Can You Take The Learner's Theory Test and Then Later The Practical License Test if You Can't Read? (SA)

AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 15:46
Last edited 09/04/2024 - 15:47

Asking for a friend. They are a permanent resident, they are married to an Australian. They speak Thai and speak very poor English. Well the English isn't all that bad, but you basically need to be familiar with their Engrish to talk to them properly, which takes time. They also can't read any language, not English or Thai. They have a Thai scooter license so though that's no good in Australia it is encouraging.

Anyway I've been Googling and can't seem to find info on whether they can take the theory learner's test, let alone the VORT or CBT.

I do see this page https://www.dit.sa.gov.au/ontherighttrack/your_licence/getti…. mentions that a translator is provided for free on the first learner's theory test attempt, but guessing this is only for Indigenous drivers?

Also wondering if getting a license if you can't read is folly or not. Info out there suggests you don't need to read, you just need to be able to understand the road signs.

My hunch is that this person with enough practice and lessons, maybe many thousands of dollars of lessons if a Thai instructor can be found, could get their license. Their Thai friends here seem to think it's impossible. I know a lot of people who married Thai people 🤷‍♂️

Being illiterate is probably the biggest barrier really..

Automotive Driver's Licence

Comments

  • sharkyoz on 09/04/2024 - 15:47
    +53

    If you cant read, how are you going to negotiate the amount of signs on the road?

    • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 15:49

      Indeed. But you can still visually recognise the signs yeah? If you know numbers, which they do at least, then what sign that comes up on a test route is going to give you trouble if you can recognise what the sign is visually?

    • jv on 09/04/2024 - 15:51
      +3

      how are you going to negotiate the amount of signs on the road?

      Google Lens

      • Murkymerv on 09/04/2024 - 19:45
        +3

        Relax JV , half of the foreign people on the roads today cant read either . Original poster , should fit in quite well .

        • jv on 09/04/2024 - 20:37

          half of the foreign people on the roads today cant read either

          why not?

          • Murkymerv on 09/04/2024 - 20:51
            +7

            @jv: Great question , let me know when you find out .

          • LFO on 10/04/2024 - 11:13

            @jv:

            why not?

            Appalling literacy level for the masses.

          • R4 on 10/04/2024 - 14:14

            @jv: Because English requirements for migration purposes only apply to people of certain ethnicities. Hell, a lot of international students have very poor English and shouldn't be here.

            • jv on 10/04/2024 - 14:22
              +2

              @R4:

              Hell, a lot of international students have very poor English and shouldn't be here.

              How do they complete their courses ?

              • R4 on 10/04/2024 - 14:24
                +5

                @jv: Group assignments with team members chosen by the lecturer. The English speakers carry the others through. All know about and condoned by university management.

                • jv on 10/04/2024 - 14:24

                  @R4: What about during exams ?

                  Are the questions "recognised by shape and colour." ?

                  • CommuterPolluter on 11/04/2024 - 22:52

                    @jv: Exams account for a small amount of the marks across all subjects. Huge push towards assignment-based grading.

              • MementoMori on 11/04/2024 - 00:06

                @jv: $cash$ for assignments (or exam 'sit in') is well known within Melbourne CBD. There are flyers with services offered around the place. Even with photo ID people can't tell.

    • boomramada on 09/04/2024 - 15:57
      +1

      99% of the signs aren’t written in English. There are people here with international driving licenses, they don’t need to learn English.

      • jv on 09/04/2024 - 15:57
        +3

        99% of the signs aren’t written in English

        Proof ?

        • boomramada on 09/04/2024 - 16:00
          +1

          okie, I was wrong, 1% after going through all the Melburne parking signes :)

      • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 15:58

        Yeah that's what I thought, there's people who have license agreements who don't speak English who drive here. Thailand doesn't have any license agreement at all, otherwise they could just go to Thailand and bribe someone for a license…

        • jv on 09/04/2024 - 16:00
          +7

          A large number of street and road signs are in English…

          • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:02
            -4

            @jv: How many of them can't be learned just from the colour and shape, and how many of them do you need to know to pass the test? Like road narrows, or merge ahead, even if I stole all those signs off a road you would still be able to drive on that road yeah? You'd still merge instead of just driving onto the curb.

            • SlickMick on 10/04/2024 - 08:19
              +10

              @AustriaBargain: I agree that signs are recognised by shape and colour. I doubt that reading English is necessary to drive.
              But I don't like how you're only focussed on passing the test - I'd prefer drivers to be competent as well as licensed.

            • stringbean402 on 11/04/2024 - 10:55
              +2

              @AustriaBargain: It's a fair point, I can go to Germany, France, Spain, Poland etc and I am allowed to drive.

              I don't speak their language but I can figure out the gist of their road signs and become more proficient as time goes by. I don't see how this is any different.

              Just because your friend is illiterate does not make them stupid. With enough lessons and proper instruction there is no reason your friend cannot be a safe driver.

              Say I had to go to Japan and figure out/memorize a certain amount of Kanji for their road signs, this is no different.

        • Mechz on 09/04/2024 - 16:02
          +1

          That's probably a big part of the reason we don't have an agreement with that government.

      • pharkurnell on 09/04/2024 - 16:01
        +4

        …. and they cant drive for shit either.

      • R4 on 10/04/2024 - 14:17

        On Indian Ocean Drive a lot of the road signs are in English and Chinese as so many tourists have killed themselves and others.

    • altomic on 09/04/2024 - 16:41
      +11

      I had a japanese drivers license when i lived in Japan. I couldnt read Japanese

      • morse on 09/04/2024 - 18:34
        +4

        Have also driven in Japan without issue. I don’t speak or read Japanese.

    • morse on 09/04/2024 - 18:33
      +1

      Google maps with audio plus visual recognition of signs like stop, give way etc. not saying it’s ideal, but I think possible. I’m sure there are plenty of people with dyslexia who drive.

    • bdl on 09/04/2024 - 20:04

      With VTEC

  • Enterz on 09/04/2024 - 16:12
    +8

    I'd get them an electric bike and some basic reading lessons

    • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:13
      -2

      They do have a 50cc scooter here and ride in on the dl in backstreets.

      • Enterz on 09/04/2024 - 16:17

        I'd be super careful about that, you can get deported (tho prob not first time caught.) https://migrationalliance.com.au/immigration-daily-news/entr…

        • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:17

          Even if the are married to an Australian?

          • Enterz on 09/04/2024 - 16:18

            @AustriaBargain: According to that linked story, yes

              • apsilon on 09/04/2024 - 16:26
                +11

                @AustriaBargain: What about if they hit someone and either cause an injury and/or property damage?

                • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:29

                  @apsilon: Yeah it is foolish. They don't actually use their bike much, most of the time they will walk or have a mate pick them up.

                  • apsilon on 10/04/2024 - 09:43
                    +4

                    @AustriaBargain: Bit more than foolish, it's potentially life altering for all involved.

            • Ridiculous Panda on 09/04/2024 - 19:29
              +3

              @Enterz: That guy was caught three times though.. obviously has no respect to law enforcement. Yeah a bit harsh since he has 5 kids but no sympathy for that kind of attitude when he isn’t even a citizen yet.. imagine what he would after becoming a citizen?

              • AustriaBargain on 10/04/2024 - 09:49

                @Ridiculous Panda: That's another thing, my friend wants to become a citizen and qualifies for the test, but can't read the test. My parents and grandparents did the citizenship test back when there was no test, it was just something you applied for and got. My grandmother couldn't speak or read English either and became a citizen.

                • OzBarAnon on 12/04/2024 - 10:20

                  @AustriaBargain: In my opinion, citizenship should not be granted to anyone who isn't at least close to fluent to a/the local language.

        • gyrex on 10/04/2024 - 10:32
          +7

          What a pillar of society this scumbag turned out to be. If the guy is flagrantly breaking laws while he's not a citizen, it's a pretty good indicator he'll give even less of a stuff when he becomes one. I wish our immigration department and government took a harder line and booted people like this out and protected its citizens, environment and society and let more deserving and law abiding people in.

          https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/news/media-releases/2021/epamedia210827-drone-surveillance-leads-to-$270000-in-penalties-for-pollution-offences

          https://archive.md/NtfQH

          Edit: Any ideas on why the epa article isn't converting to a link?

          • R4 on 10/04/2024 - 14:20
            +3

            @gyrex: That's because our immigration system is a clown show. It's designed to benefit certain migrants and not Australian society.

          • JediNite77 on 11/04/2024 - 06:14
            +1

            @gyrex: Yeah, just Google his name (Fouad Arja) and see all the wonderful things he has done since.

        • MementoMori on 11/04/2024 - 00:09
          +1

          He was busted 3 times first…

    • eftpos on 10/04/2024 - 08:54

      Exactly: https://www.readingwritinghotline.edu.au

  • 87percent on 09/04/2024 - 16:12

    I’m pretty sure my uncle was given the book in Chinese to learn, and managed to pass the learners test. He never took the P’s test though

    • SyntaxTerror on 09/04/2024 - 19:35
      -5

      How exactly is the Chinese book going to help here?

    • Agret on 09/04/2024 - 21:22
      +2

      OP said their friend is illiterate and can't read any of the languages they speak. Kinda sounds like they shouldn't be on the road…

    • fatbeer on 10/04/2024 - 11:44
      +4

      For a while, the correct answers for the NSW RTA online Learner's Test in Chinese was just the longest answer for each question. This has changed now though I believe.

  • Benoffie on 09/04/2024 - 16:14
    +12

    The part of the Act that applies is this:

    46—Examination of applicant for licence or learner's permit

    https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/__legislation/lz/c/r/motor…

    (iii) if the person is, by reason of impairment, unable to take the examination in writing—

    (A) orally in the English language; or
    (B) in such other manner as may be approved by the Registrar;

    or if the person's principal language is not English and the person's understanding of English is not adequate to enable the person to take the examination in writing in English—

    (A) orally or in writing (as required by the Registrar) in the person's principal language; or
    (B) in such other manner as may be approved by the Registrar.

    • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:17
      -2

      Dang, Benoffie here citing the laws. I'm guessing getting a Thai translator isn't cheap and if only the first one is free then it could get expensive. But it looks like given enough practice and money there is a path for an illiterate person with very little English to get a license. Finding a testing person who speaks Thai also might be a challenge..

      • Benoffie on 09/04/2024 - 19:33
        +3

        My question to Service SA would be can a friend translate or does it have to be a recognised translator?

        If the former, I'd assume thatd be pretty easy to sort out. But if the latter, youd have to book someone

        https://translate.sa.gov.au/interpreting-services

        • iCandy on 10/04/2024 - 07:32
          +8

          Don’t think they could have a friend translate as that friend could give them the answers.

        • gromit on 10/04/2024 - 15:05

          Would be no chance of a friend on something like this. MY wife is not a native speaker and even though she can translate and speak english well she was not permitted to translate for her friend and any letter or document also had to be translated by an official translator. Otherwise whose to say you didn't just bring someone in that knows the answers to do the test for you.

  • jellykingdom on 09/04/2024 - 16:20
    +20

    I'm going to shake the cage here…

    Why on earth should we be giving PR to someone who literally can't read, even in their own language??

    • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:24

      Growing up in a village in Thailand, maybe dyslexic, maybe the opportunity just wasn't there. According to stats most people in Thailand can read, though I wonder how accurate those stats are. Anyway this person has worked in Australia for decades, paying taxes here for decades, cleaning up after rich kids in private schools. Wanting a driver's license doesn't seem like a big ask. I'm sure there's people who will drive worse that managed to get their license.

      • Euphemistic on 09/04/2024 - 16:32
        +14

        Trying no tot pass judgement, but permanent resident? i would have thought anyone living here permanently should be aiming to be competent in english enough to pass a licence test.

        • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:36
          -2

          Well their partner didn't bother learning Thai either, but if they did then I bet their English would be even worse now that I think about it.

          • Benoffie on 09/04/2024 - 19:38

            @AustriaBargain: Are they Thai or Karen (or even Hmong or Lisu)?

            I ask because knowing the Karen community in Adelaide, this issue is extremely common.

          • FlyingMiffy on 11/04/2024 - 10:38
            +1

            @AustriaBargain: So you are saying neither of them can speak english or thai well enough to speak to each other… and they are married?? OK…

            • AustriaBargain on 11/04/2024 - 10:46

              @FlyingMiffy: Well he's actually quite good at understanding her English. He knows that "pepicity" is "electricity", and her close friends know it means electricity. He knows what she's saying 100% of the time. She always keen to speak English, it really isn't so bad, she can speak English, it just hasn't improved over the years like you'd expect. Worked here for decades, with other Thai people. Could she talk to a stranger on the street? Probably not a deep conversation. Her Thai friends all speak quite good English, almost all her friends anyway, some of them speak worse.

        • iCandy on 10/04/2024 - 07:34

          Especially after living here for decades!

      • kiitos on 10/04/2024 - 08:14

        How did the two of them meet?

      • jackspratt on 10/04/2024 - 13:20

        According to stats most people in Thailand can read, though I wonder how accurate those stats are.

        Quite accurate.

      • Zapwap on 12/04/2024 - 11:43

        Anyway this person has worked in Australia for decades

        There's no other reason other than they having a medical condition and sort of not able to learn any language excusable here, especially after living in the country for over a decade.

        • AustriaBargain on 12/04/2024 - 11:47

          Well I suppose they live a fairly insular life. The people they know are mostly other Thais from temple. The people they work with are other Thai people. The husband not the most social person so they don't hang out a lot with other people who don't speak Thai. They probably should have made different choices decades ago to integrate with English speakers and readers better, but oh well. We are all victims of circumstance.

    • boomramada on 09/04/2024 - 18:02
      +1

      they are married to an Australian

      Perhaps you better learn to read …

    • SlickMick on 10/04/2024 - 08:23
      +1

      I have a better question: why should being able to read have anything to do with getting PR?

      • boomramada on 10/04/2024 - 09:56

        I think dude is confused, PR != Citizenship

    • CommuterPolluter on 11/04/2024 - 22:54

      That’s the perfect migrant for our system.

      Can’t read: won’t read the EBA.
      Grew up in a village: won’t unionise.

      Amazing. If only we had more like her, I could buy my 10th house.

    • bp2000 on 12/04/2024 - 10:17

      To create the next generation of tax payers 😉🤣

  • rumblytangara on 09/04/2024 - 16:25
    +9

    They also can't read any language, not English or Thai. They have a Thai scooter license so though that's no good in Australia it is encouraging.

    Wow, I hope this is a wind up.

    So all the street signs are mystery coloured shapes, and they are used to riding a moped in a country famous for insanely dangerous driving.

    • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 16:28
      -1

      I've seen some of their practice at writing and reading and they have tried to learn. Personally I think their partner should have spent serious money teaching them English, but oh well.

      • Ridiculous Panda on 09/04/2024 - 19:35
        +3

        They/them/their?!

        • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 19:35

          I don't want to be too specific. But I mean, it's obviously a woman.

          • Ridiculous Panda on 09/04/2024 - 19:39
            -1

            @AustriaBargain: Not sure how saying she/her when referring to a woman is any specific..
            For the record, I wouldn’t mind if it was a he.. it is just this stupid “I would like to be addressed by they/them” that triggers me :)

            • AustriaBargain on 09/04/2024 - 19:49
              +3

              @Ridiculous Panda: Well it's not to do with identity politics, I just want to keep it vague so they are less identifiable.

      • iCandy on 10/04/2024 - 07:36
        +4

        So your friend had enough money to buy a Thai wife but not enough to support her?

        • jackspratt on 10/04/2024 - 13:30
          -5

          Careful - your bigotry is showing.

        • jackspratt on 11/04/2024 - 01:16
          -1

          And not just you, it seems.

    • minty on 09/04/2024 - 17:32
      +1

      To be fair there's not that many variations of words on signs, learning two dozen persistent words wouldn't be a challenging endeavour. The complex multi layer condition parking signs however, would require a degree.

  • Dollar General on 09/04/2024 - 16:50
    -6

    I’m sure in today’s woke world anything is possible

    • soan papdi on 09/04/2024 - 17:50
      +9

      How's this different to international tourists driving in countries like China, France or Italy? Not all signs are in English. Is that "woke" too?

      • rumblytangara on 12/04/2024 - 08:26

        Have you ever tried driving a rental car in China? I sure AF would not try to do it. I used to live there, and don't even know anyone foolish enough to try renting a car- you always rent a car and a driver.

        France, Italy, most European countries have similar road behaviours as Australia. Even if they drive on the wrong side of the road. Though I've had some interesting experiences on busy Italian roads.

        Road behaviour in Thailand is nothing like driving in Western Europe or Australia. If you ever take a car out of Phuket to anywhere more remote, a fun game to play is "count the overturned rusted wrecks by the side of the road."

  • trustnoone on 09/04/2024 - 17:06
    +2

    Interestingly in NSW you may be able to go the DLAP route, I wonder if SA has something similar (though I couldn't find anything)

    Why do we need DLAP?

    Some people face extra barriers when completing the licence process. DLAP was put in place to help keep everyone on the road safe, increase mobility and improve licensing access for communities who may be disadvantaged.

    These barriers include:

    • lower reading, writing and maths skills when learning the road rules

    https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/driver-…

    Whoa, this led me into a bit of a rabbit hole, for example there is a "BARA BARANG GET LICENSED, GET LEGAL, GET WORK PROGRAM" to help people learn literacy AND drivers licence at the same time:

    The purpose of this program is to help you with the literacy, numeracy and computer skills needed to pass the Driver Knowledge Test (the first stage in getting a driver licence to obtain a Learner Driver Licence). This program will help you understand and test your knowledge of the Road Users Handbook whilst developing your literacy skills at the same time.

    You can also get a free interpreter if your friend is from a different language environment and need it

    A free interpreter service is available to people who need to take the test in other languages. Please call 13 22 13 to arrange an interpreter.

    You can even get them to read it and explain it to you :O

    Additional needs – If you have trouble reading the test questions, our staff can assist by reading the questions and explaining them for you if there are staff members available at the time. Please let staff know ahead of time if you require this assistance. https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/driver-…

    I imagine the last one should be available in every state, so worth asking what additional needs are available in SA

  • mskeggs on 09/04/2024 - 17:08
    +9

    All the people here freaking out have never visited a non-english speaking country? And never driven there?

    How would you catch a train in Thailand if all the words are just squiggles? You ask people, and seek out the squiggles that match the ones for your destination.

    How would you drive? You memorise stop, give way, no overtaking etc.

    You don't need to be able to read a billboard or carpark entry conditions to drive safely.

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