Workplace Putting Me on Performance Management

vvvv on 28/03/2024 - 23:47

I work in IT and have had a recent change in management with whom things havent been working out at all. The person seems juvenile and has had no background in IT and its been really difficult to work with this person, she micromanages us a lot and expects every minor detail to be conveyed which never happens with experienced managers in my 10 years of work experience.

I had to go for a blood test for diabetes recently whose appointments on weekends are not possible and on weekdays I booked an appointment in two days and informed my manager about it that even though I will be away for two hours I will make it up by working the extra hours over time which I did. The person made a big fuss about it and said she needs to be informed well in advance about it.

Also after that in a discussion I have been told I am always late where as I usually have been reporting at 9:15-9:20 for the last 6 months I have been never told about it so it really seems unfair. Not to mention that said manager is always late for meetings by 10 mins since coffees need to be picked up which is okay I guess.

Also coming to work the said manager always keep shifting priorities with our projects and has been a walking disaster at times. If I am working on project X which si supposed to go on for 1 month, I will be shoved with urgent issues and still expected to complete the project in a month. Despite repeatedly flagging these incidents I have been blatantly told that I am not meeting deadlines.

Can I go to fair work with all this information since a Performance plan seems like I have been scapegoated for the managers problems to deal with their stakeholders?

Education & Work

Comments

  • timthetoolman on 29/03/2024 - 14:35
    +15

    You should be on Ozbargain performance management for not replying to anyone's questions in 15 hours

  • mrvaluepack on 29/03/2024 - 14:37
    +4

    Performance management means its time to apply for new jobs. Do not put anymore effort into your current job, use all your resources and time to find a new job. Nothing positive ever happens from performance management, the relationship is already in the shitter at that stage.

  • hoxyz on 29/03/2024 - 15:00

    Just quit like others said. Looks that you are depressed if you have to bring this up to the forum. If you take your mental health into account, the earlier you leave the better you and your life will be.

  • altomic on 29/03/2024 - 15:08
    +2

    I recently had a coworker leave after being put on a performance management plan.

    That worker was lazy, incompetent and unprofessional.

    They did less than the bare minimum and constantly made mistakes in their work - even the simplist of tasks.

    The rest of the team not only picked up that persons share of the work , but then had to correct the errors made.

    Their presence destroyed team morale.

    Everything they touched was a train wreck.

    The day they left(resigned) was a celebration for everyone. I felt a weight lifted off my shoulders.

    • DodgyDavesDiscounts on 29/03/2024 - 15:39

      Being an IT manager in the past (with IT experience) I've had to put two guys on perf reviews in the past. The morale of the team went up as everyone was happy these two time wasters were on notice. One quit without another job to go to (a bold move) the other guy got two strikes before making it out the door to another job (that poor company). The rest of the team were legends.

      @altomic

      this line brought back memories "Everything they touched was a train wreck." gave me a chuckle.

      We always worried when these guys were oncall - the world was going to end hahahaha.

      • Sammy2000 on 29/03/2024 - 19:37
        +3

        It is nice to read that performance management is used for these types of workers, I have left jobs as these people are "mates" with the mangers and got away with everything bringing down the whole team.
        Have only seen Performance management used used to clear out workers that managers didn't like even if they performed well.

  • ihbh on 29/03/2024 - 16:15
    +1

    What is the gist of your performance plan? Is it reasonable or not?

    • derrida derider on 29/03/2024 - 20:49
      +14

      If two days notice is insufficent OP should have just pulled a sickie and taken the day off - it's what most people would do. Manager is being silly with that - what if the test is urgent? Or if that is the only time available?

      Confident, competent managers on top of the product their team is producing can judge their workers by their output - they can say a few minutes in the morning is neither here nor there if someone is putting in the effort and producing good output. Sounds like OP's previous manager fitted that bill.

      But if the manager does NOT know the product they cannot judge quality of output and so will judge by process, not results - eg does the person keep time. They will micromanage. This is what is happening - the new boss is a lousy manager not because they are stupid or nasty but because they are ignorant and hence insecure.

      None of which is a comfort to OP because the result is the same - OP needs to start looking for another job.

      • scooba on 29/03/2024 - 22:55
        -5

        Yeah sure, because pretending to be sick is better than giving your boss a weeks notice to have two hours off or even better, take a days leave if you had it.

        You can stop with how things are supposed to be in the office with "competent this" and "workers by their output" that. OP's boss sounds like a jerk and there's plenty of them out there so the best thing to do is go to their boss, unless OP's boss is brown nosing her boss and has some immunity so she can be late to meetings etc which OP mentioned.

        Yes I agree, OP needs to look for something else, but something tells me that OP will probably run into the same problem with a different employer.

    • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 03:12
      +6

      Really a weeks notice for 2 extra hours in the workday? Software development is not like working at McDonalds or at a coffee shop where a 2 hours break is obviously isnt acceptable. I only booked the test since I knew in advance that it wouldnt impact work. Also other teammates take similar liberties too. I will be asking the higher ups if they have been given the same feedback or not?

      • Nebargains on 30/03/2024 - 20:05
        -6

        Yes more than 2 days notice would be better. I gather you knew you needed to get a blood test and had a referral before the 2 days, could have given your boss the heads up first so they knew it was coming.

        You have no idea why work might be coming on that day, for all you know they have something planned.

        How can a manager or team lead organise and manage work loads of they don't know that in 2 days suddenly won't be there for a quarter of the standard business hours?

        • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 20:14
          +6

          Once again we dont work at a coffee shop or a McDonalds. Work is planned ahead of time and I knew what was gonna be done on the day and I knew it was not gonna impact anything and it didnt. Appointments are not easy to get and I got the slot that I could get at the latest and I informed when I got a confirmation.

          Also have enough data points to prove this mate.

          No other manager has made a fuss about this in my career, they have empathy and dont have look for scapegoats to hide their shortcomings.
          There are other people in the team who drop of their kids and who work from home at similar notice too. They seem to go scott free.

      • scooba on 30/03/2024 - 22:06
        -7

        So let me get this straight, you complained in your original post that "The person made a big fuss about it and said she needs to be informed well in advance about it.", then when I say you should give a weeks notice if you need time off you say "I only booked the test since I knew in advance that it wouldn't impact work" and "other teammates take similar liberties too".

        I'm starting to see why you're having problems at work. As I said before in my first post, in this country "you really need to give a week's notice minimum if you want to show your employer any sort of respect."

        Also, I can see from your comment that you think because your teammates take "similar liberties" that you think you're entitled to them as well. Not everyone has the same output at work and by the sounds of it you think you're the same robot as your fellow employees, but if your making assumptions like "I only took a test because "I knew" it wouldn't impact work" you are far from the same and need to do some retraining.

        • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 22:18
          +3

          A persons health should come above any employment contract. Whats the point of working for someone if you have to ignore your health concerns for them?

          Any other manager in my career was fine with a days notice for a health issue. I worked in a Big 4s and MNCs and my partners and supervisors were cool to deal with it.

          Now if you dont understand the exact situation and are just trying to nitpick words and proove someone wrong then I am not sure how you are being helpful here.

          • scooba on 30/03/2024 - 22:35
            -6

            @vvvv: No I'm not trying to "proove" someone wrong or "nitpick" words, I'm simply quoting you and trying to help you understand what you need to do to gain respect from your employer in Australia, whether it's a health issue or not, regardless of how you were treated at your former employers.

            Sounds like you think you're too cool for school if you're telling me you "worked in a Big 4s and MNCs", respect from your employer is earnt, not given.

  • Zapwap on 29/03/2024 - 16:39
    +3

    All the red flags there. Two options you've got, serve a notice and start looking or have a bold discussion with the higher management for a win win.

    Fair work may help but I that could be a long shot since you haven't been following all the rules too.

    And yes, I never really followed senior management's thought process whenever they decided to make a non IT person in charge of the IT dept or a team. This will only bring chaos.

  • Empharand on 29/03/2024 - 17:20
    +7

    Also after that in a discussion I have been told I am always late where as I usually have been reporting at 9:15-9:20 for the last 6 months

    I think everyone would like a little more clarification regarding this….
    If you're supposed to be starting at 9 then your manager has a point, if you somehow have flexible work arrangements then maybe not…

    Not to mention that said manager is always late for meetings by 10 mins since coffees need to be picked up which is okay I guess

    It's very rare for managers to apply the same rules to themselves that they do with their employee's…..

    she micromanages us a lot and expects every minor detail to be conveyed which never happens with experienced managers in my 10 years of work experience

    Maybe it's time to start putting your feelers out to see if you can take that 10 years of experience and talk your way into a better paying and more fullfilling career in IT?

  • Powershopz on 29/03/2024 - 17:27
    +7

    Start looking for a new job. Simple as that. Performance Plan = We want to make your life miserable to get you out of the business.

  • ThisOldMan on 29/03/2024 - 17:42
    +1

    So, what is the actual performance management for?, you've mentioned that you're in 9:20, but performance management would be overkill for managing that kind of thing. I'd be interested to understand the details around the performance management. The fair work act requires any kind of dismissal for performance to have given you an opportunity to improve and to have been told exactly what you need to improve on.

  • jaimex2 on 29/03/2024 - 17:45
    +1

    You need to spend more time on malicious compliance threads and start adding some of your own.

    Paper trails and ass covering and all that of course. Build a nice big kafka spike pit for her to fall into.

  • gromit on 29/03/2024 - 17:55
    -1

    Also after that in a discussion I have been told I am always late where as I usually have been reporting at 9:15-9:20 for the last 6 months

    sooo I gather you are supposed to start at 9? if so then you have nothing to complain about as you are always late. if you are supposed to start at 9:30 then yeah you have a point.

    Can I go to fair work with all this information since a Performance plan seems like I have been scapegoated for the managers problems to deal with their stakeholders?

    If as above you are always late then whether you are being scapegoated or not you don't have a case as you have set yourself up perfectly to take the fall by being always late.
    Especially if you are failing to meet deadlines (regardless of how unreasonable) as you are basically skipping out on a couple of hours a week of work.

    Not to mention that said manager is always late for meetings by 10 mins since coffees need to be picked up which is okay I guess.

    Not just ok, but completely irrelevant, she answers to her boss not you. She should set an example, but being a bad example has no barring on you.

    Two days is pretty short notice, you would have been better off taking personal leave for an afternoon.

  • joelmuzz on 29/03/2024 - 17:59
    +8

    Perfomance Management is Australias way of telling you to look for another job.
    You might as well start interviewing, they should give an ok reference since it works to their benefit of pushing you out.

  • Dack Smith on 29/03/2024 - 18:30
    +4

    What do you expect?

    The more senile and incompetent you are, the more likely you get the higher manager position.

    Stories like this are endless, people with a shred of decency and self respect don’t try to attain or go for these jobs, because it’s for dumb assholes.

    Get another job

  • infinite on 29/03/2024 - 19:31

    Hopefully OP starts turning up on time, realising they can't dictate leave on short notice & that they must communicate more effectively. Otherwise they'll be joining the Centrelink line pretty quickly and without an employment reference too.

    • prodrome on 31/03/2024 - 11:07
      -2

      Not in this job market. OP will be hired elsewhere for twice the pay and half the work.

      • infinite on 02/04/2024 - 21:55

        Cool story, Reddit.

        • michaelTito on 02/04/2024 - 22:34
          +1

          Haha next thing you know he’s on 400k and can’t afford rent.

  • dvsbastard on 29/03/2024 - 20:23
    +4

    There is no single truth except if you are on a performance plan then you are on a long and painful path out (there are exceptions but they are very rare) so the best thing to do is to find something new so you can leave on your own terms.

    The only controversial thing I would add is to take an honest look at your performance and work out whether or not there is anything you need to improve on to be successful in your next role, because as harsh as this may sound, even the most incompetent of managers will have at least some reason to go down this path (it might not justify the whole being managed out process but there could be an area that warrants some improvement).

  • mousie on 29/03/2024 - 20:38
    +1

    Most of the advice here is missing the mark.

    What seems like a small things to you, may be a major thing for them, particularly if they are insecure in managing what they don't know or understand.

    But perceptions people make are usually just opinions, good or bad and they last.

    There is a protracted period in order to be performance managed out, usually by counter signing a performance improvement plan.

    This will signal that they don't want you to stick around or be set up for success. But if you agree to the outcomes and achieve them they have no cause for dismissal.

    If it's a personality clash, you can't solve it directly with the manager. I would make friends around them with other managers and just take the high road. Update LinkedIn and socials and wait for something better i.e. more money and or less scrutiny and you will be happier.

    Staying at the same place is good for a while but not common in our generation, more of a parents generation thing. Staying shows commitment but all you need to do is worry about your own goals and security, and providing for your dependents.

  • xsacha on 29/03/2024 - 21:38
    +4

    Something you may not have considered is that this new manager has a mandate to reduce staffing levels. They may have picked you for a particular reason that they never told you about. It might just be they believe they have too many people in your role.

    Since it is a larger company, they'll have a process for firing you which involves a PIP. All these issues they're telling you about are reasons to sack you, as required by the process.
    I fully believe they intend to fire you and are just following the process to do so.

    I've never been on one of these performance plans but I have been on the other side where we need an employee gone.

    Regardless of the reason, they fully intend to sack you and there is not much you can do. I would be looking for a new job.

    • May4th on 30/03/2024 - 09:55

      my thoughts too. it's not about micromanaging, it's just nitty picking looking for reasons to fire you without getting a Fairwork complaint

  • bamzero on 29/03/2024 - 22:18

    You should give her the internet to use in her meetings

    (Sorry, I have nothing useful to add)

  • nobro25 on 29/03/2024 - 22:31
    +2

    LOL! Seriously, you've been having it easy the entire time.
    Firstly it looks like you've been rocking up consistently 15-20 mins late and the previous boss didn't care. Late is late! I always rock up atleast 15-20 mins before my shift starts. Well that's also because my company provides Breakfast. Well that was my previous company, I still rock up 15-20 mins early to my new company. Its never been an issue.

    Secondly, it seems like you can't handle "real" stress. It's when unexpected work comes your way. This is the way with alot of companies now. I remember I used to work for company "X". The work is constantly monitored and you get a quality review of your work every two weeks and you get a report on what you have done well and what you can improve on. Breaks are allocated at specific times and there's a logger. of how many (calls/jobs) that you take everyday and that's part of your KPI.
    Get alot of complaints calls even though there's a separate department for it but sometimes when we're understaffed and the calls at back logged for 2 hours it really sucks.

    I left that company after 9 months, not worth it but I'm not going to fair work for all the unexpected things that was put for us. Not to mention the pay was abysmally low. Sub 60k.

  • baker bob on 30/03/2024 - 00:55
    +5

    In what corporate world do you work in that start times are tracked and people throw a tantrum over doctors appointments? I have no idea what time my staff start work and their leave is approved without question. They have delieverables, if they meet those, they can start whenever they want, take lunch whenever they want, do whatever the hell they want, just deliver the work to quality standards and on time.

    • gromit on 30/03/2024 - 06:58

      From the OP he is not meeting those deliverables though. When you fail to meet the work requirements, even when they are ridiculous, every little thing you are doing wrong suddenly comes into focus.

    • nobro25 on 02/04/2024 - 20:02

      Well It's one of the Biggest Bank in Australia. That should give you a clue. But once again I left because the work was a Joke. The Job is complete work from home and meet once a fortnight in the office. I get the monitoring because it's constantly busy as soon as 8:00 am hits. But the lunch breaks and mini 10 min breaks have slots and if you miss those slots and take a break after those slots it effects you KPI.

      Assignments can be anywhere from 2 mins for simple enquires to 2 hours if you're doing a joint application. None of this is planned , you get whatever call comes to you. You can't suddenly tell the customer, "Oh it's my break I'll call you back." You're not even meant to have outgoing calls only exception is if the call drops out and you call them back.

      KPI's are measured by the amount of incoming calls resolved and customer's feedback on the call. If a customer gives you a low feedback then you get counselling on your fortnightly report on how you can do better. Everything is so micromanaged and it's crap as.

  • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 03:00
    +6

    To all the devils advocates here, yes I do get to work late by your standards but I have never missed a meeting or made sure it has impacted a deadline. In all my jobs I have reported at 9:15 for the last 6 years since I have an issue with sleep apnea but I leave at 5:30 and even later so work hasn't been impacted. My past managers never raised an issue and they were cool with it.

    Also if this has been a problem a simple tap on the shoulder or a direct email mentioning reporting times would have been helpful, a direct meeting where a Performance management decision has been taken shows the naivety of said manager. It could have led us to a further conversation on how I could request of flexibility if possible. '

    I have been in the business for 15 years and I have had great relationships with my colleagues who can attest to my dependability and reliability as a co-worker.

    If a person who has no experience in Development suddenly becomes your manager this is what happens, a person working in Software development can attest to how wrong this decision could be. Also this said person has close ties with the CTO and CEO since this is a small start up. I feel like I should also baby sit the CTOs kids so I could make sure great moves in my career now.

    And finally I have decided to not accept the Performance management since it is like a slap in the face of my contributions and dedication to my work and it shows that no matter what my efforts will be taken for granted. Its better to resign and look for another job instead rather than work with an incompetent manager. Its not an easy market for IT but heck its not worth the mental trauma I might go through if I have to keep dealing with this manager.

    • infinite on 30/03/2024 - 05:38
      -4

      Hopefully the recruitment process for your current employer is quick and easy.

    • AEKaBeer on 30/03/2024 - 08:18
      +2

      It's the right choice, I've yet to see a pip that went well for the employee in the long run. Those that don't get fired rarely have any career advancement.

      • jace88 on 31/03/2024 - 00:33
        +1

        But it at least gives them a longer runway to find something decent, and hopefully get a decent reference too.

    • mousie on 30/03/2024 - 11:15
      +3

      Never underestimate the power of just following dumb procedural fairness protocols to end up with a nice juicy payout.

    • Zapwap on 01/04/2024 - 09:58
      +2

      Good on you, my best wishes with you mate.

      It still bothers me though, why would a manager want to get rid of a well experienced, well into project, employee like you over some easily fixable issues? Why would a manager rather jeopardise the project like that? You sure you're not missing something?

      • vvvv on 01/04/2024 - 10:10
        +6

        As I mentioned in the other threads, the manager promised certain features and in the middle of delivery we had to fix urgent issues the offshore team who were let go left behind for us. Despite flagging these repeatedly she expected us to complete the features in time which was not possible.

        In a companywide meeting last week she got cornered by sales, it was a meeting which we were told to sign off after we presented our dev work, where I understood the whole story since I just stayed on for a minute longer. Now she is trying to find scapegoats to get pressure off her aka me.

  • mrhugo on 30/03/2024 - 09:30
    +7

    This sounds unbearable. Get you resume updated and start applying for jobs.

    You'll probably get a jump in pay anyway.

  • LlamaLlamaLamp on 30/03/2024 - 10:36
    +1

    Bullying in the workplace. Serious issue. Speak to HR before going to fair work. Try and get everything in writing, particularly from your manager.

    • mousie on 30/03/2024 - 20:24
      +12

      HR only serves one purpose and that's to protect the reputation and risk for the business.

      Not provide equitable conditions for long standing employees.

      Complaining to HR has always been a waste of time in my experience.

      • LlamaLlamaLamp on 30/03/2024 - 21:39
        +1

        If what you're saying is true about HR protecting the reputation and risk of the business, then it'll be in their interest to remove the liability. In this case the liability is the manager. If this bullying lead to depression, self harm or suicide, the company would be liable. It's the company's responsibility to provide a safe work environment.

        If your experience complaining to HR has always been a waste of time, perhaps you're workplace isn't supportive and it's time to find another job?

    • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 20:38
      +4

      Yep this is bullying.

      The manager is under pressure from marketing since she promised them features that an already reduced capacity team cant deliver. Also a few unforseen issues came up from previous teams projects that needed to be dealt with urgently so that delayed things more. Now she cant handle the pressure herself and so she is taking it out on me.

      • LlamaLlamaLamp on 30/03/2024 - 21:47
        +3

        Definitely start storing emails that support your claim. If you feel comfortable enough, raise your concerns with her (via email) and see what her response is. Elicit specifics from her via email to support your claim.

        I don't know your exact situation but again, if you have enough of a report with her 1 up maybe speak with them.

        Either way, good on you for doing something about it. There's no place for bullying in the workplace. It's a serious issue.

        • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 22:04
          +6

          Yep. I am collecting all data points to disproove her claims that I might have missed deadlines. The chats and code checkins are all there along with timesheet entries to proove her wrong.

          Most of her teams chats are rambles of a teenage girl who has been spoilt by her father. There is a decorum a person in a higher position needs to follow which is totally absent in her tone.

          I had suggested 1v1s every week for feedback in case this situation arises, in previous 1v1s these issues were never brought up. Whenever I asked is there anywhere I need improvement, there were no comments from her or anyone else. So one sudden day she wakes up and decides I need to be on performance management.

          She has decided to blame it on me after marketing cornered her for giving idiotic deadlines and theres easy answer to whos at fault here.

    • pais on 31/03/2024 - 19:24
      +5

      Speak to HR before going to fair work. Try and get everything in writing, particularly from your manager.

      If he's PIP'd, HR is already involved. They'll be coaching the manager, not OP.

  • frugalftw on 30/03/2024 - 11:50

    You are in IT, it takes what, a couple phone calls to your recruiters to set up some interviews? This kind of workplace won’t get you to where you want to go anyway, be happy it showed up as soon as it did and move on.

    • pais on 31/03/2024 - 19:22
      +1

      You are in IT, it takes what, a couple phone calls to your recruiters to set up some interviews?

      This is not the same job market as 12 months ago.

      • frugalftw on 31/03/2024 - 20:37

        There’s no way people can stop paying for security-related services, even if iot dies. AI has opened plenty of opportunities as well. I can’t see a world where the ability to code and grasp complex systems is not in demand. Isn’t cash rewards hiring btw?

  • Hangryuman on 30/03/2024 - 12:52

    at a glance, I'd guess an uncomfortable feeling with a new manager is a sign to plan to move elsewhere - whether a sideways move within the organisation, or outside

    either way - cats and dogs often get into nasty spats

    I had a manager for year who made my skin crawl - he was a dog to my cat - women refused to work for him so it wasn't just me - I left and got a job elsewhere and it was like a great weight lifted off my shoulders - work became enjoyable again.

  • Ononono on 30/03/2024 - 13:59
    +8

    It's funny reading the comments, you can tell exactly who is a boomer and who isn't.

    • gromit on 02/04/2024 - 16:47

      Are there really that many Boomers on here? I suspect you are most likely projecting, the youngest boomer is 60, I can't think of many 60+ year olds that frequent forums though I am sure there are a few, would be interesting to see what the reality is.

      • miicah on 02/04/2024 - 20:41
        -1

        Boomer is a mindset, you can be 20 and act like a boomer.

  • OzzyBoy1 on 30/03/2024 - 15:00
    +3

    Used to work for not for profit organisation under pretty good manager. But management changed. They got new CIO in. They got rid of manager by what I believe is putting him under unreasonable expectations. He simply didn't want to stay there any longer. Meanwhile my company "purchased" another NFP as well. Then they started playing with my performance as well. I was put under performance review for absolutely no fault. Just general nit picking and all started. These were all signs that company didn't want me any longer and they didn't want to pay for letting people go most likely due to $$$. So instead they choose to "fire" people to avoid paying any compensation as they already short on $$. And Fairwork won't do anything. So lesson is to accept the fate and move on where you're respected as mature adult and not like 3 year old in kindy.

  • spoonmugen on 30/03/2024 - 19:57
    +3

    sounds exactly like my ex boss…

    do yourself a favour if you cant move to another dept or team get out… its not worth the stress

    i got out … and colleagues told me she was planning on firing me that day…

    about 12 months later she was put on performance revew herself and ppl started to speak up about her 'management; style / harassment and bullying…
    she was asked to 'leave' in the end… made a fantastic work place unbearable… and im sure its not feeling good to be put on a performance program…

    • vvvv on 30/03/2024 - 19:59
      +4

      Yep.. Not gonna stay for long here. Its not a good job market atm but still its best to leave with your head held high instead of being a victim of rotten msmanagement.

      • mousie on 30/03/2024 - 20:28
        +3

        The IT market is strong depending on your city.

        Particularly if you have ERP experience.

        I got hired and fired in the same week because I saw a warning shot from my original workplace.

  • Nebargains on 30/03/2024 - 20:13
    -7

    Honestly you sound like a poor employee who has gotten a persecution complex when pulled up on things.

    You come in late and think you are being unfairly targetted. You show no respect to your employer when it comes to arranging things during business hours, sure 2hrs for a blood test no big deal but you went and did it before speaking to your manager about taking time during business hours, you could have easily avoided that by paying your boss the courtesy of letting them know you needed to take time during business hours and then gone and made the appointment.

    Suspect we aren't hearing the whole story here and you are simply underperforming and don't realise it.

    • LlamaLlamaLamp on 30/03/2024 - 21:54
      +6

      lol where do you work? If I want to go to an appointment, I put it in my calendar and go. I'm not a child, my company knows I'm not a child. I'm not going to ask for permission like a child. White collar worker privilege babyyyyy!

    • spoonmugen on 01/04/2024 - 12:50
      +1

      depends on the company - if they have flexible working hours then put it in your calendar/marked as busy/away then work the hours when you get back…

  • DrRalph on 30/03/2024 - 20:26
    -1

    No.

  • MND on 30/03/2024 - 22:26
    +1

    With respect to sick leave and notice requirements Fair Work states, Notice must be given as soon as possible, this would mean if your required to get a blood test the next day and gave notice as you were informed, then that would be considered 'as soon as possible'. With regards to any appointments, you can also obtain a medical / attendance certificate.
    God help the company if something were to happen to you at work, because they needed sufficient notice and you were pressured to be at work.

    In relation to your Performance Management, if she wants to act like how she is then turn it back on her. Within your Performance Plan, place requirements of your manager: Feedback requirements, requirements relating to work times etc. This would mean your being proactive in advising her of what you require in order to perform at your best. Then when she decides to change her mind you have it in writing and in turn will affect her own performance.

  • serpserpserp on 30/03/2024 - 22:53
    -1

    Just find another job OZB answer to all job whinge posts

  • paulojr on 30/03/2024 - 23:15
    +1

    Ok firstly I cannot be sure from what you've said if your being unreasonable or not.. But I'll have a crack at adding to this.

    Firstly, taking time off for a blood test, out of respect if not requirement, tell your manager. Most managers are accountable for your physical safety, in an emergency (say building evacuation) they need to hunt everyone down and make sure they get out alive. If your disappearing without notice then that will be a reason to put you on performance management. If a manager has to constantly deal with one of the team that just won't give them basic respect thats a great reason to start performance management to get them ready for an exit.

    Now.. with that said I'd like to understand what kind of IT role it is.

    Reason is, if your in IT support then its all about the hours.. so a manage will expect specific hours because they will have service level agreements to respond to requests by a certain time. If your in this role, then they are right, met the hours and make sure you give clear advice before taking time off.

    on the other hand if your a developer,tester or any type of project resource then you need to be measured by the quality of your work, hours are not that important, developers do their best work at all sorts of hours, 2am was my sweet spot for great coding. Even in this role people need to scheduled meetings so you can't just ignore time scheduling but that wouldn't mean you had to be in at an exact time, clock in clock out thats 1940s thinking.

    i noticed you said she, is she also very young, e.g. less than 30 years old? We have noticed young managers especially female tend to be extra hard on their people and someones harder on females which seems strange but a pattern that often occurs possibly because its harder to get into management as a female and as such they expect more out of the other females. In any case it has to be addressed with training. I'd had to raise a complaint against another manager formally based on a candidate being told they had to attend a 8:30am standup every day (instead of taking their kids to school) and yet another asking a candidate if they'd choice work commitment over a family commitment, or not be hired. This stuff is not just unreasonable but illegal as it discriminates against families. We saw the same problem across a group of young managers, no clues at all about human rights and the law. Anyway not sure if you are facing this but just pointing it out.

    But its not uncommon in either younger managers or in non-IT managers that cannot measure quality as they don't get what is being built. You'll see they'll also think the work week for perms is 40 hours rather than 38. Dead giveaway of a manager that lacks an understanding of the people side of their role.

    My advise either way is don't mess up the performance management, do what is asked and if its a big company once your out of the performance management see if you can land with a manager that better suits you or if its a small firm go look for a new role but this time the interview has to be two way, where you assess the quality of the manager and companies training programs for managers. This also will help check your expectations because if no one gives you a job, then your expectations are too high.

    Also keep in mind research shows about 20% of leaders are technically classified as sociopaths who basically get off on putting others down. As such your going to find somewhere in your career you'll end up working for someone like this who will make you question your own sanity, especially if its in education or government roles, or in roles working with more senior leaders. You can either grow a thick skin or seek another role when in this situation, each person will handle it differently but I suggest never moving companies more frequently than 2 years if your applying for perm positions as your CV will scream out something is wrong when you apply to the next place.

  • mirz on 31/03/2024 - 10:58
    +3

    This kind of manager is generally hire to push people. They will create very toxic environment and you’ll see half of staff will leave within next 6 months.
    This way companies don’t need to pay redundancy packages.
    Company will restructure team after a certain time and that manager will move on.

    My advice is to start looking for a new job asap and don’t mention this to anyone in your company.

    More you’ll stay here, it’ll ruin your mental health.

  • matt26 on 31/03/2024 - 11:34
    +2

    Reading through this column i cant agree with alot of the advice, wont help you if you find the same situation at your next workplace. My advice is as follows… Step one find out what the manager expects from you, ie turning up on time etc and do it to the letter. Step 2 Dont whinge about it to your colleagues Step 3 wait for the natural changing of the seasons at work, the manager leaves, focus goes elsewhere etc. You'll be back with your old routine turning up at 9.15 in no time.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 02/04/2024 - 09:56
      +1

      Finally some common sense.

      Also, the manager promised features that weren’t feasible in the timeframe and may not have asked staff what realistically can be delivered. This should be her hill to die on.

  • BrokenChairs on 31/03/2024 - 12:20
    +2

    A few tips:

    • Consider what your contracted hours of work are. Are you working to those hours?

    • Request a flexible work arrangement e.g. 9:30-5:30pm. Ignore your manager's lateness, you can't control that - I also doubt the reason they're late is always coffee runs.

    • Consider how you communicate with your manager - it is not unreasonable to expect more than short term notice for planned leave during work time hours. This may be different to how a previous manager chose to manage the team, but that does not necessarily mean it's unreasonable.

    • Discuss workload issues with your manager - raise and document them as they arise (not after deadlines are missed). Note how many ad hoc urgent tasks are being given to you and how long they take to complete. Also note how much time is required to complete the major project (you may have been given a month to complete it, but it may take more or less time). Your manager has a responsibility to reasonably manage workload - however, you also have a responsibility to complete any reasonable requests or tasks allocated to you by your manager. Request assistance to complete certain tasks as reasonable.

    • If you have concerns, speak with your local union delegate for assistance or advice.

  • SupeNintendoChalmers on 31/03/2024 - 12:25
    +1

    Lawyer up, stat.

  • Wilson Wallace on 31/03/2024 - 15:03
    +3

    If I was in your position this is what I would do (coming from a Manager / Principal Engineer)

    • Make sure you take notes of all your meetings
    • Say nothing in MS teams and make sure everything is in email
    • Prioritise your work load as much as you can, notify your manager that you’ll be unable to get Y done due to escalation X - Make sure you also tell the PM of your projects that you need to take care of something else. CC the PM and your Manager.
    • Provide your manager an update on a daily basis (completed works etc)
    • how often do you have catchup meetings with your boss? If not often enough then you catch up with him/her and advise him/her about anything you wish to raise

    If you stay quiet, you won’t be heard. If she / he fails to take into consideration your feedback, go to HR and to your bosses boss and raise a complaint.

  • coolroy on 31/03/2024 - 15:44
    +3

    Starting late but still meeting the days goals should be fine with most modern managers.
    However if time lost due to your late starts impacts on meeting daily expectations then you deserve to be performance managed to the nth degree.

    I had a team member who was always late to arrive for work & that was when bundy clocks were the norm.
    However once at work he worked like a demon, no stopping for chats to others and quality of work was superb.
    I would rather have someone who works hard and to a high standard even with the late starts than the sort of person who clocks in early and then does the minimal amount of work he or she can get away with.

  • cnrmlj on 31/03/2024 - 18:20

    Why would you want to go to fair work first? Seems a tad rash unless there is more to it that you haven't disclosed.

    First choice would be have an adult conversation with the manager. Second, would be other departments (e.g. HR or Employee Relations) or higher managers you could discuss with.

  • MessyG on 31/03/2024 - 20:03
    +1

    OP you've got a few choices here.

    1. Set up a meeting with her and state that you feel it is unfair to go straight to a performance plan on issues that have not previously been flagged at all. Ask if you can set some goals together, and if you don't achieve those goals, then a performance plan will be appropriate. Accept that you may end up in performance management. Contrary to popular belief, it CAN be overcome, if you squeeze yourself into the round hole they now currently want from you. It means changing the way you've been doing things and this depends on how much you love this job. The manager is not going to change. You can either adapt, or not, which leads to …

    2. Start getting your referees together and start looking for a new job. You'll probably end up with a payrise and a fresh start. It takes a good 6 months to do this well, so you should probably do this as a backup plan.

    3. Talk to Fairwork. Which you probably already can just for some validation, but you really need to think about what it is that you want in the longer term. If you really love your current job, then be prepared to jump through whatever hoops they want you to jump through. If it's the work you love and can do elsewhere, then think about leaving. The mass attrition is what gets these managers moved on.

  • Cave Fire on 31/03/2024 - 20:49
    +1

    Kind of had a similar issue happen. Lived far away and would take 2.5 hrs minimum to get into Brisbane CBD. When something happened with traffic, I would be late 10-15 mins on occasion. Would always make it back up. One day I get called in and a receptionist/EA was noting whenever I was late and submitted this to the manager. 100% not her job role, guess she didn't like me lol.

  • hopper on 01/04/2024 - 00:21

    There is that ONE person in every team, you can either fight, or just start taking with them and become friends. Trust me I see them in every team (I'm a contractor). Make them friends, stay praising them in meeting and catch ups. Once they get positive on you. Your life becomes easy.
    Work life is too short to make enemies, it's always wise to concur others person ego with charm. Gd luck 🤞

    • vvvv on 01/04/2024 - 00:43
      +4

      Fyi I was on decent terms with this person. But since this person got under deep shit overcommitting work to others in the company she is trying to scapegoat me for her shortcomings.

      This is what happens when a person with no knowledge software development is given powers they shouldnt posses.

      • hopper on 01/04/2024 - 08:30

        I can feel your pain. Just make sure you satisfy / accept their ego. Once done he will become a normal person. I have dealt with many, arguing will make things worst.

        Rule no 1 : wife is always right in home. And a workplace colleague is never wrong, we just need to deal with them 😔

        • vvvv on 10/04/2024 - 15:15

          Yep. I shouldered some blame but made sure to convey that expectation werent set in the first place. So I couldnt live up to expectations which havent been communicated to me. They have been now so I guess I will be taking the train 20 mins early lol.

  • Dose Pipe Sutututu on 01/04/2024 - 01:16
    +2

    Find a new job, then convince your all colleagues to do the same.

    People quit/leave because of their manager, not their job.

  • ContinuousCustomer on 01/04/2024 - 06:49
    +5

    Engineering manager is a bs position. My perspective is an engineering manager needs to be a better developer than the people he manages plus having management skills. It’s very common for losers with no actual engineering skills to end up micromanaging because they don’t know shit.

    • vvvv on 01/04/2024 - 13:27
      +1

      Exactly! People who have not even written a single hello world program in their life have no business near IT software development and worst of all managing Senior devs.

  • jetM on 01/04/2024 - 11:44

    You need to watch a show called the IT Crowd. Sometimes life is the same as this.
    If you are a PiP there need to be clear measurable metrics that needs to be met.
    You should keep documentation of the hours you have worked plus any extra projects and hours
    needed so that when you go to HR you are in a defensible position. If you need to go the legal route
    then your case has to be watertight.

  • od810 on 01/04/2024 - 13:38
    +2

    Let's say if you win FairWork case, do you still want to work for that organisation? I am in the same industry, if i can't tolerate my manager, i will quit and find a new job. Similar with pay, if i am underpaid, don't wait for counter offer, seek it yourself. The software dev industry is fortunate enough that if you are half decent, you will get a job within a few weeks and generally with a better pay.

    It's very important to have a supportive manager for you to work effectively. In the past, i quit a job within 2 months, because my manager and I didn't have mutual respect for each other. There's no point to prolong a toxic relationship whether you come out as winner or loser. So do your due process with your current company and find a new one, that's the best course of actions for you.

  • chk on 01/04/2024 - 14:37

    Can I send you a DM with some general advice? I'm reluctant to post in a public forum due to trolls, specially onebed who have read my ozbargain posting history then incorrectly suggested I work for their competitors

    • vvvv on 01/04/2024 - 16:05

      Sure.

  • Eeples on 01/04/2024 - 16:53
    +2

    Going forward show up to work at 8.55am.

    Also never be late to meetings.

    Keep a log or your workload.

  • ChatCPT on 01/04/2024 - 21:54
    +1

    feels like youre being performance managed out

  • Jules_d1 on 02/04/2024 - 10:27
    +1

    All I can say is DOCUMENT EVERYTHING

  • bjt on 02/04/2024 - 10:38

    Join https://www.professionalsaustralia.org.au and submit a ticket !!!

    This is the BEST advice!!!

    You need assistance and only they can provide it for you.

    No one here can answer your questions as nearly as proficiently as Professionals Australia, they are the experts in this area.

  • ceroau on 02/04/2024 - 10:38
    +3

    So translation, you use to get away with whatever you want, and work on the things you want to work on and prioritize them how you saw fit, now a business manager is managing IT priorities from a business perspective not an IT perspective (this happens in lots of businesses) and wants you to work to a specific set of standard in a specific structure way opposed to the flexible unstructured working conditions you've been used too.

    Whether I agree with such rigid structured environments or not( I don't, flexible I think is more beneficial) it is her right as a manager to manage her team in that way. You're an adult, you know you don't have flexible work hours in your contract, so you know it wasn't the "rule" your old bosses just didn't care, it not her responsibility to point out the obvious. The more you drag your feet into adapting to her style of management the more you're going to struggle. Again I don't necessarily agree with her management style but it completely in her right to do so and thereby the company isn't breaking any kind of laws or policies that you could go to fairwork about. They've set a standard (whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant) you're failing to meet that standard so it within their right to put you on a performance plan.

    My advice, start applying for other jobs because whether your performance picks up or not, it doesn't sound like you want to work under her.

  • misu p on 02/04/2024 - 13:00
    +1

    I would leave but if you want to stay there you need to start documenting things. This is not only for this job, it is for your future too.

    For example, when you are asked to work on something urgent tell them your deadline will suffer because of it, put it in an email, and save it for later. When you are asked why a deadline was missed show them the email. You also need to start calculating "other work" when giving out deadlines, it is totally acceptable to say "I cannot deliver this in 1 month because in the last 3 months I was taken away from my usual work for 30% of the time, so I can only deliver this in 1.5 months. If you want me to deliver this in 1 month then these other things that I am usually doing have to stop.".

    When my boss asks me why I did not give him something, I can always pull out my list of things to do and show that his request is there but that I have other things that are more urgent that I am working on. I usually ask him to help me prioritize his work by pushing out something else. That is usually where things end, or he can tell me that I should not work on X right now and do his Y. Afterwards I communicate with the owner of X that I cannot get to his stuff done right now, I expect him to communicate to others about this. Sometimes X comes back from above that is more urgent… not a problem I communicate to my boss that fact (he knows about it already anyway).

    Regarding your doctor's appointment, just take half a day of sick leave. I mean it is such an easy thing to do and nobody will question it. It is sick leave by definition.

    I am middle management and the worst thing that can happen is to not know a deadline will be missed. You can clearly communicate both up and down this. People will understand your arguments, but if they figure out that a deadline will be missed 1 week before the deadline… then it is on you.

    The only request from our CEO is to give him information well in advance, if there is a 20% chance that a deadline is missed he needs to know about it ASAP, not after that 20% chance becomes 100%. I may be on 20%, somebody else may be at 20%, and all of a sudden he should prepare for it. If I keep my 20% secret and the other person does the same… the management will be blindsided when it happens. The blindside is what makes our CEO mad, not missing the deadline. If he knows about it in advance he can do something about it (change priorities for people, bring more people, communicate with others etc).

    Regarding showing up late… that is on you, but you can also show that you worked late sometimes. Again document things like this. It does not matter that your boss does it, your boss may work overtime without you knowing about it… get over it and either show that you work those hours or start showing up on time (and leaving on time too).

    So all your problems are handled by you communicating better and documenting things.

  • Fimbulvetr on 02/04/2024 - 13:11
    +2

    I think others here are alluding to this with some questions asked, but you do require active record taking, expectation setting and provide opportunities to improve in order to place someone on a PIP.

    It's entirely possible your manager might be doing so unreasonably, but you should consider what evidence of the above exists before you try to escalate the matter past them.

    Leadership training covers things like this, but in my experience this is equally important for an employee to learn as it helps hold their manager to task.
    If your manager has not set expectations, has not given you ample opportunity to adapt to them and has not communicated this regularly, then yeah. You might want to start gathering your evidence together to escalate.

    The shitty thing imo is that the bridge is burned at that point, the support of your business will define what happens next. You could be transferred to another area of the business if applicable, or assigned someone else to report to.
    If you get a new job, prep that evidence anyway for your exit interview because you might not be the only one having friction with that manager.

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