First Mirrorless Camera for Europe Trip & Canvas Prints

Choogz on 14/01/2024 - 23:36

Hi Guys,

Need some assistance choosing a camera + lens for our upcoming trip to europe in June.

Budget is around 2-3K

Haven't really been exposed to a higher varierty of DSLR camers so hoping to get a setup in the next month and tinker/learn the ropes before I travel.

I've been suggested greatly different opinions from friends that do photography as a hobby etc so really confused.

I've been told to get a Fujifilm X-T5 and a decent set of lens, my partner loves the film simulations/edits you can do on the go with this camera but I've also been told that you can do all this post shot in Adobe…

The other suggestion I was told was to get a used Sony A6000/A6400 and buy some lens 16-35mm or 24-70mm (likely to be f/4 iand something 35mm or 50mm for portraits…

Mainly travelling in Summer so I would say street photography/beach shots primarily in quite bright situations in Croatia/Italy but then visiting churches/night shots where low light could cause issues I presume?

Not sure if the full frame cameras are better for what i'm trying to achieve photography wise but the aim is to blow up some of these images into large canvas prints for our house hence the larger budget instead of using our iPhone 15 Pro..

Electrical & Electronics Camera

Comments

  • sumyungguy on 14/01/2024 - 23:49

    I've been watching a bunch stuff on YouTube about 35mm focal length for travel; and Sony ZV-E10 vs a6400. Although somewhat below your budget…

    • AustriaBargain on 15/01/2024 - 00:16
      +1

      Surely you should get a nifty 50, or equivalent 50mm.

      • sumyungguy on 15/01/2024 - 00:20

        In the olden days our film SLRs came with 50mm kit lenses. Mine languished unused in my bag. I'd go 35mm f1.8 for travel.

        • AustriaBargain on 15/01/2024 - 00:22

          I wish they still did come with a prime lens, instead of the terrible zoom lens.

  • lawyerz on 14/01/2024 - 23:52
    +7

    Unless you're keen to spend a WHOLE lot of time to learn about cameras and photography, I'd recommend sticking with your iphone. It'll do canvas prints absolutely fine.

    I have multiple cameras across multiple systems and lots of large canvas prints on my walls and smartphones is what I'd recommend most people unless you're really into photography as a hobby.

    If you're still keen on something, my recommendation would be the Sony a7cii (~$2550) and the 20-70mm f4 lens. (~$1000) new. Your recommendations in your OP is fine too. They're all fine. Just be mindful buying lenses if it's for full frame or aps-c. Sony 6xxx cameras are aps-c but 24-70 sounds more like FF lenses to me.

    I would just get one lens starting out, otherwise they get heavy and bulky fast. Seriously, don't overlook weight and bulk. My favorite focal length is about 30mm for travel, if you're going to pick a prime.

  • Muzeeb on 15/01/2024 - 00:29
    +4

    You will enjoy your holiday better not lugging around lenses and a camera body. Just grab an RX100 VII and thank me later when you get back. Shoot JPG+RAW and any shortcomings can be adjusted later in Photoshop.

  • chartparker on 15/01/2024 - 05:44
    +2

    While I agree with most of the sentiment above, subjectively I still think the images from my X-T1 or X-T4 are leagues ahead of my iPhone 12.

    If you’re still set on getting a camera, an X-S20 and the XF35mm f2 would be a great starting point

    • kiitos on 15/01/2024 - 09:00

      What aspects of the images from your camera do you find better than those from your phone?

      • chartparker on 15/01/2024 - 12:14
        +2

        There's a lot of over sharpening, colour processing and shadow/highlight recovery in phone cameras that (to my eye) looks much more artificial and less pleasing than the images out of my Fujis. It's hard to explain, but maybe I can take some side by side photos for you. The Fuji images are just richer and more contrasty, while having more natural bokeh (shallow depth of field).

        That said, I also have a lot of nostalgia for the types of images that I remember from my childhood which were taken by my dad with old film cameras, so I'm very biased to what is a "pleasing" image.

        Oh, also I hate the FOV from a standard 24/26/28mm focal length of the standard phone camera and much prefer either a 40/50mm lens

  • flac on 15/01/2024 - 06:58

    Whether you go sony or fujifilm - the Tamron 17-70 2.8 is a great all around lens. It's relatively big and heavy but will cover all the focal lengths you want and takes beautiful photos. I shot it with an a6000 for the lat 3 years and have been incredibly happy with the results. The a6000 is quite long in the tooth though so while photos are great, autofocus is lacking so you will occasionally miss a shot. If going sony I would probably aim for a used a6600 if anything.
    I just sold my a6000 and am getting into fujifilm just for a new experience. Would love an XT5 but don't have the money so have gone with an XE-2. In my mind I'll grab the Tamron for the fuji mount as well eventually… it was that good.

  • payless69 on 15/01/2024 - 08:38
    -1

    Foy your budget you will get little hardware.
    Probably better off with 2 flagship phones, there are tons of youtubes out there to to tell what is best for your desire. Less load to carry, more people to look at outcomes.

  • Banj0 on 15/01/2024 - 09:07
    +8

    Forgive my post length…I do love photography and cameras!

    Per lawyerz point, there's a lot to learn. If you think you'll be into that though, and you enjoy research, have at it I say!

    I don't agree that smart phones are in any way comparable to a dedicated camera. I've lost count of the number of times I've only had my iPhone on me and wished I'd had one of my cameras. Of course the reason I haven't had a camera on me is size/weight, so having access to some pretty impressive technology in such a small device is pretty awesome. Still, I can't imaging printing many of the images I've taken on my iPhone to poster size - as soon as I get them to monitor size on my screen I can see that they are not remotely close to what I can capture on a dedicated camera. How fussy are you though?

    Ok…so presuming you do actually want to go ahead with a dedicated camera…

    For pure image quality…yes, bigger sensors are in general better. No way of getting around the physics…if all else is comparable, you can capture more light with a full frame camera than you can with a compact camera sensor such as is in your phone. It gets complicated, but as a rule of thumb, this is the case.

    Yes…you can do a lot with images in an image processing app on your PC. I use Lightroom a lot…and then rarely Photoshop when I need additional features. Here again I can wring WAY more out of a shot taken on my full frame DSLR than I can from something out of my iPhone (which is already processed heavily in the phone anyway). However, here is more added expense, and a very steep learning curve. Red pill or blue pill? If you do decide you'd like to try your hand at editing, then I suggest you shoot in some sort of mode that writes a raw file.

    Lenses

    A standard zoom on full frame these days would be around 24-70mm. In micro four thirds this would be like 12-35mm. In APS-C this would be like 16-50mm. There is an informal class of lenses known as 'travel zooms', and these will often go a little, or much longer (so like 24-100mm, or 24-200mm). For a lot of travel stuff, you'll be shooting at the wide end (landscape, architecture). I do not think a 35mm equivalent is the best these days, particularly if you want to capture the interior of an historic church or the like - an ultra-wide lens (24mm or shorter) is king. It can be worth getting into a particular system just for a certain lens (and sometimes people will do this). Buy a used camera if you must, and spend more on glass!

    You may of course go with prime lenses if you think you'll be happy to change lenses. I have a little Sony A7 (original) and a 24mm and 45mm primes. I can shoot an awful lot with those two lenses, but it is difficult to be spontaneous when you're digging a lens out of a bag, fumbling with removing the attached lens while trying to hold the replacement and avoid having the sensor exposed to dust/moisture.

    Bodies

    Compact cameras

    These are the likes of the RX100 (Sony) or G7X (Canon) compact zoom cameras. There are also cameras like the FujiFilm X100V (fixed prime lens, but crazy overpriced atm) or Ricoh GRIII (fixed prime…you could probably get the normal and X version for your money, thus have two focal lengths and still a more compact load than many interchangeable lens cameras).

    Sony

    The gorilla in the room. They make both full-frame (A7*, A9) and APS-C (A6) bodies. Lenses usable across all, though you need to pay attention to crop vs full frame lenses. Best lens support - a lot of third party options for Sony E-mount. Whilst I do own a Sony, it is not my main shooter nor is it the camera I love using the most, but it is probably my recommendation for an interchangeable lens mirrorless camera due to the lens availability.

    Canon

    The other gorilla. Plenty of good glass. Bit of a reputation for withholding features. Excellent AF and tracking.

    Nikon

    Used to be a Gorilla. Has taken a hit. Coming back more recently. Their retro cameras look nice!

    Fujifilm

    Hipster cameras ;-) I really want one of these as I like the old timey controls on a lot of their bodies (reminds me of the mechanical SLR's I learned on). Seems to be a camera for people to really enjoy. Well reputed simulations. Price surge lately? Fujifilm also offers a medium format line…though beyond your $$$

    L-Mount

    We're probably talking Panasonic full-frame here, but Leica is in the system too ($$$). Panasonic tends towards video a little - so you can be assured you'll be getting decent video performance in many of their bodies. L-Mount should mean a large selection of lenses available, but in reality they have fallen a little short (watch this space though)

    Olympus (OM Digital Solutions)

    Micro four thirds. Large catalogue of lenses (Panasonic also has micro four thirds - and has had wildly popular video-centric bodies in past years). Olympus has excellent build and weather resistance, and remains a relatively popular option for nature/action. Micro four thirds lags behind larger formats in sensor performance, but I think it remains a compelling platform. Olympus glass is excellent and makes up in part for the shortfalls of the smaller sensors. Fantastic image stabilisation. Compact and light (mostly due to the glass, but that usually means less light captured too)!

    Pentax

    I mention only because I have Pentax and love them. I wouldn't seriously suggest Pentax unless you want a DSLR (they are likely to be the only remaining manufacturer before long). Good reputation for build quality and weather sealing. Some nice glass - but limited options if you want modern lenses. Huge range of used K mount glass available going back many decades.

    So much to think about…

    It's a lot right? Honestly, you're probably best with either Sony gear (for technically advanced cameras with a huge range of lenses), or the Fujifilm stuff (if the film sims, retro-ish vibe, and fun shooting are your thing). Grab an f4 standard zoom (or 2.8 is you really want more light for the night/indoors shooting and don't mind the weight).

    If you're unsure about learning a system though, and carrying that through to post-processing (Adobe or whatever), then lawyerz' advice on the phone is probably right - get the latest and greatest iPhone and you're set.

  • boomramada on 15/01/2024 - 09:30

    Get a Sony A6000 with SEL24105G. Base camera, good lense (for travel), with a bit of skill, you can get good pictures. You can't go wrong with that. Once you get good at it, keep the lens, upgrade the camera.

  • jv on 15/01/2024 - 09:57

    First Mirrorless Camera for Europe Trip

    Epson R-D1

  • p1 ama on 15/01/2024 - 11:07
    -1

    Not sure if the full frame cameras are better for what i'm trying to achieve photography wise but the aim is to blow up some of these images into large canvas prints for our house hence the larger budget instead of using our iPhone 15 Pro..

    You will get better photos out of your iPhone 15 Pro vs. a "real" camera unless you spend the time to learn how to use it. Unfortunately, within six months, it's hard to reach a skill-level where this would be the case. Too many people spend too much money buying camera equipment, to be honest - spend some of your budget buying some photography books, enrolling in a course, buying instructional materials…etc. instead. You'll learn much more and take much better photos that way.

    My suggestion is to actually learn how to take photos rather than worrying about cameras. Start watching videos, reading books, looking at photos other people take, and get to a point where if you look at a photo, you understand how it was taken.

    To get the most out of your iPhone, you need to understand perspective - when to use the wide-angle, standard, and telephoto lenses (it's not just for "zooming in and out") - use perspective and how close you get to your subject as an artistic choice. Go out when you have some time and try some portraiture, for example - use the telephoto lens and step back. You'll get results similar to, if not better than, what you would get out of a camera if you're just spraying and praying.

    Then I would buy a tripod with a phone mount so you can do long exposures and better quality landscapes. Then scope out locations where you get the best shot…etc.

    Only when you can identify "this is what I want to do, and the phone is the limiting factor", that I would suggest you go out and spend thousands of dollars on a camera. FWIW, I recently came back from a trip and printed several shots to put up. Several of them were from my Galaxy S22 Ultra.

    • Namesareapain on 15/01/2024 - 12:12
      +1

      No, you will get far better photos out of a real camera with a large sensor than a phone no matter what skill level you are, it is nonsensical to claim otherwise.
      Even someone that is not skilled would be using the same types of modes (like auto) on a camera as would be used on a phone.

      • p1 ama on 15/01/2024 - 12:24
        -1

        No, you will get far better photos out of a real camera with a large sensor than a phone no matter what skill level you are, it is nonsensical to claim otherwise.

        Sorry, but this is completely untrue.

        Phones have much smarter technology than most cameras. Things like automatic HDR and exposure balancing on the subject of the photo are far superior to the matrix metering that most cameras use. If you're not at the level where you're already using exposure compensation, you're better off using a phone.

        Important to note that "better photos" does not mean "higher image quality". The question is if you have a limited budget, how do you use it to get the best photos possible - unless you are at the level where you can exploit the higher quality tools, you're better off using your limited budget on becoming a better photographer, going to better locations, and learning to use your phone first.

        You've completely missed the point of my post. It's that most people should not buy a new camera and just expect to get "good photos" - a phone in the hands of an experienced photographer will get much better photos than a "real" camera in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. The point is to spend the time and effort to learn photography because that's what gives the real payoffs, not the expensive camera.

        • boomramada on 15/01/2024 - 13:09

          For FB or IG, phones are in fact better than DSLR , as phone software/AI make it look better.
          But if you want to blow it up for canvas. then DSLR is way better, you get the clear, sharper and better contrast image.

          But in OPs case, just enjoy the holiday and post the pics on FB, if you want canvse, buy some pics from a Pro lol

  • Namesareapain on 15/01/2024 - 12:17

    Avoid those old Sony cameras like the A6000, they are very long in the tooth and have stupid lossy RAW file compression (which loves to destroy image quality on high contrast edges, like lit buildings at night and stars in the night sky)

  • jenna12 on 15/01/2024 - 12:45

    A lot of good advice here, pocket point and shoot cameras are great but it wasn't until getting my first interchangeable lens camera that I finally realised that's what I was missing. A super low budget option that fits in a large pocket: pre-owned NEX5 or 5100 with the 35mm SEL35F18 (~50mm full frame equivalent) OSS lens. Five times within your budget, you won't be precious about it, not the end of the world if you realise photography's not your thing, plus spare money for genuine batteries and another lens if you find the 35mm too short/long for your interests. Spend the rest on enjoying your holiday.

    Alternatively, browse your way up the a6XXX options until you hit your budget limit. You could easily get an a6400 and a couple of lenses within your 3k budget The bodies do get slightly bigger as you go further up the lineup, as do many of the lenses, especially quality zooms. It's personal preference, some people love one zoom to cover everything, but I'd rather carry just one or two physically smaller (and wider aperture) primes. I find with zooms I end up mostly using a small percentage of the range anyway, so the extra bulk, lower image quality, higher cost, and aperture restrictions rarely seem worth it.

    Disclaimer: other camera brands are also available, lol.

  • YadaYadaYada on 15/01/2024 - 14:03

    If you're not familiar with manual camera settings, I recommend just getting one of the decent high end compacts like the Sony RX100. They take great pictures that you can just blow up into canvas prints and you can use it in manual mode if you wish to be more creative. At least try this before investing in more hefty equipment. Otherwise buying a mirrorless or any interchangeable lens camera usually means an expensive investment into the camera and various lenses (and this may mean heavy equipment to lug around).

  • Caped Baldy on 15/01/2024 - 14:16

    I took my Sony A7iii overseas recently and a couple people on my tour had Canons - R7 and R10 I believe. They were APS-C but super light and produced some good shots.

    Canon is pretty shitty with only allowing their lenses on the newer RF bodies.

  • lMalfunctionl on 15/01/2024 - 18:57
    +1

    I was in the same boat and ended up picking up a second hand Fujiflim xt5 with a 18-55mm lens for my trip which I have now returned from. The lens was a perfect choice for me as it cover all situations and was convenient to carry around. I did end up bring along 35mm lens as well but did not use it on my trip at all.

    As a true beginner I really enjoyed playing with the physical buttons and getting used to the camera before going on my trip (I bought the camera in October).

    In terms of flim simulations, I like finding new recipes online (particularly from https://fujixweekly.com/recipes) and saving them as opposed to editing in post.

  • enthusiast on 15/01/2024 - 23:36

    I took a Fujifilm XT1 + 18-135 lens through ME + EU in 2015, and it was a very versatile camera and lens combo. The film simulations are great. It's nice to be able to get beautiful images straight out of camera and not have to edit later on. Also some nice in-camera panos, too. Also quite a dust / weather resistant combo.

  • Choogz on 16/01/2024 - 19:24

    Currently weighing up the X-S20 or XT-5 used and buying some good glass

    Partner does not want to tinker for edits post shot so I think the presets in the Fuji are the factor.

    • chartparker on 16/01/2024 - 19:32

      Yup I think you’re onto a winner. I used to do heaps of photo editing in Lightroom but these days I’m happy enough with the straight out of camera jpegs from my Fujis (with various recipes) that Lightroom doesn’t really get used much anymore.

      If you’re trying to save money I highly recommend the XC35mm f2. Only differences between it and the XF are the plastic body, lack of weather sealing and the aperture ring. Optics are identical and I swear there’s some optical magic in there sometimes

    • Banj0 on 16/01/2024 - 20:18

      For sure. If you don’t want to tinker in post, then raw shooting is probably not for you. RAW shots really need processing before consumption (though you can do this in camera too). Of course, you can shoot RAW and JPEG as ‘a just incase’. Think of it in audio terms as like having an original lossless recording vs an mp3.

      Do check the image recording mode when you get your camera. Sometimes they aren’t set to record the finest images possible, and if you do want RAW as well as jpeg that is almost never the default setting.

      Fujifilm sounds like a fun option. I really want an XT myself, but would probably be quite happy with the XT3 I think. I probably have enough cameras already though, and in the end they can all take good shots!

      All the best for your travel, and I hope you get some extraordinary photo memories out of both your iPhone and whatever camera body you end up with!

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