NSW to legalise e-scooters on paths and roads up to 20km/h for those over 16
E-scooters will be legalised on shared paths and bike lanes on roads – but remain outlawed on footpaths – under a New South Wales government plan that will also introduce strict speed and age limits.
10km/h is daft. Have passed some of those hire/trial e scooters while i was cycling and they travel so slow its virtually not worth it. 10km/h is getting very close to the minimum speed where its easy to control a pushbike. It is far easier at 15km/h. Virtually no bicycles travel at less than 15, and most closer to 20. Why make scooters half that?
Noone will want to ride at 10, making a mockery of making them legal.
Because they could kill pedestrians on shared paths https://www.police.vic.gov.au/pedestrian-dies-after-collisio…
Share paths are designed for transport as much as recreation. They typically have decent width and sight lines and 'intersections'. They should be able to be used at a reasonable speed. 10 is not reasonable for commutig.
However 10 is a reasonable speed in a heavily pedestrainised area, like shopping malls etc.
Pedestrian deaths are very rare.
@tenpercent: We need to encourage more people out of cars, off the roads and onto alternative forms of transport. This will cut congestion.
Pedestrian deaths are very rare and will continue to be. The vast majority of escooter and bike users dont want to crash - It $#£□€ hurts when you crash even in a minor bingle. If we educate kids properly on giving way to pedestrians, teach them how to safely pass etc, ped incidents will not increase like they havent massively increased in the last few years while these things have been illegal.
10 is not reasonable for commutig.
Then don't use the shared path.
Pedestrians are entitled to commute safely…
@jv: Share paths are designed to …. share. They are not footpaths. Footpaths are different, they are for feet (and under 16s)
I commute regulalry on sharepaths on a bicycle. I ride over 20km/h and up to 30 if there is noone else around. They are perfectly safe to travel over 20km/h - provided you give pedestraisns decent space, amd slow behind them if there is someone coming the other way and makes it unsafe to overtake.
Not when there is a nitwit riding one…
Better make sure you dont ride one then. ;)
Making commuters go 10km/h because a few kids havent been taught how to use a sharepath is a dumb idea.
@Euphemistic: I think I agree with the 10klm limit being impractical.
My parents live in an over 50's village where the internal speed limit is 10klm p/h.
I swear I've seen old folks on walking frames over taking the cars doing 10klm.
I swear I've seen old folks on walking frames over taking the cars doing 10klm.
I've seen them too !!!!
Any push bike can do more than +20Kmh, unregistered :-o !! and no one cares.
I guess electrons kill bit pedals don't …
On the direct imports: Just pull one jumper to make them go to near 100 !!
Cops better learn NEW pit manoeuvres ?
Cops better learn NEW pit manoeuvres ?
hope they stream the action!
Stone( the film) taut piano wire. New policy coming
Funny, Sydney is already full of them.
Learn to jump out of their way!
buy few now and resale later for profit
How is that going to work? They are currently illegal to use and theres already 1mil in NSW.
Breaking News. Pedestrian dies after collision with electric bike
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/pedestrian-dies-after-collisio…
NSW to Legalise E-Scooters
GOOMS lol!
Are you suggesting if the e-bike had been an e-scooter then there would have been no injury or death?
No,
illegally modified electric bike
There was also an e-scooter crash in Hastings NZ the day before.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/hastings-e-…
Not a good week for those living in towns called Hastings…
Not really relevant to the discussion. Both of those incidents were NOT e-bikes. One was motorcycles, the other was effectively a motorbike, just that it had pedals.
I get that you have skin in the game. So have all victims of these incidents. I can't think of a weaker argument than to claim a physical difference, when the physics per speed and the damage are the same ,or within single digit % identical. BTW you claim that your experience on shared pathways is all good so far.That's a one sided experience. I'd like to hear from the other side on those shared spaces.The NSW govt has caved. Rate payers will wear the harm and pay for the privilege.If you want to go faster than walking on 2 wheels go MC. If you say too dangerous, stip and think about that for just a nano second. Now your wearing pedestrians shoes, where rolling hazards are now in their face.Pretty soon everyone will be pushed to wheeled transport on those pathways to avoid being the walking victim. What a joke. Mini freeways everywhere
there are far more other things to be worried about if you are hanging around Southport and Surfers
Gold Coast in general is so chilled cops don't even care most of the time vs Brisbane enforcing fines for not wearing a helmet
When I was in Japan, riders on ebikes, escooters and even normal bikes were riding on both footpaths and roads also without a helmet. Some were going fast and some slow, it didn't seem to be of any concern there.
People here in Australia have a really weird perception of risk.. I see 2 tons motor vehicles not giving ways to pedestrians and cyclists all the time but we are so concerned but about a human on a light mobility device putting others at risk? The reality is that there are far more car drivers risking everyone else's live every day than a rider risking their own and others. Oh we have mandatory helmet law on cyclists too, even Seattle has repealed the law in 2022…
That's because they are not sharing the road. The road is for vehicles and footpaths for pedestrians. You don't see people on the road or vehicles on footpaths unless they are crossing it.
People have to cross the road all the time. The road is not "for cars". That's automobile manufacturer propaganda.
Look up videos of how streets used to be at the dawn of the automobile age. People walking everywhere, sharing with horses/carts/trams. The only reason people are forced to walk on narrow 1.2m wide strips of concrete is because auto manufacturers rightly realised no one would buy their product if they had to share the streets.
Cultural differences. People in the western-world are pretty stupid tbh. In Japan, you can leave things unlocked & be its generally safe. They also like their cleanliness. Western countries are the opposite.
must be that convict blood
I reckon the convicts were probably less vain and conceited than the modern construct. You knew what you got.
How is anything traffic related in Japan relevant to a discussion about Australia? They also require licensing for bicycles in Japan, but that's just as irrelevant.
You may as well say that people ride Gundams to work.
Gundam Style
Well, Australia has three A's and Japan has 2 A's, so they're sort of similar.
Amazing the bitching against anything electric that transports a person.
Being e-scooters, e-bikes and etc.
BICYCLES (pedal cycle, bike, push-bike, whatever) have been causing injuries and probably deaths when ridden inappropriately.
And they are not registered either, bitches!
Is it sour grapes that the old farts cannot/don't_want to ride anything other that their blobby fuel guzzler 4X4/SUV ????
Don't call ppl bitches champ.
; )
Is it sour grapes that the old farts cannot/don't_want to ride anything other that their blobby fuel guzzler 4X4/SUV ????
My "old fart", had to hand in his licence in 2004 (at 102), (licence renewal was online in 2020 due to Covid, and they offered him the 5 year renewal cos it was cheaper for him even though he was 98.
Sure, he went gangbusters in his 4x4 Landcruiser if his merc saloon wasn't suitable for towing his 28 ft boat, 35 ft caravan, 4m double horse float or 6" regular trailer, 6.5 m surf ski or kayak trailer or 6.5M double jet ski trailer.
So what's your point? Now that he's 103 and had to surrender his cars, he's not entitled to get himself around the place on his electric gopher thing?
Not allowed to nick over to the doctors? How about zip up the shop for a newspaper, some groceries or a bottle of scotch? Damn straight he should remain reclusive inside his house and not meet up around the place with his mates. Even prohibited from buying himself new undies from time to time because you're too stuck up and entitled to share pathways and roads where necessary?
WOT?
My post was about the bitching about e-bikes.
All fine for you 103 years old relative to do whatever he is legally entitled to do. Same for responsible e-bike users. Sharing the road
Good
What could possibly go wrong..
Head injury. Didn't wear a helmet?
Plan to
Anyway I saw many people in Sydney just e-scooting around with crazy speed given it is still illegal at this stage.
Can't imagine they will be slowing down when it is becoming legal.
I love electric scooters but NSW simply does not have enough bike lands or shared paths to make them usable under these circumstances. Either add more bike lands (impossible) so that people can ride scooters as intended, or don't change the law.
This is basically them saying 'everyone's doing it anyway and we can't be arsed stopping them, so we'll just make it semi-legal' which is sort of the opposite of their heavy-handed approach with vaping.
It's not impossible. States/Councils are adding new bike infrastructure all the time. There are plenty of areas where it's safe to ride E-scooters. Having a blanket ban just punishes people who want to do the right thing.
Has to be done eventually as this form of transport is clearly going to grow and grow.
Also 20km/h is much slower than a bicycle can go.
France and other euro countries of the "first world"/"western world" have been doing fine with 25kph max, and 9kph around pedestrians, and society has not collapsed despite allowed escooters and pedestrians to mix.
But fortunately NSW can go through the pain and expense of testing out it's own legislation and ignoring hat others have found and 'battle tested'. /s
The majority of e-bikes and e-scooters in our area of Queensland are:- 1. Ridden by kids under 16. 2. Modified to go way above 25kph (some in excess of 70kph) 3. Ridden in any position across the road. 4. Used to do monos (even between cars). 5. Used while on the phone. 6. Used while ignoring most road rules.
They generally can’t be caught because they ignore police direction, and simply ride through an easement to escape because their’s no way to recognise the bike or the rider.
They need to be registered.
are we going to smash the blues this time?
A bounty might work better
I always see damn bike riders ride on the foot path when they should be riding on road if over 12 years from memorry
And also so inconsiderate they expect walking people to make way for bike by walking on the the grass
Back in 1997, I was selling mobile phones sometimes for my housemate out of his small shop, so I decided to get one, the many dirty looks I got was laughable, it was frowned upon, and now everyone has one. Now the same is happening with my e-scooter which is a life saver because I can no longer ride my bicycle, due to knee and hip problems.
As a pensioner can't afford a car thats not needed and honestly don't miss it. One day many of you will buy and own an e-rideable of some sort. Plus according to Drive website, all the scooters in the world offset Australia's useage 1 million barrels of oil per day, so there is the climate thing, and guess what? less cars means less traffic jams.
About bloody time.
Great news. Yes risks, need better enforcement, but it's absurd these are illegal.
Just need to enforce restriction to bike lane. Banning outright is idiotic - we don't ban all cars due to hoons.
Before these old people mobility scooters were much of a thing,
My mum was waiting her turn in a dress store to pay for her purchases when this lady drove into her and broke her ankle and top of her foot. And in numerous places a lower legs and tarsals and metatarsals. Significant damage to swellings as well and ligament and tendon damage.
Spent monhs of operations, casts, rehabilitation, isolation,stitches, painkillers etc and travel to these facilities to access and treat her. She also had to engage services to help with her daily life until she again become confident.
The incident began a downward spiral and a lack of confidence and fear of shopping (ang going out) independently, she was well into her eighties when this happened and did have people with her.
She has effectively become an agrophobic.
As out elderly population age, the availability for effective transportation diminishes.
Too ma
Ny should not be allowed on our roads meant for cars, probably cannot ride bicycles and not suited to the uncertainty
Ins of public transport.
This does leave a gap in providing them safe networks to use the mobility vehicles a safe infrastructure to utilise to access their living and health requirements.
I sure hope you taught that mobility-scooter operator a lesson. Did you sue?
Nah, lady who hit her didn't look like she had two cents to rub together.
It was just another old lady. She didn't mean to do it.
I don't see much point in legalising other than giving the police / law enforcement more excuses to ignore enforcing the law.
E-scooters are already everywhere. The majority of their riders knowingly and without care break the law when riding them. Since there is close to zero enforcement of the law in this regard, the riders do this with the comfort and knowledge that there is and will be little to no consequences to their dangerous riding.
On a daily basis I see e-scooter riders playing kamikaze with pedestrians on footpaths. Then there are the riders who ride on the road but travel at high speed. I see several riders weekly doing at least 50km/h, matching or overtaking suburban road vehicle traffic while weaving through said traffic when it slows. There is a parent at my child's school who brings their child to school as passenger on an e-scooter. They easily overtake all the road traffic when travelling and I see them at speeds > 40 km/h all the time. And yes, they travel illegally on public roads and footpaths.
I am happy for there to be legalisation if it is accompanied with increased enforcement of the law. Including much greater enforcement of the availability and sale of e-scooters that can break the law. They shouldn't be sold without a speed governor that cuts out the electric motor when their speed reaches the (soon to be) maximum legal speed of 20 km/h.
I just hope I never have one pop out in front of me while pulling out of a driveway. So many close calls already with moron uber workers on bikes.
Pulling out of a driveway safely is your responsibility though. The only danger is if you exit so fast that the rider cannot react by braking or swerving. If you pull out slowly, you will be very visible and easily avoidable. I reverse out into a very tight 1 way street, 2 way for bicycles, with a brick wall blocking my view of both sides of the street. I do that very slowly, never had a close call so I am not sure why you seem to have had "so many close calls"
Because they're are so many idiots up and down my street who are on ebikes and scooters who don't look. No matter how slow I pull out of the driveway.
I drove out my driveway once and stopped at the t intersection 5m down the road to give way. Uber bike decides to go around and was a few cm's from getting destroyed by another car. The point is, so many do not look.
I agree, I wouldn't want that to happen to me either - but this is the situation with pushbikes, skateboarders, rollerskaters, push-scooters, runners, etc.
I know you didn't make this argument, but others say this sort of thing as a justification for banning scooters or whatever rather than just "people need to pay more attention".
It was the ONE thing that I liked about living in NSW and now they've taken it away.
I don't know who to blame
According to JV Jacinta Allen. I'm sure he'll let you borrow his football.
It's not difficult to avoid hitting pedestrians unless you are a complete idiot. That's the problem.
Here's the first of the deluge of copy paste incidents ahead for NSW.
https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/teenager-hospi…
City of Perth to suspend e-scooter hire after death of pedestrian Thanh Phan
The City of Perth is set to suspend the hiring of e-scooters following a fatal collision in the city on the weekend that killed a 51-year-old pedestrian.
The scooter was ridden by a young UK tourist under the influence of alcohol.
Not sure whether this case would hinder the push of e-scooter in NSW.
They said 10km/h on the radio.
20km/h on bicycle paths/lanes and roads
10km/h on shared paths.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/bikes-e…