Please help me challenge this unjustified charge from VicRoads.
If you don't want to sign, it's ok but don't put your unwanted comments. I think the VICRoads charges are not right, if you don't that doesn't mean you get right to comment on me.
Be nice to other is one thing missing here.
Also, most people saying don't use it if you can't afford. What about when someone has gifted you. And I am not comparing with other states, so stop those comments
I can afford my rates and land tax, does that Justify them?
Can you afford to put in your own infrastructure like roads, hospitals, public transport, schools, etc? Go live in a tent in the middle of nowhere and don’t use any services and the Government will probably just ignore you. However, I suspect you won’t last long on your own. Yes, taxes and fees are justified because Government uses them to provide services.
@try2bhelpful: What if those roads, hospitals, schools, etc already exist and have already been paid for?
What if you also pay income tax which is meant to pay for roads, hospitals, schools, etc?
And let's not forget fuel excise, GST, etc?
Governments also use taxes to waste money on over-priced consultants, surplus to requirement public servants and staffers, overpaying for services and things, paying for politicians' lavish lifestyles, etc.
@tenpercent: New infeastructure is built all the time and existing stuff needs to be maintained and modernised. There are also staff bills for things like hospitals. We have a broad spectrum tax base across various levels of government to cover various functions.
You keep telling yourself that politicians and public servants are lavishly paid. Management in private companies are paid much more than politicians and public servants. There was an article in the paper today talking about public servants moving to private industry for shorter hours and better pay. I’ve worked for both Government and private industry and can concur. The wastage in large companies is pretty high as well, especially on consultants and poorly written contracts.
The problem is there are too many people who want the benefits in society without being willing to pay for them. Then they listen to the rightwing media and websites.
username probs matches personal plates
Way to go off topic.
Edit: missus reckons it should be $500 to transfer a custom plate. As usual, she's right!
Sooo, today we're taxing vanity plates. When do tattoos and piercings go up for grabs?
You already pay GST on these so the answer is now.
@Muppet Detector: Way TMI. I suspect they were done illegally otherwise the “tattooist” would’ve been liable for GST.
However, you will be pleased to know that sex workers only need to pay GST if they earn over $75,000 per year. No awkward declarations there from your, appropriately named, time inside.
@try2bhelpful: Why would I care if you can avoid your GST obligations by keeping your declared income below $75,000?
Ok, maybe I should care, but I'll leave that for someone else to worry about for now. It's time for me to check if my dog has any fluff in his belly button.
The whole "we're all in this together" schtick didn't go over during Covid, not sure why anybody expects things to be any different now.
@Muppet Detector: Damn it. Now I want to know why dogs and cats don’t seem to have belly buttons as pronounced as ours are.
Actually most people were fine with we are all in this together with Covid, it was only the noisy minority making a fuss. It is like a class room where most kids just want to learn but there is always some moron causing disruptions. If America gets hit with another Covid then they will die in their tens of millions rather than just millions. It will be hilarious if they have to beg for migrants to replace their lost population.
@try2bhelpful: Well said.Especially the last 2 sentences.That scenario would also test their undying faith in their customised god, and 'the ways of the lord' thereof.I sense the fwits in charge will use whatever conventional medicine required to hold onto power, while Kennedy injects the masses with patchouli water.
we are all in this together
Orwellian nonsense that would make Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl gush.
@tenpercent: Talk about a complete over reaction comment. So we have reached the point where the first person who invokes the Nazis has lost the argument. Congratulations. Wave bye bye to your credibility going out the window.
@try2bhelpful: Only on OzB could someone invoke Godwin's Law during a discussion about belly button fluff and prostitutes dodging GST.
I'm not entirely convinced that credibility ever factored into it.
I mean, my dog can lick his own butt but he can't keep his belly button fluff under control?
You really need to stick to the point and remember what's really important in the grand scheme of things.
@try2bhelpful: Explain how invoking Nazis loses an argument?
The discussion shifted to blatant propaganda tag lines, i.e. "we're all in this together" and the greatest political theatre in probably all of history, covid. So of course two expert propagandists should be mentioned.
Explain how invoking Nazis loses an argument?
I'm thinking Godwin's Law may be somewhat influential in that regard.
FFS
This went from not caring about prostitutes meeting their GST obligations and belly button fluff in cats and dogs only for you to use the Holocaust as a punch line to a bad joke.
That was really the only material you could think of to refer to?
Even the most severely impaired know that sort of talk is in the "no, no touch zone" these days.
@Muppet Detector: Actually it went from try2behelpful's comment:
To Muppet Detector:
To:
Actually most people were fine with we are all in this together
And then I:
Not once did I mention the Holocaust. You did. Nazi propaganda was about far more than the Holocaust. Covid propaganda was about far more than the sniffles.
Godwin's law is itself irrational.
@tenpercent: The comment I was making was more in line with UK propaganda in the wars than the Nazi propoganda. To try to say that we should all be considerate of each other because of a deadly disease is roughly the same as accepting rationing and blackout curtains.
You are certainly in the Godwin category with trying to conflate what I said with Nazi propaganda. It was a totally ludicrous comment.
@try2bhelpful: Nah, I think you've overestimated my commitment to this discussion. Either that or I completely underestimated yours?
I was just trying to make a half hearted (tongue in cheek) excuse for why I didn't care about the GST obligations of a prostitute (whereas, a morally invested citizen would care that everyone was doing the right thing with the overarching best interests of society in mind rather than only being interested in themselves).
We are in a thread invoking the financial crisis as a reason for why the OP faces impending doom because they don't want to pay an occasional nominal fee associated with owning a set of vanity plates.
Things get serious in the most unusual places these days.
@tenpercent: I don't think that even neuroplasticity could fix your level of delusion.
I do have to admit that you're actually quite brilliant though,
I can never work out if you're trying to take the piss out of people or you really are not quite right.
Why are you playing for sheep stations when everybody else is contemplating the complexity of belly button fluff in animals?
@Muppet Detector: If you want to casually mention how wonderful a specific example of political propaganda was and invoke the political event named 'covid-19', amidst a discussion about Ozbargain worthy ladies (or gents? no judgement!) of the night and animal belly button fluff which in turn somehow (?) developed from the OP having a conniption about paying extra for their gawdy number plates, then of couse I or someone else will chime in to point out that it was indeed bald-faced propaganda the likes of which will stand alongside other examples of outrageous propaganda in modern history.
@tenpercent: Dude, what crayon are you using to join those dots? Walt Disney couldn't make that up and Freud wouldn't have been able to explain how you did. Not even Christopher Columbus could navigate whatever journey you took, even if he used a GPS.
You've managed to insert yourself into some light hearted banter and turn it into some perverted universal trade agreement between The Garden of Eden, Armageddon and all nine circles of Hell.
I guess that explains why the serpent never made Adam and Eve read the terms & conditions about eating that apple, eh?
@tenpercent: Look up Godwin’s law. The overreaction to a situation minimises the true horror of the original.
That “tag line” was innocuous and an indicator we were trying to be considerate are of each other with a deadly disease.
You think Covid was the greatest political theatre in history? Honestly? Just repeating your total over reaction. Some people seem to have no resilience.
My suggestion is go back and look at the reactions to the Plague and Spanish Influenza. Covid reactions were actually pretty mild.
That “tag line” was innocuous and an indicator we were trying to be considerate are of each other with a deadly disease.
You got all that out of a prostitute's GST obligations?
You sidetracked my attention with this little gem;
Now I want to know why dogs and cats don’t seem to have belly buttons as pronounced as ours are.
So now I'm trying to see if my dog has an innie or an outie and you're trying to bring about world peace by eradicating the global population.
@Muppet Detector: I was conflating prison tattoos and other prison activities but it appears my throw away line has been overly emphasised. Frankly my comment had nothing to do with Covid and more to do with GST on tattoos.
I can’t find my cat’s belly button at all, but she is very furry. She is lying down getting a tummy rub and purring at the moment. I think cat’s have their priorities right.
Given we have no Planet B, despite Musk, human’s are very careless about their own survival. When we do eventually wipe ourselves off the planet it will shrug and start again. However nature isn’t peaceful anyway. Almost everything is just a part of the food chain for something else.
You used Chat GPT to write your petition. If you want us to take you seriously, put the effort in and leave the AI slop out.
Also, don't waste your time with this. Write to the Victorian Ombudsman, and then be prepared to challenge in court if that fails.
By having a custom one for a private vehicle (unless for fleet to help in management) you have already shown your inclination to support public exchequer. Good on ya! If your $147 fixes just one pothole be proud to serve the community indirectly.
"$145.70 fee charged by VicRoads"…. "This fee appears disproportionate"
Seriously, I couldn't, with clear conscience, sign such a statement.
what a stupid petition im going to start one that supports the increase
if your stupid enough to boast around with custom plates and complain about the cost of living then you are stupid enough to shell out extra money for custom plates
take the standard plates and move on
yes please do, I'd definitely sign that one lol
if your stupid enough
I do love a good bit of irony.
100% agree - as someone who has a bunch of custom plates, if I was hard up financially, I would certainly be focusing on more IMPORTANT things than vanity nobody gives a shit about but me lol
Custom plates are for serving selected slices of mushroom beef pie to the correct drivers.
Op's username doesn't check out
how do I petition them to charge you double?
Hmm there is no charge if you change the plates on the day of transfer, just bought a car a few months ago and dealer who had vicroad access changed plates over on day of pickup and transferred car at the same time..
All the times i have paid for this by getting new plates before on trade in and then holding plates paying vicroads $$$ and then paying $$$$ to put back on new car, buggers they dont tell you this…….
Hahahahahaha. No
Sooo, telling the world what a big man he is by using vulgar innuendos to fight for democratic dignity and Human Rights one LEGO brick at a time…
Would be sort of funny if LEGO pursued him for Intellectual Property theft…
He should’ve got “IMAFNTOOL”.
Yeah, he lost and had to change the plates.
This has to be a troll post. Nobody is this clueless are they?
I'm starting to understand what your username is actually alluding to…
You really don’t understand preferential voting do you?
I do.
Do you understand that the Senate is more representative of what voters want than is the House of Representatives, ironically? Both use preferential voting. One has multi-member electorates, the other does not. Therein lies the problem.
@tenpercent: Actually the preferential system indicates what people prefer. If you keep quoting first votes then you really don’t understand how it works. You also don’t understand how the concept of an electorate representative for a seat works. People vote in the person not the party and then there is an agreement on how Government is formed. It is how people are able to jump ship.
@try2bhelpful: I do understand how the concept of an electorate representative for an electoral division works. I also know it would work much better if there were multiple members per electorate. You seem to fail to grasp that or just want to ignore it as much as possible because you know both ALP and LNP representation in parliament would more closely reflect how voters actually vote.
@tenpercent: Probably would result in the major parties running multiple people in an electorate to soak up more of the vote. Frankly I think it would get unwieldy. However, as the Teals are showing you don’t need to belong to the big two to represent your electorate.
Looking at the primary vote is a furphy when it comes to preferential voting because we don’t know what the numbers would be if it wasn’t in place. The current system allows a protest then a “this is who I settle for”. It reduces the risk of extremists either way.
because we don’t know what the numbers would be if it wasn’t in place
We have two good ideas to estimate the numbers though:
@tenpercent: Nope. They aren’t the same thing. The lower house is the individual representative of that electorate. They are the port of call to resolving government type issues. The upper house is the check on the lower house, it generally isn’t where laws are developed and proposed.
The first preferences is a furphy as well. If we didn’t have preference voting then the landscape could be a lot difference. There would be a lot less protest votes because there is a risk of splitting the vote so the person most people don’t want to get in does.
Nope. They aren’t the same thing.
I didn't say they were. I said they were the best available data in absence of changing the system and running a new election to help estimate what the outcome would be if we had multi-member electorates.
If we didn’t have preference voting then the landscape could be a lot difference.
Thanks. Seems like you're all up to date (if the date was 1918).
Yes, preferential voting is better (yields more representative outcomes) than first-past-the-post. But that's not what I'm discussing. I'm discussing multi-member electorates, which is better (yields more representative outcomes) than single member electorates. And the two things are not mutually exclusive concepts.
@tenpercent: As I said if you run multi member electorates then the major parties are likely to run multiple candidates and you will probably end up with something similar to what you have now. You would have to determine bigger boundaries or double the number of government representatives. The local representative is primarily about the issues in the local area. The senate is across a bigger area because it is checks and balances rather than specific issues. You really can’t extrapolate from what we have now.
The trouble with any sort of minority government is it tends to be unstable. It also means you can get someone with a small voting base that has outsized influence as Governments do deals with them. It has the opposite effect of being able to make significant change.
This system isn’t perfect but it is better than the alternatives that will just get messy and move away from the local representative being closely aligned with the will of the electorate.
the major parties are likely to run multiple candidates
Yes they probably would run multiple candidates, but in many electorates you're likely to end up with for example 2 ALP, 1 LNP, 1 Other, or maybe 1 ALP, 1 LNP, 2 Other, etc.
It will help avoid situations like we have for the last decade where barely a third of people have first preferenced candidates from the Party that forms government.
No one can reasonably suggest that 34% of the first preferences translating to 70% of the seats makes it a house of representatives. Nor if you want to be more lenient suggest that 54% of 2PP translating to 70% of the seats is representative. It simply isn't. People who do not want the uniparty and who put both of them last/second last are severely under-represented in the House of Representatives. There would be a far higher proportion of independents and smaller parties to more properly represent the diverse voices of their electorates.
The local representative is primarily about the issues in the local area….the local representative being closely aligned with the will of the electorate
That theory hasn't been in practice for many decades, if it ever was. Party members vote with their parties almost exclusively 99.99% of the time. If they deviate without permission they get ejected or lose pre-selection at the next election.
But moving from the less representative single member system to multiple members won't hinder local representation, if anything it will improve as MPs from the uniparty will have to actually consider local issues brought to them more than they have in the past, lest they lose more seats to local independents. Not getting any traction with the local LNP/ALP member whom the majority of your electorate ranked higher? Ask the local independent member whom you first preferenced anyway who was ranked highest by 25% of your electorate instead. Guess which member will be more popular at the next election?
@tenpercent: How big do you intend to make these electorates if you are running that many candidates? You are getting totally away from an electorate representing local issues.
However, this discussion is totally theoretical because there is enough fuss when the boundaries are changed let alone multiple representatives. Given the mess Tasmania has become I don’t see anyone else looking at something similar.
How big do you intend to make these electorates if you are running that many candidates?
I would expect there would need to be a balance of electorate size and number of members in parliament. Some neighbouring electorates would merge and adjust boundaries.
You are getting totally away from an electorate representing local issues
On the contrary, I already explained how multi-member electorates would help restore some accountability to the local electorates.
Given the mess Tasmania has become…
What mess? Just because they have a minority government and stuff has to get negotiated and debated and discussed instead of the parliament just being used as a rubber stamp and pulpit for nightly news sound grabs?
I don’t see anyone else looking at something similar.
ACT already does it.
All other upper houses in the country do it.
@tenpercent: I think we have both made our points and the situation isn’t going to change anytime soon so this discussion is just going around in circles now. I will leave you to your theoretical thoughts and most of Australia will continue with the current reality.
with the current reality
For the avoidance of doubt for others reading these comments now or in the future:
"The current reality" = 34% of first preference votes (54% of two-party preferred) translating to 70% of representatives in parliament. You are (probably) not being represented in parliament by someone who has your best interests or whose values even vaguely align with yours.
OP, the numberplate "1STWLD" is available for $620. Pretty sure there are no charges of the plate hasn't been assigned before so you save the $145.70.
I am wondering if this charge is a new thing.
If the OP bought their plates before this charge was introduced, then they were not in a position to evaluate or consider what the true costs of purchasing the plates actually was.
Let's say I was interested in buying a squidget. Before purchasing, I'm likely to research all of the potential costs I may need to pay for when deciding if I can actually afford the thing.
Thus, if the squidget was offered for sale at a cost of $50, I might decide that I can afford that.
However, if my research revealed that the squidget cost $50 + an additional $150 sometime in the future, I now know that my squidget may actually cost me $200. With this knowledge, I may decide that I really can't afford the squidget, so don't proceed with the purchase.
So, my opinion about the OP's situation may vary depending on the following:
1, When OP purchased the plates, was there any reason for them to expect that there may be additional or ongoing costs moving forward?
=> if OP believed the purchase price was the only forseable cost, then I do get how they would be salty, if at a later date, ownership attracted unexpected additional costs.
Even though the item in question are vanity plates, they could have been purchased at a time when finances were favourable, but for whatever reason, circumstances changed or bad stuff happened and the OP no longer has such a well funded disposable income making this unexpected $150 cost, tricky to budget for.
I could get on board with that scenario being frustrating and inconvenient with a healthy dose of "it just ain't fair".
(From my perspective, I went down the whole kid path expecting them to cost $xx. Damned if I wasn't looking for the refund policy when I learned they actually cost $XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!
However:
Surely a troll post, no?
If it turns out that situation one is a true reflection of this scenario, then I reckon, the fair way to go would be to exempt existing plate owners from additional fees (ergo not apply retrospectively), and only apply the new charges/fees to newly purchased plates (after these additional costs are clearly communicated to the buyer before purchase).
It's a ruse to say the squidget costs $50, but then come back at a later date and say "haha, we changed our minds, now we want an extra $50 and that will be the final price…maybe".
The trouble with Grandfathering these sort of things is it creates an unholy mess of confusing rules. Fees from both the Government and the private sector change all the time. Vanity plates aren’t within cooee of the essentials in life. If the current “renter” of the plates can’t afford the fee then they surrender them. This just looks petty.
The Vic Gov is broke and desperate for money. Many taxes are going up. This one is for something that is a luxury vanity item so I think it's fair enough. If you can't afford them then don't get them.
OP didn't expect this amount of backlash, oops.
australia is become a massive dookiehole. Were hit with this fee that fee each year our money and freedom erodes. australia sucks now and is only going to get a lot worse..
I assume you have applied to emigrate then? Get off the rightwing websites.
it's all "right wing" until it's too late. lmao
Freedom in Australia has only ever been an illusion.
What on earth does that statement even mean?
What makes you believe that freedom exists in Australia?
Can you point to any legislative instrument that guarantees or protects the freedom of Australian's?
@Muppet Detector: Never heard of anyone bang arrested for saying our prime minister looks like a Disney character, making a big deal of if it.
@Ughhh: Hey?
I'm going to need a few more words and a bit of perspective if you want me to join those dots.
@Muppet Detector: I think he is referring to Winnie the Pooh aka Xi Jing Ping.
I suspect the comment translates roughly to:
We're not as bad as authoritarian one party state mainland China, so stop complaining huh. It could be worse.
@Ughhh: Insulting Trump on social media can get you excluded from visiting the US. Although that could be a bonus.
@Muppet Detector: Why is that important. America has all sorts of comments about Freedom in their legislation but doesn’t deliver on it. They have some of the highest incarceration rates in the world. There judicial system is an absolute joke on many levels. Certainly civil rights is an illusion over there.
Give me your definition of freedom and we can debate it. As a society with have to have rules so we can all rub along but that doesn’t mean we don’t have freedom to live our lives largely as we want.
What is illusion is that we are all straining under the yoke of some onerous government state. The rightwingers are causing a lot of unnecessary disruption and angst.
@try2bhelpful: I agree (again) with an additional comment that we have capitulated to America and Israel so much so recently, that we are actually losing freedoms by those capitulations. On Israel we can't have our cake and eat it too. We were basically told to STFU throughout the most active parts of a genocide lest we be labelled anti Semitic. Now the PM confirms what we all knew all along. But only after Israel has locked in a full suite of control and propaganda over every corner of our lives. More voice and rights than even first Australians have ever dreamed of, in the stroke of a pen.Hypocrisy.
Then we have been politically fellating a lunatic in the US over AUKUS while we caved in over beef, and claim the import rules were based on science.BS. How the ALP got sucked into the whole weapons and defence and all things bad = China BS, is an eternal anomaly. At the same time we sing the praises of China out of one side of our mouths,knowing without them we are a rubbish tip economically, but also (according to our own USA scripted spin) they are the worst thing on earth, in every other way.And we (the gov) says it all out loud.None of this is diplomacy, or politics. It's not leadership either. Some of these positions aren't even sustainable. On one hand it's gifting our sovereignty willingly, and on the other it's even being delusional enough to think it's still ours to own.
How does a govt who called out Howard over Aghanistan' illegal war, sleep knowing they never asked for or got the peoples endorsement to sell out emphatically to someone who has turned their back on us, in every way but taking our money and demanding we join the war machine in perpetuity.
It's like the ALP has lost it's sense of smell and it's mind, in one fell swoop.
@Protractor: You make a lot of valid points here. It is driving me a tad nuts as well. What is the Government up to.
we have capitulated to America and Israel so much so recently… We were basically told to STFU throughout the most active parts of a genocide lest we be labelled anti Semitic… sell out emphatically to someone who has turned their back on us, in every way but taking our money and demanding we join the war machine in perpetuity.
We definitely tune into the same conspiracy podcasts.
@tenpercent: The thing is that, not believing or denying this stuff, is the real conspiracy.
I do love that someone put a brown nose art installation outside Marles office. He would have to be the most shallow person the cosmos has ever regurgitated.
But, even when somehow , you & I align on a point, I think your delusional belief around covid conspiracies, and more humans is never enough, and climate change denial, precludes me from sharing any of your 'airwaves'.
@tenpercent: LOL. You don't get it all. You never will.The chat room echoes are your friends and your koolaid Gospel. That's the problem.You're at the opposite end of the 'get it' spectrum. Your perverse comic strip theory, is that humans can and should breed themselves into Nirvana.That they should ignore and deny all existential problems & call them 'chicken little conspiracies.
@Protractor: well spoken. in layman's terms, our government pretend to know what they're doing, but we're really just a $15 cheap (garden tool) that takes it from both sides, and sometimes 3 sides, we have zero backbone and we're on the path on self destruction. This country used to be a nice place to retire. sigh.
complaining about rising cost of living and the issue is vanity plates on a new car FO.
This is OzBargain. You've come to the wrong place for support for what the majority of us would consider an an avoidable and unnecessary expense, particularly when you are saying you are "struggling with cost of living".
Wow so much hate, everything Vicroads does is a rort, you are all sheep, just sign the petition and move on with your lives, some of us actually treat our car more then just an appliance such as your fridge, if we choose to pay extremely high fees to have a number plate that doesn't read 1XT-328 the education state or some other BS, we also shouldn't have to bend over when purchasing a new car and transferring our plates to it. You should all be happy some of us pay stupid prices for custom plates, imagine the cost of registration if Vicroads weren't making millions of the number plate game!
We ARE all happy people pay stupid prices for custom plates, nothing wrong with you choosing to spend your money that way. Just don't whine about the cost of living while choosing to do it.
So I did a cost analysis when I got my last car registered as I hate the look of the full size standard plates ($43) and to tight to purchase custom plates, slims are $210 but still blue and still have a number at the start, I found the re issued Black and white slim plates in Victoria are actually quite cost effective at $240 basically you get what ever they have in stock and i was fortunate to get B**-555 after looking through a couple, now I am not 100% but believe I can move them to my next car in the future and if that's the case I am going to be pissed off if I need to pay $150 for some one to punch a couple of buttons on a keyboard, if anything they should be paying me to reuse my old plates!
Having a vanity plate is an option.
If you choose to have one, you are choosing to pay for the expense of one.
This is what happens in every state with vanity plates…. you pay to make them, you pay to move them.
Here is something u might not realise, if you for some reason wanted to transfer your STANDARD plates from one car to the next (which most never do) the SAME fee is payable. Its not just for vanity plates
but if you can afford to pay 400+ for vainity plates you can pay a fee when you change cars.
A vanity tax is hardly "divide and conquer". The choice to stand out from the crowd is theirs — they can wear it.
Govt logic goes something like this.
Custom plates are a self-imposed, 100% discretionary expense. If they can justify that spend, and they have no problem updating vehicles so regularly, they can pay for the privilege of transferring their vanity to their new acquisition.
$150? A mere trifle for these berks.