**Beware** PayPal No Longer Offer Gumtree Buyer Protection

kokoboko on 10/09/2017 - 10:17
Last edited 10/09/2017 - 10:46 by 1 other user

I purchased an iPhone in Gumtree I was told that this is not icloud locked but unfortunately it is locked. I didn't meet the seller in person and I paid the item using Paypal. I thought that Gumtree and Paypal offers Buyers protection because its one of the preferred option of payment and buying the item online would be safe.

When I found out that this iPhone is iCloud locked I escalated this to Paypal and Gumtree but I was told that there is no longer a Buyer protection offered by Paypal this took effect July 2017. The seller no longer wants to communicate with me and the product dispute I raised with Paypal was automatically closed in his favour.

This the link given to me:

Details:

Gumtree is a local classifieds website and ads aren’t reviewed before they go live on the site. Gumtree doesn't offer any sort of buyer protection / payment programs.

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Comments

  • Kangal on 10/09/2017 - 10:26
    +11

    Wow…. that's a dick move.
    Can you call PayPal up and speak to a representative over the phone?
    Tell them that you are pursuing legal action, will take matters to court, so you require the full details of the attorney.

    • kokoboko on 10/09/2017 - 10:37

      I did talked to Paypal but they simply didn't care because they no longer offer Gumtree buyer protection. I can only imagine the number os scammers in gumtree will increase which will ask Paypal payment because they can get away with it.

      • Kangal on 10/09/2017 - 10:53

        Call them up, and say it has been reported to the police.
        And that you now require the full details of that PayPal holder (their name, address, phone number, bank details, etc etc).

        See if they'll budge.
        Perhaps get a Police Incident Number before hand. I fear police will treat this as a Civil matter, rather than a Criminal matter, leaving you to pursue it through a small claims court.

        • whooah1979 on 10/09/2017 - 11:46
          +9

          And that you now require the full details of that PayPal holder (their name, address, phone number, bank details, etc etc).

          Paypal is subject to the privacy act. PayPal cannot legally give op this information.

        • Kangal on 10/09/2017 - 11:48

          @whooah1979:
          True.
          They will insist on a police officer, or maybe a court-appointed warrant.

          Their Privacy Policy cannot guard against the Law though.

        • vinni9284 on 10/09/2017 - 14:05
          +5

          @Mike83:

          That depends on point of view.

          If the phone is iCloud locked then the owner has locked it due to being stolen or misplaced, hence it is a Police matter if the owner reports this to the Police as stolen.

          Stealing is a Criminal Offence therefore a Police matter.

      • MrBear on 11/09/2017 - 12:31

        It is a dick move considering Ebay owns Gumtree and PayPal.

    • whooah1979 on 10/09/2017 - 11:42
      +15

      that's a dick move.

      By the seller, not PayPal.

      I didn't meet the seller in person and I paid the item using Paypal.

      It sounds like the this transaction was paid for online and the item shipped. Gumtree and PayPal was never designed for this. It has always been ebay + PayPal + shipping, or gumtree + collect + cash.

  • citygal on 10/09/2017 - 10:31
    +17

    Never buy high-value or high risk things on Gumtree (e.g. phones, laptops) via Paypal - particularly via delivery. That's rule 1. Always meet in person and check the items first. Too many scams on Gumtree

    • kokoboko on 10/09/2017 - 10:41

      lesson learned. Don't trust Gumtree purchase via Paypal.

      • citygal on 10/09/2017 - 11:01

        Indeed, try to avoid buying high risk item on gumtree. Even if you check in person and everything seems fine, the seller can then report as lost and stolen and claim insurance - insurance company will then block the phone.

        Ozbargain has so many great offers on phone and laptops and stuff - try to buy from a trust worthy shop like JB Hifi when there's promotion. Less risk and have peace in mind for warranty too.

      • CLoSeR on 10/09/2017 - 15:12

        Gumtree is like the old trading post, it's for face to face transactions.

        • garetz on 10/09/2017 - 16:36
          +8

          I was a naive kid when i used the trading post, and never got ripped off once, those were the days.

        • altomic on 10/09/2017 - 23:45
          +8

          Jousting sticks!?

  • smashed on 10/09/2017 - 10:33
    +3

    You can definitely try arguing with Gumtree given that they still advertise it to be covered..

    help.gumtree.com/articles/General_Information/Using-Paypal-to-buy-on-Gumtree

    • kokoboko on 10/09/2017 - 10:38

      I also gave that link to the person I talked to. She told me that that policy is only for Gumtree UK. :(

    • whooah1979 on 10/09/2017 - 12:37

      You can definitely try arguing with Gumtree given that they still advertise it to be covered..

      Arguing with gumtree is futile. They cannot be held liable for what seller did. Neither can they compensate op for using PayPal as payment processor.

  • tsunamisurfer on 10/09/2017 - 10:56
    +26

    The #1 rule of Gumtree is cash and pick up.
    The #2 rule of Gumtree is cash and pick up.
    The #3 rule of Gumtree is cash and pick up.

    • airal3rt on 10/09/2017 - 11:30
      +1

      So when you get scammed you go back to their house with bikies?

      • Aniseed Steed on 10/09/2017 - 12:18
        +9

        Check the goods before you pay,
        If they're no good, walk away.

        No scam detected,
        No bikies needed.

    • EnALup on 11/09/2017 - 21:35

      Haha. This reminds me of an old topic where buyers ran off with the phone when meeting in person. Nothing is safe if you are not careful enough…

    • Hirolol on 11/09/2017 - 21:48

      i feel like rule #3 should be to follow rule 1 and 2 lol

    • AustriaBargain on 11/09/2017 - 23:15
      +2

      Rule number 1 is actually show up with a trailer ready to haul the item but with only 2/3rds of the asking price with no warning and claim that's all you have on you, in my experience anyway. I made one guy empty his ashtray of coins for an old fridge I was selling. I put "price not negotiable" in the description because I price my stuff based on what I know people will pay for it but there's always professional time wasters.

      • tomsco on 12/09/2017 - 09:11

        Haha, I'm stubborn enough that I will send them away.

        On a flip side, I entered into discussion with some lady who needed some furniture gone. Said I'd buy her desk. At this point she only gave me a 1 hour window to come pick it up (note: not a practical time for me to come). I said I'll pass, but thanks anyway. She came back after that being a lot more flexible.

  • marcooos on 10/09/2017 - 10:58
    +1

    God I hate Paypal, hope you get it sorted out.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2017 - 11:30
    +2

    dumb move

    • Stopback on 26/02/2018 - 14:34

      selll the iphone back on gumtree and get your money back

  • Whomastadon on 10/09/2017 - 11:34
    +5

    You used gumtree incorrectly. It's not harvey norman, theres no warranty. Youyre supposed to inspect the item before buying and pickup personally / pay cash.

    Common Sense

    Paypal probably got sick of people using gumtree incorrectly and said " F___ it, let them learnt he hard way "

    • kokoboko on 10/09/2017 - 11:44
      +3

      Paypal take 2.6% fee to for Buyer/Seller Protection for items purchased online. But they don't like to honour it.

      https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/paypal-buyer-protectio…

      The money I lost is not a big deal for me, I just want to inform other people about my Gumtree and Paypal experience.

      • Whomastadon on 10/09/2017 - 12:14
        +4

        Most people know gumtree is rife with scams and to only use cash and inspect items in person before buying.

      • AustriaBargain on 11/09/2017 - 23:17
        +1

        If PayPal refunded everyone simple enough to get ripped off, then they would be losing money on Gumtree instead of making money.

        • berry580 on 12/09/2017 - 06:36

          PayPal can charge the party they refunded from.

  • colbus123 on 10/09/2017 - 11:52
    +3

    File a credit card chargeback!! Don't let the scammer win

    • Member 0230 on 11/09/2017 - 10:25
      +1

      I'd genuinely love to know if this a real option that will work.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2017 - 23:37
        +1

        You then screw over PayPal who will freeze your funds and close your account.

        You should prepare a separate account with separate card etc.

        • berry580 on 12/09/2017 - 06:39

          Can PayPal close subsequent accounts on your own name? Given they'd likely to already have your personal details, might be difficult to just use another credit card to open a new account.

          Above is more so a scenario, rather than a statement of fact.

        • colbus123 on 12/09/2017 - 22:08

          @Michegianni: Paypal will not close your account if you do a chargeback. I had a problem with a transaction recently in which paypal did not decide in my favour in a case. I then opened a dispute with my credit card company who sided in my favour. I still today use the Paypal account.

        • berry580 on 19/09/2017 - 06:49

          @colbus123: how long ago is that?

  • Ughhh on 10/09/2017 - 12:02
    +1

    I'm pretty sure there was never paypal buyer protection on gumtree. While it's available, gumtree is all about cash on pickup.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2017 - 12:02
    +1

    Do they have anything else for sale that u will go pick up to get their address. Block ur number 1st n start making life difficult.

  • minniethemoocher on 10/09/2017 - 12:45
    +6

    Can you do a credit card chargeback?

  • nxllson on 10/09/2017 - 13:29

    What model iPhone is this?

  • myusername on 10/09/2017 - 13:33
    +2

    gumtree = scumtree

    • whooah1979 on 10/09/2017 - 14:48
      +1

      gumtree = scumtree

      How so? Gumtree didn't do this to op.

      • tomsco on 10/09/2017 - 20:39
        +1

        Full of scum and villainy

  • vinni9284 on 10/09/2017 - 13:50
    +3

    Did you ask the seller for the phone IMEI number and do a check on AMTA website?

    http://www.lost.amta.org.au/IMEI

    I had a similar scenario on Gumtree where the seller refused to give me the IMEI and talked about some rubbish saying that it was unlocked … etc

    That was enough for me to move on.

    • Kangal on 10/09/2017 - 15:35

      Unfortunately it isn't enough.
      You can have an unlocked phone IMEI, but the iPhone-part will be locked out to an iCloud account.
      The only* way you can have it unlocked is to have whomever signed in/locked it, to remove the device from their iCloud account.
      Its easiest done in person, but I think you can do it through iTunes as well.

      There was a website which you can check, so it made iPhone's much more valuable than Android devices because it acted as a theft deterrent.
      Apple has since pulled that website and feature down.
      You can no longer check to see if a device is iCloud locked unless you observe it in-person.

      *yes, there are ways, and no I'm not going to tell you

  • shapers on 10/09/2017 - 15:27
    +5

    Literally hundreds of these kinds of posts about gumtree, not sure why people dont learn about the risks of gumtree and not using cash on pickup

    • kokoboko on 10/09/2017 - 16:00
      +1

      Gumtree and Paypal used to offer buyer protection. They only changed their policy july this year.

      • Scab on 10/09/2017 - 16:38
        +2

        It was changed well before that.

  • thatonethere on 10/09/2017 - 17:03
    +1

    Gumtree shouldn't really offer Paypal at all - it's totally counter to how Gumtree works.

    I notice Gumtree have these kind of vague statements - http://help.gumtree.com/articles/General_Information/Using-P… - I'm guessing the introduction of Paypal is probably some kickback deal as if they wanted to do irrevocable transfers they should use something like Western Union or Bitcoin.

    • Scab on 10/09/2017 - 17:37

      GumTree is owned by eBay, that's why they promote PayPal.

      • thatonethere on 10/09/2017 - 18:03

        But ebay and paypal split a while ago. So hence must be a kickback deal to Gumtree from Paypal.

        • Scab on 10/09/2017 - 18:21

          They were promoting PayPal long before the split.

          And it's nothing to do with kickbacks, why would they want to promote competitors?

          eBay on their own website don't promote any company except for PayPal.

  • furys12 on 11/09/2017 - 07:47
    +1

    Man that's a bit rich from Gumtree/PayPal, I get it, there's no warranties on gumtree but along with their recent site redesign they've been doing a massive push to get people to use PayPal promoting its ability to be used irl too, one of PayPal's mantras is 'safer'… Except here apparently

  • luckylast on 11/09/2017 - 09:22

    I learned a lesson two years ago aldo. Trying to buy a phone from QLd, I was in NSw, then paid money from bank, the seller kept told he is busy and cannot go post office, then disappeared, calls bank useless…

  • soangry on 11/09/2017 - 10:13

    I you used credit card linked to PayPal for payment, maybe you can try doing a chargeback?

  • dlakers3peat on 11/09/2017 - 22:45

    I have successfully sold a $3000 watch on gumtree and amongst many other things. I also bought a $1000 bike and all transactions were trouble free. i do agree though you have to be extra careful when dealing with people from gumtree.

  • msmhw on 11/09/2017 - 23:37

    that's misleading, I think I saw their ads on the streets about PayPal protection. You shouldn't let it go OP! at least apply for a chargeback.

  • jonathonsunshine on 12/09/2017 - 00:24
    +1

    This will be good for selling stuff though, all the horror stories about ppl buying stuff and saying item not received and getting a refund and free item…

  • MDU on 12/09/2017 - 00:33

    paypal only protect paypal that's all anyone needs to know about paypal.

    sorry to hear about being lied to by the seller no fun hey..

  • Tuttorix on 12/09/2017 - 01:12

    I believe there's a key piece of information missing from this, did you receive an invoice sent to your PayPal which you then paid, or did you go through the method of sending money directly with a description of the transaction?

    • Aceboy884 on 12/09/2017 - 03:52

      Yep

      If you sent direct

      It's considered a personal payment and will not be covered under any circumstances

      It's the same as doing a direct transfer, implying you are authorizing a person payment to another individual

      At least you got you a "locked" iPhone

  • spal on 12/09/2017 - 04:49

    Ok, so what is your option now. I understand if you take it to apple they may be able to provide a replacement phone. I read it somewhere when my daughter's phone was stolen that apple had some sort of replacement policy which would mean that the stolen phone was not even being switched on by Apple and was being replaced. Not a good practice, but might work in your case.
    Also, did you use a credit to pay via PayPal? If so, check if you have any fraud protection. Not sure if such a thing exists, but no harm in asking.

  • misterpotatomato on 12/09/2017 - 05:17
    -1

    Speaking from experience, PayPal buyer protection is useless even on eBay.

    Do a credit card chargeback. Your bank will review these on a case by case basis. If they reverse your transaction, PayPal might close your account. That said, PayPal is a toilet anyway and I strongly advise against using it. Their buyer protection program, like I said, doesn't work.

    • berry580 on 12/09/2017 - 06:46
      +2

      From experience, Paypal buyer protection is too good, it's being taken advantage of by the buyers.

      • Nicko11 on 12/09/2017 - 08:35

        so true…Buyer thinks they can do anything they want. I had one guy asking me to cancel his order once I let him know I have just send the item. Paypal asked me to refund to avoid trouble, they seems to be bit fair and friendly in dealing but its buyer favoritism . The buyer kept on harassing me with emails…Luckily I got the item back in the post after 4 months..(Thanks to AusPost)

      • misterpotatomato on 12/09/2017 - 10:26

        I bought two phones that turned out to be counterfeit. You can't post counterfeit items back and PayPals own policy says that in the case of getting a counterfeit device you have to destroy it and provide evidence of that.

        It took literally months to get PayPal to come to the party and they only refunded me after I escalated it to their dispute people. But they wasted literally hours of my time in telling me that certain forms were required, and then changing their mind for what forms were required.

        I find that people who normally think that PayPal buyer protection is great have never had to use it.

  • movieman on 12/09/2017 - 07:08

    Credit card chargeback.

    Contact your bank, request the form, send through all screenshots of the as, etc, and let them deal with it.

  • PAOK11 on 12/09/2017 - 08:29
    -1

    Hrmmmmm people like you should never use paypal when buying from gumtree (shake head) same people a month earlier paypal has changed their policy to cover gumtree

  • Jalif on 12/09/2017 - 08:44
    +1

    PayPal has never offered buyer protection in Australia.

    Never.

    Gumtree is strictly caveat emptor.

  • idonotknowwhy on 12/09/2017 - 08:49

    Seems like nobody has said this yet:
    Credit card chargeback.
    You can provide them with printed out transcripts of all interactions with the seller and PayPal.
    See the police first and get a case number (even if they it's a civil matter)
    Contact Gumtree live chat support. See if you can get them to agree it's a scam (even though they won't help)
    Provide all this to your bank/cc provider.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2017 - 18:40

    Must say that in the old days ,
    the Trading Post paper was a great place to pick up things for less than a third of the cost of new ,
    while still being in good nic
    As long as you weren't shopping for a car it was pretty honest

    Gumtree is your generation so
    What has become of you guys

    Urbunification of Australia

    • Stopback on 26/02/2018 - 14:35

      facebook marketplace is better

      • tomsco on 26/02/2018 - 20:59

        Debatable.

  • randomusername2017 on 23/09/2017 - 14:18

    edited ……………

  • katz on 25/02/2018 - 22:37

    Simple fix for this moving forward.

    Always pay with your credit card throug Paypal. That way if Paypal dont cover you , raise a credit card charge back. That pulls the money right out of Paypal and back to you within a couple of days.

  • demiurge on 26/02/2018 - 15:59

    LOL you want protection from gumtree? Gumtree is strictly for face to face transactions.

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