ABC reporting that the Derrimut Gyms owner has a tax debt of $11m.
I guess now we know the reason for all the recent membership deals. It sounds like old mate is running the clock out while he has a hail marry attempt at challenging the bill in the federal court. Glad I passed on the recent $200 annual membership.
Derrimut 24:7 Gym owner Nikolaos Solomos alleged to owe $11 million in unpaid taxes
This practice is more common than most people think.
I was doing some consulting/accounting work on the side for a family friend's business and they had racked up hundreds and thousands worth of ATO debt (PAYG/GST). When I confronted the previous accountant he basically said "the business had to survive - would you have paid the debt or keep the business afloat??"
:\
damn
"Would you rather trade whilst insolvent or go ahead with the inevitable bankruptcy now?"
These businesses are probably already on monthly bas anyway
The ATO needs be harsher and start bankruptcy proceedings against companies with a tax debt past a few months.
All they do is send the cash out of the business and leave it a big debt laden shell when the ATO does come to bankrupt it. So many examples of property developers in the news who do exactly this, full of debt, remove all the assets, bail, close up shop… Reopen a new business with his mum as the director now, rinse repeat
The ATO will automatically offer a payment plan for debts under $1M. It gets harder above that level. This is not advice lol.
I concur, this is it.
As the businesses get larger, depending on how they are paid, whether the business is cyclical or not, cash or accruel gst, macro economic conditions, the cashflow gets more difficult to handle. Debt from payg withheld/gst is often the last thing on the business owners mind. Wages first, Suppliers, Rent 1st.
This is why we have companies, otherwise no one will start businesses. Small business account for half a trillion dollars of revenue a year and are about 95% of all businesses in Australia.
There isn't a business guideline handbook that is taught because you enter business.
Holy moly
How does one resolve a life problem like this
By hitting the gym? :-)
Facebook up, hit the lawyer, delete the gym.
Bend over.
Lift big get big
Step 1: File for bankruptcy
Step 2: Go to Bali for 3 months
Step 3: open a NEW gym called Gerrimut
Step 4: Profit
how come this country allow those kind of action?
At least we don't make them President.
@Baysew: i used to tell kids that someone else doing something bad or stupid isnt a proper justification- but yes at least we dont make them president
We don't.
You're asking why it's possible to run scams, in a country built on scams?
@outlander: yeah should have put /s at the end.
i read lots news about some business doing scams for example childcare without real children but they claimed gov support for each etc. and dont talk about those doggy developers….
I don't think bankruptcy excuses ATO or govt debt.
Illegal for bankrupts to leave the country
Surely this gym owner guy wouldn't do anything illegal, would he?
@Bruceflix: Just like they blocked Christopher Skase, Paul Leroy, Chaim Gheron, etc?
Ok perhaps there are more serious checks in place now and this individual will be blocked from departing the country. However my point was that criminals don't care about what's legal and what's illegal. Just because it's illegal to flee doesn't mean he wouldn't try his best.
@Bruceflix: Wonderful then. That means the law had no effect on criminals until it's actually enforced.
@Crow K: Do you always make up your own stuff and post it as if someone else said that? Or is today an exception?
I never said "what's the point of having laws…"
What I actually said was that something is illegal doesn't mean criminals won't do it and even cited some names of people who were bankrupt and fled the country.
I was emphasising the fact that laws are not always enough but enforcement of those laws will be necessary to see any benefit.
@CocaKoala: Thanks for letting us know then, I suppose?
Up until you said that we had naturally assumed that if something is illegal then criminals wouldn't do it / we also were operating under the mistaken basis that laws are always enough etc etc
we had naturally assumed
Who is we? It was just you making those assumptions. Given all votes were positive until you showed up, everyone else was able to understand what I stated clearly.
@CocaKoala: Able to understand? You think my criticism of "insights" like
That means the law had no effect on criminals until it's actually enforced.
are because they're difficult to understand?
Not that they're painfully obvious?
@Crow K: What a joke. That insight was posted after you posted your initial "criticism". Timestamps don't lie, tosser.
@CocaKoala: It's another example of your so-called insight, and I quoted it directly instead of paraphrasing it so that you wouldn't get confused this time.
Anyway, thanks for the evaluation. Obviously I respect it given the keen analysis you have already displayed thus far.
@CocaKoala: I'm just sorry calling me tosser didn't make the hurt go away 😢
Don't worry chief, if I'm wrong then all your ideas today were insightful and clever
Maybe you are the intelligent one after all! Shall we go with that and have a nice big smile and feel better?
@Crow K: I am feeling good, thank you. Do whatever you need to though without seeking my permission.
Who owns the gym building?
This guy phoenixes
You shout:
I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!!!!
You can't just say it, you have to declare it.
Liquidate all of your assets. I doubt they own the equipment if they are that far in debt
lol we all knew this gym was dodgy
I always thought it was a bikies gym by the looks of the clientele.
*cash only
In other words owes 11m to taxpayers.
Yes
Yep, I lent them a lobster.
Not paying your gst or your payg… Yes you are borrowing from the tax payers
User name checks out.
Well I got downvoted for saying they weren't going to last long. We all knew it was coming.
ABC reporting that the Derrimut Gyms owner has a tax debt of $11m.
They must be making huge profits then….
It’s got nothing to do with profits
Derrimut Health & Fitness and Derrimut 24:7 Gym (SA) have not paid it the full amounts owed in tax that was supposed to be withheld from employee wages, superannuation and GST.
It sounds like what is owing has nothing to do with profits - it is the the tax and super the gym owner took out of employees pay packets and neglected to pass on to the ATO, as well as GST the owner collected from customers on its sales which it also failed to pass on to the ATO.
took out of employees pay packets and neglected to pass on to the ATO
How did that get to $11m ???
Who did the bookeeping? The work experience kid ????
@jv: Ballpark, 27 locations, 5 full time staff on 70k is 2mil (probably marginally lower salaries, or fewer staff, but with part time personal trainers, etc it's probably on the low side). 27 locations, if we assume average gym revenue per year is 400k just GST is more than 1 mil. Article says it's from Sept 2022, so three years - pretty much checks out if you add in the 1.4 mil personal tax debt.
Thank you JV for confirming with us the extent of your tax knowledge, we will factor this in to your shared thoughts in the future
They must be making huge profits then….
Actually this was my initial thought (before reading about the tax owed on income to staff and gst)….how are they making a profit of $37m (assuming business tax rate is 30%) on $200 yearly memberships lol?
Straight to jail (seriously)
Nah, ATO will accept $20 a fortnight payment plan.
See if you can pay with discounted gift cards purchased from Coles/Woollies when they're running the points promotions.
What are we, made of money?
you owe the bank $1 that's your problem
you owe the bank $1,00,00,000 that's their problem
Don’t normally complain about grammar, but the position of your commas has given me a headache
Don't worry, you're complaining about punctuation.
Isn't there supposed to be three numbers between each set of commas starting from the right?
Pretty sure they're called "thousands separators" and are classified as numerical punctuation.
Eg $10,000,000
Gotta say it made my eyes squint a bit when I saw it.
@Gdsamp: Dude, it's a mathematical rule, I didn't make this up! Mathematicians been doing this for hundreds of years!
https://extranet.education.unimelb.edu.au/SME/TNMY/Decimals/…
I never said it was a grammar issue, I specifically said it was a numerical punctuation issue.
Never said anything about a headache either.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16728306/redir
Clearly, there is a comprehension issue here, but I I'm not the one who has it.
LMAO - broaden my perspective? You're just making shit up! Nobody but you is familiar with this!
Regardless, in Australia, we use spaces anyway.
The format I used is perfectly valid and used by billions of people worldwide
Show me just one person apart from you who uses your system.
Just one.
Not gonna ask for evidence of billions
Calling something incorrect simply because you’re unfamiliar with it isn’t clever — it’s ignorant. And trying to pass that off as some mathematical authority? That’s laughable.
Dude, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself now.
but don’t mistake your lack of awareness for a flaw in someone else’s understanding.
Indeed!
Just because you haven’t seen it before doesn’t make it wrong — it just highlights how incredibly narrow your frame of reference is.
I am literally in my final year of a pure math degree. Reckon if it was "out there" being used by billions someone probably would have brought it to my attention by now, don't you think?
@Muppet Detector: Just popping my head in to say that I see that formatting on payslips for people who work for a couple of overseas companies eg Tata - and IIRC also Infosys uses that format? So while it's not what we're used to seeing, it's out there. There are also a couple that use commas where we'd use the full stop and vice versa. One of the big miners (Rio Tinto I think) has payslips with numbers formatted like that.
@miwahni: Cheers. Talks about that in one of those links up there somewhere.
But this dude cbf reading them or even showing one single example.
He's just going with "billions of people across multiple continents use it everyday" apparently in "banking, commerce, government forms".
@Muppet Detector: Dude also forgets that this is an Australian bargain forum. Most Australians either don't use the separators or use them for groups of three like you said.
Who gives a damn which way is "correct" - which way is relevant to the intended audience.
Show me just one person apart from you who uses your system
A quick google search seems to show that it's used in India.
Mathematicians been doing this for hundreds of years!
Not just mathematicians! Totally normal people when dealing with monetary amounts bigger than a thousand dollars- anyone using a banking app.
I wasn’t aware that using a numbering system recognised by billions outside your bubble was grounds for criticism. I'm not responsible for your ignorance
Ok, giving you the benefit of the doubt here, to which numbering system are you referring/using?
Whatever it is, it ain't recognised in Australia and there ain't billions of people recognising it, far less using it.
We, along with pretty much everybody else in the world use the Hindu - Arabic (or base 10) numerical system.
https://amsi.org.au/teacher_modules/Using_place_value4-7.htm…
Have a Captain Cook in that link for reference to the three digit "space separator".
I'm not responsible for your ignorance
No, you're not. But you're trying damn hard to make me responsible for yours.
@Gdsamp: Nah mate, read the link, or even google it. Clearly talks about it down the page a bit.
That’s the symbols and the place value system — not the grouping or formatting of digits.
Either refer to one of the links I provided or do some googling.
BTW, I never disputed the use of the comma, just that we use spaces in Australia, but yes, other countries do use commas,
Your issue is how many digits you're using between these commas that are literally called "thousands separators".
Even their name gives you a hint about how many numbers there are between the separators.
In everyday writing — banking, commerce, government forms — commas are still widely used in many regions, including Australia. So no, there isn’t one sacred, globally accepted way.
Not challenging the use of the commas, just the way you're using them and claiming billions of other people also use it.
Just show me one other example that's not you, where your number system is used, doesn't even have to be in a math/science context.
Not even going to limit it to the other areas you listed, just show me one example of anybody else using your system.
The digit grouping format I used — 1,00,00,000 — is used daily by billions of people across multiple continents. You don’t have to like it, but pretending it doesn’t exist is just historically and globally ignorant.
just show me one example of someone other than you who uses your "digit grouping format"
BTW, I never disputed the use of the comma, just that we use spaces in Australia,
We use commas, not spaces. Just have a look at an Australian real estate website if you want to see examples.
But I am also intrigued who else uses 2 digits between commas (let alone both 2 digit grouping AND 3 digit grouping in the one number).
@tenpercent: We did use commas until about 1970 (I actually still use them in non academic settings/ non assessment situations where I'm not going to lose marks for doing it the wrong way).
But we did officially change it. Aus school curriculum teaches it that way and everything.
Something to do with international standards and the need for consistency with computer systems.
Dunno, commas make sense to me. Makes it easier to read big numbers.
International Bureau of Weights and Measures weighed in in 2003.
https://www.smartick.com/blog/other-contents/curiosities/dec…
Talks about it a bit more here
http://wordpress.mrreid.org/2014/05/27/stop-putting-commas-i…
But I am also intrigued who else uses 2 digits between commas (let alone both 2 digit grouping AND 3 digit grouping in the one number).
Yeah, nobody does. He's just making stuff up and doubling down so hard he's prepared to die on that hill.
@Muppet Detector: That's weird. I can't even think of one example where I have seen spaces used instead of commas. Excel doesn't even have a (non-custom) number formatting option for it. Every school textbook and university textbook I've used also uses commas… or so I remember. I had a notion that Europeans used dots and commas back to front to how we use them. Spaces certainly hasn't caught on in general use. Even the ATO still uses commas (see for example https://www.ato.gov.au/single-page-applications/calculatorsa…).
@Muppet Detector: We buy stuff out of India from time to time and I have been following a few electric bike startups from India and they are the only place I have ever come across that uses this gawd awful 1,22,22,333 system.
I will often get a price of say ₹1.48Lakh, which is ₹148,000 rupees, but would be written out as ₹1,48,000
So, technically GDStamp is right when he says “billions of people use it every day”, it’s the “world wide” part they are woefully ignorant of. What they are omitting is that all of these “billions of people” are in India or dealing with Indian companies. It is NOT a world wide standard for the delineation of units in large numbers.
Most of the rest of the world uses ISO 31 (or ISO 80000-1:2022). This is the “space” method that was talked about above, and using either a “dot” or a “comma” to delineate decimals. (ie; 1 000.63 in UK, AU, NZ or 1 000,63 in most of EU)
If you want to know more about this (fropanity) up Indian numbering system, you can read about it here
@pegaxs: Excellent, good to know. You'd think if he knew that, he would have just provided an example of it on one of the occasions we asked him to though.
He even conceded he was using the Arabic numeric system and as you saw was quite insistent this alternative number format was part of that.
He wasn't discussing rupees and he knows that. He literally used a $ sign in the post that started all this. He really was just making stuff up on the fly. Look at the examples he gave of who did use that format, had SFA to do with Indian currency.
Besides, did you see what I actually wrote in my first post on that thread? And what the first poster who commented actually said? Both Caused him to go off like a frog in a sock, went from 0 to 100 in seconds and started in with his barrage of derogatory insults.
If he was talking about rupees, (because we only ever use math when working out currency stuff), why not just go "whoops! That shoulda been the Indian rupee sign, that's how they write their numbers".
If you want to know more about this (fropanity) up Indian numbering system, you can read about it here(en.m.wikipedia.org)
Thank you for doing the needful and giving context. Had I come across that somewhere serious rather than in a comical offshoot of an OzB thread, that dumbarse xx,yyy notation would have been enraging.
let alone both 2 digit grouping AND 3 digit grouping in the one number
India appears to do just that.
Show me just one person apart from you who uses your system.
Just one.
Not gonna ask for evidence of billions
just show me one example of someone other than you who uses your "digit grouping format"
I think gdsamp s referring to the Indian numbering system, so yeah technically it s billions of people lol.
@Ahoon: Nah he wasn't. He specifically cited his use of the Hindu - Arabic system.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16728416/redir
A few quotes just in that post which clearly illustrate he had NFI about the Indian numerical system either.
He just accidentally got lucky with that.
But let's just say he was referring to Indian numeracy system. Why not just say that in any one of the times I asked for an example? Why the need to be an insulting derogatory ass about it?
Yes, we all use the Hindu–Arabic base-10 numeral system. That’s the symbols and the place value system — not the grouping or formatting of digits. You’re conflating the numerical system with notation conventions, which vary widely around the world. Not the same thing.
Now dress me up and call me stupid, but there is no way he was referring to the Indian numeric system, and his use of the phrase "we all use Hindu - Arabic base 10 numeral system strongly suggests he had no idea the Indian system even existed, let alone that this is what he was referring to.
So no, there isnt one sacred, globally accepted way.
For other people's reference, here's where the "billions" of people figure is coming from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system. So on one hand, you are right. But since you or anyone else here isn't in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh, quit being a troll.
you owe the bank $1 that's your problem
you owe the bank $1,00,00,000 that's their problem
You owe the govt $11,000,000 you go to jail
💀