Lets talk about negative votes

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        [Deactivated] on 13/05/2017 - 21:26

        -4

        @lainey13:

        Lol @ nasty. Nawww you mad?

        Yep, you got it buddy! Breaking those rules like a bad arse and you can't do a thing about it.

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    Miss B on 13/05/2017 - 21:41

    People who vote Liberals are still people with feelings, no need to call them names.

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      [Deactivated] on 14/05/2017 - 10:50

      Lol, troll.

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  lonewolf on 12/05/2017 - 13:04

  I personally think theres way too many positive votes and not enough negative votes…Let me explain before i get blasted. I am all for being positive as well as i agree if its a good deal then it should get a positive vote. But I wonder if there are company employees that go around adding exta votes to their own deals and negging users who dont agree with that deal. thats just one theory of course i cant prove it.

  The problem i see these days though is there are soo many deals that get so many positive votes and it really doesnt seem like much of a special price or deal over the norm or even worse is alot of these deals where no-one has actually gotten the item or found the item in stock or anything of the sort which then really makes it like a ghost deal because it really doesnt exist. Also in those deals where people just go willy nilly posting a positive vote without any results then make those deals seem real and worthwhile to genuine customers who go around looking and looking before they finally realise there is no stock. Or it can even sometimes make people believe it is some special price deal due to the sheer amount of positive votes when in actual fact its just maybe the same "special" price it comes back to every couple of weeks etc.

  I also think there is a lot of issues with some retailers or brands etc but its so hard to get a negative vote attached to a deal these days that a lot of people never realise it till they get bitten as well…

  For me the reason why i aimed at these particular points is that the whole point of the site is Bargains, not a slight price drop or 1 item in stock in some obscure suburb. But a genuine bonafide real deal Bargain to be had.

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    Moderatorneil on 12/05/2017 - 13:50

    But I wonder if there are company employees that go around adding exta votes to their own deals and negging users who dont agree with that deal. thats just one theory of course i cant prove it.

    We do audit the votes and catch out companies sockpuppeting or artifically voting on deals. These result in bans in which we had 34 deals removed in March. Obviously we can't catch all of them but we do have a number of systems in place to detect these however if you suspect something please do report the deal. Manually investigating is the best way to catch them out.

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    andy19363 on 12/05/2017 - 14:38

    its so hard to get a negative vote attached to a deal these days that a lot of people never realise it till they get bitten as well…

    Or, there are so many neg votes that the post disappears from view for most users (which also a lot of people don't realise, never see and get bitten)… benefitting nobody

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  TtiGeR on 12/05/2017 - 14:41

  +4

  I think the problem is really that down votes on OzBargain have different meanings to different people.

  I have been thinking that perhaps the deals would show:

  GREEN [Popularity] = Net Score of (Likes - Dislikes)
  RED [ Warnings ] = Similar to current down votes.

  And:

  A "thumb up" button to increase the "Likes" (and the net popularity score will go up).
  A "thumb down" button to increase the "Dislikes" (and the net popularity score will go down). This will not increase the # of warnings.

  Just like people can freely up vote a deal currently, members should be allowed to "dislike" a deal simply because they don't like it. (Well, you can already dislike/down vote any comment in the forum.)

  Then:

  All current down votes should be converted into "Warnings".

  Since you cannot "down vote" a deal without having a comment now, there is no need to have a button to increase "Warnings". Instead, under the comments, there should be a check box saying "I want to warn members about this deal/merchant". When the check box is ticked, the # of warnings will be increased after posting the comment. A drop down could also be provided to choose a reason (e.g. Counterfeit / Stock / Delivery / etc.). Each member can only create one warning message for each deal. Additional comments can be made but won't increase the warning (and those comments won't carry the "Warning" flag so it's easier for members to locate the warning message rather than navigating through all comments made by the "down voters" currently.)

  Finally, members should be allowed to convert a "Like" to "Dislike" (or vice versa) within 60 seconds. So fat fingers can be saved. :)

  ---

  Oh, back to OP's topic, if deals can be freely "disliked", there is nothing wrong that comments can be freely "disliked" too.

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    Scrooge McDuck on 12/05/2017 - 16:55

    +3

    Excellent point!

    Both comments and deals feature paired buttons for "+" and "-". For comments these are for approval and, equal and opposite, disapproval respectively. However for deals they're completely different!

    For deals, "+" is for approval without necessity for a reason or comment and can be accessed from a deals page. "-" on the other hand is only supposed to be used when the deal isn't the cheapest or is defective, or there is a major issue with the retailer and requires the deal to be opened and a comment made.

    The seeming equivalence of "+" and "-" for deals and its inconsistency with that for comments are failings of interface design. If they/we want "+" and "-" for deals then they should be for approval and, equal and opposite, disapproval without the necessity for a reason just as they are for comments (this would cause a shock in the way users vote on deals and would need an adequate reduction in the front page threshold). But the current "-" vote on a deal should be reassigned with a different symbol which accurately conveys its intended meaning. i.e. something like a black mark, bomb, flag or exclamation mark

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      andy19363 on 12/05/2017 - 17:56

      +1

      But the current "-" vote on a deal should be reassigned with a different symbol which accurately conveys its intended meaning. i.e. something like a black mark, bomb, flag or exclamation mark

      Indeed….. resurrect the original function of the neg vote……. Has been mentioned before to no avail…..

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        Moderatorneil on 12/05/2017 - 21:21

        Interesting andy, so you would be OK with the voting system simply if we swapped the red - with another symbol (frowny face, thumbs down etc)?

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        andy19363 on 13/05/2017 - 13:39

        +1

        @neil:

        What it looks like is not relevant…. The whole function of ozbargain is to share information. The neg did once serve a useful purpose which was to alert people…. usually to a better deal or a significant problem with the item or retailer. It doesn't do that anymore… in fact the more issues a deal has, the less likely it will be seen.

        The current voting system is akin to facebook 'likes', particularly pos votes. The majority of pos votes do not add any more useful information about the deal than the original post. The neg has (quite logically), become the 'dislike' as people think it's the opposite of like, which of course it isn't, (nobody reads the guidelines) This will increase as mods do less and less revoking and users can't be bothered. I don't have a problem with a deal's popularity or otherwise…. it's not really of interest. The problem I have is with the automatic actions from negative votes on posters and retailers. These actions encourage the neg to also be used as 'punishment' or revenge, or, more strategically, to damage a reputation or business.

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        Wystri Warrick on 13/05/2017 - 17:03

        @andy19363:

        The neg has (quite logically), become the 'dislike' as people think it's the opposite of like, which of course it isn't,

        true, when I first started using Ozbargain I thought exactly that, luckily though I read the guidelines when I joined.

        I've only down voted once, even then I felt bad for the op.
        Op posted in good faith but I was concerned that some people would exploit it, so I neg the deal and gave my explanation why.

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  [Deactivated] on 12/05/2017 - 14:44

  Just make it like deal voting - you have to comment to explain the negative.

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  Skramit on 12/05/2017 - 16:37

  I don't think negative votes should be wiped out by popular opinion, or make the threshold much higher than it currently is. At the moment I feel like it encourages a bit of a mob mentality towards anyone who negs a deal with a legitimate or non-legitimate reason. In fact it appears to be a bit of a sport with the comments that go along with negging a neg.

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  Hirolol on 12/05/2017 - 17:05

  -2

  just because the deal has a shit discount doesnt mean it deserves a neg.
  you got negged for impropper use of a neg.

  you sound really immature making a thread like this TBH.

  "wahhh JV got upvoted and i got downvoted"
  Please.

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  MessyG on 12/05/2017 - 20:13

  +5

  Dude it's the Internet. Get out into the fresh air for a bit, you'll feel better.

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  DiscoJango on 12/05/2017 - 20:28

  +1

  what?

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  lawesomes on 12/05/2017 - 23:42

  -1

  I feel like downvotes should rep:

  1) It's not cheaper than the product can be purchased on an average day. This doesn't mean the product is bad value (i.e. dont downvote a mac because a windows equivalent is cheaper). For the same product, can it be ordinarily be had at roughly this price or not?

  Example: Product can be had $100-80 generally on the market, deal is posted indicating its 20%. Price was bumped up such that post-discount it is ~90 which is more or less the normal price. I feel like a lot of deals are posted here based on a deals "percentage" off with little regard for whether it really is a good deal. Another example is things like the cashbacks, providing ~$1?. If it wouldn't sway you to purchase, it aint a deal.

  2) It's misleading or you are unlikely to get the product as per the seller's description of timing

  As people have noted here, this is all subjective so I wouldn't take a downvote personally to heart.

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  peterpeterpumpkin on 13/05/2017 - 09:59

  +1

  I don't give downvotes. A downvote without an explanation is basically bullying.

  But I rarely upvote comments as well. I don't like sheep-like behaviour. And upvoting an aggressive response is basically group bullying.

  OzBargain could modernise its voting system but the fact it's an anonymous forum greatly reduces the effectiveness (and removing anonymity has other negative consequences that exist in the real world). And of course you have those people on Facebook that have no shame.

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  psylence on 13/05/2017 - 16:41

  +1

  My experience has been bad when downvoting a deal. I downvoted an electronic deal due to the experience i had with the company previously not sending the items and essentially turned out to be a drop shipping company. Product review about 200 ratings only have them at something like 1.5/5 stars. Whirlpool thread filled with complaints and people going to consumer affairs. Unknown company to most. Anyway i downvoted and commented trying to raise awareness for peoole and in returned i was attacked and verbally assaulted hence why i rarely log in anymore. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/304553

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    nocure on 13/05/2017 - 17:09

    +1

    Warehouse1 has a reasonably good track record here IMO so the community decided that your neg vote was not warranted, but still happy to hear your personal story as you can see by a lot of positive votes on most of your comments.
    PS.Best not to judge a company based on WP forums.

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      psylence on 13/05/2017 - 17:12

      +1

      Thanks, my judgement came from personal experience ordering and then wished I'd had known beforehand which is why i then tried to do the same for others.

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  tranter on 19/06/2017 - 07:45

  +1

  Merged from An Example of How The Voting System Creates a Toxic Culture on OzBargain

  I see this type of situation happen all the time on OzBargain. How does the current voting system particularly regarding the application of negatives votes (on both deals and comments), contribute to building a better community or does it do the opposite?

  How can the system be improved? Just some food for thought.

  Example thread here:
  https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/313552

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    [Deactivated] on 19/06/2017 - 08:11

    +3

    Are you EC's sock puppet?

    Seems like the voting system is pretty fair. The neg votes on the post you linked are legitimate and other people +voted the reason for the neg post.

    Why can't I neg vote this posting?

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      tranter on 19/06/2017 - 08:24

      +1

      Thanks for your comments. I'm not trying support or attack any particular member of OzBargain. The thread is just one example of many that I could have linked to.

      Just looking to see if it's possible to improve the situation?

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        Clear on 19/06/2017 - 08:43

        +3

        It's a legitimate negative vote as it's not the cheapest available. Should we not do that?

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          djones145 on 19/06/2017 - 08:44

          +1

          @Clear: no I want to pay the higher price to the same store so they make more monnnneeeeyyyyy

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          Clear on 19/06/2017 - 08:57

          +1

          @Clear: @djones145: Two people seem to agree with you there.

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    dasher86 on 19/06/2017 - 08:18

    +4

    I think you stumbled on something bubbling in the back of the community…
    most of the time it's not like this.

    i will be first to put up my hand and say there are notorious / infamous people on Oz B.
    try to neg vote of of them and you get vetoed to oblivion.
    Neg vote one of them and it can also start an avalanche.

    All in all don't take negative votes personally.

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      djones145 on 19/06/2017 - 08:45

      +1

      indeed, added negative post to all posters just for fun

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    jimbobaus on 19/06/2017 - 08:51

    -2

    I think the bigger problem is that you may have a genuine reason for a negative vote, which you have to share in order to down vote, then if enough people neg your comment you negative vote gets removed
    A deal may get 10+ Neg Votes but within a day or so it changes to 2 or 3 because enough people who like the deal neg the comments to get them removed.

    I think if you neg a deal, and you comment as to why you neg vote should remain no matter what.

    The amount of times I see NEG's removed cause the reason is "grey imported, no warranty" which I feel is a valid reason to neg a deal. but all it takes is for enough people to neg the grey imported comment and boom the NEG vote is removed.

    OzB is not exactly a positive place to interact at times.
    The Mods can be asshats when you contact them about something, the site overall does not really allow you any recourse if you do not agree with a decision and I suspect many votes don't even get placed cause people just don't want the backlash.

    I read comments on any deal I am looking at, I always show the "hidden" ones cause they tend to be where the real discussions take place.

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      andy19363 on 29/06/2017 - 14:02

      A deal may get 10+ Neg Votes

      So then….. thanks to the automated system, the deal will likely be removed from view of most of the ozbargain community. Therefore no matter what your reason is for negging, the information will never get passed on.

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    djkelly69 on 19/06/2017 - 09:05

    +1

    I think all that link shows is that spackbace and EC have some history and are getting into it with each other.

    The deal negs themselves seem fair.

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      Clear on 19/06/2017 - 09:07

      That's pretty much how it is. Plenty of members around here don't get on well together and it's shown in the comments. Neg is completely valid.

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      tranter on 19/06/2017 - 09:11

      -1

      Ok I didn't know that, thanks. But it is still an example of one of many where the system doesn't promote harmony. I think it mostly the fault of the system, the user to a lesser extent.

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        Clear on 19/06/2017 - 09:13

        Mods don't read every single comment, so the best thing you can do is hit the report button. They've put plenty of people in the penalty box for trolling, fights etc.

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        djkelly69 on 19/06/2017 - 09:40

        +1

        People generally take critism personally, even if it is (in a deal/no deal context) warranted.

        IMO the point of the site is to promote deals, not harmony.

        What are you proposing to replace negs? Just positive votes?

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      tranter on 19/06/2017 - 09:16

      I don't necessarily think the negs on that deal are invalid (even if it's 1 point something % cheaper). It's just an example thread.

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    watty on 19/06/2017 - 09:25

    Why does it even matter - toxicity is and will always be apart of any community where opinions are concerned. I personally use deal neg votes when I genuinely feel like the deal is cheaper elsewhere and/or it's a troll/spam post and I always try to give a suitable explanation as it helps others understand why this deal is bad. Of course, all of this is subjective and conflicting opinions and reasoning will divide people. But at the end of the day, users are random people behind their screens passing on their verdict over insignificant notions that will never directly affect your life. Don't take negs personally, don't value negs highly and appreciate the genuine deals that save to take money from you (lol). I don't think there is a perfect system but for now just learn to lurk more rather than participate until one is comfortable to have their actions be criticised online.

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    spackbace on 19/06/2017 - 10:48

    +6

    Ooh a post/example all about me!

    So to start with, I barely neg vote members, I choose to primarily neg store reps to affect their posting limits. Of course the vote has to have meaning

    The neg on ECs post was pretty simple, it was to highlight the cheaper price elsewhere to avoid would-be purchasers from getting ripped off.

    Unfortunately when it comes to the top posters, their posts have a form of credibility just with the members post count/length of time on here. Members or guests to the site would think that they've done their research so they have an inherent level of trust. It's something we should all be mindful of.

    I gave my reasons for the neg (wouldn't my teachers be proud!) and gave EC the option of changing the deal to the cheapest and I'd revoke it. Unfortunately it seems there's an ulterior motive for keeping the deal up, hence the neg stays to warn others.

    Any subsequent 'me too' votes are outside my control.

    So next time you see a neg post on a deal, look at it objectively and see what it's alerting you to. It could be a bad price, or the store could be dodgy. If it's invalid, report it and mods will check it out.

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      tranter on 19/06/2017 - 10:56

      No it wasn't all about you.

      Thanks for your comments, makes sense.

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    Savas on 19/06/2017 - 11:33

    +4

    Negs are always fair, if not important to tell a mod. People have got to stop taking negs so personally and accept the criticism.

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  dasher86 on 19/06/2017 - 11:25

  I am too quite hesitant in posting a deal - and I've been around for quite a while and you will see my deal post count is not that great.
  It is a good and bad thing to be hesitant about posting a deal because for me it ensures that I am posting what i think is a bargain, what other people might think is a bargain (even though it may be a small subset of users); it also helps me not to post duplicates.
  There are many times in my head that I thought something was a bargain and have not posted it and subsequently someone else posts it.
  So it is quite probably that people are hesitant or do no post deals for a myriad of reasons.
  neg vote me to oblivion and i don't care if it is a legitimate neg vote against the deal.
  what confuses me is that when someone posts a bad deal and is called out by the community for 'cheaper price elsewhere' to only have it 'removed on request of poster'.

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    dasher86 on 19/06/2017 - 11:34

    I will admit i was somewhat trolling on this neg vote but it was actually cheaper at my local store $5.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/306478

    my neg vote was removed but someone negged for the exact same reason and it remained.

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      Moderatorneil on 19/06/2017 - 11:37

      I will admit i was somewhat trolling on this neg vote but it was actually cheaper at my local store $5.

      Your vote was revoked by the community, not by mods.

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        dasher86 on 19/06/2017 - 11:38

        yes i know it was my example was to show that someone directly below it did the same thing as me.

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    Moderatorneil on 19/06/2017 - 11:34

    what confuses me is that when someone posts a bad deal and is called out by the community for 'cheaper price elsewhere' to only have it 'removed on request of poster'.

    We generally grant requests for removal irregardless of reason (for the exception of reps) if it happens within a short time after posting. However, if numerous comments or there is valuable information or it's been on the site for a while then it will remain on the site.

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  hell0 on 21/10/2017 - 12:15

  I spend a lot of time on OzBargain and so naturally during a typical day I can like hundreds of comments, but I still have a limited amount of negative votes I can give, so even if I give 200+ likes I still only get the change to neg 5 comments…

  I propose a ratio-system sort of like this…

  Up to 50 likes = ability to cast 5 negative votes
  Up to 100 likes = ability to cast 10 negative votes
  etc etc

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    payton on 23/10/2017 - 17:55

    +3

    IMO the + votes will get spammed everywhere, negating its purpose.

    Better off proposing a ozbargain 'Pitchfork' membership. $50 a month for double daily neg vote quota, lol

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      hell0 on 23/10/2017 - 18:52

      Yeah, I agree that the + votes might be spammed everywhere…

      I would pay $5 a month for 'Pitchfork' membership, but maybe a double quota that accumulates up for max 30 days of votes.

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  Laziofogna on 09/04/2020 - 14:53

  -5

  I have posted something similar about downvote today and was deleted after 5 seconds, very sensitive mod

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    brendanm on 09/04/2020 - 16:15

    +5

    It was deleted for being a duplicate you twit.

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    [Deactivated] on 09/04/2020 - 16:59

    +1

    You would get more if jv was less active today…

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  Laziofogna on 09/04/2020 - 17:05

  -1

  Is it a way to pour out frustation? I mean you silly buggers are here on a 3 years old topic negging without a reason

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    spackbace on 09/04/2020 - 18:11

    By replying, it brings it back to the top.

    Solid reason for the negs though, you complaining about the mods because they marked your discussion as a duplicate (which it is, hence why we're here).

    I'd argue you're the sensitive one, because so far all you've done is complain about the mod decision and the negs on your comment lol

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      Laziofogna on 09/04/2020 - 19:20

      I did reply after they underlined it was a duplicate and showed the original. The op has been buried for 2.5 years. It is not a complaint, I don’t really care believe me, but if someone collect a million negs and nothing happens anyway what is the point? Ergo is to pour out personal frustations.

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    [Deactivated] on 09/04/2020 - 19:40

    -1

    Sorry but I only negged 5 of your comments today.

    You should try to stay positive and think about all those comments you posted that didn't get negged.

    • 

      Laziofogna on 09/04/2020 - 19:59

      You are right but I repeat myself what is the point to have negs, a ton let’s say, if they don’t really affect anything? I’d understand if after a certain amount you get suspended or something but nothing happens. Don’t know why everyone keeps focusing on my results, it does not matter how many negs we give because they are useless. At least that is what I have understood in these years here, if there is mechanism I have missed I’d be happy to finally be aware of. Happy easter lads. Ps got it now you were arguing before about Hertz, all clear now.

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    Ughhh on 10/04/2020 - 00:12

    There there. No need to get all upset. Would give you some tissues if they weren't so rare right now.

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