Why Aren't There Any Black Market Alcohol Shops Like There Are Cigarette Shops?

BGK on 08/03/2025 - 21:31
Last edited 09/03/2025 - 11:50 by 1 other user

Black market imported cigarettes and tobacco are easily purchased at many shops for much less than legit tobacco as the price of legit ciggies has risen to the point that few can afford them.

With the alcohol excise increasing every year as well as Australia being one of the most expensive countries to buy alcohol in why aren't there shops around that sell home brewed beer or home distilled spirits.

I'd imagine there would be a massive market for cheaper beer and spirits.

Sure you can brew or distill your own, but you could also grow a plant in your backyard.

Raising the prices so that few people can legally obtain these items is clearly not working and the government is missing out on the GST from sales of legit products.

Food & Grocery

Comments

  • tenpercent on 08/03/2025 - 21:45
    +18

    Are you the fuzz?

    Are you sure they don't exist?

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 21:53
      +1

      Maybe you got lucky or I'm just not in the know…only been able to purchase the specified goods from mates of mates that occasionally distill a batch.

      • foursaken on 12/03/2025 - 13:58

        You're not in the know. Did you miss the news on those two Australian tourists who passed from dodgy booze?

  • boomramada on 08/03/2025 - 21:47
    +13

    So you can buy methanol from them that tastes like Vodka?

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 21:54
      +12

      That's the point.

      If alcohol price keeps going up people are going to look for alternative means to acquire it which may not meet health and safety standards.

      • ForkSnorter on 09/03/2025 - 09:22
        -1

        which may not meet health and safety standards.

        Alcohol is classified as a Class 1 carcinogen. Is this the health and safety standard you're referring to?

        • Universal Constant on 09/03/2025 - 12:38
          +7

          Yes, and so is diesel exhaust. To which innocent people are forced to breathe the carcinogenic nano particles. The ceramic filters don't help with this. This has to be one of the best kept secrets for the last 40 years. Lets put 80% tax on all diesels and all their fuel and parts.

          • BronzingStubble on 09/03/2025 - 14:48
            +3

            @Universal Constant: You haven't thought this one through. How has every item in your home including the home itself been brought there?

          • boomramada on 09/03/2025 - 20:05
            +2

            @Universal Constant:

            Lets put 80% tax on all diesels and all their fuel and parts

            Just increase everything but the wages by 79% and ban diesel :)

            • leiiv on 13/03/2025 - 16:45

              @boomramada: Is diesel at least 79% cheaper than the alternative?

          • freefall101 on 11/03/2025 - 12:46

            @Universal Constant: It was so bizarre watching all those lawsuits over Roundup from people who had non-Hodgkin lymphoma. They work on farms, deal with a lot of diesel and diesel fumes increase the risk non-Hodgkin lymphoma. Yet they blamed Roundup, because it might be carcinogenic and they didn't slap a big enough warning label on there.

            But it took a lot to get rid of leaded fuel, despite that we knew that was killing people and basically made humanity a lot stupider for a few generations. Diesel we won't get rid of until battery tech replaces most of it.

      • 2esc on 09/03/2025 - 14:19

        Or reduce/ stop drinking?

  • tenpercent on 08/03/2025 - 21:48
    +18

    the government is missing out on the GST from sales of legit products.

    They're collecting more alcohol excise instead of more GST. And they're saving money on Medicare by avoiding paying for excessive numbers of liver disease treatments.

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 21:55
      +3

      Yes, until the price gets too high.

      At that point people won't just quit they will go to the black market which will cause more medical issues buying alcohol from inexperienced distillers that just want to make a quick buck and have no regard for safety.

      • SlickMick on 09/03/2025 - 09:37
        +3

        Sounds to me like they have it just about right atm, if OP is right that there isn't much of a black market.

        Whereas maybe they went too far with tobacco.
        However, Australia seems to have a better handle on smoking than most, so I'm happy with tobacco regulations too.

        Personally, I think the average decent citizen isn't going to risk drinking methanol, so they can follow the tobacco regulation model.

        • BGK on 09/03/2025 - 11:47
          +1

          At the moment there isn't much need for a black market just as 10 years ago not many people were buying imported tabaco compared to today.

          • SlickMick on 09/03/2025 - 12:12

            @BGK: Yeah, and like has been said here so many times, never likely to be.

            There might be a time in the future where there is a black market with quality controls so you're not risking your life to save some $$, but alcohol would have to get awfully expensive before I see that happening.

        • knk on 11/03/2025 - 13:11

          Black market tobacco is insanely cheap by comparison too.

          I know a guy who buys Marlboroughs for $14 a deck. I'm assuming they're imports, but probably a good chance they're counterfeit also.

          I don't generally smoke, but I've tried them and they taste how I expect a Marlborough to.

          • bobbified on 11/03/2025 - 21:40

            @knk:

            but I've tried them and they taste how I expect a Marlborough to.

            The "cheap" Malboroughs are still licenced products, but made for international markets. They're just smuggled into the country to avoid the ridiculous aussie taxes. They're about $20 for a full carton of 10 packs in asian countries.

            So even at $14/pack, there's still a huge margin. It just means that aussie government just doesn't get $30 or so taxes per pack (or whatever it is now).

      • foursaken on 12/03/2025 - 15:49

        This is a very complicated topic and there has been plenty, PLENTY of research into it, which I suggest you read if you want to have a meaningful understanding. Much of the research is ultra-complicated economics and health analysis, which is going to be way above your paygrade. See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03135…

        Illegal distilling is NOT a health issue, it's a taxation/excise issue policed by the ATO. This is how the government will always see it, and no correspondence will be entered into.

        (To be clear, the law states that to distil spirits, you need an excise manufacturer licence, full stop. You must pay duty on all distilled alcohol, full stop.)

        But wine, beer, and cider - go for it.

        Result? Marginally cheaper homebrew. Cheap booze is already about as cheap as it can be.

  • sumyungguy on 08/03/2025 - 21:53
    +3

    You're in Adelaide? There'll be an alleyway nearby with a cockfighting arena, unlicensed gambling house and crack den. You can get moonshine by the shot.

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 21:58
      +12

      Participated in a few cock fights but they had nothing to do with poultry.

      • tenpercent on 09/03/2025 - 10:37
        -1

        Brother eww

        • BGK on 09/03/2025 - 11:33
          +3

          Guess I'm not quitting my day job to become a stand up comedian then…

  • Jetstream on 08/03/2025 - 21:57
    +12

    I wonder if it is because people aren’t really that brand loyal to their cigarettes, so as long as it has nicotine - that’ll do.

    Where as, if someone said, if you don’t want Jack Daniel’s, I can get you some Mack Baniel’s, people would rather pay for the brand.

    Especially in the current climate where those girls passed away from the ethanol/methanol? poisoning.

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 22:10

      That's a fair point, brand loyalty would likely play a part.

      However is surely a demographic that would buy knockoff Jam Bim if it were at least 25% cheaper than store bought.

      • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 00:29
        +1

        Jim Beam IS the cheap crap..

    • bargaino on 08/03/2025 - 22:47
      +9

      Nobody ever died from smoking chop-chop. OK millions died a slow, painful death. Just not immediately, so they don't care?

    • meong on 09/03/2025 - 09:45
      +3

      When I was a smoker, i was loyal to a brand and could taste the difference.

      • SnakeCasablanca on 10/03/2025 - 11:58
        +1

        When you were a smoker did they cost $60 a pack and could you get a pack for $10 at the local blackmarket shop?

        Do you think you would have been brand loyal in those circumstances?

        • meong on 10/03/2025 - 12:38
          +2

          Price does make a difference indeed. But Class A cigarettes tasted smoother than the lower classes.

          I liked the taste of Peter Stuyvesant and Marlboro etc but found Bond or Peter Jackson to be rough.

          I used to smoke back then when largest pack of rollies tobaccoes cost less than $30 a pack so i went with that towards the end.

          So I would say it was pre-2011 cause that was when i started with vaping and eventually quit in 2013.

          I reckon with cost of cigarettes now you have to really be hanging out with the wrong crowd to even start a new cigarette habit.

        • derrida derider on 10/03/2025 - 18:10

          No, I would have given up the coffin nails instead.

          Which is exactly the point of the heavy tax.

      • Brianqpr on 11/03/2025 - 10:32

        Yes and some brands are seen as "cool", others less so.

    • Protractor on 09/03/2025 - 12:35

      JD is going up in price in Canada.

      • JDMcarfan on 12/03/2025 - 16:13

        because its being pulled off shelves in appropriate anti-american unity

    • ratman on 10/03/2025 - 07:52
      +3

      But the "black market tobacco shops" still sell brand names, just not in Australian packaging. They don't sell cheap imitations, they have e.g Marlboro in its original branded packaging as you can buy it all throughout most of Asian and euro countries, and they sell it for 1/5 the Aus price, which is still about $10-20 more than their cost. That's not the case with alcohol.

      I think cigs are small and light with huge margins to be made. Marlboro excise free is around $3 a pack in eg Malaysia and $65 here for the exact same product. Tobacconists typically sell for $15-25 a pack.

      Jack Daniels or whatever price difference globally would be much less, and not worth the hassle of importing and setting up a shop front to peddle.

  • McMaferMur on 08/03/2025 - 21:58

    how to sell whiskey? i have two bottles (unopen of course) cant sell on ebay…. :(

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 22:13
      +2

      If you're selling it for cheaper than retail it might be best to ask a mate if they're interested.

      If it's a vintage or collectible whiskey maybe take a look at an auction site that has a liquor license.

    • Clear on 08/03/2025 - 23:40

      Auction houses take alcohol. Expect to pay some hefty fees though.

    • mmd on 10/03/2025 - 02:14
      +1

      you also cant sell on fb or gumtree.

      • McMaferMur on 10/03/2025 - 08:06

        Huh even marketplace cannot? How Facebook able to monitor milllions item listed?

        • upsidedownlemon on 10/03/2025 - 08:23

          Probably checking words like “alcohol”

  • Jolakot on 08/03/2025 - 22:15
    +33

    People who are addicted to alcohol already have plenty of ways to acquire it for cheap, can get 4L of 10% cask wine/goon for $10 at most stores, or $35 for a 700ml bottle of cheap vodka or whiskey. Or the cheap hand sanitiser at Bunnings if you're that far gone.

    Hard to make much profit on cheap black market alcohol given the crappy stuff is already cheap, perhaps counterfeiting expensive brands alcohol would be though.

    No such alternatives for cigarettes, so the black market thrives. Much easier to smuggle as well.

    • surg3on on 09/03/2025 - 19:49
      +1

      Actual logical answer. Nice work

    • kbw on 10/03/2025 - 15:46
      +2

      This to an extent, although $35 for a bottle of vodka is ludicrously expensive compared to almost every other country on earth. It only looks cheap because we've gotten conditioned to anything recognizable being $50-60+ a bottle. For reference I checked Walmart and it's 6 USD for a 750ml generic vodka.

      The other half of the equation as you say is that smuggling in alcohol is very difficult compared to tobacco, the space and weight it takes up is astronomically more. Locally brewed moonshine will definitely get more common but I can't see it ever getting like illicit tobacco is now with 7 places in every suburb openly selling, it will likely stay in the territory of Dave making a few dozen litres a year in his shed and selling to friends to recoup costs.

      • Jolakot on 10/03/2025 - 17:26
        +1

        Someone working a minimum wage casual job gets $30/hour, the American equivalent is like $7.25 an hour.

        Sure it's more expensive, but you only need to work 20 more minutes here to get your generic vodka for your average poor person. You can also buy 700ml of 22% Divas Vkat (fake Vodka made from wine) for $13, or just buy your classic goon to get pissed.

        Everything except spirits is very affordable relative to income, so why would you bother.

        Big risk of metho poisoning with Davo's moonshine, he'd be better off sticking to beer.

        • kbw on 10/03/2025 - 18:04
          +2

          Common misconception actually, unless deliberately adultered (as in most cases in third world countries) or majorly stuffing up adding woody material to the mash you can't get dangerous amounts of methanol with home distillation. There's a pinned post on the firewater subreddit with a good explanation.

          Minimum wage doesn't really factor in, ethanol is extremely cheap to make and we overtax it to an insane degree. That's all there is to it, it isn't priced based on purchasing power of minimum wage employees, most of whom in America are not old enough to drink anyway.

          • Jolakot on 11/03/2025 - 12:50
            -1

            @kbw: Natural fermentation (especially with fruit) produces both methanol and ethanol, and home-distillation concentrates it into dangerous amounts. You don't need to adulterate it or add woody material, you just need to stuff up distillation steps or forget to discard the foreshots. That's why traditional moonshiners discard the first bottle.

            I'm sure this bloke was also confident about his brew, only takes one tiny stuff-up: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-06/grappa-poison-william…

            Purchasing power matters for why there is/isn't a black market, if something is affordable then the black market will be small, if it isn't affordable then it will be large. If the US had Australian prices for alcohol, then I'm sure they would have a larger black market, and I'm sure if the price here doubled then there would be as well.

            • randysal on 11/03/2025 - 16:59
              +1

              @Jolakot: In that article they mention purchasing methanol and mixing it up with home brew. That is not a brewing mishap.

            • kbw on 11/03/2025 - 17:09

              @Jolakot: I'd suggest you read the post I refer to as it also discusses why the traditional wisdom of discarding foreshots for methanol safety is rubbish - tl;dr version is methanol and water form an azeotrope that does not boil earlier than ethanol, and is in fact present throughout the entire distillation process.

          • knk on 11/03/2025 - 13:15
            +1

            @kbw: I really wanted to make Grappa but the moment my research showed there was even the possibility of me messing up the distillation process I noped out.

            Made mead instead lol - Tasted like shit. Need to try again.

        • eagerfisherman on 11/03/2025 - 11:42
          +1

          $7.25 is the federal minimum wage.

          ~30 states have a higher minimum wage. Less than 2% of all workers in USA earn the federal minimum wage, usually teens bracket, though, this kind of statistic tends to hide a lot but at least it gives us a sense.

          Anyway, long story short, don't use minimum wage to compare cost of living/goods among countries, but specifically, not the USA.

          • Jolakot on 11/03/2025 - 12:32

            @eagerfisherman: I assume the people who find alcohol prohibitively expensive are teenagers or low-skilled workers, so to me the minimum wage comparison makes sense as most people earning more than that probably doesn't care.

            But fair enough, how would you compare the cost of a bottle of vodka for the working class between countries?

      • geosta on 10/03/2025 - 20:39

        I don't have the inclination to look it up but I believe the excise on spirits is significantly higher than on wine and beer and that's on purpose, because spirits are exponentially worse for your body than wine and beer.

        I remember when I moved to Ireland in the early 00's they had just massively jacked up the excise on spirits for precisely this reason - to discourage people from drinking spirits. In a pub you could buy a pint of Guinness for about 3 euros, but a single nip of whiskey was about 7 euros or there abouts.

      • R4 on 11/03/2025 - 16:27
        +1

        In Japan a few years ago, I bought 700ml bottles of Bombay Sapphire gin for AUD14 at the 7-11 near where we were staying in Tokyo - and it wasn't on sale. That same bottle is at least $45 here when not on sale. Spirit prices in Australia are insane and just another gravy train for the government to collect our money to then go ahead and waste it.

  • Sammy2000 on 08/03/2025 - 22:17
    +4

    I have also been thinking it would go this way. I guess you can already brew your own beer and ferment other things legally, tobacco cannot be grown legally.
    This is a stupid tax, it's already hit the spot where it is only for the rich. Prohibition didn't work 100 years ago, pricing people out of something just gives crims a decent wage.

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 22:30
      +6

      They only have to look at what happened when they did a 'soft ban' on vaping.

  • JIMB0 on 08/03/2025 - 22:27
    +3

    Fortified wine is very cheap considering the alcohol content. You can get a 750ml 16% bottle for as little as $5, I'd spend a bit more and get one that doesn't give you a bad hangover.

    If you don't mind a salty drink then cooking wine is even cheaper, I've seen a bottle of 29% for $3. Totally undrinkable, although I'm sure there's a way.

    • BGK on 08/03/2025 - 22:51

      If you're in a pinch that will do, however if you want something that tastes halfway decent that just doesn't cut the mustard.

      • JIMB0 on 08/03/2025 - 23:06
        +3

        Home brew is good option if you like beer and have the time/skill/patience.

        • BGK on 09/03/2025 - 11:36

          Home-brew is a fair bit cheaper. The coopers kits work out to roughly $35 for 23L of beer.

        • buckerooni on 11/03/2025 - 22:59
          +1

          yeah, but to make something consistent and easily drinkable it takes a fair bit of time and a bit of kit (i.e. temp controlled fridge to ferment, ideally kegs, C02 bottle etc). It's going to be a while until you make something of a standard people other than yourself is prepared to drink!! Makes a few cheap bottles of port sound pretty attractive…I'm a home brewer and have around 3-4K of gear but I am a bit of a gear freak…

  • bargaino on 08/03/2025 - 22:55
    +1

    When I was a young'un, a few shops (e.g. "Re" store) legally sold "Hoyts essence" for $5/bottle.
    It was 80% ethanol, 375ml or so, equivalent to a full bottle of spirits. Flavours included raspberry, peppermint, almond, vodka, rum, brandy, …
    It went on for years, in plain sight. I had a full cocktail cabinet.

    Actually they still exist, but only 50ml bottles ;-( https://hoytsfood.com.au/essences/

    • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 00:41
      +2

      the president of the Science Students club at uni had drunk these at high school.
      he wanted to run events at uni for the club with as low budget as possible.

      Mexican / Taco Tuesday involved buying as many "tequila" Hoyts bottles as we could find, clearing out all the shops for miles around campus, and mixing / bottling them in his mums kitchen the night before. I also refused to eat whatever they were passing off as tacos.

      Pretty sure they also ran another event using "vodka" but I don't recall the theme for that one.

  • pao2x on 09/03/2025 - 00:06
    +4

    Ive seen some real alcoholics, they are disproportionately in liver and multi organ failure compared to most.

    Alcohol is cheap enough. You can get metho and sprite, or something more palatable 2-3 goon bags a day. The cheapest kind. You do not need to get illicit kind when the legal ones are plenty and cheap. $12 for 5L, cheaper than some bottled water

    • tenpercent on 09/03/2025 - 11:20

      Isn't there a bittering agent added to metho though to discourage drinking it? I don't think sprite would hide that taste.

    • BGK on 09/03/2025 - 11:39

      Cheap wine exists but there is no cheap alternative for spirits or beer apart from home brew.

      • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 00:43

        by the time they reach that point they switch from beer or spirits, to wine. its a lifestyle choice.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 09/03/2025 - 00:17
    +9

    You're out there somewhere, Beer Baron! and I'll find you!

    • AustriaBargain on 09/03/2025 - 03:23
      +20

      ⁿᵒ ʸᵒᵘ ʷᵒⁿ'ᵗ

  • fantombloo on 09/03/2025 - 01:35
    +7

    Smokes concentrate a lot of money into a small mass and volume. They're easy to move for the money they can fetch.

  • AustriaBargain on 09/03/2025 - 02:06
    +1

    Brewcraft will sell everything you need to make your own spirits. You just can't buy it all at once, so they need to ring it up in different transactions. It's easier to just buy it though than still your own. You do get a lot more popular when you can sell people cheap spirits. But there's a danger of methanol poisoning if you're not careful so there's a chance of prison.

  • nomoneynoproblems on 09/03/2025 - 06:50
    +2

    Cigarettes from overseas are very easy to get into the country. They’re small so it’s easy to get enough quantity to sell at your tobacco store. Try that with alcohol. You’d need to smuggle in pallets worth somehow to make it worth it, as your odd bottle here and there isn’t going to cut it.

    • prodrome on 10/03/2025 - 22:11

      You can just swallow it right?

  • afah0447 on 09/03/2025 - 09:05
    +1

    There is no need. Ive seen bottles of wine for $3 and boxes of wine for $10.

    Also making your own booze is legal and simple. Growing tobacco and making your own cigarettes is a long difficult process which is illegal.

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 09/03/2025 - 10:35
      +1

      Maling spirits is ilegal without a license, however you do have to pay excise tax on what you make.

      • tenpercent on 09/03/2025 - 11:22

        do you have to pay excise tax on what you make

        Even for personal consumption?

        • upsidedownlemon on 09/03/2025 - 19:21

          Yes

          • garage sale on 12/03/2025 - 20:30
            -1

            @upsidedownlemon: no, you can brew beer legally hence coppers kist in super markets and distill spirits up to using a 5 L still, check ATO web site, above 5l still ATO wants to know about it and you are supposed to pay excise, popular home still size is actually about 30 L and i’m sure many garages with traditions from the home country make grappa, plum brandy and other stuff.

            • upsidedownlemon on 12/03/2025 - 20:44

              @garage sale:

              Stills used for other purposes
              You can own a still with a capacity of 5 litres or less without our permission, but only if you're not using it to distil alcohol.

              https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-exci…

              Looks like that rule is for non-alcohol stills.
              It’s been a few years since I researched fully, but I recall needing to pay excise on any spirits made at home, though would be happy to know if that’s changed

              Edit: oh yeah, the above section from that link

              Stills used to distil alcohol
              To use a still of any capacity to distil alcohol, you must have an excise manufacturer licence.

        • BewareOfThe Dog on 10/03/2025 - 12:41

          Also owning/supplying a unit above 5l is illegal.
          However 25l beer boilers and crab cookers are legal.

      • Randolph Duke on 10/03/2025 - 10:16
        +3

        Yet also unenforceable.

        • BewareOfThe Dog on 10/03/2025 - 18:10

          Generally, buying from a local shop, provides people with the correct education on how to use the product, plus a Retail unit comes with Instructions. There was a Backyard guy in our area, selling homemade units that was a Priest.

          Most of these units, have been trialled, tested, analysed so there is no chance of Methanol poisoning, like in overseas countries - EG Bali, Laos, India, Vietnam, Thailand etc. There were a few fatalities in QLD a decade ago,

          Home made units, will work, but Methanol is part of the extraction process at the beginning of the distillation.
          Depending on the batch, yeast, fermentables (Sugar, fruit etc) you need to remove anywhere between 50 to 300 mls, at the beginning.

          Distillation in NZ is legal, which is where most Australian distributors obtain products etc.

  • mike6969 on 09/03/2025 - 09:13

    I think cheap alcohol (cask wine, port, $30 vodka, etc) is still well within people's budgets. Cigarettes not so much

  • 2jzzzz on 09/03/2025 - 11:18
    +1

    Make way more money in tobacco as it's very light to ship and bikies are organised.

  • Protractor on 09/03/2025 - 11:28

    Gotta save cash when deleting a liver. Dodgy backyard moonshine is the quickest way.

    • BGK on 09/03/2025 - 11:44

      Well this is Ozbargain.

      • Protractor on 09/03/2025 - 12:05
        +1

        Did not go well for those 2 girls in SE Asia recently.

  • apple2016 on 09/03/2025 - 13:03
    +2

    why aren't there shops around that sell home brewed beer or home distilled spirits.

    Good try ATO/cops!

    Well they dont advertise themselves for a reason.

  • cfuse on 09/03/2025 - 14:33
    +2

    I've never met a drunk that knows how to keep their mouth shut.

  • gromit on 09/03/2025 - 14:52

    Black Market Alcohol and tobacco have always existed, even back in the 80's and 90's when a pack of cigarettes wasn't insanely expensive. people will always search for cheaper even if the tax is relatively low it is always too much.

    • Antikythera on 10/03/2025 - 00:51

      back in the 80's and 90's

      at one point I ran a small Tobacco ring.
      the boys in the bottle-o were tasked with using the cigarette machine for drive-through customers.
      it was an old run-down machine. we worked out if you pushed the button just right you could get a pack of ciggies and not get charged.

      put in twenty, push button carefully, get winnie blues, get twenty back.

      i got so good at it, one time i got seven packs, for twenty bucks.
      we were selling packs to locals in the public bar for half price.
      told the boss, he didn't care, it wasn't his machine. he just wanted a share of the profits.

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