can fit a 4090, so there is no comparison here.
Traditionally, at least initially, an ITX build is meant to be quite compact. I don't think anyone can really state they have done a true ITX build unless they used a case like Antec ISK110 to build an ITX system.
Sure, nowadays, people do ITX builds with much larger cases. Part of the problem is that AM4 and AM5 desktop CPUs aren't really designed for true traditional ITX builds (unless you fork out and buy a really compact and top quality CPU fan). Rubbish integrated GPU is also an indicator Intel and AMD know true ITX builds are no longer important (i.e. people like me have long abandoned that path and moved to mini PCs like NUCs).
I understand there are people who want a PC that's more in the size of an XBox Series X. However, when you look at the ITX motherboard prices here, you simply have to pay more and get less features and most of the time inferior VRM setup. The fact that original type of compact ITX cases are no longer getting new versions mean true ITX builds are no longer there. ITX now feels like a smaller micro ATX build. You need to fork out more for a small form factor power supply, a more expensive cooling setup (otherwise you will end up with a dodgy system with inferior PSU, and inferior thermal).
@netsurfer: I've been building in itx cases for way more than a decade now probably decade n half… From multimedia cases before it was even a thing to now where you get a decent NR200 type or sandwich type case, and mate it's way easier to build one these days with better comparability than ever… It was always more expensive and it continues to track that way.. If you want a budget build don't bother with itx.. Hehe 🙂
@netsurfer: itx will almost always cost more, if you are building a high end itx system then budget usually isnt your no1 concern
when building an itx system, you are choosing Quality and Speed over Price
https://www.youtube.com/@optimumtech
makes some of the best itx builds in the world, i would check his videos out
Smart Home Store AU have some unfavourable returns policies imo, but ebay plus will allow 30 day free returns for change of mind. Just bought this and will look into whether boxing day unveils something better!
Bought first. Check compatibility later.
Thanks.. after mulling it over for the last 4 days i pulled the trigger and ordered one, along with some kingston m-die 32gb 6000mt ram. Just have to find a motherboard for it now, though ive no idea which to choose.
Pretty much the same price as a 5800X3D :) .. i guess the AM5 motherboard prices (itx i'm looking at you) and DDR5 ram compatibility and training issues are keeping people away