As you may be aware, the ABC recently revealed Treasury’s advice on how to make the federal budget more sustainable — the ultimate goal of the Treasurer. The recommendations included raising indirect taxes such as the fuel excise, cigarette tax, GST, and superannuation tax. ABC also reported that Labor’s housing target was described as delusional. On a more positive note, Treasury advised lowering personal income tax. While the exact approach to tax reform remains unclear, it appears that increasing the GST while reducing income tax could be one of the options under consideration.
Raise Taxes to Fix The Budget, ABC Revealed How Labor Could Make The Federal Budget Sustainable
nned2say on 15/07/2025 - 11:48
Comments
- 1
- 2
I doubt they will actually lower personal income tax.
I doubt the Labor Goverment will reduce thier out-of-control spending either which is definitely a better option than increasing taxes
Albo's selling our great country to China as we speak.
@BlahBlahBlaah: Liberals already did that with the free trade agreement with China
https://www.smh.com.au/national/liberal-andrew-robb-took-880…
The Americans tried that. So far they are shredding people's lives but not actually saving any money.
Plus labour turns out to be way better at spending sanely than the right on this country.
And its the Australian people's spending. Social programs, education, health… All things people famously want less of…
@canAdeladian: we can use less spending in NDIS. Stop it from growing uncontrollably. While it's commendable to want to help the disabled, taxpayers' money need to be prioritized for majority of australians, and only if there are leftover do you increase welfare.
- It’s Labor and
- They’re all shocking at spending tax payer dollars (however Labor is doing an exceptionally bad job at the moment)
Sure, Australia can be just like Monaco.
Now do Singapore? 15% tax rate - we arent 100% going to copy these nations but we certainly could learn from them
anyone who still supports income tax is living in the dark ages - it is anti productivity and anti worker - low or no income tax and high consuption tax is the future - you cant avoid it and you pay for what you can afford ie rich people pay WAY more tax then poor people but it is about choice and lifestyle
like it or not the shift to 'taxing wealth' is happening everywhere as the gap between the rich and the poor widens we need to rethink the tax system to make it more fair and sustainable
Also a Death Tax is a must to cover the reduce tax revenue from income tax - time to hit these rich people living in 20m dollar homes getting the aged pension!
Go For It Jim!
"Also a Death Tax is a must to cover the reduce tax revenue from income tax - time to hit these rich people living in 20m dollar homes getting the aged pension!"
Typical socialist garbage. If someone is living in a 20 million dollar home (that they probably paid $50 for back in the day) and getting the aged pension then they are hardly eligible for death tax now are they? Why not just call it the sour grapes tax because you have a chip on your shoulder about people who have more money than you and you don't want their struggling kids to be able to get ahead by having access to their inheritance. And you think giving more money to government on the unicorn that they will use it to 'make society betterer for all' instead of pissing it away on useless shit like they have been doing for decades now is a good idea?
gawd…….And you think giving more money to government on the unicorn that they will use it to 'make society betterer for all' instead of pissing it away on useless shit like they have been doing for decades now is a good idea?
im the 1st person to say government spending needs to be held to account but a death tax 'isnt socialist' USA probably the most capitalist country in the world has a harsh death tax as does the UK - the idea is that you cannot AVOID this tax too much tax revenue by the wealthiest is missed due to loopholes this needs to end
If anything the system i am proposing is a capitalist system aimmed at allowing the poorest to build wealth and stops the 'richest from hording it' - we are all going to die you either spend it and pay tax or die and pay tax regardless it is a more fair system
I all for a 'lower' taxed society but for that to happen those with the most need to be held accoutable as those are the people who usually pay the least as a % of their wealth
@Trying2SaveABuck: Yeah but that wont happen.
The richest have the means to escape tax traps so the burden will fall to the average Joe who might have a house or two and want to help their 2 or 3 kids out after they die.
And some people are above the law ahem King Chuck the Turd.
So what starts out with seemingly good intentions only end up hurting the middle and lower classes.
@EightImmortals: You 'cannot' escape consuption tax or death unless you leave the country
if you set up a business in a Australia we will have to be subject to pay on point consuption tax and death tax on the business even if you piss off to the caymen islands
Assests outside of Aus their isnt much you can 'do about it' but anything domestic will be subject to tax
As for multinational companies i would set a tax floor on REVENUE not profit to operated in Australia (once again UNAVOIDABLE) this can be claimed back when tax is paid on 'profits' over a threshold to ensure companies dont sifen $$$$ to the Caymen Islands
it really isnt a 'hard' system and it is WAY more fair
@Trying2SaveABuck: Or you are soo rich that you are above the law as I mentioned, though there aren't too many kings around to abuse the system, I just wanted to point out that it does happen. If I suddenly had enough wealth to become subject to special taxes I would absolutely be taking steps to minimise or avoid it at all costs, simply as a matter of principle.
Or you are soo rich that you are above the law as I mentioned, though there aren't too many kings around to abuse the system, I just wanted to point out that it does happen. If I suddenly had enough wealth to become subject to special taxes I would absolutely be taking steps to minimise or avoid it at all costs, simply as a matter of principle.
LMAO are you serious LOADs of ultra rich have oversea ank accounts to avoid tax
ill use my Favor Ex- PM Melcome Turnbull who has a 200m networth famously avoided tax with his Caymen Island bank account he also get 300k tax free pension from Australian tax payers
https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/malcolm-…
there is a long list of people with ultra high networths who do this but consider he was our PM and is tax payer funded it shows anyone with a lot of money can do it
There are a fair few retail business billionars who also are residence of have havens
@Trying2SaveABuck: Yes, I'm not disagreeing on that point. Still not sure that handing out money to poor people is going to fix their poverty. Tax breaks on the other hand will incentivise them to work harder/smarter and learn how to save and invest etc.
Yes, I'm not disagreeing on that point. Still not sure that handing out money to poor people is going to fix their poverty. Tax breaks on the other hand will incentivise them to work harder/smarter and learn how to save and invest etc.
no one is handing money to anyone im talking about getting rid of income tax - this incestivises you to work!
@EightImmortals: If anything im also of the Singapore view if you get govt money you have to do small odd jobs for the government ie if your able bodied you pick up rubbish, clean public property etc
@Trying2SaveABuck: "he also get 300k tax free pension from Australian tax payers"
Not correct. There are no special tax arrangements for the superannuation paid to him or any other former federal politician. This is true whether their super is paid from the old Parliamentary Contribution scheme which was shut to new members in 2004 or the new accumulation scheme that applied from 2004. Turnbull was elected in 2004 so he would have been in the new accumulation scheme.@Trying2SaveABuck: There are far more voting normies who can vote the small percentage of ultra wealthy into oblivion
Problem is everyone seems to think it'll impact them (just look at America all the normies vote against their own needs and wants every day to give musk and bezo a tax break)
If the threshold is sufficiently high enough it will only impact a tiny portion, the normies will never have to worry. But never under estimate the stupidity of people and how powerful propaganda is to smooth brains
@Trying2SaveABuck: "'cannot' escape consuption tax … unless you leave the country"
Not true.All retailers that sell gift cards that expire DON'T pay GST after they expire. Just company tax, overall less tax!
Anyone with "mates" living OS in a GST free country can pay them to send sub $1000 goods to AU GST free.
These are just the ones I know about.All retailers that sell gift cards that expire DON'T pay GST after they expire. Just company tax, overall less tax!
Anyone with "mates" living OS in a GST free country can pay them to send sub $1000 goods to AU GST free.
These are just the ones I know about.Sooner or later you 'spend' said gift card and incure GST
@Trying2SaveABuck: You do realize that adding additional taxes such as what you've proposed along with the 60+ taxes that Labor has introduced over their current and last term has permanently damaged Australia…
You've completely contradicted what you're saying and I ask that people like you to rethink how they approach the system. All these taxes/benefits that are being increased or added to the tax system are affecting you, your kids if you have any and the younger generation. I was able to work very hard at a young age to build wealth, to afford the things I wanted and to invest in things that allow me some freedom to live… there's absolutely no chance I would be able to replicate my success in this day and age without it taking 4x the amount of time - guess why, because of additional taxes that have been added in my state.
Here's how stupid our Labor premier at the time (Daniel Andrews) handled the expenditure of COVID, when people (the lower class) were struggling to find homes to rent or buy, he added a Covid Levy tax on all investment properties…. this effectively increased Land Tax for every holding in Victoria that wasn't a PPOR to 3/4x the amount it was, for example $5,000 has now $15,000 per annum. Now let me ask you, who's going to wear the costs of this? that's correct, the tenant - and this exacerbated the current rental shortage and housing crisis. So ultimately who lost? the tenants did (lower class).
These days, I feel sorry for the new generation because there's far too many regulations/taxes that stop people from wanting to venture down the path of working hard and becoming successful. Australia is being led by a government that has no real-world experience/understanding of how one thing can have a domino affect, their regulations being implemented IMO has only caused more damage:
- Higher fuel prices
- Higher house prices
- Higher rental prices
- Higher material prices
I can't think of a single thing that has dropped since this government has been in term. So I ask you once again - think about your comments because what you're suggesting simply kills off the Australian dream for yourself and every generation to come - there will always be the rich and then there will be the middle/lower class.
@0z8smakf: i dont support just 'adding new' taxes for the sake of it im saying get rid of income tax and fund government spending via consuption tax
what you are talking about is all the pointless taxes we have now due to the states mis-management of financial matters - they had essentially 'added new taxes' and not taken anything away just kept spending stupid
to fix this the simple solution would be 'get' rid' of state governments i for the life of me do not understand why we need state govts
This are actually excellent points. All the people negging clearly don’t have an open mind and fear anything that deviates from the status quo. Bunch of dinosaurs in here.
@Smol Cat: nah a couple of good points that unfortunately will never fly mixed with some terrible ideas that I hope also will never fly.
nah a couple of good points that unfortunately will never fly mixed with some terrible ideas that I hope also will never fly.
yes because 'you' are all that matters LMAO
this mentality is terrible - you are not the only person in this country
Death tax doesn't work, rich people setup there finances decades in advance to avoid it.
The UK is a prime example of a country with a death tax which doesn't really achieve much
I agree of higher consumption taxes but, overwhelmingly impacts rich people who spend like an 18yr old girl at the shops with her dads credit card
and a tax on loans for living/lifestyle, like what billionaires use when they take loans against their shares and never pay tax
More like Pearl Harbour mixed with a whiff of Chernobyl, with lots of someone else's military uniforms casting shadows on our daily lives.
And an bottomless debt to the Yanks & Israel, that stretches into infinity. Ppl here whinging about minor tax tweaks while AUKUS locks us into a 10 generational debt and a permanent front row seat to every conflict going. AUKUS is basically a whole economy tax increase, which we were forced to have by 2 gutless grovelling govts, that never got the mandate from the very people it hobbles.
UAE is oil-rich and the oil companies are state-owned.
Let's nationalise our own resources then.
UAE is oil-rich and the oil companies are state-owned.
we can do that - saudi aramco seem to do it well - surely we could do the same with Uraniam and Iron
What happened every other time Australia (Labor) tried that, mate?
rich people told stupid poor people that it would not work, so stupid poor people believed the rich people…. hmmmmmm
i would have picked norway and their natural ressources managment, if aus were to copy a country - uae arent well known for their human rights considerations, so norway might be more in line with aus ideal of well being
You should have posted each point separately. As a whole, I'm so glad you're not our treasurer.
Because you only care about self interest and not the overall economic health of the country
It is this very short term mentality as why Australia is going down the toilet
Nope, just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong.
Nope, just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong.
of course it doesnt, the in ability to come up with a counter arguement is why you are clueless
the current system isnt working just because it benefits 'you' isnt any arguement to keep it when the over all system is seeing greater and greater inequity
@Trying2SaveABuck: Mate you're the clueless one thinking you know better than everyone else and have all the answers.
Like I said, I agree with some of what you said (that's probably the area I'm clueless I suspect).Yes the current system could be improved. No, you are not the answer.
The current system does not benefit me, and I would support you in making improvements, but not in making things worse than they already are.
@SlickMick: Alright cooldown
No, you are not the answer.
I obviously dont have 'all' the answers i have an 'opinion' which i personally believe is educated and well informed however i am not an economist nor am i the treasurer - however the recommendations are made by experts and i support the movement to consuption tax
im just a voter who can see the current system isnt working
The current system does not benefit me, and I would support you in making improvements, but not in making things worse than they already are.
improving productivity by reducing income taxes and increasing consuption tax has proven to work as i have said in comments above we need to look at other nations and copy the better parts of their system
all im saying is the system needs to change - i never said i had all the answer but doing what we are doing not is only seeingmore debt, reduced services and a lower overall standard of living for Australians
it is the children of tomorrow who will have a 'worse' life then there predecessors
@zealmax: Tax on buying this or using services
GST is a consumption tax as you pay at point of sale
Fuel Excise is another consumption tax
We do not need income tax to punishing workers we need consumption tax to tax luxury and those who can afford it
@Trying2SaveABuck: I thought "consuption tax" was a new type of tax because you repeated it throughout your comments.
@zealmax: It is just a way of saying user pays oppossed to the current system in which earner/worker pays
Your viewpoint is a very common one that seems to dominate the minds of ppl who are 1st,2nd or 3rd generation migrants. It's pretty easy to grasp that the more and more an overpopulated planet falls apart, the more ppl move around expecting paradise. Meanwhile paradise has been cleared for the wall to wall housing estate.And is being run by the puppets of the global oligarchs with real control If you think things are going to suddenly turn a corner and we all live in Nirvana, I have bad news for you. Jobs,jobs.jobs means more of the same+ exponential impacts thereof.
No suprise your comment got down voted that hard. Facts hurt and reality isn't what people want to hear 😂😂. Typical ozbargainers lol
If people believe that an incoming brief from Treasury represents government policy, then they dont understand how government policy works or how incoming briefs work
that said, economists pretty universally consider income tax (including company tax), consumption tax, land tax and externality taxes as the most efficient, effective and equitable as well as relatively simple to levy. However Australia is a bit too heavily reliant on income tax, under reliant on consumption tax and no one wants to talk about land tax.
Australia is a bit too heavily reliant on income tax, under reliant on consumption tax and no one wants to talk about land tax.
Australia is a bit too heavily reliant (and increasingly reliant) on income tax on ordinary income and under reliant on corporate tax/levy.
I fixed that for you.
You didnt really fix it for me, because our corporate tax rate is essentially 0% due to franking credits. We would actually be much better off with a (say) 15% corporate rate and no franking credits. And when you tax a company you arent really taxing 'a company' as it isnt a person, you are taxing the shareholders. So it just comes down to income tax anyway; hence you havent fixed anything.
This point would make sense if all corporatations where listed on the ASX and clearly are not
It also is worth noting you cant use the franking credits on revenue eaned overseas the example you gave is effectively less then 1% of all business in Australia
In addition we should be encouraging companies to list on the local exchange opposed to punishing them - the ASX has lagged behind the US markets for almost 2 decades now also every Aussie worker is exposed to the ASX via superannuation we should want it to thrive to reduce the reliance on aged pension at retirement
every Aussie worker is exposed to the ASX via superannuation
you are free to diversify your super away from asx. In fact you should.
Norway famously does not invest in norway with their wealth fund. The same rationale can be applied to australian's superannuation funds.
you are free to diversify your super away from asx. In fact you should.
Norway famously does not invest in norway with their wealth fund. The same rationale can be applied to australian's superannuation funds.Your point isnt wrong but id say the 'vast' majority of Australians workers are set on their superfunds default setting or some sort of 'balaced' option
it would be less then 1% of superfunds that has 'Zero' Australian exposure
I reckon stamp duty should be paid by persons selling the house not by those who buy them
The people selling are making huge windfalls anyway let them pay it
We all know how all manner of things COULD be fixed almost overnight if as a nation we wanted to - but society simply doesn't WANT to and as our chosen politicial system is a big popularity competition so whats done is whats popular , NOT whats right.
We all know how all manner of things COULD be fixed almost overnight if as a nation we wanted to
who is "we" here? Surely that include the people that would have to pay or be sacrificed to "fix" an issues you referring to.
Yup, sometimes one has to take the medicine and it doesnt taste great.
Or, here is a better idea, stop letting people accumulate 30 "investment properties" and charging losses back to the government for the tax payers to foot the bill.
Massive tax win for the government AND fix the housing crisis on one go.
As someone who has 30 investment properties..
No no, not like that.
/s
aka Mum & Dad battlers (lol)
I have lost circulation in my fingers from clasping my pearls so tight…
One way I've heard them try to justify it, is that they are "actually helping the housing crisis by providing places to rent"..
That would only be a smidgen true if, on average, they were listed for below the average asking price for that size/quality of property - which no-one is going to do unless it's for family…
..and even then, they're still making it harder for people who want to buy their own homes by hoarding properties i.e. snapping up supply.
Again trying to steel-man them - they could possibly claim to be helping by building/developing more properties and selling them below market value for given size/quality.. which again, why would any sane person do this unless there's something in it for them?lol you landlord haters. No one here is arguing with you, so you make up what a property investor may say in such a scenario so you can continue rant in your own hypothetical discussion.
@SlickMick: no one here maybe.. but it's due to the forum - bargain hunters are hardly going to be in favor of landlords.
I myself am a landlord btw
Many MPs have multiple investment properties. How can you expect them to make a change instead of feathering their own nest?
OK, as long as they stop taxing income from those properties you have a deal. Or do you want housing to be the only asset class where you can't claim operating expenses against your income? (Though in principle I agree with your that housing shouldn't be an investment vehicle in the first place but that cat is well and truly out of the bag now).
Im not fussed on negative gearing and I personally benefit from it. I think capital gains discount has had a perverse incentive in wanting to perpetually increase the price of properties.
I wish I could get into your mindset. I loathe all CGT - it's like a death tax. You pay tax on income all your life (or that of investment), then the gov wants a cut on anything you've accumulated. I wish I could see "ohh only half, that's generous".
@SlickMick: Capital Gains is just wealth generated in another way. Imagine someone working on an asset but not paying themselves anything while working on it. Then if there was no CGT, then that person makes money tax free. Now how is that fair to people that work and get taxed on their income.
@SlickMick: In addition to paying tax all your life, its not like you dont get something back from that. You get a civilised society, the ability to walk without fear when out on the street, eating food that wont kill you, medical help when you need it and kids being educated so we dont produce a society of idiots.
do you want housing to be the only asset class where you can't claim operating expenses against your income?
If you think it would lower home prices, sure! It sounds like you think it would lower home prices.
I'm sure someone will say "it will decimate the rental market". Ok, let's seeI have no idea what would happen, though I'm not convinced that negative gearing is the only or the main reason for the insane prices of houses currently, It's probably a combination of numerous government polices that screw it up for everyone.
@EightImmortals: negative gearing is not even close to the top reason (and no I don't currently benefit from negative gearing), though it is an easy target for those that don't understand how bad the supply problem is in Australia, the countries growth through immigration has massively outstripped our capacity to build which in turn is due to horrible red tape, cost of building and local government piss poor efforts of land release.
@gromit: So in other words, as usual the government has screwed everything up for us and continues to double-down on their malfeasance. And yet why is it that most people can't seem to connect the things you mentioned to their actual cause?
@gromit: Yes but it doesn't make sense. People are poor because others have more money than them. There is no shortage of money in the world, that's just another one of society's urban myths IMO.
@gromit: Correct the government loves the classes fighting it takes the pressure of them. !00% the price of property is influenced by supply/demand. If you could magic up 200K empty houses across the capital cities tomorrow the rental market would drop and house prices would drop. We need 240k homes built per year now to meet demand and we are only doing 170k that's a massive shortfall at the same time as the floodgates have been open for the pretend skills shortage. Oddly with all the skills we have imported we are still below pre covid housing completions.
What percentage of the population own 30 investment properties?
Here we go again. Why the hell should the bottom rung be punished for the top rung dwellers dodging tax. There is no excuse any longer to protect RE investors after they have 2 or 3 properties. Get rid of CGT bounuses and NG tax payer gifts.It should be phased out entirely over 5 or ten years.
Corporations and foreign parasites and tax dodging billionaires should be number one target. Then we start charging rent for the US military, for every sq inch of land they use,for any activity, and for the data Pine Gap etc provide. 25% of all gas should be given to us to use,reserve of flog as needed.That should be the 'tariff' you pay for taking our finite resources. What we need is a govt with balls, to take on the mega leaners, not with a big stick for the little man.If the treasury advice did not have taxing the top end of the matrix, as their first and priority advice, then (profanity) that advice.It's compromised and corrupt.
No, it's the bureaucrats who steal other peoples money and put it to no productive purposes.
The Corporations and foreign parasites and tax dodging billionaires you are so afraid or, are all producing, creating and sustaining jobs, income and prosperity.
When has the government done that except to steal the workforce and inflate wages to pretend they are "creating" something while ruining the broader economyYeah. It is those fatcat nurses and aged care workers getting all the money.
What a pity the entitled attitudes you rightly identify here, aren't stamped on the owners foreheads, when they head to hospital for the schlong enlargement etc.
@alexdagr8: Do you think Deloitte consultants rates are the rates nurses and aged care workers get paid?
@mskeggs: Dont work there and definitely not a consultant (it would be an insult to say I earn what a consultant does).
some examples of costs. Psychiatrists or magistrates earning $400K-500K in the public sector - How about the director for a government department - many earn in excess of 1.2 million (there are alot of government departments in each state and federally).
I dont think nurses or aged care workers are getting more apart from what's in their EBA which has risen exponentially - but when you times that by the numbers in a particular state… the costs add up.
$110K a year as an RN is nothing to sneeze at. Throw in overtime and its more than survivable - some might even prosper.From an NDIS perspective - the NDIS providers have been cashing in - workers likely shafted.
But throwing money at the situation hasnt helped - historically hasnt as well (NBN Fibre, Home insulation schemes, NDIS - new businesses popping up, take advantage and disappear overnight)
Yeah nah.
https://www.qut.edu.au/news/realfocus/31-of-companies-are-no…https://michaelwest.com.au/top-40-tax-dodgers-of-2023/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-09/831-large-companies-p…
https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/the-tech-companies-avoidi…
You may want to use a better AI to clean this gobbledegook mess up>
When has the government done that except to steal the workforce and inflate wages to pretend they are "creating" something while ruining the broader economy
Try Victoria NOW
@Clickbait: I'm sure Victoria has plenty of billionaires, corporate tax sponges and industrial tax dodgers.
I always love the "don't tax the companies and billionaires a fair rate, they might not employ as many people" arguments.
After all, we know how they employ so many more people than the absolute minimum they can possibly get away with. They are so focussed on improving society and helping out the needy with their huge profits. /s
The cheer squad will have a lot more time to barrack for the corporate tax dodgers when AI kicks in
Keep licking those boots, I'm sure something will trickle down eventually.
Those same companied rely heavily on infrastructure built by public tax dollars to create their profit yet do not want to contribute to it.
Tell me you don’t own a place without telling me you don’t own a place
There is sooo much bitterness here on this topic.
Tell me you know nothing, while proving you know less.
Your tax dollars are paying my wage right now - all I can do is smile.
@alexdagr8: They'll probably also sponsor your redundancy when AI does the govt jettisons the loabilities
Trying2SaveABuck on 15/07/2025 - 11:50 Comment score below threshold.
- 1
- 2