My Employer Wants a Medical Certificate for One Day off Work

Windows7forever on 02/07/2017 - 07:07
Last edited 02/07/2017 - 09:33 by 1 other user

I work for a large corporation. This week my boss made it very clear to our team that we must supply a medical certificate for any time off work, even if it is only one day. I suspect that someone in my team might have had "one too many sickies" or was pretending to be sick to get off work, which has made the company clamp down on this.

I am not one to capriciously take a random "sickie" off work when I don't feel like coming in and haven't used any of my sick leave as of yet. I don't condone this "chuck a sickie" mentality and understand the company's intentions to protect itself. However, I feel this policy may come back to bite them in the back side.

When an employee genuinely gets sick and needs a day off work they will now need to spend half a day at the doctor's getting a certificate. Therefore, they are more inclined to ask for two or even three days off work "to make it worthwhile". Knowing how most doctors err on the side of caution and how highly contagious certain infections and flues can be at this time of the year, they will invariably get these extra days off. This can end up costing the company more money and lost hours.

I feel that my old job had the right balance. You were only required to supply a medical certificate if you took more than one consecutive day off work in a week, more than six days per year, or there was a pattern of unusual leave for so-called 'medical reasons'(abusing the system).

What are your thoughts on the one day off medical certificate policy?

Education & Work

Comments

  • BensonP on 02/07/2017 - 07:25
    +33

    Yeah someone is doing a dodgy and milking their sickies.

    We only need certificates if the sick day is after/before a weekend, so people don't take long weekends whenever they want.

    Check your contract/EBA. It will say how many days without a certificate you can take.

    If not, contact Fair Work.

    • holdenmg on 02/07/2017 - 08:53
      +30

      The Fair Work Act, says an employer is entitled to require an absent employee to provide evidence of illness of injury.

      The Act states that it must be ‘evidence that would satisfy a reasonable person’.

      https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/sick-and-carers-leave/paid…

      You can get a Medical (or Carers) Certificate online at:
      https://www.qoctor.com.au/certificates/
      without the need to spend "half a day at a Doctors" etc.

      I'd ask your Employer to reimburse you for the fee to satisfy their requirement for this Certificate.

      • Windows7forever on 02/07/2017 - 09:05
        +5

        Thanks. I didn't know about this.

      • AddNinja on 02/07/2017 - 18:51
        +1

        That's cool - I didn't know that either. I mean a stat dec would do the job if you took the day off but didn't see a doctor.

      • stingy-oz on 02/07/2017 - 20:01
        +1

        There are many pharmacy now can also issue sick notes. I think it cost 10 bucks or so but well worth it if you only looking to get a medical certificate.

        I believed larger corporation normally requires sick notes if they are taking 2 days and above of sick leaves, usually requires by HR. One day for sick notes is a little too much.

        These days there are no more "Sick Leaves" but renamed as "Personal Leave", well at least it's where I've been so far. All employees are allowed to take personal leaves for whatever reasons without the need to explain to anyone. But if an employee is taking longer than 2 days in a row, doctor's note or certificate is required to validate the claim.

        • mattyman on 03/07/2017 - 11:16
          +1

          Cost $30 at Botts Chemist on Albany Hwy (Perth).

      • jhmtaylor on 03/07/2017 - 09:40
        -1

        A medical certificate from a Doctor who has not seen the patient is not "evidence of illness or injury". I would not waste my money

        • Koshatul on 03/07/2017 - 11:21
          +4

          The doctors certificates usually have (well, at least) two options "I examined and diagnosed" and "he/she stated".

          Both are still a medical certificate.

        • TenaciousTom on 03/07/2017 - 16:23
          +1

          Luckily the online doctor does see you then. How about not commenting things you don't know?

      • mungas on 03/07/2017 - 13:04

        I dont think asking an employer to reimburse the certificate is a right way to get over this hurdle..

      • John Dough on 03/07/2017 - 18:56

        Bulk billing = $0 This is $19.95!

        • 811b11e8 on 03/07/2017 - 20:31
          +1

          Not spending half the day getting a doctors appointment priceless!

        • kolorijo on 04/07/2017 - 13:15

          @troyarr: and avoid catching something whilst waiting is also priceless!

        • John Dough on 05/07/2017 - 17:06

          It's Ozbargain dudes, you must be too rich to be on here!
          Half a day at a doctors? You are doing it wrong.

      • shandawgg on 04/07/2017 - 10:10

        So you speak to a doctor through Skype??

        • burkey on 04/07/2017 - 21:34
          +2

          Yup! You give a timeframe, and they call you in that timeframe (i.e. 'between 1pm and 2pm'.
          I've only used it twice, each time the Doctor has been based in Collins Street Melbourne.

      • burkey on 04/07/2017 - 21:33
        +1

        Can vouch for Qocter being awesome - have been legitimately off for cold/flu and was able to use Qoctor.
        The Doctors on there are always very good, they definitely aren't doing it for the 'pull a sickie' crowd.

      • maiuspala on 28/07/2017 - 07:35
        +1

        My employer just said they dont accept my qoctor certificate and wont pay for sick days.
        I dont think they have any right to do so

        • tomsco on 28/07/2017 - 09:15
          +1

          Did they give a reason why?

          If you are entitled to sick leave and have a valid certificate, I do not believe they can legally withhold your sick pay.

        • cupcake on 28/07/2017 - 09:24
          +1

          You need to find another employer who isn't dodgy.

        • maiuspala on 28/07/2017 - 09:38
          +1

          They said he is not a nsw practitioner (tvere is a melbourne address on the certificate)

        • holdenmg on 28/07/2017 - 10:19
          +2

          @maiuspala: I don't see a problem. Call Fair Work Australia on 13 13 94.

        • tomsco on 28/07/2017 - 11:49

          @maiuspala:

          Agree with holdenmg. Apart from the fact that the NES probably don't exclude it, I doubt your contract would have a clause saying you can't go to an online doctor (assuming that's what you did).

    • bitambitious on 05/07/2017 - 09:41
      +1

      Same applies at my work. We only need certificates if the sick day is friday/monday (after or before weekend) so people don't take long weekends.

  • tassieeagle on 02/07/2017 - 07:26
    +14

    What if you can't get a doctor's appointment? From my experience it's next to impossible to get a same day appointment as the surgery is clogged up with oldies getting their weekly checkup.

    • Heracles26 on 02/07/2017 - 08:14
      +15

      A lot of pharmacists are able to write out sick certificates, so much easier

    • Thrift on 02/07/2017 - 08:49
      +3

      If your employer is a stickler for written evidence, download a stat dec form from your appropriate authority's website and have the declaration witnessed by a JP (they are not allowed to charge a fee). There are JP lists or searchable registers for each state, and there are often scheduled JP services available at local libraries or community centres. Probably best you see one after you've completed any mucus dispersion duties.

      JPs are volunteers providing a community service. Some places, like a post office, charge a fee for witnessing signatures, but they are not doing so as a Justice of the Peace.

      Medical certificates or statutory declarations are examples of acceptable forms of evidence. While there are no strict rules on what type of evidence needs to be given, the evidence has to convince a reasonable person that the employee was genuinely entitled to the sick or carer’s leave.
      - https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/sick-and-carers-leave/paid…

      • mskeggs on 02/07/2017 - 09:32
        +3

        Most lawyers and accountants can also witness stat decs, and most businesses have someone with the requisite qualification on staff. If you are taking up the time of work colleagues to comply with this 'policy' it might quickly be reversed.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/07/2017 - 18:36
        +1

        Much easier to go to a Chemist. Pharmacist can witness.

      • 4agte on 04/07/2017 - 09:07

        This is what I would do and have done so before. A stat dec is as good as any doctors certificate for a 1 day absence. I'm not going to take a trip to tbe doctor's when I know why I'm sick and know they can't do anything for me

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2017 - 18:14

      Ain't that the truth. Ive been driving 50km (one way) to see a GP, couldn't get in at the local places when I was sick and needed immediate help.

      Local doctors tell me to go the hospital or get an appointment in 5 plus days.
      Sure shows the GP system is broken in RURAL coastal NSW.

  • Master Bates on 02/07/2017 - 07:36
    +7

    Take 2 days off instead of just 1. If you don't want to pay for the doctors certificate you'll probably have to queue for a day at a bulk billing practice anyway.

    • mskeggs on 02/07/2017 - 09:47
      +29

      I take maybe one or two days a year, but the last one was due to sick family members. shrug

      I can well imagine a circumstance where your spouse breastfeeding a new born could result in circumstances where your presence as the other adult in the family is needed, and taking time away from work is necessary. If the Mum needed to travel or wait extended periods to seek medical attention for an infection in a nipple, then asking her to take her newborn too, when she herself is unwell, and do it alone is a big ask. And you might not have the full story. People are reluctant to discuss issues like PND, which can be serious and life threatening, but have mental illness stigmas.

      But, as I said in the opening, I think it is reasonable to only take days off for reasonably serious issues, so don't take many, so I am sympathetic to the frustration when you see co-workers taking frequent time off. I guess it is important to remember different families have different support networks. If you live round the corner from your retired parents, you are likely to have access to somebody who can help out if little Johnny is crook at school or daycare and needs to be collected. If you don't have that support, it requires one of the parents to leave work, it isn't like you can tell the school to look after your 6yro who has reported ill because you are too busy.

      • airzone on 02/07/2017 - 10:57
        +23

        You mean you're looking past your own experience and circumstances and understand the other families might be in a different situation? That's dangerous thinking there. lol

    • airzone on 02/07/2017 - 10:38
      +16

      AKA carer's leave.

        • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2017 - 09:07
          -2

          I'll be quizzing all these experts about my confidential employment contract that they know so well. Carer's leave technology hadn't even been invented, and don't give me time travel nonsense. If anything it came under compassionate/personal leave, not carer's.

        • ensanguined on 03/07/2017 - 12:54
          +3

          @Frugal Rock: Carer's leave technology…

          What?

        • saintmagician0 on 04/07/2017 - 23:05
          -1

          @ensanguined: I assume he meant 'terminology' and not 'technology'.

          Anyway the guy is just wrong. Carer's leave is a thing. It's named as such in some employment agreements. Although I guess not his…

        • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2017 - 10:03

          @saintmagician0:
          No. Technology was intended to do literals' heads in. It evidently worked. Thanks for your gormless facilitation, though. You would be wrong in thinking carer's leave was around circa 2000 in an employment contract you haven't even seen, hence your use of the word 'some'. It wasn't. Deal with it,

        • saintmagician0 on 05/07/2017 - 22:24

          @Frugal Rock: dude, no one was talking about your contract specifically….

        • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2017 - 22:34

          @saintmagician0:
          What does your ellipsis denote? Given airzone was incorrectly trying to fit a specific situation into a generalisation, yeah, it matters. Cowabunga.

    • mooseymoose on 03/07/2017 - 09:22
      +3

      Have you ever experienced Mastitis? Its (profanity) awful and would definitely require the partner to stay home.

        • ensanguined on 03/07/2017 - 13:01
          +7

          Oh sorry, so only the seriousness of the ailment you experienced is the way that everyone experiences it? Oh ok cool.

        • mooseymoose on 17/07/2017 - 11:02

          I wasn't implying they would need to sit with you. The children would require care while the mother recovers. And the flu is shit, and incapacitates people regularly. I would say they're 'sooks'.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2017 - 14:54
        -1

        Is that what Chuck Norris got on the Thailand-Cambodia border in Missing in Action 2 or 3? If it was 3, then no, I haven't had it.

  • rambutann on 02/07/2017 - 08:25
    +23

    I work somewhere that take the opposite approach.

    Unlimited sick leave so that staff are never left financially burdened if they do have to take time off work when they are sick. They also encourage it if you are even slightly contagious just in case you get someone else sick. I think a medical certificate is only required if you were to take a long time off - but I've never seen one required.

    Do people abuse it? Sometimes.. but never on a major scale (maybe a day here and there). Probably about the same amount as any other workplace from my experience.

    But overall the corporate culture is amazing..

    • ilsan0 on 02/07/2017 - 10:14

      Is this CBA?

      • rambutann on 02/07/2017 - 12:17

        Nope!

        • ilsan0 on 02/07/2017 - 13:00
          +8

          CBA has same policy. Unlimited sickies.

        • loropy9 on 02/07/2017 - 15:19
          +8

          @Elektrikrevamp: well in line with their annual profit…

        • ilsan0 on 03/07/2017 - 09:18
          -1

          @angre:

          You are preaching to the converted.
          I was merely pointing out in the context of the convo

        • maxall on 03/07/2017 - 20:18

          NAB

    • CyberMurning on 02/07/2017 - 10:17
      +5

      Where are you working? Let me in….

      • rambutann on 02/07/2017 - 12:17

        Not willing to disclose but you would never have heard of them.

        • CyberMurning on 02/07/2017 - 13:03
          +6

          Ah the jealousy is accumulating…

    • decr on 03/07/2017 - 18:17
      +2

      My workplace has a similar approach. If you feel sick, don't come in. If you can work from home no sickie required. Most work can be done remotely anyway so that's a bonus. This is actually highly encouraged by managers and their managers, they just don't want sick people coming in. It's better to have someone operating at 50% for a day or two than having 5 people take 2-3 days off thanks to you dragging yourself in infecting everyone else.

      And yes, they actually tell you to go home if you rock up sick.

  • whooah1979 on 02/07/2017 - 10:12
    -5

    It sounds like a great policy. Sickies costs business millions every year which in turn is paid for by consumers.
    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/employers-brace-…

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/australia-day-sick…

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-08/australians-worst-at-t…

    • mskeggs on 02/07/2017 - 10:38
      +11

      Not really any figures in there to be able to tell if it is a real problem or not. The concrete figures from DHS (who another article suggests has very high rates of sick days) seem to conflate all illness days with illegitimate days, and suggest that there will be a 42% increase of sick leave when a public holiday falls on a Thursday. I guess there will be some rorters, but if I was sick on a public holiday Thursday and still wasn't 100% Friday morning, I might humanly set myself a lower bar than if I was ill on a normal Tuesday and was still not 100% on a normal Wednesday morning. This grey area could easily account for an elevated rate of sick leave on an 'island' workday with public holiday and weekend on either side without the leave takers claiming sick leave purely illegitimately.

      The figures for costs also seem to conflate genuine and illegitimate leave, and assume that a sick day means that day's work is not done. Certainly at my job, and I would argue the majority of workplaces, any work missed on a sick day is caught up on my return. Even when I worked in retail, where the work demands are immediate, sick days workload was carried by other workmates, not borne by the business or passed on in raised prices.

      I'd also suggest that if you look around your workplace on any given day, there aren't that many people absent because they are sick, and saying that this rate goes up by less than 1.5 times on the rare occasion when a public holiday falls on a Thursday actually suggests illegitimate sick days are an insignificant problem. If my workplace of 200 employees has 2 people ill on a normal day, and 3 on the day before a long weekend, it is hardly the end of the world.
      Finally, consider if your objection is that an illegitimate sick day ends up costing consumers, it is also consumers and their loved ones who get the direct benefit of the sick day, so maybe it isn't that big a deal?

      • airzone on 02/07/2017 - 11:07
        +3

        In addition I give a lot of office workers laptops and VPN access.. It supports the companies view on flexible working arrangements, but also people who take the day off sick are likely to work at home anyway, albeit at reduced capacity. Which is easily offset by their tenancy to bring work home anyway and otherwise be available outside regular working hours.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2017 - 14:38
          -8

          Did you mean 'tendency', lol?

        • Tee Rex Arms on 02/07/2017 - 15:44
          +2

          @Frugal Rock:
          What do you think mate? If you look at the composition of the post it's obvious they did.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2017 - 18:38
          -6

          @Mike83:
          I think I have a live one here, mate.

    • Diji1 on 02/07/2017 - 11:57
      +5

      Sickies costs business millions every year which in turn is paid for by consumers.

      That's a ridiculous statement.

      It's also in a context of Australians working more hours than almost any other country in the world.

      • CyberMurning on 02/07/2017 - 12:11
        -1

        Agree. Australian might the least in the world in term of working hours.
        The ones working long are Asian Australians.

        • Hardlyworkin on 02/07/2017 - 13:05
          +7

          Rather be working smarter than working longer. It ain't all about appearances for everyone.

        • CyberMurning on 02/07/2017 - 13:06
          +6

          @Hardlyworkin: user name checks out

      • whooah1979 on 02/07/2017 - 15:07

        It's also in a context of Australians working more hours than almost any other country in the world.

        oecd data tells a different story. people living in those countries that aren't an oecd member like sea, latin america and africa work even longer hours.

    • tomsco on 02/07/2017 - 14:25
      +1

      And asking for a med cert will just be paid by tax payers via Medicare.

      • whooah1979 on 02/07/2017 - 15:39
        -1

        And asking for a med cert will just be paid by tax payers via Medicare.

        not all consumers are taxpayers.

        • tomsco on 02/07/2017 - 16:25
          +2

          Is it not better for the consumer of the product to bear the cost rather than a tax payer not party to the transaction?

        • whooah1979 on 02/07/2017 - 16:31

          @tomsco:

          You don't deserve your ozbargain membership. Please hand it back. :)

      • whooah1979 on 02/07/2017 - 15:39

        this is also the reason why the gp co-payment would've been a good policy.

    • syousef on 04/07/2017 - 10:38

      How much does it cost when a sick person comes to work and spreads it around knocking everyone else out as well?

        • syousef on 04/07/2017 - 12:40

          Masks are 100% effective are they? And they're routinely worn in Australian workplaces? Which are of course outfitted so that a person who is sick can open doors, never mind eat and go to the bathroom without infecting common surfaces.

          Did you know that the Spanish Flu epidemic at the end of WWI killed more people than the war had?

  • xoom on 02/07/2017 - 10:41
    +1

    im never asked for a medical certificate when away for one day. thats because im not one to take sick leave unless im contagious. sadly other people at work dont adhere to the rules and chuck sickies because they just have to be that special snowflake who thinks sickies are their given right to use and abuse thus ruining it for everybody else.

  • Hardlyworkin on 02/07/2017 - 11:06
    +1

    Does seem like the new policy may backfire on the employer, even though it's legal (unless you have an EBA that's a says different) It sucks the rest of you have to suffer perhaps because someone there is dodgy.

    I would recommend next time you have a sick day, call your manager, explain the situation of that day and ask to have the sick cert waived… Otherwise a stat dec as noted above.

  • pikapika on 02/07/2017 - 11:37
    +1

    I haven't been asked for certs when I have one day off but it does look bad if you take then on either ends of the week so I've just gone to a pharmacy to collect a 'one day' cert..It's been quick and painless. The only thing was they said if I needed to get another cert for an extra day I wasn't allowed to come back there so I'd have to go to an actual docs practise then.

  • Randxyz123 on 02/07/2017 - 12:59
    +6

    I think it's ridiculous that employers still need medical certificates. I'm a adult and If I'm sick as far as I'm concerned I'm doing everyone a favour by not coming in and spreading it around. Not many other countries have this requirement.

    Sure if one employer chucks a sickie the day before/after a long weekend then they should investigate that but not make it annoying for everyone.

    Luckily my work allows people to work from home. So I normally just work from home. I can still do emails and IM people and talk on the phone. Works well.

    P.S you can get a medical certificate by calling 13 SICK or going to a chemist. There's no need to spend hours in a doctor's office.

    • saintmagician0 on 04/07/2017 - 23:07

      The point of the medical certificate isn't just about whether or not you as an adult is capable of determining whether or not you are sick. It's also about whether or not you are an adult is capable of lying about being sick…

      • Randxyz123 on 04/07/2017 - 23:47

        It really isn't. You could walk into a gp's office and say you have a blocked nose and don't feel 100%. They'll probably give you one.

        Medical certificates are old fashioned. People who lie will be caught and won't have a job for long.

  • MessyG on 02/07/2017 - 13:44

    Check your contract, it may not be a requirement at all, just your manager being precious.

  • devnull73 on 02/07/2017 - 14:24
    +6

    I just refuse to give certificates on any basis.

    When questioned as to why I refuse, I gave your exact reasoning, plus that I simply do not believe GPs should waste their time when someone simply has a cold. When they pushed and said "well, it's company policy" I just said that I am in violation of the policy, and would continue to be forever, and they should take whatever steps are deemed necessary.

    I havent heard a thing since.

    • AddNinja on 02/07/2017 - 18:58
      +1

      Yeah - I've never provided them and when asked, I said I didn't go the doctor. It has never been a problem. I think the policy is only actually there for people who are slackers. If you take 1-2 days a year, hopefully the company has someone with brains enough to not let it be a problem.

  • garetz on 02/07/2017 - 14:51
    +4

    It can work the other way as well, where you never take sick leave, and over time you end up destroying your health. If you think you need time off, and there are many reasons, mental illness, stress, actually being sick. You need to look after yourself, corporate interest will not be to your benefit.

  • shaybisc on 02/07/2017 - 17:17
    -3

    What kind of doctor has same day bookings? None that I have ever been a patient of. Does Edelsten still run those walk in 24/7 practices?

    • xoom on 02/07/2017 - 17:39

      there are walk in gp you can go to. no booking necessary though you could book also. depends in the area though.

      • bobbified on 03/07/2017 - 20:05

        Try living in the cbd - you'd be lucky to even get an appointment the next day. And that'll leave you about $50 out of pocket too!

        • mooboy on 04/07/2017 - 10:14

          I live in CBD, have a bulk billing doctor and can often get same day appointments. Unfortunately, my doctor is nearly retired and isn't taking new patients.

        • bobbified on 04/07/2017 - 10:46

          @mooboy:

          isn't taking new patients

          That's the excuse I get a lot when I try to make appointments. I didn't grow up in this city so my family doctor is elsewhere.

          I don't often visit the doctor, but each time I have, I had to travel quite a distance outside the CBD to get a same day appointment. The places I end up at seem to be where there's lots of junkies because the office has signs plastered on their walls saying "No Xanax prescriptions", "blah blah blah before urine tests", etc. The doctors in those places seem to just care about churning through high volumes of patients rather than taking their time to do a proper diagnosis.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2017 - 18:04

    Why is that your concern if people will end up with extra days off? That's your employers problem not yours. They are entitled to it, just got to do oit

  • infinite on 02/07/2017 - 19:09
    +1

    Can't speak for anyone else, but every company I've ever worked for has always needed a medical cert for any day missed from work via sick leave.

  • ironsword on 02/07/2017 - 20:01
    +1

    In my experience it has been as follows:

    No medical certificate required
    - 2 single sick days within a 12 month period

    Medical certificate required
    - A third single sick day or
    - 2 or more consecutive sick days

    But it depends on your employment contract. Otherwise Fairwork clearly states that:

    Employers can ask an employee to give evidence to confirm why they have been away from work at any time. This includes even if an employee has only been off sick for 1 day.

  • xoom on 02/07/2017 - 20:53

    for those missing the point why people are against chucking sickie. what happen is these people would use up their sick leave when they are not actully sick and then proceed to go to work when they are actually sick because they ran out of sick leave. in some cases infecting their colleagues.

    anyone who thinks they are sticking it to the man by chucking sickies are only screwing their fellow colleagues.

    • cameldownunder on 03/07/2017 - 11:35

      That's a good way of getting everyone sick. My boss came in Sick, for over 3 days, then it got my cubicle co worker, and then me.
      I should have stayed home for 2 days, but that would have required a doc's certificate.
      So I went in sick, drank tea, and took lemzip, and was sneezing and coughing the whole time.
      productivity = 0 and another 3 colleagues got sick after me.

      • frewer on 03/07/2017 - 16:37

        Eucalyptus oil on steamy water does the trick for common cold too. Also always keep your feet warm

        • cameldownunder on 04/07/2017 - 15:18
          +1

          Oranges "puntured" with Dried cloves, keeps other people's cold away. ( And smells nice - bit like Mulled wine)

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