Should I go to court over speeding fine? NSW

Got speeding fine. The reason for ticket was speeding under 10 km/h at 60 zone(73km/h).Checked the camera picture, and find out I was turning into right. Please check the pictures, my vehicle is "B"
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/208304/46035/pic1.jpg
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/208304/46036/pic2.jpg

Argument 1. I did write for a review to SDRO, and told them that it's impossible to turn right while doing 73km/h.
They replied that penalty stands, meaning I still have to pay the fine. But on the letter explains speed camera senses every single lane, every single cars speed.

Argument 2. After I got reply from SDRO, checked picture again, and find out that there is more information on top left corner of the picture. And it says "..lane:1..". I thought it means offender is on lane 1. Called them directly, and explained that I was on the lane 3. Operator says "Oh yes, I see that, can I put you on hold", then I thought, everything is ok, It's clear that it wasn't my vehicle doing speeding after all. And he comes back says penalty still stands, I asked "Why"?, He says "you need to go to court, there is only 1 review, and they've done it". I said "but you can see that it wasn't my vehicle?, it says lane 1", He goes "I DON'T KNOW WHICH IS LANE 1, AND WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE CAMERA". I was shocked, and don't know what to do.

Option 1. Go to court, and take the day off from my work, no earning for that day, and fight for the $114 fine.
Option 2. Pay the fine, and move on.

Question 1. What is lane 1?
Question 2. Should I go to court, how successful am I?
Question 3. Is there any way to fight without going to court?

Thank you.

UPDATE.
Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

Poll Options

  • 8
    Pay the fine, and move on, there is no chance for you.
  • 453
    Go to court, you have a good chance
  • 12
    Go to court, and good luck
  • 2
    There is other way

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Comments

  • +22 votes

    See your state Member Of Parliament. Contact local newspaper.

    Embarrass them in to action.

    • -1 vote

      You winz this thread.
      Scrooge put up a great comment, but there's nothing like an embarrassing written apology to you.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +4 votes

    I had no idea that Hyundais had such good handling that they could make a corner like that at 73km/h! You would be understeering straight into the traffic light pole! What a ridiculous infringement.

  •  

    Haven't read all comments but the fine is meant for car A, why did you get the fine if you are car B ?

    • +4 votes

      Robo Cop stuff up, topped with human review mess up, tied with inflexible red tape.

    • +2 votes

      That's pretty demoralising if you still need to pay the court costs if you win.
      What happens if you don't pay the fine?
      Is the 'Innocent until proven guilty' stance good enough?

    • +2 votes

      You don't have to go to court twice.

  • +17 votes

    Current affairs tv shows would love this.

    Show the pictures. State you will be out of pocket to go to court etc.
    State the SDRO refused to review etc.

    I'd actually call SDRO back now too, ask to speak to manager, state you are prepared to contact TV current affairs show.
    State you will be recording phone call.

    • +7 votes

      Current affairs tv shows would love this.

      Even the Sydney Morning Herald would run a story like this nowadays. Perfect clickbait and comment bait, and the camera picture provides a catchy image to go with the story.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +6 votes

    call the sdro on 1300138118 and say that the wrong vehicle was fined

    hopefully you speak to someone else and they do a switch a roo

    •  

      This may work. When you start from "this is wrong" the OP might get a different response than asking questions and being meek.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +4 votes

    I would of thought that when you select to go to court SDRO would preview their evidence to have presented to the magistrate.
    Once they realise they made a mistake they would drop the charge allowing you to not have the hassle of having to go to court.
    I don't imagine a magistrate would like his time wasted especially by a government organisation that should have safeguards in place to stop this happening.
    This is the process followed by my local council regarding parking infringements.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +7 votes

    Am surprised how low our system has reached. Anything to get money out of us.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +8 votes

    It is physically impossible that you were doing 73 km/h when turning. I agree with the above posters, get some media attention and take it to court.

    • +3 votes

      It's clearly a Porsche wrapped in a Hyundai's body. No? Just squint a little ; l

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  •  

    I would write in and ask for clarification on that specific camera to identify how the lanes are numbered.
    If Lane 1 = Car A, then respond with your photo and ask them to "please explain".
    If Lane 1 = you…then you'll need probably some form of engineering expert who can perform measurements and calculate speed of vehicles optically between the two photos…and take that to court.

    But yes…very tempting to get ACA or some news program to rub their faces in it! :)

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +4 votes

    Firstly - you are definitely in the right here and it's not even about chances. They have the wrong car and it's very clear you did not make a right turn at 73km/h.

    Secondly, once a fine is given - there is a review process if you write to the SDRO and they have conducted it and unfortunately they made a mistake again and therefore they cannot help you now. If it was me I would write another letter with photo evidence but put it on a law firm letterhead or ask a solicitor to help (such as someone from the office / friend).

    Definitely go to court. The proof you have is beyond doubt enough to contest the fine. I'm almost certain you do not have to go to court twice - I have previously contested parking fines etc with photographic evidence and got results on the spot.

    The judge has the power to decide if you need to pay court costs or not and sometimes they do not ask for court costs to be paid.

    Even so - the $68 court costs should far outweigh the fine you have to pay but more importantly should outweigh a strike on your driving record.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +4 votes

    Three key points to note:

    • You can tell which driver/car is the guilty one by looking at which car braked when the second flash went off.
    • Vehicle C was stationary at the same spot the whole time, indicating vehicle B was in fact standing still waiting for a gap before turning right.
    • There is zero body roll when vehicle B turned right, a turn speed at 73 km/h would be clearly noticeable by looking at the wheel arch gap

    I've read and heard several incidents similar to this. It is not uncommon for SDRO to issue infringement notices for every vehicle's license plate in the photo. I would not be surprised if all three vehicles in this photo were issued with infringement notices. They know many people start panicking when they receive the fine and just pay up without, at the very least, checking the evidence.

    • +3 votes

      a turn speed at 73 km/h would be clearly noticeable by looking at the wheel arch gap

      As well as the inside tyres being completely off the ground…

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +5 votes

    Accepting a speeding fine puts demerits on your licence
    Demerits likely increase the cost of CTP for the next 3-4 years until demerits exhausted
    This is often $150-$200 p.a.

    TL/DR - cost might be $700+ with CTP - not $114

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +3 votes

    The big question is what happen to car A?

    • +3 votes

      Stay tuned to Ozbargain for further developments.

    • +18 votes

      Legend has it it's still speeding in lane 1 to this day

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +6 votes

    Not sure why someone hasn't mentioned this yet, but it's pretty easy to win this one in court with the hard evidence provided. No questions or trying to infer anything, it's all presented plain as day.

    The time lapse between the two photos is 0.39 seconds according to their time stamps at the top.

    73km/h = 20.5 meters/second.

    That means your car should have travelled 8m between those two frames.

    It's easy to see (look at the right rear wheel) that your car travelled approx. 1m between frames. Your speed was around 10km/h.

    Good luck and I hope this insanity by SRDO doesn't cost you too much of your day.

    • +2 votes

      Ah my bad I see @scroogemcduck already posted this above. Nice job :)

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +4 votes

    This may be a little over the top, but have you thought of contacting news.com.au or channel nine, seven or similar. I find it ridiculous that you have to lose a day off work, as well as all the hassles of attending court, as well waste the court's time for being there, for a simple bureaucratic error.
    Any clown can see that your car was stationary in the picture waiting for the light and that there is no way you could have been speeding. You can judge it from the amount of distance covered by your car in the two photos, as well as the fact that the car behind you is stationary in both shots, so you would have had to accelerate to 73kmh in the space of 1 meter.
    In my book the response of "you only get one review" is pathetic when you consider all the other implications of having to attend court for what was clearly a clerical error. I would see if a news outlet would be interested in a story that shows how taxpayers time and money is being wasted.

    • +2 votes

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

      •  

        That's fantastic mate. Thanks for the individual update to everybody to keep us in the loop.

  • +1 vote

    Tangentially, is there any impact on SDRO if OP wins in court, or even any feedback to them?

    You'd expect since they've wasted everybody's time by issuing, and repeatedly upholding an obviosuly inaccurate fine that this would demand at least some kind of formal action to be taken after the matter is decided in court. It's an horrific waste of the court and a private citizen's resources to have to resolve what essentially boils down a clerical error and a flawed appeals process.

    Surely this wouldn't be totally free of ramifications for the SDRO and the case officers involved if this gets squashed in court. Nobody in our public service should be that untouchable.

    •  

      I'm guessing one offs might not achieve anything, but if there seems to be a systematic flaw in the SDRO's processes, that's where a magistrate may order a review of them.

    • +1 vote

      I'm pretty sure magistrates don't like their time being wasted.
      This is what will happen.
      Op will opt to go to court.
      Prosecutor will look at the evidence the morning of the case.
      Case will be dropped…
      but probably after the OP has taken the day off work and turned up to court.
      court clerk will approach OP and say, you can go home, prosecutor has dropped the case.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +7 votes

    When you win the court case ask the magistrate for costs.

    •  

      That would be quite difficult, unless OP actually gets a lawyer or is a lawyer himself. Otherwise the magistrate can only order costs on travel expense I believe.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +3 votes

    Photo demontrates you moving less than 2m within .4 seconds; case is dismissed. Cause for concern is the car in lane 1 only moves around 4-6m in the same time, its not speeding either. Take it to court. Pay a lawyer and attempt to recoup costs - you dont have to show up for appearance hearing and will likely be dismissed.

    Find out who the police prosecutor will be - they will likely not want to take this to court either.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +3 votes

    Take it to court man, you will win for sure! It's daylight robbery to pay up without putting up a fight when you clearly didnt do anything wrong. Unbelievable.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +2 votes

    Go to the news channel and court mate, we all are with you….. Please ensure you keep us posted unlike people at Whirlpool forum whether they take the advice and run!

    All the best..

    • +8 votes

      No problem, I will posted, updated, and tell the result, whether is go or bad.

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +5 votes

    #IStandWithNeg

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +2 votes

    What a nightmare and what a bunch of monkeys to say that you've used up your one and only review when they're the ones who have clearly stuffed up. There has to be a way to get this sorted out instead of having to go to court.. if not then this is a joke. Either way, please keep us posted as to the outcome.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • -2 votes

    I went to court and fought it.

    I pleaded not guilty.

    Then the chief copper at court talked me into pleading guilty without record or fine and I took that deal and was done with it.

    • +1 vote

      Why would that be offered?

      •  

        So they can say that they win most court cases, so there is no point taking them to court.

    • +3 votes

      That's like saying they know they are fighting a losing battle so they offered you a truce to not lose their face.

      You should've given them a fine.

    • +2 votes

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  •  

    Hi Go to court ive been in this position a few months ago and wrote in twice with photos of proof & they still said pay the fine
    and nearly did but thought no im innocent so took it to court and i won .They are to arrogant & the fine system is run by civilians
    and thats the system that is unjust, good luck friend .

    • +1 vote

      Did you recoup all the 'wasted time' from the court case? I mean come on, taking a day off work, the stress, the preparation, its just the worst.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +6 votes

    Make sure you represent OzBargain in all its glory. Wear an OzBargain tshirt to court. Perhaps some OzB lawyers might take this case up pro bono?

    • +1 vote

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +6 votes

    Wear an ozbargain t-shirt when you have your day in court/with the media.

    Show everyone that us tightarses are not to be trifled with.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  •  

    Do people really think Mike Baird is going to drive thru Fairfield and make policy changes because of a poster on the side of the road? Write to your local MP, people.

  • +3 votes

    Agree 100% this fine is wrong. Here is my one from late last year. Clearly in lane 3. Whoops.
    http://imgur.com/a/M4m6h

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  •  

    I would write to my State Govt. Member and have them take this up for you. It most likely save a day in court and still get you off without using up a valuable "pardon"

    Good Luck!

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +3 votes

    Send them a written letter explaining everything.

    Tell them if they do not remove the fine you will pursue it in court and if you are successful you will ask the court for an indemnity costs order.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +2 votes
    1. Ask to have the decision reviewed on the basis of the obvious error.
    2. Contact your local state member or the responsible state Minister's office explain the circumstances including their obvious mistake and refusal to review their decision.
    3. Go to court and explain everything. You will win for sure.
    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  •  

    The "you've had your review" thing is farcical. Reminds me of the vogons. I had similar where the person reviewing me obviously didn't understand my argument and on clarifying it I was told that I'd had my review and to stuff it up my jacksi (I'm paraphrasing). I pointed out that a review based on incorrect facts was no review at all. This pertinent argument needs incorporating into the law imho. (The response I got: tumbleweeds)

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +1 vote

    Call in sick for work and take the issue to court?

  •  

    I just came here to read the comments

  •  

    Out of curiosity, how did you get the camera photos?
    Cheers

  • +4 votes

    Go to court. Once you will win then file a case against sdro for all hassle and get compensation for that so they learn the lesson

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  •  

    They go for you because they can't build a case against car a. Clear lazy work on their end.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

  • +3 votes

    CSI Skills go!
    73km/hour is 20.27ms/second - the frames are .39 seconds apart.
    That means the car that was going 73km/hour would have moved about 7-8 metres.
    Comparing the two frames, the truck was on the line, and in the second shot maybe 3 metres past it.
    Car 'D' (the one slightly obscured) has maybe moved 4-5 metres.

    However that Mazda in lane one has moved more than the length of it's own car, by maybe 2-3 metres.
    I can't spot what sort of Mazda it is, but given that most are about 4-5 metres long… safe bet is the camera is accurate with it being lane 1.

    Given the position of your back wheel, you probably moved less than half a metre.
    By that similar math, you were probably going 5km/hour.

    Edit: bummer, I opened this right to the second page, I see everyone has already math'd it up. Similar results though. Atleast it means my math wasn't terrible.

    •  

      Good news, they said the penalty notice issued to the incorrect registration.
      We've done it OzBargain community. Thank you everyone for read, voted, commented and consulted. Because of you I did send second review online, and called them a day after just to make sure they received it, and make sure they would actually review it. After 2 days from my call I received email saying penalty sent to wrong registration number.

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