Why Aren't There Any Black Market Alcohol Shops Like There Are Cigarette Shops?

BGK on 08/03/2025 - 21:31
Last edited 09/03/2025 - 11:50 by 1 other user

Black market imported cigarettes and tobacco are easily purchased at many shops for much less than legit tobacco as the price of legit ciggies has risen to the point that few can afford them.

With the alcohol excise increasing every year as well as Australia being one of the most expensive countries to buy alcohol in why aren't there shops around that sell home brewed beer or home distilled spirits.

I'd imagine there would be a massive market for cheaper beer and spirits.

Sure you can brew or distill your own, but you could also grow a plant in your backyard.

Raising the prices so that few people can legally obtain these items is clearly not working and the government is missing out on the GST from sales of legit products.

Food & Grocery

Comments

  • gromit on 09/03/2025 - 14:52

    Black Market Alcohol and tobacco have always existed, even back in the 80's and 90's when a pack of cigarettes wasn't insanely expensive. people will always search for cheaper even if the tax is relatively low it is always too much.

    • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 00:51

      back in the 80's and 90's

      at one point I ran a small Tobacco ring.
      the boys in the bottle-o were tasked with using the cigarette machine for drive-through customers.
      it was an old run-down machine. we worked out if you pushed the button just right you could get a pack of ciggies and not get charged.

      put in twenty, push button carefully, get winnie blues, get twenty back.

      i got so good at it, one time i got seven packs, for twenty bucks.
      we were selling packs to locals in the public bar for half price.
      told the boss, he didn't care, it wasn't his machine. he just wanted a share of the profits.

  • belongsinforums on 09/03/2025 - 15:38

    obvious answer: poisoning
    creative answer: yOu Have tO teLl mE if yOurE a cOp. swEar oN the bibLe!

    • Mikeer on 09/03/2025 - 23:32

      If you ask a cop if he’s a cop then he has to tell you. It’s in the Constitution.

      • BewareOfThe Dog on 10/03/2025 - 12:42

        Not if he's under cover.

      • derrida derider on 10/03/2025 - 18:19

        Where do people get this crap from? Quote me the section of the Australian Constitution that says this - you can't.

        • garage sale on 12/03/2025 - 20:34

          distillation is an ATO thing and above a certain size still you are supposed to pay tax, you can fill up the 5L home legally still as often as you like , at that size ATO says kts not commercial qty,

  • witsa on 09/03/2025 - 15:42
    +6

    Alcohol isn't really that expensive. What's expensive is drinking alcohol at a licensed venue.

    • snappy1234 on 09/03/2025 - 16:00

      And some of the staff were STILL not paid for hours worked correctly.

      Plenty of venues manage OK strangely.

  • V2L on 09/03/2025 - 15:56

    goonbags are cheap even with tax…people on welfare can afford them. seems like a lot to risk to making a few bucks with home made moonshine and ending up with manslaughter charges, even if you can find someone stupid enough to buy them

  • zubzub on 09/03/2025 - 17:12

    Probably because you can buy cheap alcohol legitimately whereas all legit ciggas are an absolute ripoff. A pack of 25 that cost $7 25 years ago is now almost $60.

  • Atomik17 on 09/03/2025 - 18:30
    +1

    Brother, just drink Rakija!

  • NevC on 09/03/2025 - 18:49
    -1

    Eighteen cents a pack of ten, for smokes when I was 15. Two cents for a box of matches.

    • Mikeer on 09/03/2025 - 23:34

      I remember when you used to be able to get a Hershey for a nickel!

      • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 00:56

        eldest brother carried twenty cents emergency money traveling to school alone when he was five.
        one day the older kids told him school was cancelled while they were waiting for the train.
        he believed them and on the way home he spent his emergency money on a large bag of dims sims. (6 or 8?)

  • mitt on 09/03/2025 - 19:07

    You gotta have mates that have a hobby still.

    Someone I knew had a still while in uni, made out of a 50L beer keg with a residental hot water system element threaded in. Full on fractioning still, had the temp probe in the column & controlled it with an arduino & relays. Was pushing the edges of what you could do without dessicants/wacky lab grade stuff.

    Problem is it takes effort to do right so if you are poor enough to want cheap booze you end up just buying goon bags instead. Plus the cleaning. You are constantly cleaning everything. Its a huge PITA. There would be enough margin to do black market booze if you were competing only against spirits, but you are competing against goon.

    Its a niche for the kind of people who run a still for fun or are poor for now like uni students.

    • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 01:00

      i waiting for my chemical engineer mate to finally retire so he gets serious about his plan to make vodka.

  • garage sale on 09/03/2025 - 21:33

    lots of home brew beer kits around cost about $1 litre the batch i made so about 40c stubby, coopers even sell kits in supermarkets, not sure at that price how much of a market exists for black market beer, beer ….. black market beer for 30c stubby vs 40c legal home brewed ? doubt black market can make if for 30c a stubby due to cost of the barley.

  • rhino86 on 10/03/2025 - 00:00

    cole and woolie have been removing coopers beers and other kits around my area.

    • stewy on 10/03/2025 - 18:37

      I think it's also reflective of changing tastes, a kit can and sugar or dextrose is some of the crappiest home brew you can make in my opinion. Coles haven't stocked for a long time near me and Woolies range was limited and not that great priced, so I either just to the local brew shop or order online since I am going to need to go elsewhere to get speciality ingredients anyway.

  • Seraphin7 on 10/03/2025 - 09:45

    The main reason there's not a significant black market for booze is that there is always cheap goon available at the local bottle shop.

    I agree that the prices for many "every day" drinks like cartons of mass produced beer, lower end spirits and the like have got ridiculous in recent years (not to mention some of the more premium offerings). But you can always find something that will get anyone with a less than rhinocerine alcohol tolerance absolutely trolleyed for little more than $10 (or less).

  • THICKnSLOW on 10/03/2025 - 10:41

    Grow plants to make ethanol for cheap shots? Steady on

  • trapper on 10/03/2025 - 12:26
    +2

    People who want homebrew can already make their own easily and legally.

    However, just like black market cigarettes, those wanting black market alcohol are likely after well-known brands rather than homemade brews.

    That means it has to be smuggled into the country - something much harder to do with alcohol due to its bulk and weight. Cigarettes are far easier to smuggle.

    • trongy on 12/03/2025 - 08:43

      Also, black markets tend to appeal to people with addictions. For alcoholics, cheap wine has the legal lowest cost per unit of alcohol. It would be hard for black market spirits to compete with legal wine on a cost per unit of alcohol basis.

  • Blokeinhisundies on 10/03/2025 - 16:04
    +1

    Guy at work has a still and charges a few of us $20/litre for booze and that is mostly pure profit. Besides sugar and a time spent cleaning it's pretty cheap to produce a fair bit of base spirits. It's not gonna win any awards obviously but it is good enough to mix with coke etc. Compared to some of the absolutely shocking home brew beer people have given me it is top shelf lol.

    I've also seen him running the still, pouring off the ethanol and measuring the alcohol content so I know he's not gonna make me literally blind. In comparison there are people at work I wouldn't trust if they were selling me a legit bottle that was still sealed.

    • Cluster on 11/03/2025 - 00:03

      People who distill alcohol should keep it to themselves and tell no one. Selling it is just stupid. All it takes is for a disgruntled coworker to dob in the seller and they're up on multiple charges, including tax fraud.

      Measuring the alcohol content makes no difference to the safety of the product. The producer needs to pour off the appropriate amount of foreshots before measuring anything except temperature.

  • smigglejiggle on 10/03/2025 - 16:42
    +1

    Black market alcohol has way more risk. posining etc

  • Cluster on 10/03/2025 - 18:04

    It's easy to brew your own beer, even make your own wine. Distilling is illegal, but it occurs more than you think.

    Growing your own tobacco requires, time, land, effort, and most importantly: seeds.

    The reason why there are illegal tobacco stores and not for alcohol is the ease with which alcohol is made for people who want it.

    • buckerooni on 12/03/2025 - 21:17

      distilling is illegal?! not in victoria

  • ATTS on 10/03/2025 - 19:57

    How much chraper are those cigarettes and fr what country

    • smigglejiggle on 11/03/2025 - 12:48

      $7.00 /Pack

      • ATTS on 11/03/2025 - 13:21

        Thanks so cheap

        Anybody know good cheap cigarettes like that in nsw

        • tenpercent on 11/03/2025 - 14:34

          I don't think anyone is stupid enough to dob in their source of cheap cigarettes in a public forum.

          • ATTS on 11/03/2025 - 19:44

            @tenpercent: How do they usually find their source to buy btw? Thinking to just go around asking

            • Spookware on 13/03/2025 - 11:12

              @ATTS: Hang out at the smokers area, ask and you shall receive.

  • Alley Cat on 10/03/2025 - 23:05

    How do you know if you are buying smuggled cigarettes? I did a run for a neighbour two weeks ago, as they were too depressed to leave the house. I tried to pay using card, the girl said $3 surcharge for card payments (for $15 purchase) with a straight face lol So I paid her cash. It looks like a candy shop too. There's a weird vibe about the place I just can't shake. First time ever buying cigarettes too, don't know what to expect.

    • Cluster on 10/03/2025 - 23:59
      +3

      How do you know? Oh, it's pretty simple: If the packet is not in plain dark green packaging, it's smuggled into Australia. No exceptions.

      No, you're not buying cigarettes from a carton that someone paid duty on when they brought it with them into the country. That is obvious.

      • Alley Cat on 12/03/2025 - 10:13

        I didn’t see the box it came out of, it’s a red box that says ‘Manchester’.

        • Cluster on 12/03/2025 - 16:39

          Red Manchester packet means it's an illegal import. If it was legal it would be drab dark green with health warnings all over it. And it would cost over $30.

          • Alley Cat on 12/03/2025 - 16:56

            @Cluster: Damn I was happy to not have to look at meth teeth lol Good on the neighbour for finding a cheap place I guess. Don’t think they could afford twice that much on disability.

            • Cluster on 13/03/2025 - 09:28

              @Alley Cat: And that's the whole point of plain packaging with those hideous images. It's meant to be revolting to get people to stop smoking them. And the price? Yes, it's meant to be ridiculous. A friend smokes (no idea why) and he's always complaining about debt. Yet he can regularly find $50 for one packet of cigarettes. Insane.

    • trongy on 12/03/2025 - 08:24

      The minimum excise is $1.40 per stick which comes out at $28 for a pack of 20. Also there's 10% GST on top of the total price.

      There's no way a $15 pack of cigarettes is legal.

      • Alley Cat on 12/03/2025 - 10:17

        Wow that is a lot of tax! I can see why anyone would want to smuggle them lol My mind immediately wanted to start a spreadsheet on flight and cigarette cost to find the countries with the highest pay off 😅

        • Cluster on 12/03/2025 - 16:42
          +1

          I was in Ukraine (pre 2022) where a packet of Marlboro Reds cost $1.50 from major supermarkets. A friend who smokes said they were very rough and tasted like cigarettes for the Soviet iron man.

          Yes, buy for $1.50 and sell for $10+ here. That's why people smuggle cigarettes.

  • rhino86 on 10/03/2025 - 23:24
    -1

    imodium

  • freefall101 on 11/03/2025 - 13:04
    +1

    You can setup a business in Australia and sell up to the $350k excise remission cap (so effectively don't pay any excise). It's what these guys do in Queensland

    The problem is a logistics one though. A $1 pack of cigarettes can be sold for $10-15 (compared to $50 retail) and is tiny. Whereas a $5 bottle of vodka will realistically only sell for $20-25 on the black market (compared to $40 retail) and takes up much more space and is more delicate.

    It's also that the government has been lax on tobacco and it's a game of whackamole. Little tobacco shops are everywhere, there aren't little booze shops everywhere to sell through. It'd be easier to do a black market on many other goods that are cheaper overseas (clothing, for example) than alcohol.

  • Donmega123 on 11/03/2025 - 13:54

    Man every Italian in Australia has a few bottles of illicit grappa in their house. I have heard that Chinese cooking wine is actually drinking wine from a very senior member of the tax department.

    • JIMB0 on 11/03/2025 - 23:15

      The cooking wine is far too salty to drink.

      • Donmega123 on 12/03/2025 - 10:48

        Have a taste of the it next time you are cooking, common misconception it has salt added. I'm not sure about those 44 gallon drums full of brandy for Christmas cakes though.

        • JIMB0 on 12/03/2025 - 11:45

          I tried it, full of salt. It's even listed on the ingredients. I'll keep an eye out for one without salt.

  • MITM on 11/03/2025 - 17:19

    Buy wooden barrels from the spirits importers. They usually sell them for authentic bar tables or gardening pots.

    Add a few litres of water and some sugar. Lay the barrel on its side and slowly rotate/roll along the ground over a period of weeks or longer till fully rotated.
    This has drawn all the liquor including the alcohol from the timber and "flavoured" the water.
    Now filter the solution through fine material, several times if necessary as the solution will also contain ash from the timber.
    (The barrel is flamed during manufacturing to make it water-tight.)
    Pour the filtered solution into 4 ltr glass flagons for storage and enjoy on the rocks or with your favorite mixer.

    I can attest to this method of moonshine. My Dad made gallons from rum, burbon & tequila barrels and stored them in the loft. Little did he know as a teenager I would take them to Saturday night gatherings with my friends who would bring the mixers.

    Afterwards my Dad would cut the barrels in half and sell them as planter pots - they were all the rage at the time - which bought us a family caravan.
    My Dad - the OG Ozbargainer

    • Cluster on 11/03/2025 - 17:31
      +1

      A few points of question here. There seems to be a step missing. Does the water/sugar mix then ferment inside the barrel? Is any yeast added? The barrel had spirits in it so all the brewing yeast would be dead.

      It's also not really moonshine as no distilling was listed. The maximum possible alcohol content would be whatever the yeast can achieve, which would be maybe 18%.

      Also flaming/charring the barrel is used to caramelize wood sugars and develop flavours. It doesn't make the barrel water tight. The actual liquid makes it water tight, as it causes the wood to swell and gaps to close.

      • morebunnings on 12/03/2025 - 03:16

        Fun fact - Moonshine can be made from anything. The term moonshine just means making it at night under the light of the moon (as in the moon is shining) so that the cops cant find you.

        Home distilling is quite easy, I wouldn't use the above method (no body ages a wash or mash in the barrel, you age spirits after distilling).

        Get some food safe buckets, sugar, yeast tomato paste and some lemon juice. Google "TPW wash" for the exact recipe. Sit the buckets in a warm room for a couple weeks and you will end up with a 12-14% wash.

        Then you need to put the wash through a still to distill it. I'd recommend a T500 reflux still. Distill the wash and you end up with 85-95% pure ethanol. Throw out the first ~100ml during the distillation process as that will contain the nasties (acetone, methanol etc..).

        then you water than down to 40% and you pretty much have vodka. From there you can run it through your still a second time to double-distill it, or you can carbon filter it, or age it with wood chips/in a barrel, or just add some flavours from your local home brew shop. etc..

        You can get a T500 still + fermenting buckets for about $700 on ebay new, with some sachets to get you started.

  • Codybyrne on 11/03/2025 - 17:54

    Booze is very bulky compared to cigarettes.

    You can fit a $100k+ of cigarettes in the back end of a 20 foot container. How much booze could you fit in the same space?

  • Ronerrlaw on 12/03/2025 - 02:05

    Higher risk of killing your customer with tainted alcohol, then a smoker.

  • Donmega123 on 12/03/2025 - 10:46

    I think the cigarettes in packets are a new thing, but you could always get chop chop for sixty dollars a pound. Fans of it would either roll their own or buy machines that filled empty pre rolled tubes. Because it didn't have salt petre etc added to the tobacco the chop chop would burn so slowly a cigarette could last ten or twelve minutes. There's a very interesting community on youtube that grow their own tobacco. Frankly it's unaustralian to not at least try to grow your own once.

  • hardjards on 12/03/2025 - 14:44

    Lots of scare mongering re distilled spirits. Unless you are using substances that contain pectins (primarily fruits/wheats/corns) - you essentially cannot create methanol. If you are distilling a sugarwash (water, sugar, yeast) the amount of methanol is almost non existant and harmless. Sure I completely agree that alcohol in general isnt good for you, but I would rather spend $10 on sugar and create create 8+ litres of my own 45+ abv (insert flavouring of choice) booze.

    • baker bob on 12/03/2025 - 17:01

      When I used to distill sugar wash I understood that you throw away the first bit (I think it was 5-10ml) as that was the poison, everything after that was good. I drank many litres of that stuff back in the day, was awesome. I don't know, I just followed the instructions, could be wrong.

  • hardjards on 12/03/2025 - 21:33
    +1

    Your stilling run is generally broken into four components:

    Foreshot:: The first quanity of fluiid to come out of your condesor - rough rule of thumb about 5ml per litre of sugar wash distilled. It smells and tastes bad - a bit like nail polish remover. You throw this out (note - if it is a sugar wash it will not have methanol - just taste bad give you a screaming headache.

    Heads:: The next 5ml per litre of sugar wash distilled is called the heads - it has a more fruity smell and taste some people use it, people also think this increases hangovers, I throw it because I think it messes with the taste.

    Hearts: The next portion that comes out of the condensor. To me it tastes almost sweet, but burns. This is the stuff you want to keep and either flavour (lots of options) or keep as pure alcohol and water down for just adding to mixers.

    Tails: To be honest - most modern setups dont really produce tails any more - essentially it is when you start to get water mixing into your condensor. The T500 mentioned by Morebunnings which is pretty big and the AirStill Pro that I use (small 4 llire) dont actually produce tails. They also automate the process of foreshot and heads removal, making them almost idiot proof.

    I love the Airstill Pro, lots you can do with, in either Pot Still or Reflux mode. Including your own botanicals for gins, or small batch trials. In reflux mode it will produce 90 percent ABV.

  • ozbjunkie on 13/03/2025 - 21:50

    It's like this

    There totally is a trade in black market fell of a truck or swapped label booze

    But the transactions where someone is saving big money and commercial

    And that means it happens with catering, bottle shops, etc. not individuals, the thirsty man or woman

    Not compared to cheap smokes and vapes, what's the difference?

    Well there's money in both, but Australia doesn't have an tobacco companies. Philip Morris isn't going to literally come and kick someone's ass, blow up there car or torch their shop for selling cheap ciggies besides their own, and out baddies dont care enough

    Besides there appears to be an agreement about vapes and police the same way bongs were illegal to sell but really it's about display, and really it's probably a little about brown envelopes and a mutual understanding there'll be a market somewhere and it can be a visible market the cops can know about, monitor, and investigate the backgrounds of the criminals running it, compared to creating more shady underground shit that's frankly a pain in the ass to police - there's also more risk of violence because violence is done in the dark. So they keep it visible

    As to why individual bottle shops don't sell this cheap booze to the consumer directly. Well, we have alcohol companies here. They have lots of money, its a very profitable industry. They can take you to court until your oblivion. And they have contracts to supply that booze to many powerful organisations, and rich venues that pump more money into owner pockets, or people of influence.

    The booze industry also employs a lot of people out of prison. running a bunch of criminal employees kinda requires a boss like nature. The booze industry in Australia was historically a violent one. Alcohol fighting and owning shit are characteristics that are found in certain "less restrained people" quite common gravitate to leading vice industries like booze. There's always a system running any vice.

    Some are notoriously violent, like come. Some are notoriously filled with crazies and very out there bikirs, like meth. Weed is run by hippies and for some reason Asians, and relatively free from violence

    Basically I'm saying Aussie bottle shops are either too involved, or too knowledgeable of the risks,to try black market booze. It is also because police are strict about sales of alcohol.yoy can smoke in school uniform and cops will look straight past you.but show a cop you have a bottle of beam, and they'll be taking that off you with very little it rest in explanations.

  • Xukeepa on 18/03/2025 - 14:08

    To my knowledege the black market cigs are coming from oversea makets and not produced in Australia. So the determinant factor is the cost (size/weight) of the item relative to it price/profit. Most Alcohol are packaged in glass unless they have a bottling place locally they are unlike to ship in lagre "goon sacks" (like the actual wine industry). So i think Alcohol is more costly and the sus factor is way higher than ciggys.

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