The Sale of All Non-Kitchen Knives >20cm to Be Banned in Victoria

mapax on 28/05/2025 - 10:46
Last edited 28/05/2025 - 16:50 by 1 other user

The banning of the sale of >20cm non-kitchen knives and machetes goes into effect at midday today in Victoria and in September it will be illegal to own them with fines of more than $47,000 or 2 years imprisonment. This is expected to include all non-kitchen knives such as camping, bushcraft, hunting and horticultural knives unless the government changes the laws between now and September.

How Victoria's machete sale ban will be enforced

Victorians who took part in the Fiskars deal or any of the other camping knife deals that are >20cm will have to surrender them when the amnesty begins or face excessively harsh penalties.

These laws will do little to stop criminals from using kitchen knives, hatchets, buying interstate, or simply making crude machetes from flat bar. It is only going to have a major impact on law abiding citizens.

As a park ranger/natural resource manager it’s common to see >20cm knives being used for hand weeding and machetes/brush hooks being used to clear brush such as kunzea when working around sound sensitive areas/animals.

Update from ABC-

The government previously said a machete was longer than 20cm, but have since said knives under that length could also come under the ban

General Discussion Knife

Comments

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          • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 17:39

            @SlickMick: I am reasonably certain that if you inflict any harm on another person, it won't make any difference if you use an object you're legally allowed to have or one that you don't.

            You will still have committed an offence. The legal status of the object you used may just influence how many other offences or aggravating factors you can also be charged with.

            But sure, if you want to go on a rampage swinging your baseball bat at Westfield's, make sure to let us know how that works out for you.

            I am sure that an element of common sense will be applied once the dust settles. Knife sales (and other things) are also banned in Qld, but they don't make us trim our garden hedges with our teeth.

    • Chandler on 30/05/2025 - 16:21

      The (understandable, IMO) concern with laws like these is the application. Carrying a knife in public is generally illegal, in my understanding. Now owning such knives will be illegal, and as OP pointed out there are a number of acceptable and normal situations where one would want to own such an "illegal" knife.

      Now as I believe you suspect, these people won't be getting trouble with the police over the ownership of these knives, as the police will be unaware of said ownership. But if they were to ever come across the police for any reason: noise complaint, traffic stop, etc; and had the knives nearby: recently gardening, travelling home from camping, etc; then they could have the book thrown at them, even though they weren't "doing anything wrong".

      • Protractor on 30/05/2025 - 16:30

        Well if the cops come out in the next week and say we need 500 more cops, I'll review my support.As it is they'll be too busy targeting their know targets to worry about gardening Australia or All For Adventure, or nanna & pop chopping up their rogue bamboo. Given the backflip on the emergency services levy, to grovel for votes, this law probably won't last, anyway

  • DingoBilly on 28/05/2025 - 11:07
    -2

    It's a good change IMO. Just helps reduce issues and crime a little it more.

    I'm sure there'll be exemptions for people like yourself or alternative solutions.

    • jv on 28/05/2025 - 11:14
      +28

      It's a good change IMO

      A "good change" would be to keep these criminals in jail and not letting them out of jail on bail to offend again…

      If anybody dies as a result of someone out on bail, then I think the premier should also be charged for being an accessory to the crime.

      • Protractor on 28/05/2025 - 11:21
        -1

        I can hear the posse forming, as we speak.The good news is you will have a win. More jails and remand centres.The latter closer to suburbia. You could get a gardening gig there, on the side?

        • jv on 28/05/2025 - 11:32
          -4

          More jails and remand centres.

          We already have enough jails that are sitting empty thanks to this incompetent government.

          • Protractor on 28/05/2025 - 19:15

            @jv: Plenty of boys in black in Vic just wanting a regimented lifestyle. Here's a win win staring the govt in the face

          • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 13:45

            @jv: Where are these empty jails?

            • jv on 30/05/2025 - 13:49

              @Muppet Detector:

              Where are these empty jails?

              In Vic.

              https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/law-crime/2025/03/1…

              "the Victorian government has poured at least $36 million into keeping the empty prison staffed."

              • Protractor on 30/05/2025 - 13:58
                -1

                @jv: So not empty

                • jv on 30/05/2025 - 14:12

                  @Protractor:

                  So not empty

                  https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/law-crime/2025/03/1…

                  Mass defects at $1 billion empty prison

                  This government couldn't run a chook raffle…

                  • Protractor on 30/05/2025 - 16:32

                    @jv: Bird flu risk.
                    Any major project built by tax payers is a money sink. (no matter what flavour political party). Hospitals,roads,bridges,airports,rail are all a classic bottomless pit for contractors

                  • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 18:11

                    @jv:

                    This government couldn't run a chook raffle…

                    Crikey! I see what you mean!

                    Why haven't they recalled the initial construction company to complete construction?

                    Are jails exempt from building guarantees or something?

                    Interesting, that after they pay another company $1.5 million dollars to satisfy the inspectors, they're going to close some other Victorian prison down.

                    Says in the link, Victorian crime is decreasing and this new jail isn't needed whereas that money really needed to be spent on social housing and preventative programs to keep criminals from offending in the first place.

                    So what is it jv? Have you folk got enough jails or what? Seems like you have enough prison officers anyway.

              • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 18:02

                @jv:

                In Vic.

                https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/law-crime/2025/03/1…

                Apparently we need to fix that jail. If we detain anybody there before it is fixed, someone will be clutching their pearls over human rights violations or some such thing.

                Horror if we engage some of these offenders to help fix the thing. But wait, that will cause some delicate little petal to wring their hands in angst.

                Or perish the thought we let em in there as is. Just give em an umbrella and some gum boots. If it leaks enough, they'll fix that right up.

        • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 13:45

          We can't build houses. How in the hell are we going to build more jails?

          Is Naurau empty yet?

          • jv on 30/05/2025 - 13:53

            @Muppet Detector:

            How in the hell are we going to build more jails?

            They are already built, but not being used.

          • Protractor on 30/05/2025 - 13:59

            @Muppet Detector: If we can't build jails, how can we build football stadiums in Tassie and Olympic venues in QLD?

      • shiver on 28/05/2025 - 15:46
        -4

        You'll be happy to know then that alongside the ban on machetes, the State Government also announced plans to work on bail reform.

        The problem with youth crime (which is what triggered the machete ban), is that research consistently indicates that young offenders become a higher risk for committing violent offences if they get sent to prison. Its expensive (and morally questionable) to lock teenagers up for the rest of their lives, so if anything we need better rehabilitation programs for at risk youth

        • jv on 28/05/2025 - 16:37
          +4

          the State Government also announced plans to work on bail reform.

          This has been an issue for the last decade…

        • jv on 28/05/2025 - 16:38
          +7

          young offenders become a higher risk for committing violent offences if they get sent to prison.

          They're already committing them in public now…

          Get them off the streets.

          • Protractor on 28/05/2025 - 19:16
            +2

            @jv: and onto the bike paths on e-bikes

          • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 20:00
            +3

            @jv: It costs $153,895 per prisoner per year in incarceration costs. You can do a lot of diversion practices for that sort of money. It also means you can create a long term tax payer. The lock em up and throw away the key mob certainly like to spend a lot of tax payer money.

            I don’t disagree with getting them off the streets but we need a better plan that just putting them in jail. We need to figure out what works for diversion. Given the history of new migrants this is likely to settle down as they integrate into society.

            • Protractor on 28/05/2025 - 20:06
              -2

              @try2bhelpful: Perhaps let's start with the "lock them up , & ditch the key mob" paying extra tax to pay for their gulag mentality

              • marcozmitch on 29/05/2025 - 00:02
                -2

                @Protractor: I am not in Victoria:
                But I wonder if there is some Island Paradise we could send them to?
                Somewhere there are wide open spaces and plenty of Pioneering opportunities?
                Somewhere they can work hard for a living and become farmers, with lots of sheep and maybe not presently occupied by any significant people.
                If those insignificant people, can't read or write, and seem backwards, then they probably are.
                They certainly don't deserve to own that land.
                Why the hell should they?
                Everyone needs to be treated not only equal, but more than equal.
                Unless they do bad things>> see line 2.

                • Protractor on 29/05/2025 - 09:56

                  @marcozmitch: So just like the invasion of Straya and the genocide since?

                  • marcozmitch on 29/05/2025 - 19:39
                    +1

                    @Protractor: I was clearly indicating that I don't feel close to where the crime occurred, so perhaps my attitude would be different "being in the middle of it."

                    The rest certainly was a reference to what happened historically in Straya and representing the mindset from England etc., perhaps?

                    I do think just banning large metal objects does seem pretty silly on the outside of it.
                    I think if police "find" a metal baseball bat in your boot, it is not a coincidence.
                    But I don't know if people are getting away with crime due to police needing warrants, that are not happening due to legal sticking points?

                    On the outside unless people are actually doing crimes with certain metal objects, I do think it is very strong to outright ban said object.
                    It does seem banning metal objects on an ongoing basis, just because someone did something bad with them on a certain big or small number of occasions may or may not help the situation.
                    But I am aware I may be missing facts or misunderstanding the context.

                    • Protractor on 29/05/2025 - 20:09

                      @marcozmitch: It would not have got to this stage if the machete was deemed a clear and present weapon of choice, by the problem at hand.I support it. I also hate over legislating. But I hate doing nothing, a lot less than I hate just forcing more police on society.Every time we do that we end up with more trigger happy power junkies.Crime prevention is disappearing.Policing has become too adversarial in Straya. NZ shits on us, and even they are changing cultures via changes in applicant quality.

            • corvusman on 29/05/2025 - 09:10
              +4

              @try2bhelpful: Make them work. Make this from voluntary to mandatory. Fabrication, farmin, services - gazillion of opportunities there.
              Pay them fair amount, take the necessary cut for their upkeep and put the rest into their super/savings account.
              Let them work out their crimes and contribute to the society.

              • Grunntt on 29/05/2025 - 13:16
                +2

                @corvusman:

                Make them work. Make this from voluntary to mandatory. Fabrication, farmin, services - gazillion of opportunities there.

                So which business owner/farmer etc is going to put their hand up to employ violent criminals (ie that have been found guilty by a court that would impose this work sentence)?

                It's usually the people who will have no contact with them that make these suggestions for someone else to be responsible for.

                • corvusman on 29/05/2025 - 14:15
                  +1

                  @Grunntt: You would be surprised:
                  https://www.langikalkalangus.vic.gov.au/
                  https://www.landmate.vic.gov.au/
                  and many more options, both on internal and external job sites in Vic and other states.

                  Granted that not all criminals are fit for all types of work, and some people absolutely need to be isolated permanently, but majority is more than fit for different types of work. Which at least can greatly reduce the burden on correctional system.

                  Where there's a will, there's a way.

                  • Grunntt on 31/05/2025 - 11:29

                    @corvusman:

                    Langi Kal Kal Angus is located in the rolling hills of Trawalla just east of Beaufort, Victoria. The 1090Ha property is a minimum-security transitional prison

                    I very much doubt the criminals being discussed here should be in a minimum security unit.

      • mrvaluepack on 29/05/2025 - 11:22
        +1

        Why premier? I know you are super anti-labor but shouldn't it be the judges that granted them bail instead that should be charged.

      • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 17:56

        I understand what you're saying about bail, but it's hard to remand someone on bail before they've been convicted of a crime.

        The whole point of bail is to provide assure that the offender will be available for future court proceedings, it's rarely used as a method of detainment.

        See, in Australia, for most crimes we have this whole "innocent until proven guilty" principle which there really is no way of getting around.

        Therefor, incarcerating somebody before they have been found guilty ranks pretty high up there in abuse of human rights territory.

        An additional danger of detaining people before sentencing occurs is that a) they may be found not guilty at all so should not be subject to false imprisonment and b) if they are found guilty, their sentence may exceed the length of time they've already served incarcerated which again is a breach of their human rights.

        We have very few protected rights in Australia, but the High Court has declared that our freedom is our most protected right and can only be read down as a last resort where it is in conflict with a superior law (Momcilovic v Q)

        We can't generally go around incarcerating people for crimes we think they committed. We're really only supposed to incarcerate those who we can prove have committed an offence through the due process of law.

        If they reoffend whilst on bail, then the courts have greater power to detain the offender (but this isn't absolute),

        And a premier (or other) cannot be aligned with a decision made by the courts - we've got that whole separation of powers thing going on.

    • Settero on 28/05/2025 - 11:17
      +3

      i dont think it would reduce crime, criminal will find replacement tool, it will just stop a specific crime that used x tool instead of y tool.

      i will likely never buy a machete, i still dont think it should be criminalized as it has a genuine use, and would be way way to restrictive to license people for

      • apsilon on 28/05/2025 - 15:46
        +10

        Exactly right. The object isn't the issue, the individual is. This type of person if they can't get a machete they'll use an axe, or a hammer, or a baseball bat, or a crow bar, or a hatchet, or cleaver, or a screwdriver, or a breaker bar, or a stick, or a brick or anything else they can pick up and wield.

      • jv on 29/05/2025 - 00:26
        +1

        criminal will find replacement tool

        Ryobi?

      • ozb1ozb2ozb3 on 29/05/2025 - 10:49

        Isn't it what they said when Howard was trying to restrict guns after the massacre.

        • OzBarAnon on 29/05/2025 - 11:35
          +1

          The reason we're having these machete/knife restrictions right now is because these bladed weapons are what have replaced firearms. Crime in VIC is at an all-time high and the firearms restrictions haven't been loosened.

    • Danstar on 28/05/2025 - 12:12
      +1

      It's a change that won't have any effect on crime rates or gang violence…

      So yes, good change, but machetes aren't the issue here

    • Pussqunt on 29/05/2025 - 14:43

      Have you used tools to do reno's? Most are designed to manipulate materials harder than humans.

      If you were serious, you would need to ban everything from framing hammers, to precision screw drivers, ceramic plates, most home cleaning products, trees and any type of vehicle.

      You can probably keep cigarettes though, as second had smoke and torture is not what we are trying to stop here. Just public attacks with items that can kill.

  • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 11:22
    +10

    I don’t think the cops are going to care if you aren’t threatening other people with your sharp objects. However, it gives the cops some leeway to confiscate the sharp objects if you are using them in a threatening manner or you are considered batshit crazy.

    So you say it is “expected to include” but you don’t actually know? Maybe we wait to see how this will be managed long term.

    Personally I think the whole situation is sad. I don’t understand the mentality of people who are violent against others. They need to deal with the root cause of what is causing this insanity. However then you get the tossers who complain about “brain washing” and “woke agendas”. Incarcerating people is incredibly expensive and it turns kids into criminals. We need to get to these kids before they become monsters and that starts at primary schools and supporting families.

    • pharkurnell on 28/05/2025 - 11:32
      +4

      The issue is giving them a stern finger wave and talking to isn't working.

      They know they will be let out Bail then given on a 'community corrections order' and a heroes welcome from their deadshit mates.

      You have to feel for the cops as many of these situations "the offender was known to police"… yet they are free to do it again.

      • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 11:44
        +3

        I’m not talking about a stern talking to I’m talking about real support and the concept of respect being drummed into them from an early age. I also don’t have an issue with tough bail laws for violent crimes but they are very expensive bandaids. It is really difficult for people who are criminals to reintegrate back into society and I really don’t want my taxes supporting these guys rotating in and out of prison for the rest of their lives. Spend some money up front to try to address root causes rather than throwing it away on prisons.

    • mapax on 28/05/2025 - 16:49
      -1

      So you say it is “expected to include” but you don’t actually know?

      The government has conducted a snap ban on the sale of knives without even giving clear examples. They have now provided images but also changed the definitions in the past 12 hours to be even more restrictive.

      The state government says a machete is a large broad-bladed cutting knife.

      Kitchen knives are not part of this definition.

      The government previously said a machete was longer than 20cm, but have since said knives under that length could also come under the ban.

      • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 19:37
        +2

        So you are still in conjecture land here. Let’s see what the final legislation ends up being.

    • trapper on 28/05/2025 - 18:14
      +3

      I don’t think the cops are going to care if …

      No that's not good enough.

      Honest people shouldn't be put in a position where they have to break the law and rely on police discretion.

      It's already illegal to threaten other people with any object. Why not just use the existing laws.

      • Protractor on 28/05/2025 - 19:19
        -3

        and wannabe vigilantes shouldn't be telling police how to police to interpret the law. Nor should we (as it is right now) try to let other violent vigilante language or actions violate our social order.It's crystal clear that the language of the right is ramping up to disrupt,agitate,divide,stigmatise and incite.

      • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 19:39
        +1

        This allows weapons to be seized befure things get threatening. I prefer the cops have this discretionary right. A guy threshing his block out the back of beyond isn’t the issue, a bunch of guys walking down Brunswick St Fitzroy with machetes rings alarms bells.

        • trapper on 28/05/2025 - 22:03
          +2

          This allows weapons to be seized befure…

          Weapons are already illegal.

          • jv on 29/05/2025 - 00:27

            @trapper:

            Weapons are already illegal.

            The issue is Victoria's slack laws and enforcement…

          • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 19:16

            @trapper:

            Weapons are already illegal.

            Then I don't understand what your problem is?

            If weapons are already illegal, how does this new proposal actually affect you?

            Can't carry a machete now. Still can't carry it when specific legislation is introduced… so???

            Honest people shouldn't be put in a position where they have to break the law and rely on police discretion.

            Apparently if you're in possession of anything defined as a weapon, you're already being a very naughty boy. Doesn't seem like any police discretion is even needed?

            • trapper on 30/05/2025 - 19:23

              @Muppet Detector: Because they are making non-weapons illegal - to purchase or own at all.

              Like gardening tool's for example - kept at your own home, and only used for gardening.

              It's already illegal to carry these around in public or use as weapons.

              Soon it will also be illegal to use them for gardening.

              Which is pointless and stupid, makes innocent use of a gardening item illegal with years of prison time.

              • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 19:35

                @trapper: I understand what you're saying. I've become quite perplexed about the reasoning for this proposal so I've just been having a Google.

                Apparently, as others said, it is already illegal to be in possession of weapons in general.

                This new legislation aims to address the sale and supply of these particular weapons (machetes) because they have been identified as the favourite go to piece of weapon art that is currently available.

                In theory, by limiting the easy availability of the machetes, there should be a choke in supply, effectively reducing the number circulating in the community and making it harder for individuals to access for unlawful purposes.

                Google tells me the main machete wielding offenders are youths, so this is effectively addressing the access that youth have to them.

                The current focus on the machete is because of the recent incidents and public perception that they are being used in disproportionately in certain crimes.

                So for now, it looks like our chain saws and hedge trimmers are safe, until of course these ratbag miscreants decide to arm themselves with those instead.

                • trapper on 30/05/2025 - 20:18

                  @Muppet Detector:

                  because they have been identified as the favourite go to piece of weapon art that is currently available

                  But they are not even the favorite. Knives are the favorite by far, which are actually exempt from this new law.

        • mapax on 30/05/2025 - 14:04
          +1

          In the past, as it wasn't an offence to carry such an object, the police couldn't do anything until after it was used to offend.

          This is false. Where are you getting your information from?

          The current laws according to crime stoppers Victoria

          You can go to jail for:

          1 year for carrying a knife.
          5 years for threatening to injure someone.
          5 years for recklessly injuring someone.
          10 years for threatening to kill someone.
          10 years for intentionally injuring someone.
          15 years for recklessly causing serious injury to someone.
          20 years for intentionally causing serious injury to someone.
          Up to 2 years for selling a knife to someone aged under 18 years
          Up to 25 years for murder.
          You can be fined upwards of $46,154 for selling a knife to someone under 18 years.

    • freefall101 on 28/05/2025 - 18:19
      +1

      The cops already have the leeway though. You can't carry a pocket knife or box cutter in your pocket unless you have a legitimate reason to have it, threatening someone with any blade can result in years in prison. The laws are pretty harsh on the matter (and rightfully so, very few people actually need to carry a knife around).

      I don't have a problem with the new laws, limiting access to more dangerous knives isn't a bad thing, but I really expect them to do anything. The wahoos in the recent incident are up for years in prison for simply acting threateningly with a knife. It could have been a bread knife and the same laws apply.

      And where do we go from here? Next attach will be a bunch of idiots with hatchets, cleavers and random sharpened bits of metal. Still completely illegal to carry in public, use as a weapon, threaten people with, but do we just keep expanding the list?

    • marcozmitch on 29/05/2025 - 00:09

      I am not sure this applies to kids, whose parents were taking drugs or drinking alcohol when they were in the womb.
      I am not sure what solution applies to these individuals.
      As for PTSD/war nerosis from overseas experiences, I don't know how long this take to heal either.
      The "root cause" is not always so easy to define or solve. And it might be lifelong.

    • OzBarAnon on 29/05/2025 - 11:41

      "They need to deal with the root cause…We need to get to these kids before they become monsters…"
      Do you actually have a tangible action plan of what to change and how to change it? Because as far as I can tell, it's just empty words. "We need to do [something]" but that [something] is always vague and inactionable. What do you mean by 'supporting families'? What are the specific actions that you want implemented.

  • pharkurnell on 28/05/2025 - 11:28
    +2

    Will there be a buy back scheme for those who already own them?

    • jv on 29/05/2025 - 00:28
      -3

      Yes, Jacinta will create another tax to pay for them…

  • GordonD on 28/05/2025 - 11:33
    +12

    This prohibition amounts to trying to solve a problem by addressing the symptom. Whilever the underlying problem continues the individuals involved will just keep finding some other weapon.

    A few people want to do something bad with something. The government bans that something, imposing huge penalties. But the fact is that most people who want one of those somethings wants it to do something useful to them with it, and have no intention of harming anyone, and never will in their life. The problem is the few people.

    Certain social factors create those few people. They create gangs of violent young men.

    • Duckie2hh on 28/05/2025 - 11:35

      So what's the solution?

      • stuffandthat on 28/05/2025 - 11:40
        +11

        Jail. Harsh sentences. Threat of deportation for the offender and their family if they're under 18.

        • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 11:47
          +2

          Really? You want to deport all the family for what one member has done? Do you also support incarcerating yourself if your brother commits a crime?

          • pharkurnell on 28/05/2025 - 11:56
            +16

            @try2bhelpful: If thats what it takes to scare them into being a decent human being not bashing people in their homes,stabbing people etc -then yes I support deporting the problem - make it go away

            many of these people come here for our way of life - I can understand that.. but then try and turn this place into the shithole they came from.

            The way it is at the moment isnt working and is at a dangerous level out there.. They dont fear the law at all and dont give a shit about it either.

            • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 12:09
              -1

              @pharkurnell: The vast majority of violent crimes in this country is committed by white male citizens. I repeat my question will you be happy to be incarcerated for a crime your brother commits? If not then stop picking on refugee families because of what one member does.

              I’m over 60 and have seen the same knee jerk reaction to every level of immigrant that has come in. The Irish,Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, and now the Sudanese. Apparently they were all crooks who just imported violent crimes. Funnily enough after teething problems all these groups settled down.

              • Danstar on 28/05/2025 - 12:13
                +8

                @try2bhelpful:

                The vast majority of violent crimes in this country is committed by white male citizens

                As a whole yes. As a % of the population….you'd find the numbers are very skewed one way

                • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 12:22

                  @Danstar: Yes they are. However if you want to take about % then the real skew is towards men. Do you intend to get draconian on all men because there are a few violent males out there?

                  • Danstar on 28/05/2025 - 13:42
                    +5

                    @try2bhelpful: Any serious crime should be dealt with accordingly, regardless of race, sex or background story.

                    The difference between a citizen and an immigrant is, you can't give the threat of deportation to a citizen.

                    Do you intend to just leave all criminals alone because you feel sorry for them?

              • pharkurnell on 28/05/2025 - 12:25
                +7

                @try2bhelpful: Sometimes life isnt fair…

                So lets just keep going the way it is with nightly home invasions bashings, groups of youth robbing people at shopping centers, nightly car theft…. Sounds like the Australia I want to live in. Some of these criminals are on their 10th+ community corrections orders.. they dont care.They have no fear of the law as it treats then now.

                Friend of mine was a cop in victoria, he said to me that he was nearly on a first name basis with some of them people you mention from Endevour Hills area.. Car chases after home invasions etc They used to taunt him that they would be back out in no time. He had arrested some of them many times for serious crimes…. he gave up as it was a waste of time

                FWIW I'm so similar age.. not sure what that has to do with anything..
                anyway I'll leave it there as we obviously have different ideas of this

                • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 19:44
                  +1

                  @pharkurnell: This is a very small minority of mostly young males who are committing the crimes. As I’ve repeatedly said deal with the root causes and stop others going down the same path. We have a lot of money we could divert from incarceration to do this. Hundreds of thousands of dollars per person incarcerated for any significant time.

              • jv on 29/05/2025 - 00:29
                +2

                @try2bhelpful:

                The vast majority of violent crimes in this country is committed by white male citizens.

                Not with machetes…

              • GordonD on 29/05/2025 - 11:28
                +1

                @try2bhelpful: You have just demonstrated my point. One generation in all these groups were associated with the crime problems at the time. Civil society broke down in Italy after WW2. And we ended up with the "mafia" and the drug dealing. There was the civil war in Lebanon. And look at the names of so many of the criminals shooting each other, dealing drugs, and of the members of the bikie gangs now. Then the problem was Sudan.

                And, yes, in another generation in they all settled down. As the saying goes, it takes a village/community to raise a child. And when there isn't one there that they feel they belong to they look for one, and end up a gang.

                Look at studies like the Dunedin longitudinal study. Lots of kids go off the rails in small or big ways. And most of them find their way back and become solid citizens. The problem is we don't know which to go easy on, so we don't damage their prospects of growing up and being good citizens, and which we need to crack down on because they're never going to be.

              • OzBarAnon on 29/05/2025 - 12:11
                +2

                @try2bhelpful: "The vast majority of violent crimes in this country is committed by white male citizens." Well for a country that is still majority white, that's to be expected. But do you have a source for immigrant groups supposedly settling down? I can only find government statistics for offenders' country of birth, not race/ethnicity. As a result, a second-gen Chinese would be recorded the same as a white Australian whose family has been here since it was a colony.

                Moreover, why should people be expected to put up with 'teething problems' from foreign groups? Go ahead and tell everyone who has had their stores robbed or their homes broken into "Just put up with it. It'll stop eventually." I'm sure that's of great solace to them.

              • tenpercent on 29/05/2025 - 15:31

                @try2bhelpful:

                The vast majority of violent crimes in this country is committed by white male citizens.

                Source?

              • ajr5k on 30/05/2025 - 12:34

                @try2bhelpful: "The vast majority of violent crimes in this country is committed by white male citizens."

                Per Capita mean much to you?

                For example:
                Statistics show Australians born in Sudan make up 0.1 per cent of Victoria's total population and constitute 1% of alleged offenders in Victoria
                This doesn't mean that Sudanese Australians commit less crime than most - In fact, it means Sudanese Australians are committing magnitudes more crime per person than the rest of the population, as if it was not the case, they would make up around 0.1% of alleged offenders in Victoria. This means they are generally becoming an "alleged offender" at a rate of 10x the average.

            • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 14:01

              @pharkurnell:

              many of these people come here for our way of life - I can understand that.. but then try and turn this place into the shithole they came from.

              So what's the solution for our home grown thugs?

          • stuffandthat on 28/05/2025 - 12:45
            +7

            @try2bhelpful: If the families can't control their kids then they should be held accountable too. Enough is enough.

            • airzone on 28/05/2025 - 12:54

              @stuffandthat: How can you expect methanie and methaniel to be looking after their kids when they're busy with other things?

              • stuffandthat on 28/05/2025 - 12:59

                @airzone: There's things in place for when Methanie/Methanial won't be responsible for their kids. Foster care etc.

                • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 15:02

                  @stuffandthat: As I said as long as it applies to children of citizens as well then fair enough. Your kid misbehaves you go to jail as well. People here will sing a totally different tune if that was proposed. This whole this started because some people are complaining they can’t get their sharp things.

                  • BartholemewH on 29/05/2025 - 00:26

                    @try2bhelpful: I will share the rap with any immediate member of my family that committs a violent crime. In writing. Not sure why you are so certain the silent majority of Australians from good backgrounds wouldn't be confident enough to do that.

          • trapper on 28/05/2025 - 18:15
            +2

            @try2bhelpful: He said deport, not incarcerate.

            • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 19:40
              -7

              @trapper: Same, same but different. It is employing the equivalent treatment. I notice he won’t apply the same principle.

              • trapper on 28/05/2025 - 22:02
                +2

                @try2bhelpful: It's not the same at all.

                • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 23:00
                  -2

                  @trapper: Actually it is exactly the same. You are punishing people for what their family does.

                  • jv on 29/05/2025 - 00:33
                    +3

                    @try2bhelpful:

                    You are punishing people for what their family does.

                    If it helps decrease the problem, then it should be looked at…

                  • Danstar on 29/05/2025 - 09:23
                    +2

                    @try2bhelpful: We're talking about children. Not all family.

                    Who should be accountable for children committing violent/serious crimes?

                    Right now, no one is accountable. Something has to give.

                    • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 14:13

                      @Danstar: People get all butt hurt if someone even mentions corporal punishment despite it still being legal in some states.

                      Parents and caregivers don't have enough rights to discipline their children.

                      Want to make someone accountable? You've got to give those someones the power to be effective.

                      And it's about far more than smacking a child. As caregivers, we have been so handicapped by ineffective practises and policies it's through sheer good luck that we don't have more kids behaving inappropriately.

          • mitt on 29/05/2025 - 18:45
            +4

            @try2bhelpful: Yes.

            If someone here on a visa has a kid & that kid is a violent criminal, the entire family can have their visas cancelled.

            Parents are responsible for their children.

        • Muppet Detector on 30/05/2025 - 13:59

          Jail. Harsh sentences. Threat of deportation for the offender and their family if they're under 18.

          Deport to where?

      • GordonD on 28/05/2025 - 11:48
        +5

        I was just going to edit my posting, but I see you've already responded.

        I'll give you two examples of what I'm talking about.

        One is remote Aboriginal communities. It seems like a good idea to send young Aboriginals back to country. But there's no jobs there. There's no hope. And as a result they are the most violent lawless places in this country. Theft, murder, DV. But we ignore it, until "our" police kill one of "them".

        Another is bringing refugees here from countries where civil order has broken down. It seems like a good idea. But their kids don't have the language or the schooling and can't get jobs, and they end up in gangs fighting each other in the shopping centres. And when they grow up they become drug dealing bikies.

        Good intentions alone don't always produce good results. It takes more.

        • Duckie2hh on 28/05/2025 - 11:57
          -1

          Okay so blame the immigrants. Gotcha.

          https://www.jobsandskills.gov.au/publications/towards-national-jobs-and-skills-roadmap-summary/current-skills-shortages#:~:text=Analysis%20of%20current%20skills%20shortages,Skills%20Priority%20List%20(SPL).

        • try2bhelpful on 28/05/2025 - 12:04
          -3

          People need to be provided with support in all situations. Aboriginal communities are an issue that we really need them onboard to sort out. We haven’t been good at that to date.

          The vast majority of refugees do not indulge in violence and don’t grow up to be drug dealing bikies. The Vietnamese community is considered very law aboding now but early on they had their fair share of high profile machete violence issues as well. I suspect most of this is going to be a temporary issue until they settle down into their place in society.

          Frankly if we really want to see violent crimes plummet we would round up all men between 14 and 60 and put them in a compound overnight and only let them out to go to work whilst wearing an ankle bracelet and miked for sound. I will guarantee that violent crime will reduce by 80% if you do that. However, that isn’t very fair or practical. Maybe the question you should be asking is why are so many men predisposed to violence rather than singling out the “others” you think are the issue. However, frankly we need to get to the guys who are leading the gangs not the foot soldiers at the bottom. The foot soldiers can always be replaced it you don’t fix the underlying conditions.

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