Asking for a friend.
A friend works somewhere where her boss son started flirting and sexually harassed her (verbally, yet), he has been texting her and trying convince her to give out her address etc.
She has stopped talking to her but hes hasn't stopped, he has a wife himself, she doesn't want to tell his wife or anyone because she scares to lose her job!
Thoughts?
Remember, HR is there to work for the good of the company, not the employee. Unless they think it could result in legal action against the company, they aren't interested in employee welfare. Sad but true.
TL,DR - HR is not your friend.
True, but if you notify them and document it correctly, if you have to quit or get shafted, you have a recourse for "hostile work environment" or "harassment", etc.
A relative had a similar situation where she was bullied by her manager at work. My relative complained to HR, which just hand balled the problem back to the abuser's boss. The abuser and her boss were on good terms and the issue was hand balled… back to HR. HR did organise a couple of meetings between all parties that went nowhere.
Eventually my relative quit the workplace to avoid the hostile environment. The abuser worked with HR to cover all bases and prevent any legal challenges in the future by issuing warning letters to my relative, citing often very trivial work performance issues. This makes any future legal challenges much more difficult if a paper trail can be built to divert attention from the abuser onto the victim.
HR works for HR first, and for the good of the company second. If someone's complaining it's much easier, cheaper, and faster to get rid of the victim than the abuser. Only if multiple people speak up, or the abuser has a record of being a serial pest, can anything be done. But by then it's too late for the string of victims forced from the workplace.
If you're a casual employee you're practically screwed when abused. The manager will eventually reduce your shifts to one day per month, effectively forcing you out of the company without actually sacking you. This too happened to my relative. It's completely legal too.
tip off to "a current affair" should do it. specially in today's climate
Trouble with that idea is that it is always the family of the perpetuator that would suffer.
Arrggghhhhh Nooooooooo dont go to HR they are not your friend
By the looks of it, the company doesn't even have HR.
And, The dad will side his son to bury this shit and he knows his son well enough, hence she'll be let go.
There's no way out of this, everything will be ugly once unfolds.
Most likely to cost her job no matter how this plays out.
Either quit, Or get a bikies ! as boyfriend to pick her up everyday.
Parents are constantly having to pull their kids into line. It's part of being a parent. There is no guarantee he will side with the son at all.
Weird, my comment got neg votes. I guess this is ozbargain where completely reasonable comments get downvoted by the less intelligent folk in the community. Maybe people think things change when kids becomes adults but if I had a son stuffing up my business to cheat on his wife I would be livid. Highly likely he wouldn't be working there again
And as if to prove my point 1 of the less intelligent members downvoted me again, love it :)
@MikeKulls: well if you read the comments you'd know he doesn't work there and it isn't really a work issue (I didn't neg you)
@Quantumcat: i did see that after. it's a long thread and that info is not in the original post. It is happening in the workplace though
Just read below, son is not even an employee. The dad will get him in line real quick if he has the right info. The important thing is to provide solid evidence. Sounds like she has evidence in texts which is good.
Write everything down. Names, dates, times, everything. Raise through internal policies. If she feels like she has no option but to quit or that doesn't stop it, speak to the Fair Work Commission/lawyer up.
^do this.
People shouldn't get away with this kind of behaviour.
Even if the boss is his father you should let him know. If she gets fired after telling the boss then she can go to fair work and the business will get in trouble.
Agree with this. Document everything he says and does, store the text messages and go to the boss with all the evidence. Tell him she likes her job and does not want to make trouble but that if this doesn't stop, or he makes her life difficult, that she will go the Fair Work Commission and get this sorted. The Boss is likely to back down and pull the son in line. If she just walks away then he will just do this to the next employee. In the current climate the Fair Work Commission will definetly be interested in this. The Boss may not be aware of this and may be as appalled as she is on the son's behaviour.
Just need to collect a sufficient amount of evidence. The text messages are a good start. Make sure any compliant is in writing (email with cc to non work account) so that it can be presented in court. Even covert recording whilst it may not be legal could still be helpful.
I agree, collect sufficient evidence, befor mentioning it to boss. Possibly consult with other management besides the boss (if there is another management person besides the father) .
But definitely, get evidence, first, that way if she is fired, she can get compensation and/or her job back.
Covert recording is legal in Victoria as long as the person recording it is a party of the conversation and it is not played to a third party. You don’t even require permission to record.
defs record everything. a firmly (but not aggressive) worded text back asking him to stop might not go astray "Hi Harvey, as previously discussed these messages are making me uncomfortable and i'm asking you to please refrain from texting me on non-work related matters in the future"
Yes, but unfortunately polite doesn't always work, especially with certain types. "Harvey, I am not interested. Stop sending me any messages."
@JediJan:
Is same same but different
Point being to have a record of formally asking individual to cease the messages. Can drop the “please” but point is to be clear, firm and not agressive or threatening
@original15:
Agree, but really needs to be very direct and fewer words the better. Hence drop the "Hi" and "please." What I wrote is firm and direct and not threatening at all. Ask any solicitor. Cannot be misconstrued as joking or teasing either. It is unfortunate to have to respond like that but (from experience) it is the only way forward. Then if he ignores that; come what may!
Exactly what i told her too, she wanted to keep secret and not tell anyone.
I encouraged her to go to fair work and take action,i will link her this topic so she sees you guys thinking the same.
it is not her fault she is only young lady at her workplace, apparently. this is unacceptable.
I'd only go to Fair Work if she gets fired - although it has made her workplace awkward, it reality she still has her job.
Is there no local Union rep available to offer advice?
Take action. No question. This is predatory behaviour and completely not acceptable. Even worse that it's the boss' son.
I once worked at a place where this happened and it was ugly.
This this this. Fair Work want to know about these situations as they CAN actually help. All the advice under here has been good, she should ask him to stop - polite or not it doesn't matter. As mentioned, document everything. She can just ring Fair Work and they can advise, they wont make a mandatory report or anything like that. These situations can escalate very quickly and badly and Fair Work can help.
I also think she should start looking for another job. I know that's not the most feminist of options but she sounds incredibly vulnerable given that this is a family operation - she should fight, but not alone, she needs an advocate and she needs to prioritise her safety first. Keep in mind with backpackers, reports of sexual assault have been made via embassies after the backpacker has returned home and Fair Work have still gone after them. She can also make a report to Fair Work and they will keep an eye on the business regardless so they can slowly build a case over time. If you have any specific questions you can message me privately, one of my friends works at Fair Work so I can ask them for you.
Fair Work
the accusee doesn't work at the same company.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/354055#comment-5499553
I still think it's worth calling them for advice. It's still happening via a workplace. From what I can tell the bosses son is involved which has put her in a situation where there's an imbalance of power. I do wish the OP would be a little bit clearer, but even with that new information, the whole context of the post is that it's happening via a workplace. Unfortunately there's a lot of guys out there who seem to have received this strange 'dating' advice of not to accept no for an answer and you can wear women down eventually so it's not likely to stop any time soon.
Also look for another job. Start looking straight away.
Agree with above she has no other option but to quit.
The dad will most likely do anything to cover up so his daughter-in-law doesn't find out and potentially save his son marriage.
The moment she speaks up, she will be let go.
Even if she reports, lawyer up and wins, she would be crazy to still want to work there with the dad as her boss.
Feel very sorry for your friend and hope her next job is a lot better.
She should not quit, she should fight this. As has been shown by the #metoo movement if someone stands up then other victims come out of the woodwork. I doubt the father would like this being handled at an official level and his most likely reaction would be to pull the son in line.
reach out to Emma Watson, she'll know what to do…
started flirting and sexually harassed her (verbally, yet)
Flirting and sexual harassment are two different things, but there's a fine line between the two.
I think the definition of "sexual harassment" has become so broad that there are people who would cry sexual harassment from a touch on the shoulder from someone who they didn't like.
Has your friend ever told him that she's uncomfortable and told him to back off? I think it's just reasonable to at least let the person know that they're causing some form of discomfort before they get accused of sexual harassment. And sometimes, raising it as an issue can make the other person realise that they're making others feel unfomrtable.
You don't touch someone who hasn't given you permission and, if you accidently touch someone, you indicate it was an accident and you apologise immediately. Are you telling me that guys are clueless as to what is the barrier between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a workplace? I always thought the videos were common sense, but apparently not so much. Have a look at the OP said in the post. Are you telling me this guy is misunderstanding the situation or is it more likely he just doesn't care because he is the bosses son and expects to get away with it? Do you really think she is his first victim? Maybe guys need to take things slowly and ask if a woman is interested in them, then back off if she seems equivocal. I'm as Bolshie as it gets but even I have had trouble communicating to guys I'm not interested, generally I freeze and murmer excuses particularly if I feel threatened as I don't want to escalate the situation. She is vulnerable at this time so she needs to put herself in as strong a position as possible before seeing the boss.
Are you telling me that guys are clueless as to what is the barrier between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a workplace?
We have no idea what their working relationship was like before. It sounds like very small office and people generally get along quite well in those environments otherwise they wouldn't last very long.
They could've been flirting together one day and then the friend decides that she doesn't want to flirt anymore the next, but he hasnt picked up on these signals yet.
I've seen girls enjoying the attention at the start and I would almost even say that some deliberately lead guys on. I'm not saying that OP's friend is that type of person.
Im saying we shouldn't automatically assume the guy is in the wrong. Guys always cop the blame and often never get the opportunity to be heard. We need to keep an open mind and hear both sides of the story before casting judgement.
Fair Work or not… In a small office, even if Fair Work agrees that OP's friend wins, it's all good in theory, but who in their right mind would still want to go back to that job?
The smartest thing for OP to do if she is not cpmfortable is to start looking for another job and get out of this as soon as possible.
She doesn't have to stay in the job, she might get a large payout to move on with. However, you are also assuming that the Boss is as venal as the son here, not all men are onboard with protecting harrassers. He may not be aware of what his son is doing and might be appalled. The son may, easily, be the one that gets the boot. The sad part is this moron may then send her even more threatening emails in revenge. I find the comment of "women leading them on" to be hilarious. It is like you guys have no control over your actions. Women can change their minds as to whether they want to flirt with someone and when they want to stop. She may have become uncomfortable by where this was leading and has backed off; she has a right to do that. My suggestion is men don't escalate the flirting, follow her lead and if she backs off you back off.
I find it hilarious that "guys don't get to be heard". Have a good look at the world, you may have noticed that positions of authority are awash with men. Why do you think that the issue of sexual harrassment is still an issue in 2017. When I started work in 1980s the guys still had pictures of naked ladies on their desks and this was an IT department, not a garage. Change is happenning, but it is happening slowly.
I find the comment of "women leading them on" to be hilarious.
Of course, because women are cannot be wrong and they are never to blame. Women have never used their looks and sexuality in the office. That is totally laughable! I can tell you that it happens more than you think!
There is a lot of sexual harassment of guys in the office too - but guy's just let it go and rarely make a big fuss out of it.
My suggestion is men don't escalate the flirting, follow her lead and if she backs off you back off.
It almost sounds like no-one's ever flirted with you before.
There's a whole lot of signals going around the office - some are clear, some are mixed and inevitably, different people interpret signals differently. Everything has to be looked at in the correct context. A girl can easily say (and I'm not saying this is what's happening in OP's friend's situation) "come to my house tonight" in a flirty manner and the guy can respond "so where's your home?". Anyone looking at that last message by itself would think this guy's a creep, but if you look at it in context, this guy IS simply responding to her flirting. Now who's to blame here?
If she's made it clear to him (and not in some ambiguous way) that the attention is unwanted then she has every right to complain.
@bobbified: this happens. I know for certain. Men are definitely not the only abusers of power. I lived it for 2 years.
@bobbified: not sure I get your joke, can you please explain it? Also, the irony is that she was a Wesley mission nun before going into her brother's business.
not sure I get your joke, can you please explain it?
OK, my lame joke - I was just playing with your username! haha
she was a Wesley mission nun before going into her brother's business.
Your situation just goes to show that there's a human factor regardless of who it is. lol
I've experienced it from women above and also my direct reports. I really just treat it the same as though I'm in the situation outside of work.
The most memorable one was this lady that was over 10 years my senior. It was pretty intense, but I never saw the need to make an official report. The closest thing I did was take the early precaution of removing my home address from the company systems (that she also had access to). That one took about a year for it to all fizzle out.
@bobbified: wow. This woman was easily 20+ years my senior and I just resigned. Worked out to be a great decision for me but that's down to pure luck.
This woman was easily 20+ years my senior and I just resigned.
Damn! Was she your boss?
Both of us aren't into older ladies! haha
@bobbified:
Just because this happened to a male and you think it a joke is not okay. This concerns me. I hope more young men will speak up for themselves if facing this kind of harassment. It is simply not on. It is not a joke.
Just because this happened to a male and you think it a joke is not okay. This concerns me
Despite all the crap that everyone spews about men and women being the same, it's simply not true! It's a fact that men and women handle things differently.
I've worked with many guys over the years and I'm not the only one that's been on the receiving end of attention. We laugh and joke and give each other shit about it and we even have more serious conversations about it, but not one guy I know has ever felt the need to report it. And no, it's not because we're scared.
Why does that concern you?
@bobbified:
I am concerned because your response was blatantly sexist. Just because you and your friends chose not to report sexual harassment is no reason not to support others (male or female) in such a predicament. I assume then you would have been too embarassed to report it? This behaviour should not ever be taken lightly; it simply is not a joke. I would have thought today that men would have been more supportive of their work colleagues. It only makes things worse in the end to let it pass and continue. A young friend of mine was 17 when his male supervisor was harassing him. Most if his so-called workmates also chose to ignore and laugh it off. He had no family and was considering suicide. It is never a joke.
I am concerned because your response was blatantly sexist
How is what I said "sexist"? This word is thrown around way too easily!
Are you saying that men and women handle things in exactly the same way?
I would support my mates but, like I said, none of them felt the need to take it that far.
There are always going to be extreme cases and the young friend of yours sounds like one of those. If it gets anywhere close to that, then I agree that it should be reported.
I assume then you would have been too embarassed to report it?
The truth is, when it happens to me, I don't report it because I have better things to worry about. I also realise that we are people and that it's not always easy to control emotions. I don't necessarily think those people should lose their job or have their name dragged through the mud. The situations may not be ideal, but it's not something that I couldn't deal with. You probably don't agree, but that's my opinion and how I personally handle these situations.
When it happens outside of work, who would you go to?
@bobbified:
We should not make assumptions, based on sex, how the other party feels.
Apart from my own experience, for which I know now I should have gone to the Police (I was stalked as well by the same person), I have had discussions at different times with friends on the topic. Several males (fathers absent) were very young when harassed by older males; it appears to be very common … far too common. We should never trivialise it. Lechers seem to seek out those without parental or emotional support. Everyone should receive the same support, male or female, and we should all be there for each other.
As I am much older now I am far more likely to be very direct, to the point blunt, and so never get harassed by the same person again. Probably my manner helps in that regard. If it happened again it would depend on the situation; I have friends who would gladly step up or visit the Police. I certainly didn't have that confidence when I was young and living away from home.
@bobbified: personally I don’t interpret any signals in a sexual manner. I’m not at work to pick up a potential partner, m there to work. I look at any interaction like that as just being banter between coworkers, and I make sure people know if the remark is over the line. But I have dealt with a guy asking me out, even though he knew I had a partner. It was very awkward and I did the mumble answer. At no point was I flirting with him.
I look at any interaction like that as just being banter between coworkers
The definition of "banter" is also different between different people. There could be people who find your "banter" offensive and you just don't know about it.
personally I don’t interpret any signals in a sexual manner
It's really funny you say that. I'm generally quite easy-going at work and friendly to everyone. One day, I was talking to a colleague at the lift waiting to go upstairs. Out of nowhere, she said to me "You know I've got a boyfriend right?" line. Honestly, I didn't know what she was trying to say at the time and I replied "awesome". It was only after I got upstairs that I realised that she was indirectly telling me to back off. I could not even think of anything I'd done to potentially make her think that. I wondered for quite some time and I just concluded that she must just be a stuck up bitch. Never tried to ask her out anywhere, never even went for coffee and never spoke about anything personal. What I'm about to say might sound quite mean, but I'm going to say it anyway: In my opinion, she was quite ugly and there was no way I'd even contemplate trying anything. It was just a normal working relationship. Needless to say, I avoided talking to her at all after that!
And this is the danger. Had she reported me to HR for… I don't know exactly what it would've been for.. I would've had my name dragged through the mud and not even known why. In a way, I'm glad that she said what she said and gave me the opportunity to stay right away from her.
But I have dealt with a guy asking me out, even though he knew I had a partner. It was very awkward and I did the mumble answer
I wouldn't have called this "harassment"… It'd be harassment if you told him no and he continued.
@bobbified: I didn't call it harrassment either, I just indicated it is awkward for women to be verbalise how difficult this situation is.
You know, I find your comments about that woman just about sum up everything I said about being turned down and then denigrating the woman involved. I have no idea what the exchange was between you two but it looks like it struck a nerve with her. Given your comments not sure you have the best insight into your behaviour, but as I said, i wasn't there and I don't have her side of the equation. Maybe you could have, genuinely, asked her if there was something you were doing wrong and tried to defuse the issue.
The total point here is she didn't go to HR, so she was able to verbalise that she wasn't keen on the conversation and then you decided to over react. You could have made a concillatory gesture to downplay the situation but you are the one who escalated by then refusing to talk to her. Some guys can't understand why women don't speak up and then get annoyed when they do.
@bobbified:
That's an unusual situation. As you have said you have not done anything you know of to upset her, her comment came right out of the blue, so you were put in an awkward situation. Someone may have made some nasty remark about you and her, and she felt she must say something. If you had any inkling if what she was going to say, then at least you could have asked her why she said that, and clear the air. Just shows you though how some things can indeed come out of the blue like that and you were embarassed and confounded on how to respond.
I didn't call it harrassment either, I just indicated it is awkward for women to be verbalise how difficult this situation is.
Well, you've said that you've experienced sexual harassment before and that is the example you gave.
You know, I find your comments about that woman just about sum up everything I said about being turned down and then denigrating the woman involved.
You may also find that her "turning me down" was uncalled for. In her own mind, she must've thought I was trying to hit on her. Had I really been trying to hit on her and she turned me down, then I'd accept it and stop whatever I was doing. If I went and insisted on her giving me a reason, that would probably escalate the situation. I chose to walk away than to put myself at risk for something that wasn't worth my concern.
If you had any inkling if what she was going to say, then at least you could have asked her why she said that, and clear the air.
The problem is, she said it indirectly and, because hitting on her had never even crossed my mind, I didn't realise what she was getting at until I got back upstairs.
To be very very honest, my first thought after I realised was "What the? She thinks I'm trying to hit on her!".
If she said to me "I've got a boyfriend and I don't appreciate the attention", then I could ask her about it. But she said it in an indirect way and I just didn't know how I could bring up the topic again later (after realising what had just happened) without potentially making her feel like I'm still trying to hit on her.
I really don't know - maybe she's just not used to friendly people?
That's why, besides the obvious things like rubbing yourself up against someone, it's difficult to provide a definite definition of "harassment", given everyone's experiences are different and different people perceive things differently.
I generally try and err on the side of caution.
@bobbified: Please reread my comments, I did not say it was harrassment, I just said it was awkward. My comment was "But I have dealt with a guy asking me out, even though he knew I had a partner. It was very awkward and I did the mumble answer. At no point was I flirting with him".
You seem to be more obessed with the fact she thought you might be asking her out when she was, obviously, not up to your standards, than you are with whatever may have caused the misunderstanding between you. You could've had a shot at de-escalating this situation if you had approached it in a calm manner; she may have just had a bad day and you were the latest problem she encountered, maybe she was joking and it came out the wrong way. Me I would've apologised if she had got the wrong idea and then tried to change the subject to something work neutral to try to get this back on track. Generally in a misunderstanding situation like this, she would apologise for being shitty and the moment would've passed. If not, then you know you have an issue. Getting people down off the wall is a life skill that is particularly useful in the work situation; nothing better than when you can turn someone bollocking you into a "how do we fix this" situation by dropping your ego and handling it properly.
What you're saying works in theory, but it doesn't work that way in real life.
There was an inflamed situation already. That conversation was already awkward. Why would I then go back and potentially make it worse? In her mind, it could've easily been "I told him already and he's still coming to harass me!".
by dropping your ego
Ha! And you think I'm the one with the ego… Oh wait, of course it's my fault because in her twisted mind, I'm the one hitting on her.
@bobbified: You interpreted what she said in that way, she may have meant something completely different. You could've taken the opportunity to apologise, at the time, and try to work out what had happened but you didn't, or you could've found a neutral timeframe to provide an apology and a chance to explain, but you didn't. You seem to have escalated the situation by subsequent actions rather than defused it.
You have, quite plainly, expressed your disdain for her with the line "Oh wait, of course it's my fault because in her twisted mind, I'm the one hitting on her." When you never bothered to find out exactly what she meant by that comment and you have already indicated that she couldn't possibly be a suitable candidate for you because she was too ugly. Your continued denigration of her, without her ability to defend herself, is not attractive. I could make a comment about "shallow" but that would be a pot shot.
@bobbified:
You were put on the spot by that girl like that. If it was me I think curiosity would have got the better of me and I would have asked her why she said that, just to clear the air. Then again you really don't know if she has some problem, so I do understand if you felt better to just avoid her. Maybe an off the record chat with a mutual supervisor may have helped.
I have always made a point of never dating anyone I worked with, and when I have been asked I would just say that, if I was single at the time. If I was single I generally would hide that fact too; I realise that sounds really weak. Our office would sometimes go out in a mixed group but that was it. I have seen office relationships turn pretty sour when they break up; they were not encouraged and someone had to leave then.
The harassment I had from my boss was in my first job and he was a serial offender. Females a few years older females told me about what they had put up with. I was the new office junior 17-18. I hope no one else has found themselves in that situation. I am still annoyed to think both my supervisors (male and female) who were aware of what was going on, did nothing, but tried to tell me to calm down when I finally stormed out of the office. They tried to pacify me. I handed in my resignation the following morning (thrown back at me) and had interviews lined up for the next day. I asked the supervisors about time off for the interviews etc. and they said to me to just go as I needed to. I got the first job I applied for; better company, better pay and better conditions so it all worked out fine for me.
@JediJan:
I was a dedicated worker and also relieved at branches at times although I could not sign contracts then, due to my age. Lecher threatened to have me downgraded to another position in Head Office if I did not go out with him. When I had left the 2IC in HO rang lady (married to policeman) that took over my previous job and asked her if she knew why so many females were leaving. She told me she said that if he didn't know now he never would. So there at least was some suspicions being raised, but the weasel obviously really didn't want to know … next etc. I also moved after starting the new job and the lecher turned up outside my new train station (by complete accident of course!) so I lost it and told him if he ever came near me again I would go to the Police. Week or so after that there was a Police raid while I was at work. The owner's father spotted them trying to get through a window and offered to get a key. Whatever the Police were looking for was never found. I moved yet again. My father was dying, my mother stressed out through caring for him and working and I was too embarassed to ask my brothers for help. The only one that tried to help me was my ex boyfriend. The only thing I could do was leave and move and move yet again. I still feel sick to the stomach just thinking about the harassment. How would you all feel if that was someone in your own family?
It's actually really simple.
Harrassment is a repeated unwanted action.
IE, it's not harassment until she the time after she declares the attention unwanted.
Harrassment is a repeated unwanted action.
IE, it's not harassment until she the time after she declares the attention unwanted.
That's exactly my thoughts!
I'm so sick of someone crying harassment (especially that of a sexual nature!) at the drop of a hat!
Once someone is publicly accused, regardless of whether it's rightly or wrongly, it's very difficult to reputation to get rid of.
That's the definition under Australian law. Repeated unwanted attention.
Seriously, if she doesn’t say it is harassment it isn’t. So repeated comments of “show us your tits” are OK in your book? Or rubbing yourself against her would be
OK? It might get surprise you but faced with guys doing that we men may have trouble verbalising their objection due to fear, particularly if there are a group of guys. How would you like it if a gay male coworker kept hitting on you?
Harrassment is a repeated unwanted action.
Nope, a one-off occurrence can still be harassment.
IE, it's not harassment until she the time after she declares the attention unwanted.
Also not true. If you do something that could reasonably be predicted to be offensive, it's still harassment the first time you do it.
e.g. You can't just walk up to someone you've just met and demand they strip naked and begin having sex with you on the spot.
Citation:
The Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (Cth) states
28 A Meaning of sexual harassment
(1) For the purposes of this Division, a person sexually harasses another person (the person harassed) if:
(a) the person makes an unwelcome sexual advance, or an unwelcome request for sexual favours, to the person harassed; or
(b) engages in other unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature in relation to the person harassed;
in circumstances in which a reasonable person, having regard to all the circumstances, would have anticipated the possibility that the person harassed would be offended, humiliated or intimidated.
block the number, and go tell them to stop. If it continues go to the boss with the phone evidence. Your job is half lost anyway.
Not necessarily, it depends on if the Boss knows. He wouldn't be the first "black sheep" in the family
The boss may plead ignorance too of course; fairly likely. First he heard of it, no one complained to him before, thought everyone was getting along fine etc. etc. But, at least, once told, he would have to appear to be acting on that advice and not ignore it. If he was sensuble he would have a chat to his son and tell him to back off, and that's usually the fix.
Hopefully, and followed by an abject apology to her for not knowing and how he is going to keep his son in line.
@try2bhelpful:
That would be grand but also unlikely I think. I believe in a normal scenario there would be a need to be some final resolution at least; the boss would have to show he has acted on the complaint. I kind of feel sorry for the boss as he is a real unknown in this. He would be pretty stupid if he allowed son's behaviour to continue, with this or any other female. As long as the behaviour stops though I would be satisfied.
A friend works somewhere where her boss son
does this person work there, and if yes then in what capacity.
no doesnt.
no doesnt.
well that changes everything. your friend's story left out the most important part.
Ok so he doesn't work there and is contacting via text… It's so easy to block a number from texting you, why hasn't she?
Ok so he doesn't work there and is contacting via text
there is more to this story than the four lines. this person doesn't work at the company, but has managed to get the phone number. not blocking is strange.
@whooah1979: That means she's either given her number to him (most likey, looking for validation) or two, he's gone through the system and illegally acquired her number.
And also there must've been previous conversations. I find it hard to believe that this guy would instantly go from 0-100 after getting her number (either from herself or from the system).
There's definitely more to this story.
@bobbified: It also doesn't matter at all. Is this girl a kid? If she's at least an adult (18+) and feels like she's legitimately getting harassed she would 1. BLOCK THE NUMBER 2. CALL THE POLICE.
If she is not doing this, she is looking for validation - plain and simple.
I absolutely agree! She doesn't even work with the guy in question!
There are simple steps that can be taken to avoid the situation, but some would say that "the girl shouldn't have to take those steps, blah blah blah".
started flirting and sexually harassed her (verbally, yet), he has been texting her and trying convince her to give out her address etc.
asking for someone's address isn't sexually harassment.
Obviously she thinks it is.Do you normally ask women for their addresses when they have shown no interest in you at all? Personally, as a woman, I would find that incredible intimidating as this guy is already exhibiting stalking behaviour.
Obviously she thinks it is.
if that is the case, then speak up. sexual assault and harassment was all the rage in 2017 with the sacking of high profile people around the world. it won't be difficult for op's friend to get some sort of remedy.
OMG - so sexual harrassment is "all the rage in 2017". Funnily enough it has been all the rage for centuries, it is just that in 2017 we have had a few brave souls step up and explain what is happening to them which is raising a lot of awareness. This young woman is in an incredibly difficult situation. Despite what you might think it is very difficult for women to raise this issue without people "scoffing" at them for being "sensitive". She has one advantage in that this idiot has sent her text messages so she has some sort of proof - if he had just been saying thing to her face he would just deny everything and she is even more vulnerable for raising it. It is up to men to step back and look at their behaviour and see if it could be misinterpreted and to be sensitive to the signals that are being given off. Most women want to go to work, do their job and go home in the evening without being hassled. They don't see their workplace as a dating agency, and if they do, they will make it obvious to the intended recipient. That person should then, respectfully, ask if she is interested in going out with them and then back off if the answer is no. They then should not disparage her to everyone else as being either a "bitch" or "frigid"
nothing will change if op's friend doesn't speak up. it won't be difficult for op's friend to find someone to believe in their story after what happened last year.
@whooah1979: I absolutely agree she needs to step up, but I can understand if she doesn't. She is probably feeling very vulnerable and I don't even know how you start a conversation like this with the Boss. I think the OP needs to help here put her case together and rehearse how she will raise this. She needs to be firm but not sounding like she is trying to blackmail them. She needs the Boss to understand all she wants is for this to stop and the son doesn't seem to be getting the message.
send a registered letter addressed to the accusee's manager with documentation detailing each event.
@whooah1979: That would remove the face to face issue, but the problem is that might be considered an escalation - too "official". It is best if she can keep it low key to start with and only take it further if she is getting the wrong responses from the Boss. If the Boss has any sense he will haul his son in and get an abject apology out of him and get a promise to behave. The Boss should then tell her to come to him immediately if there is any more issues and praise her for having the courage to raise this.
Sexual behaviour doesn’t change. There is no easy way to resolve a situation like this. It’s likely that one of the parties have to leave.
@whooah1979: "Sexual Behaviour doesn't change" - you really think guys have no capacity for insight into their behaviour? However, if we put in a curfew for all the men in the world then violent crime rate would absolutely plummet overnight. We need to put in the oppostite of the Saudi situation; Men aren't allowed out unless they are accompanied by one of their female relatives. (this suggestion is tongue in cheek (mostly).
It shouldn't be her that leavea and, if it is her, then she should leave with a substantial payout and a letter from the employer indicating she was a good worker. This should not be a black mark against her and it could become one if she doesn't address it.
@try2bhelpful:
Why I think the best follow up advice, after sending a very minimally worded response to cease, is to start looking for another job before she leaves that one. Unless working with very supportive colleagues, which apparently isn't happening, unfortunately staying in the job will not be a good experience. Make it known, learn from the experience and move on. There's always a better job!
@JediJan: unfortunately this is what perpetuates the problem and why this issue has blown up so dramatically this year. If I was the Boss and was truly not across what his son had been up to I would be devastated that I wasn’t approached to address this and make good. I agree she doesn’t owe him this but imagine if Weinstein had been belted early on. Not blaming the victims the system is broken, but, unfortunately, it is usually brave women who make the difference. Unfortunately, they also often pay the price for it.
@try2bhelpful: It may be useful for her (and the boss) to have someone who is neutral to the office to attebd a meeting with her and the boss to offer moral support. That way she has a witness to what is said at the meeting and the boss takes her seriously. Preferably someone who does not work in the same office to reduce the possibility of office gossip, which appears would be harmful to all concerned.
Obviously she thinks it is
Doesn't mean it actually is
Actually it is, if she think it is harrassing behaviour, has told him it is, then he continues then it is harrassment.
Unfortunately some are lechers. This one obviously thinks this behaviour is either okay or (because his parent is her boss) that she may give in through fear of losing her job.
Remember we're taking the op's word for it, we don't know if its actually playful banter or just pure aggressiveness.
We don't know if she bats it away with a giggle, or are strong no Im not interested.
The while issue of context is always a problem. Unfortunately this will continue to be a problem long term, as we still live in a society where men have to do the the asking out/courtship.
People are postings things like he should be taking her lead/hints etc… why not a 'no'.
Even from a 3rd perspective we still have the idea that people shouldn't be clear and direct with their words/actions.
In this case she should note down all interactions and if possible record them
why not a 'no'.
No means no. Has she said no and reported the issue to someone that have the power to do something about it?
HR, tell the Boss (the perpetrators dad), or quit.
Only options I can see