18c off fuel deal - Was it really a bargain? Should we as a OZB community use bargain which may cost someone their job..

pyramid on 11/04/2013 - 09:25
Last edited 18/04/2013 - 13:15

Guys/Gals,

There was deal posted yesterday (http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/99454?page=5#comment-133192…) and it had got massive response. Hunderds of people has used coupon posted in deal and filled their tank including myself.

I was thinking it was really a deal or bargain? Consider following before jumping your guns

1) Coupon was suppose to be used by person or two.
2) It was specific to person it was issued.
3) It was not supposed to be copied and used.
4) Coupon was not published by coles/shell to public.
4) Coupon might be dodgy as someone pointed in deal thread that coupon pdf was created on 3/4th April.

Did we do right things by using this coupon which might cost some business thousands of dollars and probably cost someone their job.

We as a OZB community, should we stop using such coupons which can cost someone money/job? Is this still ethical to use coupon/voucher which should be ideally used by one person.

I m posting this to get honest opinion from everyone.

Site Discussion

Comments

  • retiredfeline on 11/04/2013 - 09:40
    +10

    Well first of all I'd like to question your assumption that it will cost somebody their job. Was it the mistake of one identifiable person? Or a system error? If the latter, then the question should be changed to may cost Coles money. It's a tenuous linkage to assume that if a merchant fails to profit in one instance, that leads to someone losing their job. It's part of commercial risk. Should we buy Pepsi Next to "keep some factory hand in work"?

    I didn't use the voucher BTW.

    • pyramid on 11/04/2013 - 09:45
      -2

      I have no answer to your question of questioning my assumption. Secondly, i have started this topic to get opinion from the community. Since this coupon was NOT supposed to be copied, this may cost someone their job, you can check original thread where people have same assumption.

      • retiredfeline on 11/04/2013 - 09:49
        +7

        But that still doesn't settle the question of whether somebody will really lose their job. Simply stating doesn't make it so. Even less restating it.

        • pyramid on 11/04/2013 - 09:56

          I agree. We do not know if someone will lose their job. It may be possible that none will lose or someone will lose but won't be reported anywhere. Lets wait and watch.

  • snappy1234 on 11/04/2013 - 09:46
    +2

    The way i look at it personally, the Majors started the coupons for a reason
    i think they have done massively well.

    This one bit them on the bum.

    Ethics umm where do we start ! (Business and Consumers)

    And i didn't use this deal (no real need)

  • mskeggs on 11/04/2013 - 10:11
    +5

    Why is this deal causing angst?
    If the system allowed repeated use of the same barcode, it was obviously a promo code, not a one time code from somebody's groceries. Why are we shedding tears over this?

    • kabigon on 11/04/2013 - 10:31
      +2

      For me it wasn't worth trying the voucher (which could've been rejected for all I know) as I can get 12c/l off any time (standard 8c/l voucher Woolies + spend ~$5 of milk in the servo for an extra 4c/l off) and being in Melbourne the price will drop by that 6 cent difference over the next few days anyway. For those who needed to fill up or lived in Perth, Sydney or found a servo still cheap in Adelaide then it's a good deal, not as exceptional as the vote count suggests but still good.

      Many people probably filled up before they needed to and bought impulse items in store, I'm not convinced Coles would've lost that much money as people are suggesting.

  • Cheeper on 11/04/2013 - 10:29
    +11

    One thing that the internet brings is a means for easy rapid mass communication.
    This can have many and mixed results and this example and similar ones of the past (dell printer $9 LOL) are fine examples of just what can happen. Used in the right way by smart businesses this can be very beneficial but screw up and this is what will always happen.
    Things have changed and businesses must realise this and be even more aware.

    The point you raise is that by utilising this source by the masses to take advantage of "errors" or "loopholes" is it ethical??

    The against case…

    Fuel discount vouchers are normally issued to customers who have purchased from businesses that participate in the scheme and in this case no one had for this particular voucher. This could be viewed as fraud or even theft??
    Some even lied to the cashier when the validity of the voucher was questioned. OK, lying is not a good thing but some lies are necessary in day to day life and it is the size and intention of the lie that matters. In this case, maybe not such a big thing.
    Arguing or abuse is never acceptable.

    The for case…

    The petrol coupon scheme has been screwing customers since it's conception.
    When you think you are getting 4c off you usually are getting only 3 or maybe 2c off as the servos that use the system usually have higher base prices than those that don't.
    They really have being ripping us off for many years!! This is no excuse for us to take advantage of their mistake but it sure softens the guilt level :-)

    Also, how many times have you received a coupon for ?c off and have never used it? That discount would have been considered to have been used and most likely accounted for. For me this applies to about 50% of the discount vouchers not being used.

    The issuing business (Coles) clearly has not made the effort to ensure incidents like this won't happen. In business it is your responsibility to cover such possibilities and failure to do so is purely your bad luck. How many times have you seen an item that was obviously a massive pricing error but took advantage of it? Did you consider not doing so and reporting it to management… no, of course you didn't. Business is a dog eat dog world and always will be.
    Make the effort to cover your ass and if you don't then you will be skinned alive every time.
    ……………………………………………

    My opinion… good on ya's. I doubt anyone really lost out of this (servos, shell or coles) and now they may take steps to prevent this from happening like they should have done in the first place??

    Personally I did not take advantage of this offer… in true OZB fashion I assessed the situation like this…
    tank is over half full, so I buy 30lt.
    discount @ 18c = $5.40 saved.
    I have an 8c off docket anyway so would have saved $2.40 reducing ths saving to $3.
    Fuel used to go and get it.. say $2, thus reducing the benefit of this deal to $1 for me.
    Local prices high at the moment… 5-6c up.
    Add the cost to print the docket out, the inconvenience of me leaving my cosy cave… the whole thing is getting closer to … why bother :-)

    Cheers & congrats to those that scored and even shared :-) .. now where is the next super deal :-)

    • pyramid on 11/04/2013 - 10:32

      superb thoughts.

    • bghunter on 15/04/2013 - 10:48

      well said

  • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2013 - 10:38
    +1

    Good morning all

    I am also a bit concern about this Illegitimate Deal http://.ozbargain.com.au/node/99454.

    Surely we all love bargains however it have to be in the right way and not in Illegitimate way.

    I love my Ozbargain community with all my heart and just don't want to see getting bad publicity due to that sort of deal.

    I think all illegitimate printed out fuel voucher posts should be banned from Ozbargain in the future.

    At least we can protect our great site and good spirits from rorting the system.

    We earned 8c docket when we spent $30 but we can't print out the docket and use them all over again and again. We don't.

    This is just my view and came from my heart.

    Please forgive me if I am wrong.

    Thank you

    Have a good day

    • Cheeper on 11/04/2013 - 10:44

      Agreed, and ethical. Coles may ban reprints?

    • kabigon on 11/04/2013 - 10:47
      +1

      (paraphrasing what I wrote from original dupe thread)

      Why do you say it's illegitimate, the voucher seems fairly generic to me (although the story of how it was posted here is a bit vague). Look at the wording on the voucher

      Limit 1 receipt per fuel purchase up to 150L per vehicle per customer

      and there's no wording like 'no photocopying, originals only' etc.

      Only the standard 150L limit is mentioned. Big companies such as Coles should expect things to be shared if barcodes are generic.

      • mily on 12/04/2013 - 21:24

        Barcode is not generic, just the system didn't update in realtime (or at all) so the same barcode can be redeemed multiple times before the expiry date. It's a hole and will be found sooner or later, spread and use it in massive public will only ring the alarm. Just like the Event cinemas web page's backdoor problem we got here last time.

        • kabigon on 12/04/2013 - 21:35

          How do you know it's not generic?

        • mily on 13/04/2013 - 00:12

          I've seen quite a few of these online purchase fuel vouchers recently.

        • RockyRaccoon on 13/04/2013 - 18:11
          +2

          The bar codes are not generic. If you look at these they reflect the expiry date and the store that issued the voucher.

          1st 4 digits will equal the store. Just look at your receipt you will see that.
          5-6 represent the register
          7-10 represent the receipt number
          11-16 the date of voucher expiry YYMMDD
          17-18 represents the discount 08 = 8c 18 = 18c
          19-20 seems to replicate the discount.

          Other things to consider.

          1. The store that issues the voucher is technically the one that pays. (obviously via internal transfers)
          2. All dockets issued by normal store sales say - "copies of this receipt will not be accepted".
          3. This voucher did not state that, so there was no prohibition expressed that you couldn't copy it.
          4. Without seeing the original, the one posted seemed to be 4 images on the one page, were those 4 all from the original (ie had 4 vouchers) or was it one voucher copied by the OP to show 4 on the same page.
          5. There was a watermark on the vouchers, were those indicating that it was a receipt that the original purchaser just printed off, or was it a voucher that came with the goods?
          6. Most servo's accepted the voucher, so the system couldn't tell if it had been used multiple times. Given that there was some unique identifier, this should have been possible by the system by a programing event. Also if the OP post was correct in that it was 4 vouchers in 1, then it could have been limited at least to 4 uses. It wasnt.

          The "morality" I will leave to others at this time.

  • andy19363 on 11/04/2013 - 10:50
    +2

    Lest we forget….
    http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/87704

  • Natt on 11/04/2013 - 10:57
    +3

    I think xywolap did a great case of summing up the issue.

    Personally I did not & would not use the voucher.

    For those where the retailer happily accepted the voucher, with full knowledge of its origins I don't see a problem. Its just like someone giving you a discount for the heck of it.

    Falsley stating where it came from is shaky ground.

    Getting belligerant when refused is completely unacceptable.

    I hate the whole "discount petrol" scheme with a passion, and if anything I hope this incident has some impact on that.

    I was a little surprised the topic and voucher stayed up though.

    When its taken to its simplest terms ozBargain operates as a business.

    And when one business does something that could be argued to be "legally gray" hence costing another business money, then it can get very messy.

    The justification of "we don't know where it came from so it might be OK" does not hold much defence. It generally comes down to "reasonable person" test.

    Anyway its been all rather interesting to say the least.

    Edit : and I just sigh at people who neg comments just because they disagree with them rather than them actually being factually incorrect etc.

    • pyramid on 11/04/2013 - 11:14

      I guess someone has neg you by-mistake and now its removed. :)

    • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2013 - 16:53
      +1

      with full knowledge of its origins

      What were it's origins?

  • Davo1111 on 11/04/2013 - 11:17
    +1

    I didn't use the coupon, mainly because if they reject your coupon, it's not like you can suck the fuel out of your car.

    I'm okay with the deal. The server wasn't hacked to create fake coupons, the coupon itself was legitimate. Just measures were not put in place to stop re-use of the voucher.

  • MITM on 11/04/2013 - 11:51
    +1

    I usually shop & fill up at Woolies with my Everyday Rewards card, simply because of location convenience. There are more Woolies petrol stations than Coles Shell "on my routes".

    This time I made a detour to Shell - so business their way. Did they make a profit from me - we'll never know because what is the true price of petrol.

    We all accept it is the bowser price and get excited about 4c\l off. Whats to say the price is 20c above what it would be today, if Coles & Wollies didnt dominate the market.

    The independents bowser price is influenced by the Majors price. No one really knows the true price of petrol. It is distorted and even ACCC cant determine it.

    Gotta laugh at 2c extra off if you spend over $5 on inflated priced items like bread and milk or chocolate (for an extra $1 off the bill, assuming 50 litre fillup.)

  • MITM on 11/04/2013 - 12:01
    +2

    Interestingly the PDF hit OzB, with only a few hours till expiry.
    Yet was created a week beforehand.
    Imagine if it was released a week ago - would it still have been valid yesterday - or would Coles have closed it down ?

    Good timing for all to use on the way home or to duck out before bedtime. Kudos to OP.

  • hahaboy on 11/04/2013 - 13:21
    +3

    Not-sure if I am too heartless in feeling that it was fine for consumers to use the coupon. I understand Coles may have 'lost' out, but given their price monopolies in the market, and bullying out of competition/forcing farmers to their knees etc, and price manipulation with Woolworths, they too often fail to differentiate 'ethical behaviour'. Additionally, I do not feel they would have 'lost' much out on a one-time event such as the 18 cent discount, with them having an opportunity to continue reaping rewards for another 364 days of the year.

  • retiredfeline on 11/04/2013 - 13:30
    +3

    My take is this:

    I don't think anybody's job is at risk, it was probably a glitch. Who knows maybe even a deliberate publicity leak.

    Provided no T&Cs are violated, and no servo staff mistreated, I have no problem taking advantage of this deal. However my justification is not payback for high prices or anything like that. It's just that the voucher scheme is cold-blooded and automated. So any losses (and they may indeed profit in the end) will be absorbed by Coles. All in a day's business. They won't love you back if you don't use it.

  • derman on 11/04/2013 - 15:41

    The worst thing that will possibly come out of this is that Coles won't let it happen again…

    I didn't get a chance to use it BTW….

  • offal spokesman on 11/04/2013 - 15:57
    +1

    Cheapest Fuel near my house today - $131.8 Caltex
    Most expensive near my house today - $147.9 Caltex
    (prices from fuel watch)

    To be honest we are being ripped off by petrol companies and supermarkets and if they make a simple error that costs them a few $ then all the better.

    If someone does get the sack, it shouldnt be the guy/girl who made the deal.. but the senior managers that employ under-qualified and under-skilled workers to save money, which lead to errors like this (if it is one).

    Edit - I didnt use it by the way

  • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2013 - 16:24
    -1

    If someone does get the sack, it shouldnt be the guy/girl who made the deal.. but the senior managers that employ under-qualified and under-skilled workers to save money, which lead to errors like this (if it is one).

    The senior mangers thought Australia is A civilized country and assuming that sort of rorting will never happened in a first world country like Australia and they were wrong. So no matter a third world or first world they are all the same as far as rorting the system is concern.

    • retiredfeline on 11/04/2013 - 16:36
      +1

      In which world do you think the fatcat bankers live? :P

      Reality check: Take a course on behavioural economics, there's a good one on Coursera right now. Studies show that the level of cheating is roughly the same across cultures.

  • pg88 on 11/04/2013 - 16:35

    My opinion really is based on this question, if anyone can shed any light on it.
    Has anyone tried to photocopy an existing shopping receipt and tried to get a discount?

    Scenario 1 - Yes they have and no it did not work.
    Then maybe this deal hits that grey area and we should probably withhold or at least consider the implications of posting voucher deals. We've clearly abused a flaw in their system… Though I'm not sure if Coles would be so understanding if they had internally accidentally priced goods at 18 cents/unit higher(without us knowing ie, they were meant to put $1/kg of bananas but accidentally put $1.18 and advertised at 1.18… so we thought ACTUAL price was 1.18… a slightly confusing concept, sorry)

    Scenario 2 - Yes they did and it did work.
    If Coles isn't making the vouchers unique then clearly there is no reason we should feel guilty for using them. While they clearly didn't expect the volume that they did, they entered the promotion knowing full well that their system was not producing unique barcodes and could be copied and used.

    For the record, I used the voucher and I believe that the discount system is a scam to get people shopping at their stores as well as make extra money on the side for those who don't shop/forget their vouchers. I don't know if I am the only one who notices, but EVERY time they advertise discounts greater than 4c/L, the prices are always higher to compensate and I'm paying what I would have paid on the 4c/L a week prior.

  • dealman on 11/04/2013 - 18:50
    +12

    Come on Guys,
    This is Coles we are talking about here, They will suck the blood out of you if they have a chance just like they are sucking the blood out of all the Independent Green Grocers.

    There are many documented studies of Coles undercutting the independent green grocer's fruit and vegie prices on a loss until they drive the independents in a shopping centre out of business, and then jacking up the prices two fold to recover the losses and be in profitable monopoly forever.

    So much for anti competition laws. Reg this deal,

    Suck it up Coles, finally at least some consumers got a chance to hit back at the company that screws them every time.

    If you don't feel like using a code, voucher , coupon or anything else for that matter, please don't that's up to you. For God's sake please do not change OZ bargain, these deals are what make it OZBARGAIN.

    PS: if you have any moral Qualms about using this deal please also remember that just about every other coupon code/ Voucher / Secret code published on the site is not originally intended for the general public.
    For exp the Dominos deal where different coupon codes were emailed to different people at different prices.

    or every other deal where coupon codes are provided only for email subscribers, technically every such deal is just the same.

    PPS: Every company tries price discrimination if they can get away with it, as they usually have more information, than we the consumers.

    OZBargain as a community just makes the information more generally available, Thanks to the OP.

  • demod on 12/04/2013 - 08:07
    +5

    Can't have been that bad for Coles, they are running the 18c promo again this weekend. Min spend $160 Also saw a post that Woolworths are doing something similar!

    • Davo1111 on 12/04/2013 - 08:10
      +1

      yep

      Spend FUEL SAVING
      $80 - $119 16c per litre
      $120 or more 20c per litre

      • kabigon on 12/04/2013 - 12:13

        Mmhm, I got a Woolies email last night for $120 20c / $160 25c until Sunday.

    • t_c on 12/04/2013 - 08:14
      +3

      warming up the printer now, hopefull someone will post it up straightaway so we have a longer expiry

      • Davo1111 on 12/04/2013 - 09:33

        It's linked to the woolies card, so probably not going to work

      • retiredfeline on 12/04/2013 - 09:40

        Got that email^Wspam too. No printable voucher, linked to the EDR card when activated.

      • RockyRaccoon on 13/04/2013 - 18:22

        They are linked to your card AND they give different discounts to different members.

        My dear departed relative, who's card is still active, and gets very little use - gets discounts for spending $20 less than my card. Obviously they are trying to get you to buy more than your average spend. As the relative cant spend there average is lower. They only buy when these deals are on.

        Selective resurrection… Miracles can happen

  • c64 on 12/04/2013 - 09:38
    +2

    meh, noone's going to lose their jobs. the amount they might lose is insignifcant

  • zooter on 12/04/2013 - 11:07
    +8

    Please wake up guys. All of you who are saying that Coles has lost a ton of money probably don't understand that Coles has probably made a ton of money. When Caltex is selling fuel at 131.9 in my area while the price of Coles is 145.9, then it means that the actual price of petrol is probably around 100. Imagine the amount of petrol that Coles has sold. This is similar to Groupon where business undercuts their profit in order to gain a huge amount of business. I bet Coles hasn't sold this much fuel (except maybe on a long weekend when people had no choice). Somebody in Coles is probably laughing their heads off and has got a nice big cheque as bonus for this instead of losing their job!

  • apu on 12/04/2013 - 11:08
    +4

    If Coles were really concerned about this voucher, they would have shut it down within minutes of detecting a spike in the use of the voucher. I would expect that they have constant monitoring nationally of the use of discount codes, and procedures in place in the event of fraudulent use of vouchers/voucher codes. In this case, use of the voucher wasn't fraudulent so they didn't shut it down.

    Come on, they are an extremely sophisticated business with billions of dollars of IT spend (not a pop-up online store or milk bar) so don't be naive to think otherwise. I have no doubt that this thread is being monitored at Coles and discussed internally.

  • netsurfer on 12/04/2013 - 11:36
    +1

    I didn't use it (not because I didn't want to, but already filled up the day before). I did inform friends to use it. With the government taking so much tax on petrol, you bet people would take advantage of the mistake.

    Pricing error deals and loopholes get abused constantly. Some OZBers have learned from experience and only do that on errors made by companies who honour/care about their reputation (i.e. Coles, Woolworth).

    If anything, Coles probably knew about it, but just accepted the mistake. If it were some other companies (I won't name them), they would not honour it.

    Anyway, thanks Coles (wish I was able to take advantage of it… oh well).

  • Forgot69 on 12/04/2013 - 20:17
    +1

    If you can't create a voucher in your system correctly, expect to get shafted.

  • freakthe on 13/04/2013 - 00:34

    I have to agree with Natt that "Getting belligerent when refused is completely unacceptable"
    - those who work at Coles Express are workers just like you and me.
    I am sure you would hate colleagues/customers intentionally trying to have a go at you - while you are just doing your job. It's OK to try - but in a polite and respectful manner.

  • Geewhizz on 13/04/2013 - 06:21

    Question for OP - There is no way Coles would be losing money over this coupon, even if it had been used only by the person for whom it was intended: they're simply not going to make as much profit. Even if each and every person who clicked through on the deal were to use it, the amount of profit they'd be down is a mere pittance in the grand scheme of things.

    There IS no one to lose a job over this, as there is no employee at fault. The terms and conditions of the voucher state that it is for the use of the person to whom it was sent, so if others choose to use it instead, how does that become the fault of any employee. Clearly, if the deal was linked specifically to a card which has to be presented (as in the way Woolworths does it) this could not have happened. They'll no doubt learn that lesson at stage.

    To my question though - while it's all very noble and caring of you to consider that someone MAY lose their job because of a coupon being misused, what of workers at other servo's who DO lose their jobs because of our use of supermarket servo's, and the subsequent closing down of others, where they are employed?

    • _Bruce_ on 13/04/2013 - 09:11

      To my question though - while it's all very noble and caring of you to consider that someone MAY lose their job because of a coupon being misused, what of workers at other servo's who DO lose their jobs because of our use of supermarket servo's, and the subsequent closing down of others, where they are employed?

      So it is our civic duty to screw big companies at all turns to ensure jobs are kept? There is quite a conceptual leap here.

      • Geewhizz on 14/04/2013 - 16:38

        So it is our civic duty to screw big companies at all turns to ensure jobs are kept?

        I'm not sure if that's your response to my question Bruce, or your interpretation of what I was saying? If it's the latter, that was not my intention at all.

        Personally, I never buy fuel from supermarket servos at all. In all the time they've been operating, I think I've been to them twice, and that was simply because there was no alternative, as they'd forced the closure of any others in the area.

    • Todes Angst on 13/04/2013 - 21:16
      +1

      To be honest. My thought process was.
      1) Wow, a voucher for 18c off petrol.
      2) WOW, it worked for my neighbour and now me.
      3) Posted to OzBargain.

      the time between (2) and (3) was the drive home where all I thought was that OzB members could benefit from this.

      I knew the voucher wasn't being used as it was intended by Coles. I didn't care. I shop at coles nearly every week so I feel justified in using a discount coupon they issue, that worked when I used it.

      The statement I made about some one loosing there job over this was more a reflection of the massive popularity of my post here and the widespread use of the voucher. Someone at coles had to notice at some point during the day and find it strange. The deal was live for about 10hrs only and it was I think the 3rd biggest hit deal on OzB ever.

  • coolhead on 13/04/2013 - 15:03
    +1

    Well when i went to get the fuel with this voucher… the attendent knew what he was doing.. he told me these are nor valid coupons and somoene who started it is not doing the right job.
    He then checked with the company (headquarters or managers) and they said we will honor all the coupons which people might bring…

    so i don't think he wud loose his job in any way… having said that its coles responsibility to fix this and ensure the code is invalid after one use or something like that…

  • Harold Halfprice on 13/04/2013 - 17:54

    No one's job is at risk - that's nonsense.

    These large companies couldn't care less about us, why should we care about them and whether a mistake they make causes them to 'lose' some money?
    Besides - petrol on that day, for the majority of us was fairly expensive (145c for me) and we wouldnt have normally filled up on that day. If anyone thinks that they didnt still make a profit on this, even with the 18c discount is just delusional.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2013 - 20:02

    I used the voucher in Canberra where the Coles unleaded price was 155.something - 18 cents higher than someone reported as the current "standard" bowser price in Perth. There is no competition in the Canberra petrol market and the large price flucs you see in other major metrop markets do not exist here. Coles, and Woolworths, are party to keeping the market uncompetitive so no, I have absolutely zero sympathy for the argument that we are somehow fleecing Coles or risking someone's job. A good question to ask though.

  • ferguscan on 15/04/2013 - 02:29

    Coles run $18c/L promotions all the time. They could give a sh1t if a few "professionals" over-used a coupon.

  • pyramid on 18/04/2013 - 13:15

    Ok, so here is my observation at the coles express fuel station on the way to office:

    Unleaded petrol : 134c
    Discounted petrol with 8c coles voucher : 126c.

    I think coles hasn't lost a much amount when we have used couple of 18c off. After 18c off, i paid around 124c approx.

  • Moots on 30/04/2013 - 18:03
    -1

    The usual over extradition of people losing jobs.

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