60k a year or less, What Do You Go without?

nimnomnimy on 19/08/2015 - 11:55
Last edited 19/08/2015 - 12:55

As a high income earner, I consider my lifestyle average but I'd like to get the point of view of people that might think what I have isn't average but actually a little lavish. what do you go without?

To start, maybe a list of my standard costs of living

  • mortgage
  • refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k
  • average $20 a day on lunch, work days
  • cleaner once every 3-4 weeks
  • new iPhone every year
  • new laptop every couple years
  • one major technology buy a year (Apple Watch this year)
  • a couple domestic trips per year
  • ultimate fuel for my car, I don't know why, just feels better
  • 2 meals out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend
  • $4 coffee a day sometimes 2

Feel free to ask questions.. I want to find - are lower income earners actually very good with the money they earn? Do they go into debt? what can we learn from each other

Poll Options

  • 133
    I have everything I want
  • 28
    I want a fancy car and a big house
  • 69
    I can afford my mortgage and I'm fine
  • 223
    I can't save enough for a house
  • 24
    I still haven't got a car
  • 18
    What's a smart phone?
  • 22
    Other
Financial

Comments

    • Sydneyswans on 20/08/2015 - 15:20

      and Holidays I might add.. I usually go on the cheap as far was Wollongong or Newcastle quite often but when they have cheap flights or train fares to Brisbane or Melbourne I like to go when I get the chance….

  • lost69 on 20/08/2015 - 15:13

    Let's see on my 25K or so a year:

    mortgage - never
    refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k - once every ~3yrs for a few hundred (or less not counting shoes) maybe get some trackpants
    average $20 a day on lunch, work days - never, bring something
    cleaner once every 3-4 weeks - never, clean when required
    new iPhone every year - never, $10 phone with long life prepaid $30 every 6 months
    new laptop every couple years - nope, every 3-5yrs and a cheapo one to boot
    one major technology buy a year (Apple Watch this year) - maybe a new GPU, do upgrade my boxes
    a couple domestic trips per year - never
    ultimate fuel for my car, I don't know why, just feels better - no car and no licence
    2 meals out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend - nope, stay at home and invite over maybe or get pissed in a cemetery which never gets old
    $4 coffee a day sometimes 2 - never

  • G on 20/08/2015 - 15:13

    I'm on a above average (if 60k is average) income.
    Some of the things I think are lavish are:
    - New iPhone every year - I used to do the same (get the new phone) But just lost interest. Bought the iPhone when it first came out, didn't like it and itunes integration, ended up getting a phone that had a gamepad in it one year (xperia play) then stopped upgrading. The xperia play had everything I wanted and none of the new phones had the same capability. When it eventually started dying I upgraded to the S3, but since then never had the urge to upgrade (though holding out for a flexible phone)
    - Coffee a day. This is more just because the one cafe choice where I work tastes worst than instant. One too many burnt coffees.
    - Wardrobe spending - I only buy as needed, or metal shirts if I go to a gig. Never been a fashionista.
    - Cleaning - Actually we have a cleaner once a week. Missus works on Saturdays so rather spend our free time together with our son.
    - Mortgage - have one investment property at the moment, I'm potentially looking at a second but the missus wants to buy a place together. She's only just started working as a full time vet (just finished her recognition course, was a vet overseas), have to wait for her to be in her job a little while longer before getting another mortgage.
    - Board Games have becomes my main focus these days. Usually a new one once a month on average, around $50 - 200.

  • kujaultima on 20/08/2015 - 15:17
    +4

    How old are you? I'm almost in the highest bracket, but as I'm frugal day-to-day, I find your spending extravagant.
    Everyone has their priorities in life that they want to splash cash on, however.

    My mindset has always been - travel & explore as much as possible, treat yourself at home occasionally (but not regularly, or you'll get too used to it), save for long-term items of value & wealth.
    Anything that doesn't come under this banner, I personally consider a waste. For me this includes, from your list:

    • refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k (you can buy few years worth of clothes for $3k - but your role is in sales, so you certainly would dress better than I'm expected to)
    • average $20 a day on lunch, work days (this is far too much for me - you should learn to cook! it's an important life skill)
    • cleaner once every 3-4 weeks (once every few months, supplemented by your own cleaning, would suffice)
    • new iPhone every year (every 2 years would suffice)
    • 2 meals out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend (over the top)
    • $4 coffee a day sometimes 2 (not necessary, but I'm not a coffee drinker)

    Again, every $4 spent on coffee, or $20 at lunch (is that wise?), can contribute to another international travel experience, or your dream home, or building your wealth even further.
    I bet you can't recall most of the different meals you've had in the past month - but you can remember most of the trips you've been on.

    What makes you truly happy, rather than just satisfied? Life is too short to simply be content with it.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 19:32

      I recall 99% of them have started with a
      "Mild classic chicken….."
      Probably should change my habits, more to eat healthier than to spend less - most people seem to take sandwiches to work, I'm going to try that for a week to at least cut the chips out

      This week of being sick I've eaten basically vegan so it's been very healthy and I've felt the difference aside from constant hunger and missing fried everything

      I'm definitely satisfied, I don't think anyone is always happy, that would be unnatural but I'm generally happy. Once you have kids, their happiness kind of makes you happy if that makes sense

  • jellykingdom on 20/08/2015 - 15:53
    +2

    I suspect op is probably a bit surprised by the stream of vitriol coming his way……. I think people are overreacting, and thinking that you are bragging. But i know what you are getting at - sometimes I wonder how people comfortably make ends meet on lower incomes, and i think this is a reasonable question!

    I am <30, >100k, but still exceptionally frugal (comes from the ole uni lifestyle)

    • Mortgage = YES, but a very manageable one (wife's second income and low interest rate doesn't hurt….)
    • I am quite into clothes and looking good, but i definitely don't splurge - i buy the stuff that I know i like online when i see it on sale. And I might buy 2x if its a really good deal
    • I always bring leftovers for lunch from home, around 95% of the time. Tuna and toast is a good backup in a pinch
    • Keep meaning to get a cleaner to be honest, or a robo-vacuum cleaner!
    • Bought a new phone recently, but i always buy a good refurb phone from a reputable dealer
    • Bought a desktop PC for $3000 recently but then I won't need ot upgrade for another 5 years
    • We tend to be a bit trigger happy with holidays, and will often just take one at short notice
    • I live 5min from my work, so petrol and a nice car is hardly on my priority list
    • Will often go out for a couple drinks on a weekend at some stage
    • Don't drink coffee, and besides my work has a Nespresso pod machine so I don't really need it
    • Try to stick another $XXXXk or so into shares each month
    • Buy from a local farmers market, instead of Woolworths, so as to save a fortune on loads of fresh produce

    My motto is that I hate to spend on things I don't enjoy, but am happy to spend any amount of money for things that I do enjoy. But i do always look for a bargain. I will never buy something on a whim. I will take a day or 2 to select it from the cheapest possible source.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 16:33
      +3

      I'm not suprised, I just put the garbage straight in the trash. Which is pretty much all negativity.

  • snook on 20/08/2015 - 15:55

    Joint income is now high but I spent about 14 years on around 30-35k.

    • mortgage x 3 but other people are paying and none were bought with equity. Own the one we live in.
    • refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k Have never done this. Last big shop was via outlets in the US in 2009 and can't go back because we don't need new clothes. Seriously wouldn't consider a job where I'd have to wear flash clothes.
    • Currently average $5.40 a day on lunch, work days - buy a large something for $10.90 and eat half and then the second half the following day. Pure laziness drives this. Hint - Go to the shops at the end of the day and get the bargain takeaway food buys.
    • cleaner once every 3-4 weeks - never. Intentionally have a small, uninspiring house that isn't hard to look after or care about.
    • new iPhone every year - Have only had two androids. Have easily had 3 phones in 10 years. Old ones get passed down.
    • new laptop every couple years - Only did this once. Buy second hand things from computer markets when the old one dies or the programs stop running.
    • one major technology buy a year (Apple Watch this year) - Patience. Buy everything second hand. Last purchase was a 60in LG for $395. It's bloody fantastic.
    • a couple domestic trips per year - lost interest in this. Of late, for fun, we like to reno our houses.
    • ultimate fuel for my car, I don't know why, just feels better - diesel
    • 2 meals out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend - probably at least once every weekend, if not twice but the second is usually lazy takeaway. The proper meal is a guilty pleasure via the Entertainment Book.
    • $4 coffee a day sometimes 2 - don't drink coffee

    Whenever I see an expensive something I might want, I think about how many expensive purchases I've had in the past and where they are now. I recently threw a (pre-1995) $2000 video camera in the bin. This technology is being updated every 6 months. It's foolish to waste money on most of it when so many other people are willing to sell you theirs for much less. You just have to be a little patient. I think that living for a period of time on a very low income changes your perspective on the value of inanimate objects & you can never go back. I also think it's beneficial to let thousands of people do the research before I buy. Usually works out better for me :)

  • Davo1111 on 20/08/2015 - 16:34

    poor OP, "slumming it" on 60k/year.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 17:13
      +2

      I don't think you read the past the title

      • Tiggrrrrr on 20/08/2015 - 21:00
        +4

        Haven't you seen the avatar? His glasses are too far down his face.

  • Brendoo on 20/08/2015 - 16:50

    What's your mortgage cost? (if you want to share)

    If you earn a good income in the top bracket and have a huge amount of spare money then what you have listed is far from excessive. I would regard that as very light on. But hard to tell without knowing the mortgage cost. e.g. Is it closer to $1000 a month or closer to $10,000 a month.

    I've taken the assumption you are earning over $200k in my comments.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 17:16

      mortgage is $2200 a month, quite modest

  • chipstss on 20/08/2015 - 17:06

    refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k

  • plentifoo on 20/08/2015 - 17:26
    +1

    For those who live frugally with no mortgage on the highest tax bracket, not only are you paying maximum tax on your income, you’re also paying a hefty 45% tax on the interest earned on all those savings. You’re better of investing in something that grants you some kinda tax saving, i.e. property/shares (negative gearing and unfranked dividend credit).

  • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2015 - 18:37
    +7

    Your post has taught me that even though I earn less than you I can be frugal and be happy with what i don't get, ie everything you have except the mortgage.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 18:52
      +2

      That's nice and positive :)

  • magikz on 20/08/2015 - 19:04
    +1

    Hey can I ask what industry and role you're in? Also what age you are and how long you've been in the workforce? I'm 25, single, and in my first full time role and I earn about $54K before tax. I want to learn more computer technical skills and be able to create more opportunities for myself in that way.

    I'd just like to know how you got where you are, and how long it took. Did you do further studies? Are you more managerial or a specialist in your field?

    Cheers

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 19:13
      +5

      I will in solution sales in the IT industry, my role is a combination of managerial and specialist as I have direct and indirect reports as part of my role.
      I've been working since early teens both for major corporations and running my own companies (some failed, some succeeded) or subcontracting my skills from very early on.

      I don't think study ever ends, it's just turns more towards professional development when your more decided about what you want to do and you start etching a path on how to get there

      Given the slowly growing mob of angry pitchfork holders that are taking over this topic, I'm not going to reveal too much more but happy to PM with you if you are interested in knowing more at this was part of the intent of the topic to share knowledge

  • JoyVee on 20/08/2015 - 19:43

    Living on a low income means lots of planning and organisation. You can get lots of thrifty ideas from sites like www.cheapskate.com.au

    Shop wisely. Plan meals and keep them simple. Lots of interesting stories of people using this site to climb out of debt or just low income earners wanting to afford a family holiday.

    You cannot save for a special project unless you somehow create a surplus from your income.

    I do not understand how pensioners can survive if they have to pay rent even if they manage to find a rental property. They would have to go without proper food and not use heating.

  • jeka1103 on 20/08/2015 - 19:45

    I earn $50k. At the moment I'm still living at home, not paying board but buying groceries for about $100 a week. I get paid $3.5k a month after tax, and try and save to save at least $2k. I generally live off $200-$300 a week.

    • No mortgage, and no way I will be able to afford one any time soon in Sydney…
    • Get new clothes when I need, maybe $500 a year at most. I don't pay more than $50 for a pair of jeans or top though.
    • I might buy lunch once a week, spending no more than $15
    • New phone every two years when my contract runs out, I don't like to pay more than $50 a month.
    • I do get a new laptop every couple years, my current laptop is 2 years old, Ill probably look at getting a new one soon…
    • I like to buy tech. I wouldn't say I buy something 'big' every year, but I might get lots of little things. If there's something I want, I get it. Next thing I'm getting is a surround sound system.
    • I like to go on holiday. I went to America last year, and last weekend I booked a holiday to Asia for November. Next year I plan to go on a cruise.
    • I put E10/91 fuel in my car, I never put anything more expensive in
    • I do eat out on weekends, no more than $30 a meal, some weekends one meal, others two.
    • My work has professional cafe coffee machines, so I make my own coffee at work. I'm slowly getting good at it too! =)
    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 19:47

      Nice what kind of coffees can you make, post a pic of a good one

  • Joxer on 20/08/2015 - 21:08
    +1

    Ok so you want to know how I live on roughly $50k before tax…

    1. Mortgage… Nothing much left.
    2. I haven't bought myself any new clothes in years. I have bought the occasional $1 COTD a pair of socks to replace worn out ones.
    3. No cleaner; mow my own lawn
    4. Pack lunch every day, even though I work in the CBD. Worse case $5 lunch deals.
    5. I like my tech so I do change phones every couple of years but the phones average price is $300 secondhand. I sell the old one too. No overly expensive apple gear.
    6. Same with laptops even for work. I purchase all secondhand. Currently 17" 1080p, i7, gtx680, dual SSD laptop cost me $800 about 6 months ago.
    7. I bought a Samsung galaxy gear live for $150 new. I'm sure cheaper than apple.
    8. I have a couple of international trips per year but heavy subsidies from the parents that really just want to take the grandkids.
    9. 98 Ron because 97 wrx STI … Can't skimp on that ;-)
    10. A meal out about once a month. If I have a voucher.
    11. I don't drink coffee or soft drinks.

    Follow these steps and you might have more disposable income. I save roughly $10k a year and keep it in a goalsaver account.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 21:51

      Did not know cotd sold socks. I bought the Aldi 5 packs when they had them. Worked out to about a $1 a pair

      • Joxer on 20/08/2015 - 23:22

        Sometimes when they're on sale. Business socks.

        No aldi in WA yet ;-)

        • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 23:30

          They seem to have at least 22 confirmed on the way

      • Joxer on 20/08/2015 - 23:36

        I think you'll find that people always work out a way to live within their means… Those that don't quickly become homeless.

  • rotoclock on 20/08/2015 - 21:51

    I’m on 25-30k (varies year to year), my partner is on ~60k, give or take. I don’t feel like we are really missing out on anything. Most of the things I like doing are free or nearly free. Going for a walk in the park, reading a book (libraries are great!), Netflix has great shows and costs like 10 bucks a month…

    We save about a third of our income - we are currently renting, saving up for a house. Then there’s student loan repayments, bills, groceries. That eats up most of the money but leaves us plenty enough for our hobbies – mostly craft and gardening stuff for me, computer stuff/games for my boyfriend.

    • Neither of us spend anywhere near $3k a year on clothes, more like $1k for both of us combined.
    • We take lunch to work most days, and an average meal would probably cost under $5.
    • We clean our own flat.
    • My SO has only had two mobile phones in the last decade, I buy a new iPhone every other year but I buy the older models, it still feels like an upgrade but I never spend more than about $400.
    • New laptop every couple years, yeah, that’s about right for us too.
    • Don’t buy much else in the way of tech.
    • We usually do one domestic and one international trip each year (but I’m from overseas so we go home to visit my family). I would like to do more travel, that’s probably the only thing I do feel like I wish I had more money to do.
    • Partner has a car but I bike which saves a lot of money.
    • We don’t buy coffee out and eating meals out is probably more like 1-2 times a month for us. But I like cooking and I like eating what I want rather than what someone else has picked for me so again this doesn’t feel like missing out to me.
    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 21:54

      Nice, libraries are great and our kids especially love them

  • SpaceNinja on 20/08/2015 - 22:04

    OP how much do you earn out of curiosity ?

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 22:20

      I've answered this in the thread :)

  • a2swin on 20/08/2015 - 22:22

    if earning below 60k a year counted as low income earner, i don't know where i stand as i earn below 40k.. however i spend pretty much the same as OP, right now renting at 1400 a month with 2 beds apartment, still looking for a house to buy. I just love my parents even more.

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 22:33
      +1

      I don't think how much you earn is as important as your net position, financially, emotionally, physically etc..

      It's more about sharing what day to day looks like

  • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2015 - 22:37

    On less than median income a year.
    Am paid 37.5 hours a week, yet am on site for 40 (lunch is deducted)
    Add another 2 to 2.5 hour commute each day, via private transport (double that time if using public transport).

    What I give up to hold a job is independence, a social life and time!
    Ironic, considering how many folks sprout unemployment results in the same…

    I've meagre liquid assets and nil solid assets (private transport is borrowed from a family member before those intelligent enough to pick up upon that inquire) and do not expect that to change in the near future, considering the Sydney market bubble.

  • debo on 20/08/2015 - 23:09

    So…. are you driving a 7yr old Camry?? Great topic btw

    • nimnomnimy on 20/08/2015 - 23:19

      Haha not a Camry (although they are great cars) and thanks.

  • LeoFender on 21/08/2015 - 00:52
    +6

    $36731.24 combined income per year.

    Expenses expected per year:

    • $9360 - Rent @ $180 per week, but need to move soon.
    • $6600 - Health Insurance, Medications and doctors
    • $6000 - Food
    • $3600 - Utilities, Phoneline, Internet & Mobile phones
    • $2600 - Paying off old debt @ 0% for next 5 years
    • $2400 - Car rego, repairs, insurance and Contents Insurance
    • $2000 - Petrol

    I’ve just rounded the above to nearest hundred, but it leaves around $80 per week that goes into and out of an account for unexpected weekly expenses, occasional takeaway, clothes, gifts and long term purchases.

    Have done our best with everything as far as using less, choosing cheaper choices, eating food at home, not replacing anything that works, etc. Might be able to improve food and petrol costs, but they’ve already been greatly reduced.

    Our primary focus has been on making sure the basics are there so if either of us require hospitalisation (which we both need at times each year), the basics are taken care of.

    If anything, we go without the freedom that having money can allow, such as our own home.

    Other than that, we are very grateful to be alive and not homeless.

    • strikerzebra on 21/08/2015 - 09:37

      You are doing great for the amount you earn!

      • LeoFender on 21/08/2015 - 21:38
        +1

        Thank you. For now this is the situation, but when the landlord decides to teardown these units we will be looking for another place to rent. This will likely cost more than just the increased weekly rent price, as configuration of rooms and whether gas or electric cooking/water/heating is available can increase utility costs.

        To give an example, our electricity use is between 2kWh and 3kWh per day, so our supply cost is more than our actual usage cost. If we suddenly need to use electricity for cooking as well, then it will likely increase our weekly cost as gas is cheaper and more efficient for the majority of heating uses.

        It's a fine balancing act at times and took us a while to get the hang of things so we didn't panic each time a bill arrived. I completely understand how people can be in so much debt they have no permanent address.

  • GalaxyNexus on 21/08/2015 - 03:28

    My expenses today are way less than 60k a year (~4k a month post tax ? let's say 45k per year post tax). With what I spend today, I am able to afford:
    - 2 times a year vacation overseas 10k/year.
    - Rent in Sydney including all bills = 15k/year.
    - New laptop (high-end) every two years = 1k/year.
    - New phone every two years = 0.5k/year.
    - Phone plan = 0.5k/year
    - No car. I walk to work, so no regular transport expenses.
    45k - 10k - 15k - 2k = 18k left for food. I don't eat that much so there's plenty of leftover for entertainment, etc. etc.

    If you're single earning 60k and can't afford these same things, you're doing it wrong.

  • JohnnyP on 21/08/2015 - 08:28
    +2
    • Don't buy coffee
    • Don't buy Lunch
    • Don't drink
    • Don't smoke
    • Eat take away 1-2 times a month and eat out maybe once a month
    • Usually get a new phone every 18 months or so

    Mortgage is flying though…. should pay it off before 35

  • ozzybee on 21/08/2015 - 08:48

    Regarding the 'ultimate' fuel, here's what the Federal Trade Commission (US) has to say:

    "Unless it’s recommended by your owner’s manual, don’t spend the money on high octane gas. In most cases, there’s no benefit. Higher octane helps only if you have problems with your engine “knocking.”"

    https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0210-paying-premium-hi…

    Absoloute waste of $$$. Donate it to charity instead, if you don't already? I didn't see it mentioned in the list and it looks like you have the capacity to. If you're going to, do a bit of research into the one with greatest impact for $ and donate directly to them (e.g. via website) to avoid clipping via commissions etc.

    • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 08:56

      I don't give to charity even though it's a tax write off because too much money goes into advertising, admin fees and other bs just to keep the charity running

      • ozzybee on 21/08/2015 - 09:02
        +4

        That's an absoloute cop out. Have you done any reasonable amount of research into the topic? Is that an informed comment? All charities must have some level of admin fee - so why don't you support the ones with the lowest operational costs? That way, you can signal the market these values.

        During my Commerce degree I took a unit on poverty/third world economics and we learned how to evaluate the economic efficiency of giving to charities. You've painted them with a broad brush and they're not all the same. There's enough literature on the topic to be able to choose one with sufficiently low fees/costs.

      • punkindrublic on 21/08/2015 - 09:06
        +1

        It depends on the charity really. A lot of the larger ones have increased admin costs, especially if they're doing work internationally, but there are many smaller ones where almost all the money goes to people in need.

        • ozzybee on 21/08/2015 - 09:12
          +1

          My point exactly. They're not all the same.

          The concept is called 'Effective Giving'. Maybe people should educate themselves on this instead of blurting out a bunch of uninformed nonsense on a topic they've never bothered to consider past a conversation over coffee. Read more here: http://reg-charity.org/

          I think it's sad that you (clickship) have harboured this misguided generalisation. I hope you haven't spread it to others.

        • punkindrublic on 21/08/2015 - 09:21
          +1

          @ozzybee:

          True. Personally the thought of my money going to administrative costs is fine, so long as the charity meets its publicly available goals as a result. The logistics required to get educational materials, food, or a micro-loan scheme into another country is mind-boggling, and if you think it can be done without using any money on hiring competent staff the money will just be wasted.

          Same with moving into new offices, as World Vision did a while back (actually, I think that story started the whole 'controversy' about charity admin spend). It may be fair enough to point out how much the new offices cost to construct, but the view of some people that charities should do all their work from a soggy cardboard box (as long as donations weren't used to buy the box) smacks of ignorance.

          Or is just a convenient excuse for cheapskates to not donate (which is fine, but just say you cbf donating rather than pretend otherwise).

      • phoenixx on 21/08/2015 - 09:18
        +1

        Clickship stop talking out of your ass and watch this.

        http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about…

        • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 12:48

          @punkindrublic @phoenixx @punkindrublic @ozzybee

          its a great ted talk, he is a gifted presenter and very articulate person.
          i primarily disagree because he treats charity like a business, ie- if we have more money, we can do more which is true, but its not charity, thats business and in my mind, throwing a fundraiser to get more money is service for profit which is not a non-profit.

          at the end of it, whether right or wrong in my thinking, if i donate money to a cause, i want to be able to see that all of it goes to what i gave it for. like if i give my brother money for a burger, i don't want him to come back with a meal - i want it to be a burger.

          therefore i donate my time, to people and friends and old colleagues - to help them grow their business, find better jobs, move up in their career path, help with a start up or otherwise. giving money doesn't feel right or good to me so i don't give it, its a choice and no societal expectation will change that.

        • phoenixx on 21/08/2015 - 13:14

          @clickship:

          You clearly don't have a good understanding of the sector, which is understandable.

        • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 13:27
          -1

          @phoenixx: i understand it just fine, i just don't share your views

        • phoenixx on 21/08/2015 - 13:35
          -1

          @clickship:

          Haha. No, you really don't - clear ignorance.

          Nothing to do with my 'views', nice try. :)

        • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 13:37

          @phoenixx: well its nice to be able to hide behind general comments and insults. it definitely proves your significantly broader understanding of the subject matter

        • ozzybee on 22/08/2015 - 01:34
          +1

          @clickship: You're painting charity with a broad brush again. Comparing 'giv[ing] my brother money for a burger' with charity completely misrepresents the complexities faced by charitable organisations in making good on their deliverables. If it were as easy for all charities to deliver their services as it were for your brother to purchase a burger, then they would be 100% effective. Job done. We can all go home. (in case I need to spell it out, and in case you're living in la-la land, that's not a reality)

          I think it's honorable that you donate your time to friends and old colleagues. Good on you. I hope that makes you feel good but it has nothing to do with my initial suggestion or the subsequent conversation.

          I don't have an expectation that you will donate to charity and I hope I didn't imply one. In fact, I expect that you will not donate, as it seems that you're closed off to the idea on ideological grounds. It sounds like you're rationalising your negative response to charity by telling yourself 'oh well, there's a societal expectation and I'm not going to stoop to that! I don't have to do what they tell me to'. Well I'm not telling/expecting you to do anything. I merely made a suggestion and when you rebutted that suggestion with misguided opinion, I challenged that opinion. And it sounds like you don't like your opinion being challenged.

          If you don't want to take the money you would spend (some might say waste) on something of almost literally no value (high octane fuel over regular fuel, for an engine without a high RON spec) and give it to an organisation that would use it to generate a net gain to society, then don't. Fine! Just say you don't want to. However, please spare us all the whining unrealistic bullshit expectation that charities should defy logic and gravity, in that no more than 0% of revenue should ever be used for operational costs, and that since they don't defy gravity, you're not giving.

          As punkindrublic said, this merely sounds like "a convenient excuse for cheapskates to not donate".

          I note that at the end of the comment, you seem to throw in a new justification (which wasn't mentioned in your initial comment) that "giving money doesn't feel right or good to me". This may have been plausible if you had said this initially, but now it just seems like you're digging a hole for yourself and coming up with anything that sounds half believable.

          And I do find this second excuse hard to believe, given that you don't seem to be a complete narcissist (you help out friends/old colleagues). Get a kick out of giving advice? Yep. Giving time? Yep. Giving money? Nope. Very selective. Do you need to get an explicit hedonistic kick out of everything? Maybe that's how you're wired. What about making the world a better place? Surely that's appealing even on a purely logical/academic level? Maybe not.

          Even with all that said, there are still ways you can contribute. There are a multitude of organisations popping up called 'social enterprises' (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_enterprise). The idea is that the organisation sells goods/services for a profit and benefits humans/environment in the process. An example is Who Gives A Crap (http://au.whogivesacrap.org/). They sell toilet paper and use some of the profits to build toilets in third world countries. So since this is a commercial operation, I'm sure you'll have no problem with more than 0% of the revenue going to operational costs.

        • nimnomnimy on 22/08/2015 - 09:20

          @ozzybee: you are almost on the money- you are right that I am completely comfortable with commercial operations with charitable side causes, I support many companies like this as well as Kickstarter projects- this is because aside from providing a service or product, they set a very realistic and commercially viable target and most often achieve that target. That's how business works.

          I don't have a problem with charities having costs, I just hold them to a much grander standard of practise and disclosure because they are using donated money so there should be no waste.

          Perhaps your right and I'm a little close minded but the reason I'm being general is because we are speaking generally - why don't you pick a particular charity and I'll tell you my problem with it and if I don't have a problem, I will eat my words.

          I am not so small that I will not accept when I am wrong or when my views and biases have been proven incorrect

        • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2015 - 10:20

          @clickship: can I pitch in here? How about the Fred hollows foundation or the flying doctors? Also if ozzybee proves you wrong would you take the cut to 91ron and donate the rest? That would be great!

        • nimnomnimy on 22/08/2015 - 11:19

          @poop: okay Fred hollows international : over 20 mil between fund raising, admin and program costs for 30 mil in education and money out to international programs. My biggest problem with this is that those international programs have their own costs etc..

        • ozzybee on 24/08/2015 - 14:06

          @clickship: These (only 4, so it's specific):

          http://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities

  • punkindrublic on 21/08/2015 - 09:16

    I'm on ~90K, which after tax gives me about $3500 a month. I spend around $1500 on essentials (rent, utilities, groceries, etc.), leaving about $2000 in 'spending money'.

    At the moment I'm trying to save 3/4s of this for a house deposit (which will likely need to build even more now that the banks are tightening their lending criteria) and spend the rest on holidays, take-away food, alcohol, and so on. While I could probably reduce my discretionary spending even more (I am prone to the daily coffee and bought lunches rather than preparing my own), I think it's best to have a balance so you don't go entirely insane from frugality!

    • roiboi123 on 21/08/2015 - 10:07
      +3

      $3500 a month after tax from ~$7000 gross? are you contributing extra to super and have a hecs debt? if not, get an accountant and your next tax return will be huuuuuugge

      • punkindrublic on 21/08/2015 - 10:32

        Yeah, I put about $1300 a month into super pre-tax, plus pay a little extra tax voluntarily to cover my HECS repayments. I got stung by the ATO last financial year so I'm happy to give a little more each pay period to the ATO to avoid a lump sum repayment every July :)

  • meumax on 21/08/2015 - 09:34
    +1

    Income is not wealth. Earn small spend smaller invest savings and you will become wealthy. Earn big spend big you will never get wealthy and forever be at the mercy of keeping your job to maintain your lifestyle.

    OP, on your income, if you cut back your spending you could be very wealthy very quickly.

    • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 12:52

      and what would i do with the extra wealth?

      • Joxer on 21/08/2015 - 22:54

        Retire early

        • nimnomnimy on 22/08/2015 - 09:04

          I like working, I look forward to monday

        • Joxer on 22/08/2015 - 11:35

          @clickship:

          Retiring doesn't mean doing nothing. Also, if work was everything why take trips every year? Why go out every weekend?

          Being properly financially secure means time and money available to do other things you never had the time to do or potentially start something new and exciting.

        • SeVeN11 on 22/08/2015 - 18:27

          @clickship: you assume your boss likes you working for them (forever)…

          A job means you only have 1 customer, i.e. your employer. If they don't like you, then you are jobless. It's not very secure.

          Having wealth, will gives you security over all of your family's future expenses so that you can do whatever that you like.

        • nimnomnimy on 22/08/2015 - 18:44

          @SeVeN11: People enjoy going fishing or photography or whatever and they look forward to having the free time to do that - I get to do all the things I enjoy at work.

          I love travelling too and spending time with my family but there aren't other things I'm hanging to do but don't have the time and i get enough time off work to be able to travel and spend time with my family.

          Yes having too much money would be great, but it wouldn't change anything for me.

      • meumax on 24/08/2015 - 08:19

        If you plan on keeping your $180k job until the day you die you'll be fine. Otherwise you'd better start putting some savings away unless you're happy to have a lower standard of living in retirement.

        A $180k salary in retirement would require probably $2m+ in super or other assets. 9.5% shower guarantee isn't going to cut it to get you there.

        And this doesn't even take into consideration the biggest risk of all which is your health. If you rely on income from personal exertion you'll always be at most risk from poor health.

  • ColourWolf on 21/08/2015 - 09:47

    $60k a year is considered high income earner? Is this before or after tax?
    I'm earning slightly more than that and I'm struggling with $4k in the bank each month.
    Why? Because Ozbargain!

    • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 12:53

      $60k is what i believe is considered the national average (don't bite my head off about this, i think the government pulls it out), definitely not high.

      • ColourWolf on 21/08/2015 - 14:58

        I think I misread your post. I thought you were suggesting that $60k was considered high income.
        $60k is peanuts

  • zealmax on 21/08/2015 - 09:48

    Mortgage
    Mortgage
    Mortgage
    Mortgage
    Mortgage
    Mortgage
    Damn mortgage
    Eneloop

    • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 12:53

      i don't understand eneloop, everyone always goes on about them.
      are they really cheap rechargeable batteries or something?

      • strikerzebra on 21/08/2015 - 13:29

        I don't own any, but apparently they are the best rechargable batteries which are of a high quality at a cheap price

        • scrimshaw on 21/08/2015 - 18:24

          The best ones are produced in Japan, many eneloops now are produced in China and are inferior (but still costs the same).

          You can get Japan-made ones but you'll need to hunt down certain SKU's. Some savvy shoppers only buy the rouge coloured ones because reportedly these are the Japanese ones IIRC.

      • SeVeN11 on 22/08/2015 - 18:29
        +1

        when you have kids chewing through battery powered devices you will find a need for these.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2015 - 09:57
    +4

    I am on $53k + Super after only having completed by legal studies (post-grad) at the age of 26. I spent over a year 'assisting' in a law firm for $100 per day while applying for 10 jobs a week (90% were personal assistant roles due to the lack of available entry-level jobs) and working on a casual weekend basis. My current job is now classified as 'quasi-legal' which means that it's something of a dead-end.

    A breakdown of my expenses is as follows:

    • about $150 per week rent
    • $50 per week for bills
    • $20 per week for petrol
    • rego car + motorcycle about $30 per week (My motorcycle rego is my biggest non-essential expense).
    • Maintenance on car and bike at parts only cost. Maybe $10 per week
    • Taxes - free
    • Clothing average $300 per year. I have not bought anything not heavily discounted in over 10 years. Most items are bought used. This is more than I'd like because I believe it's important to wear a presentable suit for work and I'll probably need to spend another $400 on business wear in the next 6 months.
    • Electronics (phone etc). I buy secondhand goods and spend about $200 per year. I bought a used Note 3 when my old phone smashed for $250 last year.
    • Food - $60 per week - most things I buy are based on the macronutrient ratio protein/carb/fat and the nutrient cost per dollar. Lots of wholegrains, eggs, legumes and discount veggies when available. I never buy meat.
    • Train - $6 per day

    Total is about $350 per week.

    I manage to save a little more than half of my income which is pretty extreme by the standards of others I know on $53,000. Given that fact that it has been nearly impossible to move into a bona fide lawyer role, I'm not counting on things to get better any time soon and am thinking about investing all my savings so I'm not an overqualified wage-slave performing work which I struggle to engage with intellectually.

    If everything turns to crap I have a few plans including buying property in a rural area and finding part time work in one of many areas in which I have experience (ie. motorcycle mechanic, freelance writing, research, gym industry) and using investments to supplement my income in order to let me do something fulfilling with my life. I love the law, but after over 500 rejections I recognise the need to have other options.

    A good part of my life revolves around saving as much as possible. I always find it curious that people on $80k+ often feel like they aren't earning enough - particularly when 'quality of living' rises with any increase in pay. I recognise that a lot of people are doing it MUCH tougher than I, and I think that if you're struggling on $80k it may be because you are living beyond your means or investing unwisely. Don't take it as a personal attack, the fact is simply that most people will struggle to afford a family home within 20km of Melbourne CBD due to supply and demand.

    • ozzybee on 21/08/2015 - 10:29

      Sounds like you need to pay $22,000 to do an internship! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-23/junior-lawyers-asked-t…

      • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2015 - 10:49

        Yes I read about that.

        I seriously wonder why so many high-school leavers are attracted to the industry in the first place. Over 50% of my colleagues are extraverted, glib types who are poorly suited to working alone and consider legal research, legal writing, legal analysis and the other 'core' functions of the occupation as the boring parts of their job. Many of them are now working as actual lawyers.

        Senior lawyers (55+) in particular seem to believe that the profession will endure 'as it always has'. Most others believe that the profession is undergoing a fundamental restructure.

    • strikerzebra on 21/08/2015 - 13:16
      +2

      You sound like a very intelligent 26 yr old, I am also 26 yr old and in a semi dead end finance processing role after completing my bachelor of applied finance. Now attempting to break into higher paid roles is somewhat a major struggle as you've determined, I think where people in higher wages get caught is as their wage increases so does their cost of living, they get a pay rise they get a new car, they start eating at more fancy restaurants and essentially they end up in the same position as before. I think where the smart people get ahead is as their income level increases their standard of living doesn't or only att a fraction of their income level increase, then with the spare capital they are using this to invest and their wealth is compounding.

      • frostman on 22/08/2015 - 13:42
        +1

        I saved more money when I was earning 55K + super than when im on the 75-85k bracket now, because of the above =(

    • Knightelf on 21/08/2015 - 13:55
      +1

      This is an all too familiar story. Every couple weeks the fin review will publish an article on the saturation of law students so I won't get into that discussion, but I think you are in a much better position than some others in that you at least have a job in the industry (although not as a lawyer).

      You also earn more than I did when I first graduated from law at $40k plus super (but I am in Brisbane). The pay does get significantly better after the first few years because there is always a lack of experienced (good) lawyers… Don't worry about the starting point because at some point your salary will be adjusted to market price.

      Good luck!

      • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2015 - 14:42
        +1

        Thanks for the encouraging comments guys!

        I was 26 when I'd completed my post grad, but it's been about 2 years since then.

        Strikerzebra:
        If I may share a small observation (of dubious validity) which I've made, try to accept/fulfil responsibilities above your job description even if it means doing extra work for a superior at work. When you apply for their job down the line, you'll already have the experience which your employer is looking for. Figuratively speaking, it's like dressing for the job you want rather than the job you have. I can't say that it's worked for me personally, but it has helped build confidence if nothing else!

        • strikerzebra on 24/08/2015 - 20:15

          Yep correct, try and stick your hand up to help your superiors and keep learning so you will have the valuable experience for that new job that comes along.

    • SeVeN11 on 22/08/2015 - 19:11
      +1

      Did I miss something??? why don't you pay tax?

      Anyways. I've got a thought to tickle your mind. Given that you seem to be very disciplined in savings.
      * In 2 years, you should be able to save 40-50k
      * go find a 350-400k 2bedroom apartment somewhere and buy it to live in.
      * borrow 90%, get your FHOG and stamp duty exemption.
      * Yes, your expenses are going to go up. The mortgage + rates etc. will be 400-450pw assuming 5% interest rate
      * Then get a mate or 2 of yours to move in and pay 1/2 your mortgage
      * Yes, this will still most probably be higher than your current 150pw rent that you pay, but bricks are mortar is a good place to put your money given everybody lives in one. This is hurt money for your future, so suck it up.
      * in another 2 years, you'll save another 40-50k. This is where the pivot will come, you might have to wait a bit longer depending on the credit environment, but this is where you buy another place and fully rent out the first one to all your mates and get a few more mates to stay in your new place to keep cost down
      * hopefully by 30 you'll have 1 investment property and 1 Owner occupier property. Value of your property will be around 800k and have debt of 700k.

      From here, things should get pretty easy for you.
      * you can continue doing this a few more times, but just watch your cashflow, or
      * you can do nothing and just sit on this for 30 years, your 800k should have doubled at least 2 times, if not 3 times, i.e.3.2-6.4m (yes this sound stupid, but power of compounding and inflation has a strange effect on numbers over such a long period of time) and your debt (if you didn't continue paying it off, will still be at 700k) - i.e. you're a millionaire, but obviously money won't be worth as much in 30 years time etc.

      Note: This is not for everybody and obviously has its risk, but given you seem pretty disciplined and head strong (i.e. stop thinking about running in the rat race) I think this will work for you. I believe anybody who doesn't have a gf/b, is head strong, in their early years can pull this off easier than everybody else.

      remember the first house that you buy is not the one you're going to live in for the rest of your life (i.e. don't get carried away with finding the 'best/right place')

      • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2015 - 20:15

        SeVeN11,

        I pay tax. I simply meant that I do my taxes myself (+ supplementary section). I do pretty much everything myself and am currently rebuilding a motorcycle engine. Even though these things are way out of my comfort zone, I find them to be financially and psychologically rewarding.

        I actually have a fair bit more saved than what you've mentioned, but some of that is in a managed fund and I still have my HECS hanging over me.

        I have no doubt your advice is solid gold but I would obviously need to run the numbers against my current short-term plan which is as follows:
        1. Buy the cheapest apartment in the inner suburbs that I can.
        2. Live in the apartment for long enough to get the first home-buyer grant.
        3. Move into a share house (or similar) further out. Something cheap and near a railway line for work.
        4. Negative gear to pay off the apartment.
        5. Flip the apartment and use the proceeds to buy a small house in a booming area. Alternatively collect rental and keep the property.
        6. Take it easy or repeat the process.

        As soon as I find a more stable job I'm going to start a property spreadsheet. I'm saving your advice as a .txt so I can compare it against my current plan when I have time to crunch the numbers.

        I do have a GF, but she is far from high maintenance. She doesn't save quite as much (and she's at about 80k p.a.) but she doesn't bleed me. Once we get to 2 years I will need to have a serious talk with her and discuss a binding financial agreement. That's going to be a tough conversation to have!

        Thanks again for your input.

  • hashtagbargain on 21/08/2015 - 11:41

    Hey op, can I ask how old you are?

  • kat123 on 21/08/2015 - 12:35

    It’s all in how you think about it.
    You seem to come from the (now very common) thought of ‘I want this, I buy this.’
    Whereas I consider spending before each purchase (yes including a coffee!) aside from bills nothing is a ‘must have’
    My budget works by paying the essentials, then the rest goes into savings.
    If I want a lunch out I spend closer to $6 that $20, I buy a sandwich and take my bottle of water, but I still consider that its money that I could be saving, while sometimes I still opt to spend the money, I never think about it as something I 'must have.' (I dont deny myself the things I want just consider if paying off a mortage early will be more rewarding than eating lunch out everyday)
    I also have overtime occasionally available, I always try to take this up & think of it as my 'crazy money' that I can splurge on a new device with or have a few dinners out.
    That makes it sound like I barely make enough to live on but I just plan to save a lot each year and I manage to do this by thinking of saving as essential rather than an afterthought.

    stop telling yourself you 'NEED' things you'll be surprised what you can do without and you may just feel great with the savings you've made!

    I find those lists of how to save money so frustrating, I have never spent money on daily coffees, monthly haircuts or other things I personally consider frivioulous, I always read them only to find out I'm already doing everything they suggest!

  • soza on 21/08/2015 - 13:10
    +1

    To me its important to enjoy as many days doing the things you love…sure you need finances to do this but it is doable sub $60.
    Me and the mrs earn between 50-60K each but only work part time and we have a nine year old son. We have the freedom to pursue our interest, be it surfing, snowboarding, mountain biking, yoga or whatever. We live where we can afford close to the things we enjoy….previously near Byron Bay and the last 3 years NE Vic so we can spend winters at the ski resorts. We also travel once or sometimes twice a year overseas for at least a month…Last year 5 weeks Japan and 5 weeks in Nepal, plus 40 days snowboarding in Australia. The year before 5 weeks Vietnam plus a snow season.
    How do we do it?
    •mortgage –—— no rent as cheap as possible, we have one child so small 2 bed townhouse
    •refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k –—- we do splash out, mostly outdoor gear and purchased online or overseas.
    •average $20 a day on lunch, work days ———nope
    •cleaner once every 3-4 weeks – ——-I wish, but no
    •new iPhone every year, ———$40 Huawei every 3 year, amaysim $30 a year calls
    •new laptop every couple years,——- about every 3
    •one major technology buy a year (Apple Watch this year) –—— yep, gopros, DSLR, crampons, ice axes
    •a couple domestic trips per year—— drive interstate/local, fly OS
    •ultimate fuel for my car, I don't know why, just feels better—— we drive 5k old bangers so no
    •2 meals out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend ——- 2 or 3 times a year
    •$4 coffee a day sometimes 2 —— never
    We are lucky we have jobs that enable us to live anywhere, work casual and a guaranteed hourly rate of $40-$60.

    • strikerzebra on 21/08/2015 - 13:17

      What job is this, $40-$60 per hour which you can do anywhere :O

      • soza on 21/08/2015 - 13:28

        nursing

        • strikerzebra on 21/08/2015 - 13:31

          My wife is an enrolled nurse but only on about $27 an hour at a nursing home, are you doing agency work hence the higher hourly rate?

        • soza on 21/08/2015 - 14:02
          +1

          @strikerzebra:
          Yes wife is agency and I am a hospital casual. RN 8 basic is just over $40 then you have casual loading plus penalty rates. Agency get even more plus hourly rate for travel if over an hours drive and fuel allowance.

        • strikerzebra on 21/08/2015 - 15:05
          +1

          @soza:

          I'll tell my wife to do agency then haha

  • johndowy on 21/08/2015 - 13:59
    +2

    I'm on about $55k a year. Been working for a few years already to save for a deposit. Single and living alone. Most of my income goes towards my mortgage repayments (60%). The rest goes towards bills and general living expenses with a little bit in savings each month.

    I do without anything luxury items or just buy second hand from ebay.
    15 year old car.
    Cook most of my meals,
    Live a very simple lifestyle.
    I do a lot of things myself, DIY repairs when needed.
    Outings consists of very cheap or free activities.

  • chongsu on 21/08/2015 - 14:21

    I'm on 80K a year before tax. Only been working full-time for about three years. Living with a partner who earns 70k per year. Planning on taking a year off work next year, so trying to save a bit. Though changing a few expensive habits might not go astray in that regard. Most of my income goes into rental payments (which hurts) and my professed love of technology and gadgets.

    mortgage - nope, renting (albeit expensive in Surry Hills) a 1 br apartment with close proximity to everything
    refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3k - nope, only occasionally buy new shoes or shirts when sales are on either end of financial year or boxing day sales probably around $500 per year
    average $20 a day on lunch, work days - eat most days out as I can't be bothered packing lunch from home (probably should do this more to save) usually 10$/day on lunch
    cleaner once every 3-4 weeks - nope, happy to clean myself though living in a 1 bedroom apartment makes it easier to manage a whole house clean
    new iPhone every year - yes and since I love gadgets, often more than one phone (i often buy an android flagship second hand)
    new laptop every couple years - probably every 3 years, though even then my current laptop was a hand-me-down macbook pro
    one major technology buy a year - more than one, and probably where i spend most of my hard earned cash buying DSLR lenses, new cameras, accessories etc
    a couple domestic trips per year - try to go overseas at least once a year, went to Japan this year and went to China/HK last year and went to the US the year before that
    ultimate fuel for my car, I don't know why, just feels better - don't drive often as I live in the city and can happily walk to anywhere I need, but I also fill in premium; usually works out to be about 20$ per month fuel
    2 meals out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend - only 1 meal out on Weekend where I pay, other weekend day is usually family dinner
    $4 coffee a day sometimes 2 - once a day and my coffees are between $3 to 3.50

    Overall could be more thrifty, but I'm slowly working towards that.

  • kolorijo on 21/08/2015 - 15:43

    On 70, living with my wife.

    mortgage 
refresh wardrobe once a year average spend $3
average $3 a day on lunchbox, work days
cleaner (you are looking at one of them, yupe, thats me)
new Phone every 3 years
new laptop every 7 years
one major technology buy a year (a dashcam from gearbest this year)
a couple domestic trips per year (Food & Wine Festival & AFL game complimentary from OZB)
ultimate fuel for my car on cheapest day & normal fuel from local servo on normal day 
1 meal out both Saturday Sunday, every weekend
tea sachet every work day, sometimes 2

    Not planning to have any overseas holiday anytime soon, but all these flight deals here are tempting me to the limit, must hold on….

    :)))))

    • nimnomnimy on 21/08/2015 - 16:54

      New Zealand is a strong recommendation generally from my other forum topic. Especially Queenstown

      Also how do you spend $3 a year on clothes

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