This MAY NOT BE for everyone.
Just posting this for people who are building their first home or revovating old one and looking for cheap but reliable LEDs, I built mine more than a year ago and using these LEDs throughout. Great lights. I am not associated with the store but you can call the store to get better rate on LEDs and shipping if buying more quantity.
Cheers
Looks much better, lumenwise. Thanks for posting.
They used to claim ~1300 Lumens. Believe what's on LED Benchmark, not what's on the packet.
THANKYOU! Been looking for these for a long time!
Thanks OP!! I was on my way to Masters to check some out this afternoon. These seems better than the Masters ones!!
I saw those this morning. They are only 10w though
Compare Lumens, not Watts
Ok. Cool. Thanks for the tip :)
Also, they're not recessed like the OP and the AGM ones above. This gives slightly wider beam angle but increased glare. Just something to bear in mind - pick what suits your application
4000K is Cool White. Most people prefer Warm White (3000K)
I agree, I prefer warm white - I have been in an apartment with these at cool white and they are extremely glarey. You want to shield your eyes….
They can be ok in bathrooms or kitchens where you want cleaner light.
It's not "cleaner", 4000K is "MORE BLUE".
I have been in an apartment with these at cool white and they are extremely glarey. You want to shield your eyes….
Even if they were warm white you would still have the glare, and you would still need to shield your eyes. The glare is caused by bad design, not the colour of the light.
You have just found the reason why these "downlights" are a poor choice for many applications - irrespective of the colour, the lighting that they produce is absolutely horrid to live with.
I agree, I think you can also buy warm white but If you have high ceilings, Cool white are just perfect.
If you have high ceilings, Cool white are just perfect
Nope, the colour of light only affects the colour of the light.
Absolutely definitely makes no difference what height ceilings you have, the light doesn't change colour as it falls ROFL.
I see your point. I was not saying that the colour of the light will be changed if you have high ceilings. Point is if you have 2.4m high and 4000K, May be too much bright light/Glare but if you have 3m high, you don't feel over bright as the room is bigger.
Anyways, I beleive it is personal choice. I dont have any issues with Cool White, in fact I prefer cool over warm white.
Point is if you have 2.4m high and 4000K, May be too much bright light/Glare
The point is that the brightness and glare is identical for 3000K vs 4000K, since the colour of the light has no bearing on those things you mentioned.
I beleive it is personal choice. I dont have any issues with Cool White, in fact I prefer cool over warm white
Absolutely - it most certainly is personal choice, however that doesn't mean that it's not important.
In absolute terms, the human eye (and associated brain) has automatic white balance. It doesn't matter what colour light, the eye will adjust and perceive white as white, then reference everything back off that.
However the colour of light has been found to affect mood, so warm colours are generally more relaxing and bluer toned light is often perceived as more "stimulating". Bluer tones in certain situations can tend to create a feeling of "low cost" (ie: cheap and cheerful) as well… that's why cheap restaurants and retail stores tend use cold toned lighting, whilst upmarket ones will usually use warmer toned lighting.
Personally, I want my lounge and dining room illumination to be as elegant and relaxing as possible so I like it warm (300K and dimmed = 2000K to 2500K), and the same with the bedrooms as well. I don't know why anybody would want these areas to be non-relaxing or to seem cheap, however I suppose that some people might desire a bit more stimulation in the master bedroom. LOL
4000K is Daylight/Neutral White. I would only call 5000K or 6000K cool. normally stores sell 3000K Warm and 6000K Cool. Personally I would go with 4000K, not too warm in summer and doesn't feel like a hospital with 6000K
I agree. 4000K is good for all purpose, and can be put throughout whole home or office, without walking from room to room with different coloured lights
I was going to check these out at Masters. Not sure if they are any good? After the 40% off they are $63 for 6 https://www.masters.com.au/product/101464331/liteworks-10w-l…
decent price, but;
6000K
Globe Life 15,000 hours (comparably low, but perhaps realistic)
Warm white here: https://m.masters.com.au/product/101464322/liteworks-fixed-1…
(but seems to be out of stock)
My local electrician told me you throw the whole unit out when the thing goes bust. And then you need him to install new ones.
Silly.
I don't want the power to replace my own lights taken away from me. Nor do I want to buy a relatively expensive whole unit compared to picking up a cheap downlight from Bunnings in a standard fixture.
The only advantage to these is they give more light (with more power wasted). In my case it was not needed.
I thought it is standard now to install these using a powerplug? Just get your electrician to do that, so you don't have to call him again to change it
The LANX includes a 2-pin plug, as do most like these.
Your local electrician is right, you do throw the whole thing away. But that doesn't take away your ability to replace them yourself either - most downlights installed in the last 10 years will be powered directly from a standard 3-pin socket in the roof, and you can plug a new unit directly into the existing plug.
Also, your average Bunnings downlight will be 40-50 watts, where the LED lights in this deal use 13W, with equal or better light output than halogen bulbs. If you buy GU10 or MU16 LED bulbs, you'll pay ~$15 each anyway.
Finally, your typical GU10 or MR16 downlight bulb generally will last only a fraction of the lifespan of this type of LED fitting, so you shouldn't need to replace them for 10 years or more.
The higher purchase price should be offset by the much longer lifespan and reduced power usage, while running much cooler and giving more light.
Also, your average Bunnings downlight will be 40-50 watts, where the LED lights in this deal use 13W, with equal or better light output than halogen bulbs. If you buy GU10 or MU16 LED bulbs, you'll pay ~$15 each anyway.
You might want to check the prices of LED downlights in Bunnings; they are a lot cheaper than this (and very few people need this sort of wattage…I make do with 5W each). My main problem with these is:
I was told these lights are less directional than traditional LED downlights. It's good to know you can replace them using a standard 3-pin socket in the roof, presumably without an electrician to source the part for you & install. Looks like my info was wrong or misinterpreted on this point.
Been buying this lamp from these guys for years, it's the regular price so not really a bargain but a fantastic product none the less.
I know, website price is just regular. I think I spoke to the guy at the store and got better price for about 50 LEDs for my house. It is very good product. I know some builders or electricals charge $70-80 for branded LEDs so I posted this to shed some light on the sensible option.
Yeah, you did good. I was about to buy some cheapies from Masters, but I think I am going to order 1 of these to show the wife. We seem to have the warm white vs cool light argument. I seem to always lose :(
:) Same here..I have white calacatta marble look tiles and these cool white lights..love it.
Dont buy the Masters one with integrated drivers. Not worth the headache when they start popping.
As h0mbre posted above, the following would be better option pricewise if one is going with 3000k or 5000k option:
http://www.agmelectrical.com.au/buy-led-light/wholesale-led-…
Beam angle is better also: 120 v 90 degrees
Could anyone please tell me approximately how much would it cost for a sparky to install around 12 of these in a house with the holes already drilled?
Installation costs around $30 per light but that's in WA.
A few questions to try and help you out…
1. What is the diameter of the holes ?
2. Is there any wiring or plug socket in the ceiling near the hole ?
3. Is there a light switch somewhere near by that doesn't do anything ?
4. Are you replacing existing lights or simply trying to fill holes ?
Hey mate, I appreciate you trying to assist me. I'll get back to you soon with the answers.
Could anyone please tell me approximately how much would it cost for a sparky to install around 12
Somewhere between a case of beer (relative or friend does it) and $10,000 (which allows for almost any contingency)
There is no "standard rate" because it depends on far too many variables. You would get a much more accurate answer by asking a local electrician to come and quote you.
Yep. I was aware of the specifications needed for an accurate quotation but I just wanted to get a rough estimate. Something I could work off before going out to get actual quotes.
Be aware that this style of downlight is the absolute cheapest, nastiest, least attractive, most glare producing, lowest grade recessed lighting product that is possible to buy.
They aren't really a "downlight" - the light produced is much more like an oyster light (blurting light out everywhere) with no glare control whatsoever, and no directionality or character to the lighting effect produced. In other words, in the lighting world it doesn't get much worse than this.
I suppose they aren't bad for pantry, utility areas and hallways in areas where you don't care about appearance of the space… then use the savings to put decent lighting in the lounge room, etc.
But yeah, they certainly are cheap. Ideal for everyone who chooses the absolute lowest cost fixtures and finishes for within their homes… which is why this kind of "downlight" is so popular with spec home builders.
what do you recommend? I find most people like a 100% flush design and not too fussed about the glare.
what do you recommend?
I am a lighting consultant and designer, with over 30 years of experience. Therefore I recommend that people choose the product that suits their particular needs.
However the problem is that general public don't know what they need. The product needs to be chosen only after the application is decided. In other words, after the lighting design is completed.
A good lighting design will position the lights so as to illuminate the space, not create an unpleasant environment for users of the space. So, it might use these kinds of downlights in some locations but not others.
I find most people like a 100% flush design and not too fussed about the glare.
Not sure what a "100% flush design" means. All recessed downlights meet that spec in my opinion.
Nobody looks at downlights, the whole reason they are used is so that you do not see them. What matters is the lighting effect that is produced. That's what everyone notices, the lighting fixtures are just a means to an end. You can get great effects with cheap lights, and absolutely crap lighting even if you spend $1000's… it's all about the design.
As for glare - people don't realise how unpleasant it is until it is removed. Often they just switch off the overhead lights by habit.
Glare doesn't matter if you aren't continually looking in that direction. But in situations like when dining, working at a desk, sitting and talking or when watching TV, the glare from overhead lights in front of you is very unpleasant.
These cheap LED "downlights" are incredibly bright spots of light compared to the room surfaces that they are illuminating. Since they are small and pretty powerful they are far brighter than (say) a 100W bare light globe. If you wouldn't like how that bare bulb would look in your room, then you definitely wouldn't like how these kind of downlights work.
Not sure what a "100% flush design" means. All recessed downlights meet that spec in my opinion.
I mean the diffuser is flush with the light and hence the ceiling.
There are some great solutions if it doesn't need to go into a 70mm or 90mm cutout. However I don't see anything out there that will give 90 degree beam angle but with minimum glare in a 90mm cutout.
However I don't see anything out there that will give 90 degree beam angle but with minimum glare in a 90mm cutout.
Not sure why you are trying to find a 90 degree beam. A 90mm cutout could only be to replace a MR16 Halogen, and those lamps had a maximum 60 degree (half peak) beam angle (for a FNV or similar).
It is almost impossible to limit glare if you have a small aperture and a nominal 90 degree beam. That's the whole reason these cheap "white diffuser" type of downlight have such poor glare control!
To achieve the "almost impossible" that you propose, the downlight would need a really sharp "roll back" (harsh cutoff) rather than a nice smooth soft edge on the beam. Apart from requiring a very deep fixture and excellent optics, having a sharp cutoff like that causes discomfort when moving through the space, and there would be very harsh and strongly "pools of light" on the floor… great for drama, but horrid to live with.
Anyway, to reduce glare you need to have some OPTICS in there (rather than a sheet of white plastic that hides a bunch of bare SMD LED chips). There are hundreds of models of LED downlights that have 90mm cutout and a standard 60 degree beam angle. These are specifically designed to provide an appearance and optical effect that emulates the halogen that they are intended to replace. They usually use lenses like this: http://i.imgur.com/RvJPvx7.jpg or they have a recessed baffle like this http://i.imgur.com/GuaVFTG.png.
Not sure why you are trying to find a 90 degree beam.
I'm not a big fan of the 60 degree beam. it has the 'pools of light' feel that you have mentioned. Idea is to light up the space with even lighting without the glare.
I've used the MR16s with the lens that you've linked to, great but personally, I rather have the extra glare than pools of light feel.
Getting dimmers too made a world of difference.
I agree with you that physically it's probably impossible in a 90mm cutout.
I'm not a big fan of the 60 degree beam. it has the 'pools of light' feel that you have mentioned
Downlights are DESIGNED to create that appearance. That is the whole idea of them.
Idea is to light up the space with even lighting without the glare.
Then you want diffused lighting, not downlights. Downlights are designed to "light down", which means that they are designed to illuminate the floor or whatever they are pointed at.
I've used the MR16s with the lens that you've linked to
Those weren't MR16s, they were LEDs.
I rather have the extra glare than pools of light feel.
You can have great, even, smooth and comfortable illumination, and without any glare. But you cannot do it using 90mm recessed downlights.
This is the role of a decent lighting designer… we know how to solve these things.
Downlights are DESIGNED to create that appearance. That is the whole idea of them.
fair enough, but people are changing to the SMD downlights to get away from that appearance
Those weren't MR16s, they were LEDs.
to clarify, i've used LED MR16s with the same lens design
But you cannot do it using 90mm recessed downlights
Agreed. However people are reluctant to cut & patch their ceilings hence I see why these SMDs LEDs are popular
http://www.agmelectrical.com.au/buy-led-light/wholesale-led-…
Seem like a similar product, I have used the AGM ones as have many others I know (we are all in the construction industry).
The ones you linked are 4000k though so I guess if you're specifically after that.
AGM come in 3000 & 5000