Plumber Question Which I Guess Would Fit All Trades

Ltorface on 05/05/2025 - 13:50

Hi, I'm a new home owner and never really dealt with tradies etc. If you have someone out such as a plumber who can't seem to find the issue, and in searching for the issue busted out every little gadget he could.

Should you pay for the service?

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to pay but when I've been hit with a massive bill and nothing has been solved, I find it a bit unfair and unsure what to do. Is this a scam they pull? Or should there be some discount considering he was zero help.

All he could go was guesstimate this and guesstimate that, yet I don't know what to do next, and can't afford another plumber.

Home & Garden Plumber

Comments

  • Aldonis on 05/05/2025 - 13:56
    +5

    why are you trying to punish the guy by who, by your own admission, tried every method and tool he could to try find your issue?
    I guess it would depend if he couldn't help due to incompetence

    • torface on 05/05/2025 - 14:13
      +30

      Well that's the thing, I'm not a plumber and have no idea if he couldn't locate the issue due to incompetence.

      For a skilled person to leave without being able to diagnose the issue or at least provide some light on the problem seems weird.

        • 2025 on 06/05/2025 - 17:31
          +2

          It was answered yesterday

          Yet another waste of a reply on the first comment.

          • SYLTB on 07/05/2025 - 18:08
            +1

            @2025: Along with skills, tradie should also not be raptor, ranger, cloger, toyoto, holdon etc ute/pickup driver but van or car driver.

      • CalmLemons on 07/05/2025 - 20:02
        +1

        It depends, normally there is call out then price per time for investigations if nothing can be found.

        Plumbers are either charged set price for the job, or price per 15 mins - 30 mins for investigative work.

        He should have said at the start that he will investigate, there will be a charge for how much time it takes, but sometimes he might not find the cause.

        This is standard practice for say locating leaks and underground services, takes however long it takes. Some stuff is really hard to find, especially when it is burried under half a meter of concrete or soil.

        How much was the 'excessive' fee if you don't mind me asking?

        When it's a sulfer smell it normally starts from blockages near the toilets/leaks around the toilet.

        If it is gases that can be really hard to find, given that the issue can be just poor installation of pipes.

    • lonewolf on 06/05/2025 - 11:55
      +14

      Because if you are a professional and you cant find the problem or resolve anything, but the other person is still expected to pay an exorbitant amount, i am sure most people would get a bit annoyed by it.

    • marshmall0w2 on 07/05/2025 - 07:49
      +1

      Because, he, as the non-skilled, wouldn't tell the difference between a plumber faking expertise and a plumber actually resolving the issue. This is an insider secret but plumbers love call-out fees for a reason. For driving around like an Uber Eats driver but for way more pay, and then 1/8th-@ssing diagnosis and resolution. Then leave with the $199.

  • Fredfloresjr on 05/05/2025 - 13:56
    +2

    Give gold coin and ask to leave.

  • geekcohen on 05/05/2025 - 13:59
    +7

    Generally, there is a minimum call out fee that includes x amount of time. Depending on what the issue is would depend on whether the additional time should be payable if they couldn't work it out.

    Could you please explain the issue first? It must be a very weird issue if the plumber cannot fix it or find the issue!

    • torface on 05/05/2025 - 14:18

      I have no issue with a callout fee, it's more the slapping on extra costs over that time yet having no solution in the end.

      The issue is a sulpher smell in the house (more so at night) when using shower and laundry, yet he spent all his time focused on the toilet plumbing.

      • geekcohen on 05/05/2025 - 14:22
        +3

        I have no issue with a callout fee, it's more the slapping on extra costs over that time yet having no solution in the end.

        I agree.

        The issue is a sulpher smell in the house (more so at night) when using shower and laundry, yet he spent all his time focused on the toilet plumbing.

        So it sounds like he has no idea what he is doing then, I wouldn't pay him. Is this a newly built house or a pre-existing home? Have you tried putting some drain unblocker down all your drains and then rinsing/washing with hot water for like 5 to 10 mins?

        To me, and I am no plumber, but it sounds like the drains rather than the toilet…… I would get a second opinion.

        How long was the plumber there for and what sort of dollars are we talking for this "massive bill"?

      • Kodak on 06/05/2025 - 08:58
        +17

        Do you have a sink that is never used?
        Run all your sinks for a minute or so. This will fill the P-traps (u-pipe under the sink). if these dry out smells from sewage will come up.

        • FrogandToad on 06/05/2025 - 09:53
          +7

          Kodak is correct - If you have a floor waste (drain) pour water down it to fill the P-trap as well. You may have a vent pipe in a wall cavity that may be broken or not connected. Check the pipes to the exterior wall to the laundry/bathroom for breakages or smells whilst running the taps, which may help to localise the issue.
          Good luck.

        • RMBC on 06/05/2025 - 10:07
          +6

          Also pour water down the drains on floors as sometimes the wastewater doesn't go into all of them; have had that issue in laundries before.

          • pastapins on 07/05/2025 - 07:54
            +1

            @RMBC: This is so true, and escapes my mind on why they’d have these drains. We regularly have to pour water into them to avoid the smell.

      • Relapse on 06/05/2025 - 16:18

        Do you have a hot water heater?

      • OzRealityBites on 06/05/2025 - 20:18
        +2

        That's a pretty standard approach. If you don't know where the blockage \ issue is, getting to it via a toilet pan is usually the simplest option — toilet soil pipes are 2.5x the diameter of shower\basin\sink\tub\trough waste pipes. They are also PVC once you get parts the portcelain bowl, the are fully open, with just a bend and water seal vs the others which have grates and may have metal fixings that are vulnerable to many chemicals.

        It sounds like he may have tried plunger, auger and chemicals. The best option is almost always a camera and snake, followed by chemicals to keep it clear. I would try getting a few quotes for that from airtasker, just choose one that give you a full breakdown of the pricing and inclusions.

        In some events you will need a resleeve of the main sewer pipe which cost many $1000s even for a short length.

    • torface on 05/05/2025 - 14:16
      +22

      Well I do actually, and I have a no fix no charge policy. Thing is, in my case, most of the time I can fix the issue without playing the guesstimate game of what the issue could be.

        • torface on 05/05/2025 - 14:29
          +5

          I'm more talking about the skill set of said trade. Nothing to do with overheads etc.

      • MS Paint on 05/05/2025 - 14:23

        TIL OP is a no win no fee lawyer.

        • torface on 05/05/2025 - 14:30
          +36

          Cheers for all your lovely contributions. They are as useless as the plumber.

          • MS Paint on 05/05/2025 - 14:55

            @torface: No problems. You obviously came here seeking confirmation bias so I'll reword my response.

            The plumber should not have charged you. Demand an immediate refund or take them to small claims court. The plumber should work for pennies unless a solution is found and even then should charge fees equal to minimum wage as, after all, they never went to university.

            • torface on 05/05/2025 - 16:07
              +7

              @MS Paint: Calm down Kazza!

            • nobro25 on 07/05/2025 - 10:44
              +1

              @MS Paint: You're going at the extreme ends of things. It's more or less about the job on job basis.

              Payment should be about the job done and produced as opposed to just the time spent.

              You can spend all the time in the world to make something but if there's "acceptable" outcome they begs the question should that person be paid.

              Sure you can argue some jobs are purely by the hour… Then it's up to the companies discretion to deem if the person is employable/fit for the job/ renegotiate their pay terms/ reassess their position and role in the company.

              Alternative steps might need to be taken such as counselling, retraining or even worse case being made redundant or blatant firing if they have broken some legal contract.

    • tenpercent on 05/05/2025 - 16:14
      +1

      You do. Exhibit A

    • JIMB0 on 06/05/2025 - 10:07
      +1

      skill set

      Turns out the plumber didn't have the skill set required.

  • Vakua on 05/05/2025 - 14:36
    +16

    Place a damp towel over every drain hole in the house. If the smell disappears you know where the problem is.

    • torface on 05/05/2025 - 16:05
      +2

      Good tip, I shall try this. Cheers!

    • Waltervp on 06/05/2025 - 07:48

      Miy.plumber told me to put 3 aspirins in the toilet and flush slowly, then wait for a few hours.

      • greatlamp on 06/05/2025 - 16:19

        Denture cleaning tablets might do something. Aspirin??

        • Muppet Detector on 06/05/2025 - 17:30
          +1

          How do you flush slowly?

          • greatlamp on 06/05/2025 - 18:03

            @Muppet Detector: Don't press the button all the way in I guess.

            Are you hinting that this is a trick

            • Muppet Detector on 06/05/2025 - 20:13

              @greatlamp: Not at all. Was just having toilet inferiority issues. My toilets have full flush and half flush but was thinking fast and slow flush might be a new invention or a posh thing lol.

  • AustriaBargain on 05/05/2025 - 14:54
    +1

    They should have mentioned a callout fee.

  • BOGOF on 05/05/2025 - 15:08
    +15

    Have you 'recharged' the floor drains in the bathroom/laundry? Just pour water down the floor drain as the trap has likely dried out.

    • MS Paint on 05/05/2025 - 15:52
      +1

      Next post by OP.

      I'm trying to recharge my trap. Where do I plug it in? Is USB-C a universal thing in plumbing?

      • BOGOF on 05/05/2025 - 16:05
        +1

        It's probably an older house so USB Mini-B will be required.

    • torface on 05/05/2025 - 16:05
      +2

      Yep, I do that regularly with a sink that I don't use regularly. I might try the towel method another person suggested and see if that helps find the exact location.

  • joka on 05/05/2025 - 16:13
    +4

    I think this is a situation where you need to come to an agreement with the plumber.

    Did he spend hours, a day, a couple of days trying to fix the issue?

    Did he come out to give you a quote or to fix the issue?

    He probably needs to be paid at the very minimum a call out fee.

    If he spent a day and got no results then he definitely doesn't deserve a days worth of work because he came out to fix something and he walked away not fixing that issue. Paying him the full amount he's asked for is rewarding poor behaviour.

    And yes, we too would at my workplace would be hung out to dry by our customers if we charged them for something and we didn't deliver. We're not being paid by customers to learn. We are called upon as professionals and there is an expectation that we know what we are doing. If it looks odd or hard, then we should say something before taking on the job.

  • brad1-8tsi on 05/05/2025 - 17:42
    +6

    When I was on the tools I had quite a few vehicles I couldn't diagnose and sent the customer on their way without charge. Due to the nature of my training my skills were quite specialised so there was a lot I wasn't good at in the first few years.

  • Some Human on 05/05/2025 - 17:46

    Septic or mains?

  • Muppet Detector on 05/05/2025 - 18:17
    +2

    Should you pay for the service?

    I'm thinking that it depends on what was said and what you agreed to.

    Did he tell you he could fix it?

    He probably at least ruled out some things that aren't causing your problem and maybe it's not even a plumber problem causing the smell.

    I'm thinking that if I go to the doctor with a sore tummy, I'm probably expected to pay for any diagnostic tests as well as the doctor fee even if he can't work out what is wrong.

    Sometimes, you might need to see a bunch of doctors before you find one who can correctly diagnose the problem and might then need an entirely different doctor to fix it.

  • AndyC1 on 05/05/2025 - 19:26

    Sounds like OP needs a lawyer that deals with contracts to get advice to see what was in the contract and if the contract was valid….. The cost of it all….

  • bargaino on 05/05/2025 - 20:20
    +5

    All he could go was guesstimate this and guesstimate that,

    At the very least to justify the fee, he should have knocked out an informal but written report, listing all the tests he made, the potential faults he eliminated, and a recommendation for where to go next.
    For a shrug and "dunno mate" , he deserves apprentice pay rates.

  • SlickMick on 06/05/2025 - 07:52
    +4

    Unfortunately, there are definitely incompetent tradies out there. They count on new customers who don't check reviews, as they never get repeat business.

    Good tradies are hard to find, but they're as precious as gold. It's a great feeling to know you have someone to call when something goes wrong.

  • JIMB0 on 06/05/2025 - 10:12
    +1

    Do you have any air admittance valves? These are used where there's no stink pipe venting the sewer to the outside. They're only meant to let air into the pipe but sometimes they get stuck and let smells out.

  • Deals For Days on 06/05/2025 - 11:40

    Obviously have to pay call out fee but yeah I wouldn’t pay an entire day rate if there was literally no progress made. Need something more than ‘sorry couldn’t fix it’ otherwise there is zero incentive to do good work

  • Gippopotamus on 06/05/2025 - 13:08
    +10

    I have a construction background. I would've expected the plumber to notify you when he's reached the cap of his allowed call out time.
    Then have a chat re: "hey can't really find anything here. If you'd like I can keep going for $XXX/hr. Otherwise sorry I can't help"
    Mood's never great negotiating after they've spent the hours

  • smigglejiggle on 06/05/2025 - 15:42
    +1

    Just on smells, I had a sewerage smell coming from our toilet, but everything was flushing and no blockages. Had a plumber friend come over. Easy fix, it was an older toilet, that you could see the drain pipe, the rubber surround had perished, so the smell of my freshly flushed poo was coming straight back from the drain pipe. He just ran a bead of silicon around the joint, and the smell was gone.

    • Freighter on 06/05/2025 - 17:05

      Surely replacing the pan collar would've made more sense?

      • smigglejiggle on 06/05/2025 - 18:36

        Yeah, but he didn't have any tools and I only had silicon. Easy fix with minimal fuss.

  • Darude Sandstorm on 06/05/2025 - 16:19

    Generally, my call-out will include the first 30-45 minutes of work.
    If there's no resolution after that I'll let the client know and we'll go off an hourly rate.
    My biggest issue with all of this sort of stuff is generally Mechanics, I've been to some in the past, dropped the car off with suspected alternator fault for example, get charged 4 hours of fault finding and then told it's the alternator, mechanics seem to just charge hours upon hours for fault finding, one mechanic can find the fault within an hour, another 8 hours and don't tell ya til it's too late lol

    • MrMarket on 06/05/2025 - 16:29

      some tradies now charge just for giving simple quote, say you want a job done and want 3-4 quotes if each one charge $100 - $200 to give a quote you down $600 buck before you even get anyone in.

      now I only deal with tradies that don't charge for quote and give them all the jobs.

      • Darude Sandstorm on 06/05/2025 - 16:37
        +2

        And this is exactly why I charge for most quotes.
        Everyone's just trying to get 3 quotes and pick the cheapest, I don't have time anymore to deal with bottom-feeders.

        When I first started working solo (7 months ago), I would go out, quote approx 20 jobs a week for free, win 4-5 of them and was decent.
        But now I've basically stopped taking residential jobs unless they're happy to pay for a quote (quote fee isn't the cost of a full hour labour and comes off the final invoice anyway), started working with commercial, small business and industrial clients who have money and aren't afraid to spend it, most of my ongoing/repeat clients don't get charged for quotes even if it takes me 4 hours to suss out their site and do the report/quote and I win the work.

        I understand both sides, who wants to pay for 3 quotes? but also, you need multiple quotes because someone is going to rip you off.. :)

        • MrMarket on 06/05/2025 - 18:37

          fair enough, that why I am happy to pay more for someone who give me a free quote, I picked best out of three not just on
          price but I get to asset their personality and how I interact with them.

          But I ain't paying someone I am not happy with to go with for the job. Yes, I know it cost people time but business should factor that into cost of running business do a good job and be competitive and I am sure plenty will use your services

          I got three quotes recently could come in $1500, $1800, $2000

          I went with $1800 because I feel he has a lot more experience and get very good review and I am super happy with him and I am about to call him back for a few more jobs on two properties no need for other quotes

          Once you are in my books as a good tradie you get repeat work, I just don't like the whole charge for quote thing so I vote with my wallet, other people can use them I just refused to do so.

        • Antikythera on 06/05/2025 - 18:59

          good on ya.
          build up a client list.
          keep the ones who pay on time.
          treat them well, do good work and you cant go wrong.

          I once asked my brother, a cabinet maker, if he wanted me to do a website for him. he said he didn't even have an add in the phone book. yes it was that long ago. he sold the business last year.

        • mrvaluepack on 06/05/2025 - 21:11

          Maybe your quotes sucks/not competitive enough against market pricesm

  • drprox on 06/05/2025 - 16:38
    +1

    You sure don't sound "happy to pay"…

  • Powershopz on 06/05/2025 - 16:44

    How much are we talking with "massive bill"?

    Sounds like a lack of communication from the plumber. Generally trades for unknown repairs like mechanics or appliances will say something along the lines of "I think it could be xyz, we can take a look for $$$ however there is no guarantee we'll be able to fix it if that isn't it/other reasons"

    Then let you know as it progresses if there are additional costs.

  • eggboi on 06/05/2025 - 16:58

    this is an interesting one… some things are black and white - like paying a plumber to fix a leak, where the leak's nature and location is obvious. other things are less straightforward. this one is right down in the 'who knows' end.

    i'd say it's more like a car with a weird issue that lacks a clear cause or solution, or a medical issue that is very hard to find the underlying cause of your symptoms…

    interestingly, i feel like while hardly anyone seems to want to pay a plumber for their time spent trying and failing to diagnose a difficult and obscure issue, most of us would begrudgingly pay a mechanic in the same situation with a troublesome older car. While just about everyone accepts that they have to pay the doctor for their time whether or not their advice / referrals / prescriptions are actually helpful or not.

    I myself actually have a similar issue with sulphur smell in the house. intermittent with weird characteristics. pretty subtle most of the time, not obvious where it's coming from and all known pipes cleaned out. I haven't yet hired a plumber for fear of ending up in the exact situation as you have: time and effort spent by a tradie with no solution - and not necessarily their fault either.

    Hope you get it sorted!

  • wyrmy on 06/05/2025 - 17:47
    +3

    Can't comment on specific issue but I have seen fair share of incompetent tradies mixed in with the great ones.

    Worst example was a pump replacement which he struggled with for over 2 hours. Got an excessive bill which was reduced after complaining to parent company with security cam footage showing time wasted each trip bring back one small tool instead of a toolbox.

    The replaced pipe ended up burst in less than a week because he used a low pressure fitting in a high pressure line. Their excuse was he didn't have the right tool at the time and kept working instead of suggesting rescheduling work.

    Looks like they hired the wrong tool for the job.

  • deanylev on 06/05/2025 - 18:05
    +3

    I actually was in this situation a couple of months ago. The plumber came out twice and could not fix the issue either time. I politely emailed him after the second visit requesting my money back so that I could pay another plumber, and he obliged.

  • nwa on 06/05/2025 - 18:14

    Your question is very simple to answer, it all depends on the agreement that was made. In saying that if a problem cannot be located then they go for guesswork or replace the most likely problem part like technicians or mechanics.

  • 2025 on 06/05/2025 - 19:22
    +1

    Meh, you’re looking at it wrong

    You paid him to rule the other things out…

  • dogboy on 06/05/2025 - 20:18
    +5

    I had a pool guy out to find a leak in my pool who guaranteed in their ad they could find any leak. He spent time diving in the pool but couldn't find anything. I paid him his fee but wasn't all that happy as I was still losing a lot of water. I got a different pool guy out the same week who located the issue (a hole at the side of a pipe) in about 10 minutes and patched it. Afterwards I rang the first pool guy and said I wanted a refund due to his guarantee and the fact that a hole was found. He got quite upset and angry but eventually agreed to refund the whole amount after I told him I would get the second pool guy to ring him. I told him he still came out and did work so we split the difference. Try a different plumber.

  • mrvaluepack on 06/05/2025 - 21:07

    Maybe you should have negotiated before the job started. Where or what is the leak by the way?

  • duluxe2000 on 06/05/2025 - 23:56

    What did he do? How long did spend his time finding the issue ? And finally how much did he charge you ?

    And where are you btw (Sydney/Melbourn/Brisbane/Perth/Adelaide metro etc ..? )

  • Walleee-y on 07/05/2025 - 04:54
    +2

    Had this exact issue in a friend's house. Ran water in all the drains for a good 5 minutes. Showers, sinks, baths, buckets of water in the drains in the bathroom floor drains. Smell went away overnight. (In hindsight, a hosepipe would have been easier than using buckets).

    Worth a phone call to the plumber telling him you solved the issue and would like to offer him what you did to fix it, but also discuss the invoice. Probably the first time he has come across something like this - you could save him further embarrassment with future clients.

  • mja1986 on 07/05/2025 - 05:13
    +1

    You need to be upfront when asking the tradesperson to attend. Asking key questions such as:

    Can your write up all steps you take?
    What is your minimum call out fee?
    Also keep the chit chat to after the job is done and invoiced, that way you not paying to talk to them and letting them do their job

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2025 - 09:43

    How many hours and how much $$? We are missing key context.

    I've been in this situation with a trade. They refused to give a fixed quote but popped into my house and said it was an hour job. Went ahead with them as they were highly recommended. On the day, 3 hours later they still hadn't commenced the job due to an "issue". Told them to pack up and go.

    Called another plumber, who laughed when I mentioned the issue and said it definitely isn't an issue and deals with that all the time. Came out, gave fixed price quote, came back later that week and finished the job in less than an hour.

    First trade sent me an invoice for far more $$ than the second guy, told them I'm not paying it as trade #2 did the job cheaper and in less than an hour. They backed down.

    Easier for you to perhaps resolve if a second trade can identify and resolve the issue.

  • gezza90 on 07/05/2025 - 09:57

    Welcome to home ownership… I've owned a few properties since 2014 and your question applies mostly to plumbers. Whenever I get electricians, carpenters and plumbers out for a 'quote', I have only been charged by plumbers. Usually a call out fee + fault finding. Quotes from electricians and carpenters are often free.

    I recently upgraded my Electrical Mains (6mm to 16mm to two phase switchboard and it cost me $7,500. The original quote was $6,950 but they charged extra because there was unexpected 'fault finding' in the invoice. So I guess the plumber charges you for the 'fault finding' upfront?

  • atwilliams on 07/05/2025 - 12:23

    What did the OP agree to upfront (in terms of costs) and how he would like to proceed?

  • alexdagr8 on 07/05/2025 - 14:25

    If you go to the doctors and they diagnose you with cancer, do you only pay them if they can cure you?

    I’d say give the person a sh*t review and go to someone else in future.

    This should be a learning lesson for you (it’s not fun)

    professionals cost money and do everything you can before having to get in a pro if you can’t afford it.
    Providing them the information and what you’ve tried prior to getting them in will help

    (Others made great suggestions and here’s a few others)
    -Wet rags to isolate
    -pouring water in drains traps (do it very slowly and minimum 10 litres per drain - will reduce pressure build up and p trap auto emptying)
    -Then denture tablets… (if the water is smelly)
    -Drain-o if rotten roots in pipe etc
    - drain auger from Bunnings can be a cheap investment.
    - Make sure that everything drains fast as well (no clogs)
    - blasting a hose down pipes can also assist
    - cheap viewing cam can help see (ozito from Bunnings has one for less than $79 at the moment)

    If the issue isn’t straight forward it might mean big bucks to fix but main thing is to narrow things down first (yourself)

    • Gongxifachai on 08/05/2025 - 14:15
      +1

      You pay them for diagnosing you with cancer (because you weren't sure whats going on)
      Tick

      Whether you continue to pay them for treatment is another question.
      In this case, OP said the "doctor" couldnt even tell whats wrong.

  • India pale ale on 08/05/2025 - 14:48

    As I did couple of day ago.

    I went to hipages, yellow pages, looked for a local providers.
    called about 10 and one of them said he will assess and give a price.

    yes mostly people charge call out fee but there are many out there who would give a quote

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