How to convince daughter she doesn't need a Mac?

zaqwsx3 on 28/11/2016 - 17:05

The school my daughter attends has a "bring your own technology" program. Basically, the students all need to bring their own laptop to school, and of course all kids at that age want an Apple Mac ("because everyone else has one so I need one too, and my friends say its the best one to get, and blah blah"). The only requirements the school has given is it must run Windows 8.1 or above, Max OS X 10.9 or above, support WPA2, between 11-15 inch screen, and weigh under 1.5Kg. Now I could go and buy a Macbook Air 11" for ~$1200 (1.6GHz/4GB/128GB), or I could use that $1200 and presumably get a lot more bang for my buck in some other brand Windows 10 beastie.

So what's a good spec laptop for around the $1200 price range, and any tips on how to convince the daughter she's better off without an Apple product even though all her friends will probably have one?

Computing

Comments

  • sw00p on 28/11/2016 - 18:12
    +7

    Say what you want about Apple products and the way they are priced, but they are certainly built to last. Im typing this on my early 2012 Macbook Pro that hasn't skipped a beat. I recently corrupted the HDD. Replaced it with an SSD that I picked up from MSY and it now boots in less than 10 seconds. I can see this thing lasting me another couple of years at least. Same thing with my iPhone 4S - I got 5 years out of that until I recently replaced it.

    I do understand that it is an eye watering amount of money to hand over for a laptop, but it could be worth it in the long run.

    The other thing to remember is, if you give your kid a Windows PC, I guarantee you that at some stage they will get a virus on the thing. They'll click on some stupid banner, or download something they shouldn't, and you'll lose time and (potentially) money rectifying the issue. At least with a Mac there is less chance of that happening.

    I don't envy your position. Good luck with your decision.

    • scrimshaw on 28/11/2016 - 18:23
      +1

      If only Apple weren't such major pricks to deal with when it comes to servicing laptops, and upgrading them.

      • RockyRaccoon on 29/11/2016 - 03:42

        and which company isn't? Every other one also voids warranty etc if you tamper with it.

        • systema on 29/11/2016 - 09:13
          +1

          Try ThinkPads, they even give you the hardware maintenance manual so that you can dismantle the whole thing and re-assemble it again if you so choose to do so.

        • scrimshaw on 29/11/2016 - 11:38
          +12

          This is coming from a laptop repair person. What can usually be fixed with a quick $25 dollar part costs instead $500 from Apple. Not to mention the complexity of the repair.

          Go to Louis Rossmann's channel on Youtube, he explains it in detail.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVAmnV65_zw

        • YellowDieselGolf on 29/11/2016 - 15:32
          +1

          @scrimshaw:

          I got a quote this week to replace a dell 14" LCD. The user had closed the lid on the power cable and cracked the panel. $500 in parts + $150 for labour.

          $650 for a crappy low res 14" screen.

          They're all as bad as each other.

          And to be honest, apple had the lowest total cost of ownership in a recent study.

        • scrimshaw on 29/11/2016 - 15:49
          +1

          @YellowDieselGolf:

          The display is usually around $125~200 from eBay and the labour would've been free if you did it yourself. There are even service manuals provided by Dell which shows you exactly how to remove each and every part of the device.

          Point is, Apple laptops are much harder to repair. Their parts are much harder to source, cost up to 50% more and they don't release any service manuals. Their screws are non-standard and they have a habit of gluing batteries to the chassis which makes the repair job a lot more difficult than a standard laptop. They deliberately make repairs difficult so that it's more likely that a damaged laptop is more economical to completely replace than repair.

          If you don't believe me, head to iFixit and read up their Mac teardowns, then compare it to an equivalent Dell Latitude model and note how apple has designed their more recent Macs to be less repairable.

          In either case, your opinions don't matter all that much to the OP as he/she isn't interested in whether or not the laptop is expensive to repair, more of what is good bang for buck for a student.

          And to be honest, apple had the lowest total cost of ownership in a recent study.

          please link to said study

        • RockyRaccoon on 29/11/2016 - 16:52

          @scrimshaw: You just donbt know where to look.

          See xlr8yourmac.com as one example

        • kasp on 29/11/2016 - 20:42

          @YellowDieselGolf:

          You got ripped off. A screen repair shouldn't cost 600 bucks. 200 for the part and 100-200 for repairs.

        • Wampus on 30/11/2016 - 08:40

          @scrimshaw: Agree completely with Scrimshaw. I'm a certified Dell, Lenovo and Apple tech. Dells are so much better to repair, in fact their business grade models are my pick (Latitudes don't die) from a technical point of view. Apples are horrible to work on, and a lot harder to repair, and dealing with Apple is a nightmare.

          Scrimshaw is right, they do glue things down, which nobody else does, and I know the complexity is so most will replace instead of repair. I know a couple of other brands that moved the hard drive from an easily accessible spot to be locked down below the motherboard so only a qualified tech could get to it, to do the same thing

        • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 11:19

          @scrimshaw: Yeah but if you guys break it, GG warranty :(

        • YellowDieselGolf on 30/11/2016 - 18:26

          @kasp:

          Nope, the person who broke it is getting ripped off.

          I checked the quote today and I was wrong about the price. $550 in parts, $170.50 in labour. Grand total: $720.50.

          As I mentioned, it's policy for the vendor to repair the device when it's still under warranty so that's what it costs.

        • no not me on 02/12/2016 - 06:45

          @systema: while I like the hardware Lenovo lost my trust after that malware shit.

        • kryptoz on 04/12/2016 - 00:09

          @YellowDieselGolf: Many people can replace them for less, or you could purchase parts online and DIY, if you have a little knowhow. Those are not options with Apple products — repairing an iMac/Macbook/etc after a couple of years is just not worth it (thanks to Apple's own repair costs vs buying new prices); this seems to be a poor strategy for retaining customers. However when you consider the way Apple operates mimics the successful strategies behind several European fashion labels — the resale prices of Apple and several Parisian brands are hyper-inflated thanks to near-identical techniques (tight supply chain, near-zero-discounting, select retailers, opulent flagship stores, minimalist marketing, small range, infrequent updates, etc). There are be differences in the fact that Apple is at core a technology-base business, but Steve's roots in NeXT formed the foundation of Apple with a stylish box with (initally) very little inside.

    • mbck on 28/11/2016 - 18:45
      +17

      2012….lol. I'm using a dell Inspiron 1520 from 2006.

      • nubzy on 29/11/2016 - 10:32
        +1

        I am using Samsung laptop from 2008. Still runs fine, but it seems to get laggy when too many tabs are open and videos start to stutter. Also quite chunky and gets hot. But eh, can't complain after 8 years of heavy use. Wish I jumped on that XPS 13 deal from the other day now though :(.

      • ddab568 on 29/11/2016 - 12:18

        I'm using a slim-line dell desktop from 2009 and I'm a software developer. A poor software developer.

    • singlemalt72 on 29/11/2016 - 08:20
      +3

      I have to agree with this - Still using my mid 2010 Macbook pro 15.

      In 6 years I have replaces 2 broken screens and the battery (total repairs have cost less than $200) and it still performs just fine.

      I bought it as a refurbished unit from Apple which was about a 20% saving at the time.

      I am by no means an Apple fanboy, I only have an iPhone because it is the only device my work will supply, but my other machines are Android or Windows 10. They all have their good and bad points, but I cannot fault the macbook for its build quality and longevity.

      • Munki on 29/11/2016 - 13:47

        And I'm still using a 2010 Dell Studio 1749 - have only had to replace one hard drive (main drive). No other issues have plagued it. So what of it?

        • singlemalt72 on 29/11/2016 - 14:30
          +7

          Well, I'll put it into perspective…..from my experience

          Since 2010 at work I am on my 5th laptop ( a mix of toshiba and HP) - twice for upgrade, 3 times for replacement

          Since 2010 at home, Wife as had a Dell relpaced twice and an Asus fixed twice

          Since 2010 Daughter has upgraded once and had zenbook repaired 3 times.

          Yet the Macbook soldiers on…..

          The are widely regarded as more reliable than most windows-based laptops Hard figures are available. Macbooks are generally used more and fail much less http://bgr.com/2015/12/03/consumer-reports-apple-macbook/

          Also http://www.computerworld.com/article/3012211/apple-mac/apple…

          As I said, I am no fanboy, but you can't deny the figures. Yes they cost more and fail less, yes they are more expensive to repair when they do fail, yes, they are bought as much as a fashion accessory as they are for their inherent use - I just don't think you can write them off because of the latter point.

      • Cyphar on 02/12/2016 - 09:57

        I have to agree with this - Still using my mid 2010 Macbook pro 15.

        I'm still on my mid-2011 Macbook (The plastic one) and it still runs like a dream for what I need it for, which is purely work & creative writing related. I have a gaming rig I built for all my intensive stuff, but when I want to sit in bed and do work while the wife watches TV next to me, my Mac is fantastic and the only things I've had to do to it are up the RAM and replace the battery last year after it puffed up

    • picklewizard on 29/11/2016 - 10:01
      +8

      A laptop that lasts four years isn't abnormal though.

      I've got 4 laptops (a little Atom based HP netbook from 2010, a HP Core machine that's probably around 8 years old, a Toshiba i5 Ultrabook from 2011, an Asus i7 brick of a thing I have at work) and none have failed in that time.

      I try to distance myself from the whole Mac vs PC vs iPhone vs Android argument, but your MacBook is not special for lasting four years!

      • klaw81 on 29/11/2016 - 10:58
        +1

        I know right? You just have to buy something with reasonable quality. My wife's refurbished 2008 HP laptop is still going strong, with only an SSD upgrade mid-life. My old Dell is still soldiering on with an SSD upgrade 5 hard years later, on its 2nd owner. Our office laptops are 6 years old and running fine, and they're not treated gently.

        Anyone who buys a $700 laptop and expects it to last 5 years is kidding themselves, but that's the average price of a Windows consumer-grade laptop. Considering it's made with the cheapest parts available, reaching 2 years of solid use is pretty remarkable.

        In comparison, the base price of a MacBook Air is well over $1k, so it should come as no surprise that it's built a little better and lasts longer. It's not like MacBooks are made of some unique material that other companies can't use - it's just a simple matter of economics.

        • kasp on 29/11/2016 - 20:45

          Yeah people tend to compare Mac's with the cheap shit from all the brands. Ummm why are you comparing 2000+ dollar laptops with 500-700 dollar ones and then act shocked the top tier performed better.

        • no not me on 02/12/2016 - 06:55

          You're right. You can buy quality PCs, but they're closer to Apple's price point than the plasticy Compaq from Officeworks that was only $599. XPS laptops compare to Apple in build quality and price but people don't kick up a fuss. Consider that with the MacBook you're getting an OS with years of updates. The XPS comes with bloat ware and you'll probably be paying for the next Windows upgrade. You get a free office suite and some other applications with the MacBook (Pages, Number, iMovie, etc) but you'll be forking out a couple hundred for the Microsoft equivalents (which are more feature rich but somewhat bloated for the average Joe). You're also going to be paying for antivirus (or not). These things seems minor but over five years, paying for Office365 will set you back $500 on a $599 laptop. Anti virus will probably be $10-20 a year or free. Windows update might be $50 or more, I don't know, the last two were free when I got them but 8 was around $50-60.

          These are all things that are factored into the MacBook price. Apple have a team of developers and engineers maintaining an OS that has no resale outside their product line up, that costs money. They also offer software with new laptops since 2013, so the formerly named iWork and iLife suites are now free, with free updates. Not to mention, you're not going to find McAfee or Candy Crush pre installed by Apple, so you're not paying for something filled with bloat ware and sponsorship crap that you must spend time removing.

    • dbun1 on 29/11/2016 - 10:30
      +1

      I agree - I always had Windows notebooks and would change them over every 3 years (if they lasted that long).

      The Macbook Pro I bought back in 2011 is still going strong and has shown no signs of slowing down. I've only upgraded the RAM and thrown in a SSD. Everything (keyboard, hinge etc) feels as solid as the day I bought it.

      I'm only thinking of upgrading purely because I want a Retina screen.

      • kasp on 29/11/2016 - 20:49

        Where I work we replace laptops every 3 years. Unless someone has broken them (Dropped or spilt etc) besides the hard drive(Non SSD) I can only think of a few examples where a laptop has died on its own.

        Also we use old laptops as loaner units and cycle out and junk at the 6 year mark. these laptops get treated like shit but they keep chugging away.

    • Zondor on 29/11/2016 - 10:38
      +1

      From what I've seen once it got to the Retina macbooks their adverage lifetime plummeted.

      They ain't built like they used to, they really hammer in the planned obsolescence now.

    • Lockieasy on 30/11/2016 - 10:57
      +2

      I agree that they are solid machines, I'm typing this on my 2011 Macbook Pro. Only had to change the motherboard (which Apple did for free, despite it being out of warranty), and replaced the battery & upgraded the RAM myself.

      Meanwhile everyone around me with PC laptops has had a constant multitude of issues, especially during my Uni days when people were losing schoolwork thanks to bad PC breakdowns.

    • entropysbane on 30/11/2016 - 20:58
      +2

      Agreed. Here is my experience with recent school computer purchases:
      Bought my three kids computers this year for the school BYOD program. Two i5 MBAs (an 11 inch about $1200 and a 13 inch $1300, about 15 % off retail for both) for the young girls and a HP Spectre x360 i7 $1650 (retail $2200 at the time) for older master entropy. I would regard the Spectre as equivalent to a i7 MBA plus a better touchscreen, which ironically doesn't get used via touch much. Suspect SSD is a bit slower. All three love their computers.

      TBH of the three the 13 inch i5 MBA is probably the best for school use, the 11 inch screen is just too lame but the 13 is a fine compromise between pixel density and battery life. Battery life is very important for a school device and the MBA is great. The Spectre is good for this too and higher resolution screen but more expensive and while battery life is over 10 hours it does not last as long as an MBA.

      Anyway, constant virus troubles and other annoying crap cluttering up the browser even with windows 10 on the Spectre, requiring regular clean up which is not a desirable requirement for a school computer, although a bit of IT tribulation probably toughens him up more than GoW. No trouble at all with the Macs.

      Edit: in case you are considering a 12 inch MacBook, I would be cautious because it had only one USB C port. The older MBA has more port flexibility, and much higher performance.

    • rizza on 04/12/2016 - 02:51

      The problem with people however is they assume that PCs aren't also built to last.

      Look up Dell, it is the best computer manufacturer IMO.

      I am running a 2012 Latitude that runs faster than the average 2016 laptop in its range. Also it is extremely durable! It is a second hand laptop that I have dropped many times, and nothing happens to it!

      Dell also does high specs as well…and best of all, you don't need to use bootcamp, parallels or some other waste of time software to get the experience of Windows 10.

      Just because you buy an HP that cacks itself, does not mean PCs should be stereotyped.

  • zaqwsx3 on 28/11/2016 - 18:14
    +10

    Thanks all for the replies so far - great points raised that maybe getting a device that helps her better connect with her friends is worth it, she might take better care of a Mac if she had one, viruses, etc. I'm not entirely against getting her one; just wanted to ensure we get the best value from the purchase. Whilst I'm on the lookout for a good laptop in the $1200 range, I'm also looking to see if I can get a MacBook Air for a cheaper price. Time to re-mortgage the house I guess.

    • scrimshaw on 28/11/2016 - 20:26
      +26

      hehe. It's going to be a slippery slope from now on.. first she wants a $1200 Macbook for highschool, then next year she'll want an $900 iPhone because she's now locked into the Apple ecosystem, years later she'll want a $2100 Macbook pro for university and perhaps a $700 iPad for 18th birthday present.

      Better make it clear to the kid this is gonna be the first and last apple product you're going to buy for her :)

      • Scrooge McDuck on 29/11/2016 - 09:53
        +2

        Unless she wants a job.

      • elektron on 29/11/2016 - 17:41

        Did you know that you can't plugin iPhone 7 into the new MacBook Pro without an adaptor?

        I mean seriously, I can plug in a phone from any other manufacturer into a PC by any other manufacturer but I need to buy an adaptor to plug in a $1,400 phone into a $4,000 laptop?

        • jenkemjunkie on 29/11/2016 - 17:50
          -1

          Did you know I got a lightning to USB C cable so I can plug all my lightning iPhones (7 and SE) in any of my new macs!

        • elektron on 29/11/2016 - 19:00
          +2

          @jenkemjunkie: My point exactly! My $50 Coles special Android phone came with a microUSB cable, so I can connect it to any PC regardless the manufacturer! You probably spent that much on your cable alone :-)

          By the way, my phone has more functionality than my friend's $1,400 iPhone 7, although it can't record 4k video.

        • jenkemjunkie on 29/11/2016 - 19:43
          -5

          @elektron:

          Nahhhb I paid around $12 for an official Apple one from the Apple Store. Apple just likes to force new paradigms and people don't like change. Understandable human nature. USB will be phased out in time.

          I don't even care that mine can record 4K lol, so cool story about your phone's functionality thing. I havent even connected my phone to any of my computers with a cable. I guess I'm just ahead of the curve.

        • CandyMan on 30/11/2016 - 00:48

          You can connect via bluetooth

        • ozbargainer88 on 30/11/2016 - 15:52
          +1

          @jenkemjunkie:

          Carrying adapters for everything is ahead of the curve? And no, USB will not be phased out. Lightning will be phased out for USB-C. Apple is the only company who aren't going there because they can't make money on adapters.

        • jenkemjunkie on 30/11/2016 - 17:01
          -5

          @ozbargainer88:

          I don't carry around adapters. So it's definite, I'm ahead of the curve.

        • Cyphar on 02/12/2016 - 10:01
          +1

          @elektron:

          By the way, my phone has more functionality than my friend's $1,400 iPhone 7, although it can't record 4k video.

          Now I'm no Apple fanboi, I'm actually an Android fan myself, but I sincerely doubt that above statement very much.

        • elektron on 02/12/2016 - 11:01
          -1

          @Cyphar:

          This is just off the top of my head, without having done a detailed comparison - there are probably others (the Android phone is the ZTE Chat 4G/Blade D):

          • Expandable storage (to be fair, the $1,400 iPhone is the 128GB model but the 16GB model is a joke)
          • Can be used as USB storage
          • Can cast photos,videos, YouTube directly to smart TV's
          • Send photos / music to other devices via bluetooth (PC's / phones / tablets) when internet is unavailable
          • Much more customizable
        • Cyphar on 02/12/2016 - 12:44
          -1

          @elektron:

          Everything you have said, bar the storage, can be done on an iPhone

          Beyond what you have listed, you can't do much else aside from the basics which is great if that's what you want to do, but the 1GB RAM, the low resolution screen and shitty battery life are a major hinderance on a phone that's running Android 5.1

          Tried playing any recent games or ran many apps on it at once? Have you tried taking high resolution images or video? Is your phone water resistant if you drop it?

          You have a phone that is fantastic at the basic functions of a smart phone, but incapable of performing beyond that.

          It doesn't justify a $1400 purchase on that alone, but given the iPhone is capable of so much more, I wouldn't be comparing the two. Likewise for any other premium Android phone like the Pixel.

        • elektron on 02/12/2016 - 13:49
          -1

          @Cyphar:

          Everything you have said, bar the storage, can be done on an iPhone

          So you agree that doesn't support expandable storage or USB storage.

          Are you suggesting that an iPhone is just as customizable as a cheap (or any other) Android phone? Just this week I swapped the Google launcher for a 3rd party one using an OzBargain deal. Good luck with that on an iPhone.

          And how exactly do you stream from an iPhone to a TV without connecting it with a cable and and adaptor? Or shelling out on an AppleTV (or another device with AirPlay support)? I'm genuinely interested.

          I don't game and I've already mentioned hi-res video. 1 GB RAM is more than sufficient for everything else, including multi-tasking. And what are the limitations of 5.1 over 6.0 (or even 7.0) in terms of real life usage? I could have rooted it, which would have increased its value even more, but I couldn't be bothered.

          So if the only advantages the $1,400 phone has over the $50 one are advanced gaming, better imaging and waterproofing, which should be balanced against the features it lacks relative to the cheapie phone - I'm afraid it only supports my case.

          By the way, iPhone's resolution is crap for the price - Sony's had a 4k phone for over a year at considerably a lower cost. Not to mention that Sony's phones have had waterproofing for years.

          And the only reason Google has released a ridiculously priced Android phone is because they thought "if Apple has been getting away with this travesty for years, why can't we"? While it's a good phone I don't see it being a success, because Android users have been spoiled when it comes to value, are usually more rational consumers and aren't locked into an ecosystem that can't break out of.

        • Cyphar on 02/12/2016 - 15:12
          -1

          @elektron:

          Once again, I repeat, I'm not justifying the price of an iPhone or the Pixel. I would never spend that much on a phone. I have a Nexus 5X and love it but you are nuts if you think that your phone is technically superior over the iPhone. You can believe that it better suits your needs and that everything else is a waste for you, but when you compare the two phones on a technical level, the iPhone is the i7, 16GB RAM, GTX1070 equivalent to your ZTE Chat P4, 1GB MB RAM, GTX280

        • elektron on 02/12/2016 - 17:33

          @Cyphar:

          You haven't been able to answer a single question in my previous post and when you realised that you are losing the argument you attempted to change the topic to a war of the specs - with a nonsensical hyperbolic comparison (implying that the iPhone has 16 times more RAM?). Grasping at straws much?

          All the ZTE Chat's features I listed above as absent in an iPhone still stand, including Bluetooth file transfer by the way - with the iPhone, in typical Apple fashion, you can only do this with another device supporting AirDrop.

          In other words, your sweeping statement below clearly doesn't stand up to any scrutiny:

          Everything you have said, bar the storage, can be done on an iPhone

          At the same time, I still stand by my original statement that you questioned, as you have not showed any actual evidence to the contrary:

          my phone has more functionality than my friend's $1,400 iPhone 7

          Mind you, I said 'more functionality' not 'higher specs'.

          By the way, you don't know anything about my needs and shouldn't assume. Just because I don't game it doesn't mean that my expectations are low. For the record, I am an early adopter and bought had the very first commercially available unit of the original Samsung Galaxy S on the day when it was released in Australia (according to the exclusive reseller at the time). And before getting the ZTE Chat, I was using a Sony Xperia Z5 Compact for a year. So I do know a thing or two about smartphones.

        • Cyphar on 02/12/2016 - 19:42
          -1

          @elektron:

          when you realised that you are losing the argument you attempted to change the topic to a war of the specs - with a nonsensical hyperbolic comparison (implying that the iPhone has 16 times more RAM?)

          Not at all. I do apologize if you lack any understanding of comparetive examples.

          I actually did address your listed differences. With the exception of increasing storage, everything you mentioned is possible on a stock iPhone. I did it for 5 years. As an avid iCloud user though, space was of no concern to me.

          I'm glad that you find your phone suits your needs. But as I stated, from a technical aspects, the iPhone is superior in every way. Fill free to break it down how it is not though. At this point, however, as we can agree that we are both happy your $50 phone suits your needs, I don't see how you want to keep arguing it.

    • tunzafun001 on 28/11/2016 - 21:53
      +2

      The school I work at purchased 150 macbooks (white plastic dual core type) I'm guessing 4 years ago+ and 150 Asus laptops. Today none of the Asus units survived. Around 60 macbooks are still ticking. Most break the units throwing down their school bags. Many still work fine, it's just the casing that isn't Oh&s safe.

      At the time I thought they were idiots as the Asus units were technically superior and half the cost.

      I still use my work issued unit today. I undone the bottom 6 screws and doubled the ram for $20. Could easily do the same for the HDD if needed. No different to my old Toshiba. Battery life is still around 6 hrs.
      The bad. The white plastic around the charger has cracked and the bottom rubber lost its shape. 2 USB ports are right next to each other.

      I was offered a new macbook pro, but happy with the old beast and can't be bothered transferring and setting everything up from scratch. It edits video, word processes, browses fine. Runs osx and windows, plays Blackops 2. I would have no qualms in buying a used machine as long as the battery is ok. Use built in HDD diagnostics. No idea what it is now worth,but surely cheap. I wouldn't go that old, but it's a point of reference.

      Lastly, I don't own a iPhone. Have an Android tablet and they all play well together.

      • scrimshaw on 28/11/2016 - 22:10
        +12

        Part of what contributes to the image of 'pc's fail much sooner than Macbooks' is because the majority of people compare a much cheaper consumer laptop (Asus) against a much more premium offering (Macbook). It's often not a very fair comparison when you take into account for who this laptop was targeted at and what kind of needs the product is fulfilling

        If you are a manufacturer and you want to produce a laptop, much of your budget has to be split between these things:

        • the cost of the electronics — the motherboard and processor and memory and such
        • the build quality of the chassis, plus the peripherals (such as the LCD panel, the keyboard, touchpad, palmrest and hinges)
        • the software licenses (operating system), royalty fees for implementing the HDMI port, and other licenses pertaining to the use of patented technologies such as the Intel Realsense Camera (R), radios and Bang and Olufsen speakers.
        • the wages you pay to your programmers who write hardware drivers to the laptop
        • the wages you pay for the tech support guys who work at the phone and the technicians who are trained to repair the laptops.

        Now if you want to make a cheap Valuebox for the everyday consumer (low income), you're probably going to have to split the costs quite evenly across them. The end product is something like a HP Pavillion or a Acer Aspire, which are very hum-ho and average computers that are made mostly of plastic, don't have very good keyboards and so on. These are the kinds of laptops you buy from CostCo, officeworks and the Good Guys. They are cheap and they sell fast.

        But a laptop for business use you're going to have to sell based on how reliable your product is. Because businesses want tough reliable machines with a low failure rate and longevity, plus it needs to have a great technical / warranty support. The people who deliver this product must provide ongoing 24 hour telephone support and the technicians must carry the spare parts to repair the laptop throughout it's product lifecycle. A good example is the Dell Latitude 7000 series or HP Folio 1040 (which are much more expensive than MB Airs)

        But many regular buyers don't see the point of a super-reliable machine, when laptops have become such commodities they don't see the point in paying $1500 for a laptop that's only going to be used for Internet Explorer and MS Office.

        Have a read here and see why you should avoid mainstream / consumer laptops.

        • RockyRaccoon on 29/11/2016 - 03:52

          In this case you make sense, but as the OP and many others here use the PC is cheaper than the Mac argument, then Apples arent Oranges.

          (It could be said, you made a similar argument a few posts above - about upgrading and after sales support)

          The real argument is quality vs price.

          In business time taken to replace data etc is a big cost factor.

          Like a cheap power drill, it's ok if you use it once a month, whereas if you use it everyday every hour then while the cheapy might last, if it fails then the lost productivity when that happens can be more costly.

      • entropysbane on 30/11/2016 - 21:11

        I am think that was a lot longer than four years ago…I don't think Apple have sold a white one for at least seven years. All aluminium for a long time.

        • tunzafun001 on 30/11/2016 - 21:41

          Haha, Might have been 2011 now I think of it…well it's still going strong. Definitely would go aluminium for a school environment though.

  • altomic on 28/11/2016 - 18:17
    +2

    Hackintosh

  • cheapisgood on 28/11/2016 - 18:20
    +1

    If it's for school purposes, specs ain't too important. You don't need a beast. Also consider battery life as one important aspect.

    Also remember that Mac has a higher resale value then a Windows Comp so keep that in mind.

    Also different OS.

    if she really wants Mac, consider asking her to chip it, do chores etc.

    Or Buy last year model or a refurb one to save some money.

  • try2bhelpful on 28/11/2016 - 18:32
    +1

    This might be worth looking at, also some stores have 10% off sales for Macs at time to time, then you can go chat to Office Works about a price match.

    http://www.apple.com/au/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac?af…

    My man has a MAC which he is happy with, I went the HP Spectre - which I am happy with. Generally I am an Apple girl for phones and tablets, but I like Windows for my PCs. I don't swallow the Koolaid, I just like the products I have.

    • brokenglish on 29/11/2016 - 08:07

      ^ +1
      This is what you wanted OP

  • altomic on 28/11/2016 - 19:19
    +11

    Bikies

    • cypher67 on 28/11/2016 - 19:42

      Beat me to it

    • slipperypete on 29/11/2016 - 12:34

      don't get it!!

      • Lockieasy on 30/11/2016 - 16:39
        +1

        He's saying the OP could get bikies to convince his daughter :P

  • kryptoz on 28/11/2016 - 19:56
    +3

    I just bought a LENOVO YOGA 20G8S08200 for my daughter, which she is super happy with, even after lusting after Macbooks — at just over a grand it leaves some cash for Office and other apps, and about half the price of a comparable Apple Macbook.
    Also, for school use, a smaller screen is more practical — 11-13in at most.
    If she is using it only at home you should just buy a desktop, or a laptop with a ~17" screen, since bulk/weight won't be an issue.

    • pennae on 29/11/2016 - 23:36
      +1

      Check that she doesn't already have a school license for Office - you can often sign up for Office 360 using an education email address

  • mooney on 28/11/2016 - 21:07
    +6

    My hot tip.. just get her the Mac Air. It will be more than enough for what she needs and is within your price band. If you couldnt afford it, then fair enough buy a cheaper option, but it seems you can so why push through an alternative just because you have different priorities towards buying a computer.

    You get the mac you cannot lose, you get a windows alternative you may win, but if its ends up being a POS you will be reminded of it constantly.

    • klaw81 on 29/11/2016 - 10:53
      +1

      You forget the possibility of the Mac being a POS. Yes, it does happen - my brother-in-law went through 3 Airs in a 4 year uni course. Terrible performance, split casing, weird screen artifacts, random freezes, short battery life. Some issues were covered by warranty, others were repaired for $$$, 1 was a replacement job. It still looked brand new, so he wasn't treating it badly….he just happened to get lemons.

      • entropysbane on 30/11/2016 - 21:15

        Yes, Still poseiblevwith a Mac, but itthen won't get blamed on the OP. Nobody scorns like a teenage girl (shakes head while remembering awful memories of school years).

  • devz on 28/11/2016 - 21:09
    +2

    Go windows laptop, it can be repaired at many places, and it will need repairing. Kids dont understand the worth of $1000. Theres only one place Apple products get looked at, and thats apple stores. Most are unfamiliar with the term repair & are happier to send it off/provide replacement. As for your data, well, you better backup. For that you will need a time machine, and proprietary this, and proprietary that. Note: Apple makes alot off peripheral pricing , once you buy into the trap, suddenly buying a $20 usb cable, a $99 mouse, etc. all becomes the norm.

    Also, portables get more expensive as the screen gets smaller than the standard 15", do your daughters eyes and hands some justice, get a standard sized laptop.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 12:34

      Except kids don't treat their MacBooks like shit, they treat it like a grail, they treat Windows laptops like shit.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 28/11/2016 - 21:26
    +6

    I can see that there is just too many rich parent here to spoil their kids.

    Mac book for high school?? which spec is needed for high school? internet speed? fast processing for games?

    I see that a $500 laptop these days is enough for normal school work.

    I would suggest you make a plan for your daughter to pay the money back including good result ( 1st or 2nd in class), weekly house work? volunteer work ( this way she could be benefit as well as the community)?

    For a too easy to get device for your kids, they will not look after it well. Also expose some risk too, if she is using it in the public and people might steal is from her, losing the mac isn't the biggest deal but sometime get harm because of the device that you have bought and this make you regret.

    If you are doing re mortgage to buy a Mac for your daughter, you really need to let her know and ask her to pay/earn back the money, even ask her to work in McDonald for just one day and she will think again.

  • p1 ama on 28/11/2016 - 21:32

    Now I could go and buy a Macbook Air 11" for ~$1200 (1.6GHz/4GB/128GB), or I could use that $1200 and presumably get a lot more bang for my buck in some other brand Windows 10 beastie.

    Depends on what you mean by 'bang for buck'. If it's not something you want, then it will be bad bang for buck, if it is something you do want, it will be good bang for buck. Ultimately, my suggestion is to figure out how much you want to spend, then just give her the money and let her buy what she wants with it.

    Everybody's notion of value is different. I know somebody who owns a Porsche but still rents a place to live. I don't think the guy has his priorities straight, but hey, he's happy and he's not hurting anyone. I think that's what it comes down to - she'll be the one using the laptop, she should get what she wants. You complain about Apple marketing and brainwashing or whatever, but trying to 'convince' her to get Windows is exactly the same thing, just in reverse.

  • Wystri Warrick on 28/11/2016 - 21:34
    +2

    Apple ? how did this happen :/

  • renster72 on 28/11/2016 - 21:38

    If you are going to spend the same money get the Mac, if you don't any and every problem will be your fault! , check out Myer sometimes they have some good deals. As far as convincing goes good luck with that! or buy this http://www.megabuy.com.au/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-i5-25ghz…

  • Noire on 28/11/2016 - 22:11
    +2

    During high school I've only seen the girls using Macbooks none from the guys for some reason

    • dbun1 on 29/11/2016 - 12:09
      +1

      Most likely the fact that Macbooks aren't known for their gaming performance.

      • infinite on 29/11/2016 - 16:55
        +7

        Or any type of performance, if were being honest.

        • dbun1 on 30/11/2016 - 08:47

          At least they come with a spell checker

  • StickMan on 28/11/2016 - 23:09
    +2

    I'm glad I got my balls snipped. ~$1500 every 3 years as extra, I can't even imagine. RIP wallet. :(

  • sunnyc on 29/11/2016 - 00:05
    -2

    3 choices, Macbook, Surface or HP. (This part is very important) The rest are rubbish. Don't buy the cheapest one you see. Buy one that professionals use because they perform better, last longer and can be integrated into her professional life. Quality over Quantity. Rather buy 1 laptop than 2-6 over a child's high school career. I've been given soo many laptops and tablets which I just regifted because they break or crash or explode. All that wasted time has been avoided.
    You must always spoil your daughters.

    Specs that are must have are
    8gb ram
    12 inch screen or larger
    dedicated graphics card
    4 core cpu
    no cd drive
    no led toolbar
    usb ports
    SSD

    Written from Macbook Pro with 30k hours

    • StickMan on 29/11/2016 - 00:08
      +4

      Lol, you suggest a $3000 MacBook pro for someone starting high school? But it can't be the new one? M8 your use case and a kids are completely different.

      • sunnyc on 29/11/2016 - 00:17
        -3

        around the 1.6k to 2.5k range.
        I got mine during high school. Still works now. I threw away 8 laptops and 2 all in ones that my parents have bought within 4 years. That is 9k in the drain and countless hours fixing the viruses and reinstalling the computers.

    • scrimshaw on 29/11/2016 - 00:22
      +2

      dGPU and a quad core processor are just luxuries to a schoolkid. These I would personally love to have in my notebook but schoolkids? That's extremely overkill

      • sunnyc on 29/11/2016 - 00:31
        -1

        The GPU may be excessive but dual core will slow down any computers running too many softwares or tabs

        • StickMan on 29/11/2016 - 01:09
          +2

          "Too many" ????

          At this point why don't we equip her with the $5000 MBP and call at a day? Why even bother with a $700 Windows laptop and SSD, eh?

    • systema on 29/11/2016 - 09:16

      So essentially - buy a ThinkPad? Modular, durable, milspec tested. Just avoid the E-series… HP is hopeless in my experience, lol.

    • dbun1 on 29/11/2016 - 12:11

      Buy one that professionals use because they perform better, last longer and can be integrated into her professional life

      This is a good point - if going Windows, at least go with a "business grade" laptop as it will have the best chance of surviving

      • decr on 01/12/2016 - 08:18
        +1

        Best comment in the thread so far. Forget consumer grade laptops.

  • scupper on 29/11/2016 - 03:49
    +3

    It's for highschool, get something from the Dell Outlet. Also, probably good to talk about materialism and not being defined by the items you own.

    For those saying that Apple products keep their value, based on the reception of their most recent updates, it seems like the tide's turning.

  • xoom on 29/11/2016 - 07:05
    +2

    Whichever the OP gets their kid. They better quickly learn said laptops value and not throw it around and treat it with great care.

    Virtually nothing survives being bashed around, thrown or dropped specially laptops.

    Not just the value of the device but the value of the contents in it like not backed up homework/assessment or projects.

  • factor on 29/11/2016 - 07:40
    +3

    A 2012 MacBook Air is still a great computer. I got one off eBay for <$400. You can readily get them for <$500.

    New is an unnecessary extravagance unless used heavily for professional graphical work. Programmers and the like don't need new. School students definitely don't.

    Upgrades to the latest OS are free, the computer performs well on the latest version. Backups are easy — you must buy a big external drive for that purpose (then lookup "Time Machine" to enable backups).

    Maintenance can be done by your daughter (hardware and software). If she breaks one you can afford to buy another at the budget given.

    • cuteseal on 01/12/2016 - 09:34

      This… I'd be loath to give my child a brand new macbook that's just going to be bouncing around their backpacks..

  • Randxyz123 on 29/11/2016 - 08:10

    Now I could go and buy a Macbook Air 11" for ~$1200 (1.6GHz/4GB/128GB),

    I'd personally have a browse through the refurb store and/or wait for the back to school specials to start next year. Don't forget that you can buy from the education store.

    The BTS deals change each year but in recent years you have been able to get a 'bonus' pair of beats headphones or a voucher or similar.

    I personally would also go for something with 8GB of RAM as well to future proof it a little bit and push for a 13" screen.

    Oh and for the love of god buy an external hard drive for backups with time machine.

    It's her job to plug it in every night to back it up. Sign her up for iCloud and tell her to put anything school related on there. That way if she loses it, spills a drink on it, it gets stolen because someone is jealous their $300 computer isn't as good, etc (S*** happens) she has all her school work.

  • NickosFoivos on 29/11/2016 - 08:23
    +2

    Say no. If she wants a Mac, she better work to get one. Not all kids have macs, unless they go to very expensive schools.

    These days, parents have no control over their children.

    There are plenty of pcs with great specs and w10 for way less.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/11/2016 - 08:38
      +1

      "These days, parents have no control over their children".
      I think you mean, "These days some parents decide not to control their children".

      • NickosFoivos on 29/11/2016 - 08:53
        +2

        Parents bear the responsibility to have some control over their children. Children need guidance and may I say, some discipline.

        • stonkered on 29/11/2016 - 16:46

          Discipline Tony!

  • vietken89 on 29/11/2016 - 08:47
    +1

    I've been 3 sony laptops from highschool, uni and now…O_o don't know why apple is highly regarded. You can pick up something bang for buck at either officework or msy that's quite capable to handle school work and some gaming for 1.2k

    • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 01:04

      You're right but the requirements of schools have gone up (particularly high schools), most kids will have baseline i3 with 4gb of RAM with 2.4GHz wireless and school will recommend i5 with 8gb of RAM or 16gb if using particular programs. The price of those laptops (at least the reliable ones) starts at $1000.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 12:40
      -1

      I don't think a teenage girl is gonna game

  • shaybisc on 29/11/2016 - 08:51
    +1

    How many Macs does a kid need to make it through high school? Do you buy them a new one every year?

    The most expensive piece of school gear I had was my trousers ha ha. I once destroyed 3 pair in a fortnight playing touch footy on the basketball courts at lunch time.

  • MasterNoob on 29/11/2016 - 08:54

    If she wants a mac, give her a mac. Just get her a MacBook Air 13 inch on one of those 10% - 15% off sales.

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