Asking for a friend.
A friend works somewhere where her boss son started flirting and sexually harassed her (verbally, yet), he has been texting her and trying convince her to give out her address etc.
She has stopped talking to her but hes hasn't stopped, he has a wife himself, she doesn't want to tell his wife or anyone because she scares to lose her job!
Thoughts?
She should give him the address of the local bikie club and tell him to knock loudly.
Love this reply. Either that or the address of the Fair Work Commission or the local Cop Shop.
^
well it was more than just asking an address, i cant go into details as it would be rated 18+
is this person an agent or do they represent the company in any shape or form?
What state are you in? In some states it is not unlawful to covertly record any conversation you are a part of.
I'd record anyway. About the worst that can happen is it will be inadmissible as evidence in court.
Even if its illegal to record without consent, it is only illegal if she gets caught (and proven) doing it ; )
Even in the states where you need two party consent it is often still lawful to record if you are using the recording to apply for an AVO.
Be very careful who you let know you have these recordings. You may be better off making transcripts of the conversations and only revealing you have recordings, through your lawyer, after they have perjured themselves.
I'd record anyway. About the worst that can happen is it will be inadmissible as evidence in court.
Even if it's upskirt videos to prove the person was sexually aroused?
What are you, taking photos of Scottish men with boners?
I would rather record the conversation illegally than have a stalker any day.
Step one is to firmly and definitively tell him to stop (by SMS, for the record). The difference between flirting and sexual harassment is that flirters stop as soon as they realise the flirting is unwanted while harassers don't. Its possible that the flirting WAS fun at first (your friend's not going to admit that to you, and perhaps not to herself) and the guy is just very slow to realise things have changed.
If that works, end of story. If it doesn't stop immediately then step two - go to the dad. I guarantee he'll be much angrier with his son than your friend. Family relationships apart, son is risking losing a good worker and getting the business sued. If Dad is sensible he won't hold it against your friend at all, and if he's not sensible she has those SMSs which would make sacking extremely legally hazardous.
You are assuming she was flirting in the first place, why do guys think that women who are subject to sexual harrassment have been flirting with guys in the office. Some guys just see any woman as fair game and worth a "crack". A bit of casual touching, making "risque" suggestions - it's all just light hearted banter isn't it? If she doesn't object she is up for the next level, isn't she? if she objects she's a militant feminist who has never been laid and can't take a joke - then you can start white anting her with your fellow colleagues. Then she starts doubting herself to see if there is something she did that "lead him astray" and then she gets isolated and quits so the perps can go onto the next "fresh meat".
It is a pity that women don't have the courage to just say "You are a nice guy but f*** off, I'm not interested" then everyone knows where they stand; this should be a lesson that is taught regularly in High School.
But my experience is women don't generally do that - we tend to freeze and mumble excuses because we try to avoid confrontation like this; particularly if they think the situation will escalate. We then try to get out of there as soon as possible.
My heart goes out to this women she is being asked to shoulder a big burden at a young age and is in a vulnerable postition. I wish her all the best.
It is a pity that women don't have the courage to just say "You are a nice guy but f*** off, I'm not interested" then everyone knows where they stand; this should be a lesson that is taught regularly in High School.
They don't because of what can happen when they do that.
You aren't wrong there. So we need to teach guys that that comment means that women aren't interested and not to take offence. I am female and the whole situation does make me despair.
Totally agree.
But as a bloke, I don't think women owe me even that courtesy. It's not up to them to soft-pedal in order to spare my feelings.
But then, flirting at work strikes me as highly unprofessional, and hassling women when it's clear they don't want to be hassled is pretty scummy to say the least.
@NoPantsToday: completely agree. There is a difference between banter and flirting too. I often say things as “one of the guys” and have never seen any of it as flirting. The best thing to assume is there is nothing sexual in any exchange, just humour. I have never flirted with coworkers, you should never mess in your nest.
Because women are prone to lying to make themselves look good like anyone else. Or they're just assholes - like anyone else. Or they may be telling the truth.
Getting so sick of this women must be believed about everything lunacy that's being pushed at the moment.
Getting so sick of this women must be believed about everything lunacy that's being pushed at the moment.
I normally don't agree with much that you say (even though I think you're trolling sometimes!), but I couldn't agree more with this! No-one ever bothers listening to the guy's side on these issues because "women are angels and never lie"!
We need fairness for both sides!
It may be a bit of "overkill" but unfortunately it's a necessary evil atm, in order to be heard once and for all about this issue. The power balance is and always has been stacked against us at work. So now we fight back tooth and nail and hope that one day this stops for everyone's sake.
but unfortunately it's a necessary evil atm,
It's not a necessary evil! You're saying that the ruining of some people's lives, even if they are innocent, is necessary and it's simply collateral damage in your fight.
This I don't agree with! Everything should still go through proper process before someone is crucified.
There's a really old saying:
It is better that ten guilty escape than one innocent suffer.
No daughters hey? If you have I seriously hope for them that they never have to experience this type of behavior. I pity any young girl with work colleagues who have that kind of attitude. Or she has to travel on public transport with fellow commuters that HIDE behind their newspapers or tech gear with their headphones on. May as well all go and bury their heads in the sand hey? Not their problem of course! Definitely not only a modern day occurence but …
No daughters hey?…. I pity any young girl with work colleagues who have that kind of attitude.
No sons, hey? I pity any guy that simply gets accused by a girl for something he didn't do.
He is likely to lose his job and have his name dragged through the mud before even getting a chance to respond.
See the point?
We're not saying that we don't believe the women. We need fairness for both the women AND the men.
There is a process for fairness and that should be followed before any action is taken against anyone - and that includes naming and shaming!
@bobbified:
I totally agree with all you have said. I should have worded that better.
I directed my comment to Diji1 as I felt that comment could not come from a girl's father. But, I have experienced, seen and heard of some pathetic behaviour. Not only from the perpetuator but others that witness it and choose to ignore. The classic; not get involved!
Yes, I have a son too. I always remind him he must ask relevant questions with girls and appreciate they can change their minds whenever they want, and too bad if they do. He has been brought up with a (public) education system that has addressed appropriate behaviours such as your body is your responsibility to look after, no one has the right to touch etc. and also to be aware of predatory behaviour.
People also make mistakes but if they do should acknowledge it and immediately apologise.
@JediJan: maybe the people with sons should be taking them to one side and explain it is up to them to not abuse women. They need healthy attitudes to their own sexuality and have respect for their own bodies, as well as woman. This attitude that women are fair game, particularly if you can get them drunk, is just appallingly. Teach your sons to be protective of the vulnerable. How would you feel is some older guy took advantage of your son being drunk to bugger him?
@try2bhelpful:
Well if they really care about their sons and daughters they would be saying those things … many times over. Young people do need reminding to take care of one another.
I think the boys are just as vulnerable as the girls, but possibly even more likely not to make a complaint. There has been a lot of anti-bullying sentiment in schools these days, which most seem to absorb.
Fortunately my son doesn't even drink alcohol (0% alcohol P plater); just his thing. He would still be at risk if his drink was spiked; have discussed this with him afew times. If such a thing happened to my son I wouldn't like to put in print what would be done to them.
@JediJan: I sincerely hope that everyone's children are sensible and safe. Unfortunately some kids, and particularly some boys, have a feeling they are invulnerable and engage in risky behaviour. Males are more likely to be perpetrators of violence, but they are also more likely to be victims. I'm glad you have this talk with your boy, I wish everyone would. I wish him a safe passage through life.
@try2bhelpful:
Thank you. We can only hope so. He tends to go out with good friends, so hopefully they are all looking out for each other. He isn't backward in coming forward and speaking up. Has almost got into bother at school sticking up for one girl years ago, as they were teasing her hair style (yes, I know!?) but fortunately this did not escalate.
In another situation I was told a girl had started a verbal abuse argument against a boy, and unfortunately he was drawn into it trying to defend her. Hard to get it right sometimes I guess! (I always said if girls argue and fight don't get involved but this time it was girl picking a boy!) When I found out I did tell him he should have apologised to the boy, but the teachers disagreed. Appears that particular boy had a bullying reputation, so the teachers didn't like him. Seemed a bit unfair to me that my son got off scott free, when the other two didn't.
@JediJan: Always a bit difficult with how to judge that. When I was a kid another kid through a stone at me and cut me across the eyebrow. I needed butterfly bandages because they couldn't do stitches due to the position. My dad went to talk to his dad and the kid accused me of mouthing off so he threw the stone - so they let it slide. I'm still furious to this day that the adults thought it was OK for the kid to resort to violence to deal with a verbal argument; what sort of lesson where they teaching there. Then again my Dad used to strap us with a leather belt when we were bad. We thought it was normal but years later, after my dad had died, we casually mentioned it in front of my mother, she denied it emphatically. It turned out it was the "special" punishment he meted out when he looked after us on Saturday morning whilst my mum was working. It didn't even occur to us to mention it to her, we just assumed she knew and approved.
@try2bhelpful:
Yes, I know that was a tricky one. The fight involved pushing and shoving and others ran to get help from a teacher. My son pushed the other boy away first, so in my opinion my son was wrong. I felt sorry for the boy who first copped abuse from the girl, then getting pushed away by my son when he responded likewise to the girl. So, to me, they ALL should have been in trouble. I don't necessarily agree with teachers all the time. Maybe they were happy someone was standing up to the bully; who knows. I did offer to speak with the other boys parents to say so, but teachers did not want me to get involved. I did tell my son then to keep out of it if that girl started abusing that boy again.
@JediJan: Always very tricky, you never know what the background is. She may have been responding to previous bullying by this guy and it would depend on who said she started it. The best thing your son could've done was to yell at them both to "stop arguing"; it may have been enough to startle them into stopping. I agree with your approach, people need to tell their children to not resort to violence, no matter what the verbal provication is; that will always get him into trouble. The last thing people want is for teachers to get the impression their child is the bully. As you have seen, teachers can be less than sympathetic to these sort of kids and, often, it is their parents who are the issue rather than the kids; which is probably why the teachers didn't want you to talk to the father.
@try2bhelpful:
My son said the girl (his best friend then) actually started it. He gave me an account of who said, did what etc. I didn't tell my son off so much as tell him that he was wrong and should have kept his hands to himself; that it was his fault if they started fighting, and I could hardly argue for him when he did that. It was pretty bad behaviour by them all.
@JediJan: Agree, I would say that kids can be such jerks; but then adults can be such jerks as well. Sounds like a kid with a very clear thinking father; he is very lucky.
@try2bhelpful:
Father has not had any contact since son was a baby; his choice. Long story but father has basically left it too long for my son (couldn't even bother sending a few birthday cards). So now I cannot even convince my son to speak to him on the phone. So here I am stuck in the middle between 2 stubborn males. I have made a point of not running down the father too. Must be all my fault I guess; well, I feel certain father is blaming me!
All kids make mistakes; hopefully nothing too bad and they learn by them. I think every kid deserves a second chance, even the bullies.
@JediJan: Sorry, I assumed you were his father. Mea Culpa, I will now assume you are his mother and hope I've not make another faux pas; either way the kid has a great parent. People give single parents crap, which is just so much BS. As harsh as it sounds some parents don't deserve to be involved in the upbringing of their children; they donated bits of DNA to the process that is all. You sound like a very loving and sensible person and I think you are making a very sensible decision keeping the situation with the father as judgement neutral as possible. As an adult your son can make up his own mind and pursue the pathway with his father or not; you have done the best you can to set him on his way.
@try2bhelpful:
Lol; doesn't really matter but I am the Mother. Yes, we all may want better things for our children, but real life doesn't always work out that way, so we just got to get on and do the best we can. If and when anything goes wrong I always tell my son it must be my fault, because well, no one else to blame. It's nice when he says it's not!
The fact that he is not into alcohol is different (I rarely have a drink myself), but I take no credit for that. He just doesn't like it (doesn't like soda either) and he doesn't want to risk his licence either. It's good he can be different and not be concerned what others think of that.
@bobbified:
What I meant was it's a necessary evil that women are being overly vocal, in your face, everywhere in the media, social, shouting it from the bloody rooftops!
You would think if there are several women saying the same thing about a certain individual or talking to their family/friends about it, then an investigation and due process should follow.Unfortunately most of the time it doesn't because society expects us to brush it off, to be more resilient, that we "asked for it" or that's all in our head.Nothing major, get over it, I'm sure he didn't mean it like that, it's all in your head.
I have personally experienced, unsolicited, verbal, physical and psychological, sexual assault. I was too afraid to say anything because I knew I would be told to "get over it" , being afraid of retribution and ultimately nobody would believe me.
I had men/boys call me a cock-teaser,when I told one I wasn't interested, had old men and young men take pictures of me without my permission, had men follow me on the street to trying to get my address, name, number and personal details, a bus driver (overseas) wouldn't let me out of the bus, all the while trying to chat me up and I was alone in the bus and the list goes on…
Go on… tell me all about how you've helped a woman any woman through an ordeal like harrassment.
@itajac:
I am sorry to hear this; much worse than what I put up with years ago. It is definitely an acquired thing for many to speak up loudly when others expect one to not make a fuss and put up with it. Or say they asked for it because they were flirting. Or the ridiculous response saying they are man haters etc… Many young 17-18 (and older) would feel intimidated by this behaviour and find it difficult to address and speak up. The whole process is scary for most. That's why we need the other (older and hopefully more mature) workers to offer a kind word and maybe even speak up for them. Saying nothing when you witness that predatory behaviour is supporting that behaviour. Many of us have young children that will one day enter the workforce too. Set an example and look out for the interests of your young work colleagues, that young girl being followed on the train etc. It is the only way to get a hold on predatory behaviour. Look out for each other.
@JediJan: Sounds like you can be proud of the job you have done, congratulations. I am in my 50s and most of the young people I know aren't interested in binge drinking; in fact they drink almost no alcohol at all and are very level headed young people. Unfortunately there are a bad few out there that tarnish to good ones.
@try2bhelpful:
I am in my 50s too now, as much as I don't want to be. I also think most of our young people are wonderful, although they always seem to be getting a bad rap for the few who fell off the good path a bit. Most of son's friends will have the occasional drink, but he just never liked it, and obviously he does not get any pressure from his peers. If they are going to make a few mistakes in life then better to get them over with, learn from them and don't do the same again.
Young teen (maybe 15) showing off with his friends running carelessly through shopping centre. All the frowns and dark looks he received but he obviously didn't notice any! I had a quiet, respectful word to him about the very real risk he may knock an elderly person over, who may never be able to walk again. He listened, absorbed and quietened down. He wasn't such a bad kid; just one that wasn't thinking.
@JediJan:
Thanks JediJan, it will stop once we can all safely speak up about it and have a conversation, that is not based on pointing fingers or who's right and who's wrong but rather having each other's backs and being supportive and aware.
Maybe one day we'll be able to extinguish it altogether, I can only hope for my children's sake.
@itajac:
I think it was great to see so many people get in and debate this issue today. We don't all agree on points, but it shows that most people really care.
Fortunately I don't think things are as backward today as what it once was. At the very least there is the legislation now to support those who are brave enough to fight. We generally had little support and were met with ignorance and backward behaviour. The young get far better career, bullying, sex, discriminatoon education and advice than we did when we were at schools. That's a great start that we could well have done with hey?
The young generally have the information, but that pales into insignificance if their work colleagues don't support them. So, as you say it is up to us to have their backs and support others in their times of need, just as we would want others to support our young. I have a lot of hope for our new generations coming on; they could give some of us a few pointers too. 😊
Its called looking at all areas. Its not an assumption. Getting pedantic and assuming she wasn't is just as bad if not worse, innocent peoples lives have been ruined because they have assume they claimer was telling the truth.
Its what they do in court.
I’d rather innocent people were challenged in court than sexual harassers be free to continue to attack other people; which is what, too often, happens nowadays. Hopefully the world is shifting to where we stop believing women are just making it up because they are psycho bitches. We need to shift to a culture of only YES means YES. Clear questions of consent are asked and clear consensual answers received. It might mean fewer people get laid but that is not, necessarily, a bad thing.
I’d rather innocent people were challenged in court
These people can then sue their accuser for defamation after the court acquits them of the charges.
@whooah1979: They could, but only if they can prove malice and intent. The other thing to keep in mind is that the burden of proof is not has high in civil cases. It could backfire if the victim can prove, on the balance of probabilities, that her account is credible.
Speak to a solicitor and/or Fair Work (who frankly I wouldn't trust given they were setup by a Liberal government, their previous terrible decisions and Orwellian name).
She has stopped talking to her
I am confused. Her, who?
I think her boss is the guy's mother. I think everyone is assuming that the boss is the father.
I have wondered on that too, but it should not make any difference to the problem.
Agree to one date. You never know!
Take SCREENSHOTS for proof and BLOCK his number.
Tell him to stop. If continues, then leave, some people suggesting that she should fight it, but she needs to see what's waiting at the end of the fight and consider whether it's worth it or not. Then weigh that with leave the job option and see which one will cause her less frustration. Make her decison based on that.
Some creeps simply don't GET the message. He is also only doing this because he must know her fellow employees are weak too; shame on the lot of them! Those of you reading this know if your workmates may be suffering this. What if it was you, your sister, your mother?
Unfortunately the longer this continues the worse it will get for your friend. She must have a word to her supervisor and document this action and any further harassment. I know how hard this is to put up with.
Had similar problem when I was very young, so I finally just quit and found another job … my ex-boyfriend at the time also threatened to tell his wife, but he apparently didn't care. My workmates, supervisor also, was aware of the problem but did nothing to help; everyone knew. So much for the good old days! I was even stalked; I had even moved address but he showed up near my new station (quite by accident of course!) after work one day, but I really lost my temper then and threatened to go the Police.
Your friend must find her voice and be very LOUD and tell him straight she is not interested and is finding his behaviour really annoying. The more people that HEAR this the better!
Next a few hefty (suddenly adopted) "big" brothers or cousins appear on the scene to take her to and pick her up from work. The type that will eye him up and down and make it known they don't approve. I am sure someone could arrange a few "friends" to put this character in his place.
Some people need to get knocked the f out! Goodluck tho
Swift kick to the balls.
your response has made all 85 others redundant … bravo.:)
Seeing as the offender doesn't work at the business, it seems the logical process is to tell the bosses son that she's not interested, block his number and save further evidence of the texts.
If problems persist, report the matter to the authorities.
Doesn't seem like a work harassment matter.
OP has misled everyone. 90% of the comment here don't apply because of this fact.
Has nothing to do with workplace harrassment. Just an idiot texting her.
I would disagree as this has occured because he has been taking advantage of the fact he is the boss's son, and the harassment has happened at work. OP said she has stopped talking to him but he persists.
Okay; not sure if he obtained her mobile number through work records or she was silly enough to give it to him. Still, as you know, either way he should not persist and by doing so it is harassment.
No excuse at all, but young people need to remember to keep work relationships at arm's distance and not get too friendly. Just the way it us. Expensive lesson for this girl as I am sure she should be looking for another job, but it is easier to find another while you still have one. There are lechers out there; always have been and always will be by the sounds of it.
If her number was not obtained from her boss (the father), then HR at work doesn't really have anything to do with the harassment. The very most that HR can do would be to ensure that she doesn't get treated unfairly as a result of her dealings with the son. There's a million ways in treating someone unfairly and it'll be very difficult to prove.
At the end of the day, the son and the father are two completely different people and there's no reason the father would be accountable for anything his son does unless it can be proven that he is involved by doing something like feeding the son with information about her.
I highly doubt the father would get involved given that the son is already married.
No excuse at all, but young people need to remember to keep work relationships at arm's distance and not get too friendly.
In theory I agree, however, we are humans and humans have emotions. It's not easy to separate work and play especially when companies push for social events so that staff get along and function well together. It's inevitable that relationships between colleagues will happen. One just needs to ensure that these relationships don't impact what goes on at work.
I would disagree as this has occurred because he has been taking advantage of the fact he is the boss's son, and the harassment has happened at work. OP said she has stopped talking to him but he persists.
OP is so light on details that we don't know if anything has happened other than texting.
Without making any assumptions of the situation, it seems that the matter is between two people outside of a workplace, and hence is not subject to normal processes used for harassment/bullying disputes between staff.
If asking him to stop and blocking the number doesn't deescalate the situation, OP's friend should report the matter to the police — not her employer or Fair Work. Depending on this woman's relationship with her boss, she may feel comfortable enough to raise the matter with him privately prior to taking further action — but this is not necessary.
@QW3RTY:
Yes, of course follow the steps people have suggested, but depends very much on the relationship between her boss and herself. If I was a reasonably minded boss I would appreciate being advised of the situation, rather than have the Police involved. Unfortunately we are not all reasonable.
OP is so light on details that we don't know if anything…
Posts that are seeking help for friends are always like this. Two sentences of information, scant details, no response to questions. I don't even think the OP is the right person to offer help. Why Is She Doing This to Me?
Wow.. good work on that find!
I wonder if he's referring to this same "friend" in both threads!
Because if he is, then she's probably full of shit and just trying to make him concerned about her!
Get a lawyer to send a Cease & Desist letter. Give dates & times
Next step would be to take him to court and apply for whatever restraining order is relevant in your state.
Yeah I'm sure her boss would be cool with his son not being able to visit him at work.
You are victim shaming and victim blaming. It will not get you far.
You really have no idea what you're saying do you.
Document everything into a nice, neat letter with dates & times. Make sure you have a backup of the texts via an app which are then stored in a few places for safe-keeping.
Do try, one more time, to end the attention in a text.
If the reply is not heeding her request to stop, the next text should be something along these lines: "I feel terrible for your wife & family & also that they should know what you're doing. I don't want to say anything, but you are really giving me no choice. Please stop harassing me, immediately".
It might work, & he might back off. He'll know she has the texts as evidence. This note is showing she does NOT want to divulge his sick attention, but he is forcing the issue.
She doesn't know how ANYTHING she does is going to turn out. So it's far better to explain to another potential boss TODAY why he can't phone her current boss for a reference, than to have the current one rubbish her to everyone in sight when he DOES know she's looking for another job.
The exception is, if she thinks her boss will appreciate a quite word because he respects marriage/the daughter in-law, AND she believes he will tell the son to back off, just do his job, and not treat her badly from then on. If she had just made it clear from the start - NOT interested! - he probably would have just gone back to being normal workmates. But not stating it loud and clear at the start, he'll now think she's a tease and might rubbish her constantly to his father.
Seriously, the suggestions to record events and times, go to HR, etc. - it's probably a smallish family business. That 'proper legal' stuff is pointless. This is the real world. If she can't talk to the father quietly, with concern in her voice - playing the innocent victim card - and actually say words like, she wants to keep her job, likes working there, would never betray the guy to his wife, was worried about looking like she was trying to make the father think less of his son, and doesn't want to offend the son either, etc. and is only coming to him about it because she's concerned for his son's wife and marriage… then it's time to move on anyway. Better to do it without receiving any 'revenge' in the meantime.
The fact that she is already employed should go down well with any new possible employer. When I found a job after resigning, the very next day, the new bosses were not interested in receiving a reference. I addressed the matter of the good reputation of the new company and saying how I was looking forward to the new job. Of course I did not criticise my current employers. That is not what one does when applying for another job; you play up, not down, to be professional. I did give my supervisors name and phone number, whom I already knew would give me a good phone reference. By the time I arrived back at work I received the phone call to say I had the job … when can I start? I had two weeks notice to work off and I could hardly wait!
The "bosses son" wants her address.
He already knows it… and only wants her to reaffirm this so he can take things further.
Best thing for her to do is this (in order)-
1) Find a new job
2) Whilst doing the above.. make a record of all the events occuring and keep all evidence of sexual harrassment such as text messages.
3) Once new job is secured, go to the police station.
4) Make a complaint of sexual assault (give a victim statement), present all the evidence at hand.
5) Take out an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO). Take it all the way to court…. make his life miserable. If a conviction is secured… even better!
This happened to my sister in law and it set in place a cascade of actions that ended up with her being raped and the perpetrator jailed. I would honestly take a no nonsense stand from the get go. First of all, let the boss know, regardless of his/her relationship with the perpetrator. Secondly, prepare to get let go. I don't think she would want to stay in that place anyway but I can almost guarantee that things are going to get hostile. Its going to be better in the long run to leave and start fresh somewhere else.
My abolute sympathies for your sister-in-law what a horrible outcome; but, I think, that is a rather extreme outcome from these sort of cases - or at least I hope so. If the Boss is not aware of what his son is doing then he may bend over backwards to make things right for her. I agree, this may not occur but if I was the Boss I would sure be trying to make nice so she doesn't escalate this further; particularly given she has the text messages. If the Boss gets hostile she has the perfect storm to go to Fair Work with.
It's actually far less extreme or rare of an outcome than you think. It is very common but swept under the rug because women don't want to go to court and be made to relive the rape in front of the rapist (despite what Hollywood would have you believe). Fair Work can only do so much and I agree with darkzen, I would look at leaving ASAP before this escalates. I can see how it sounds extreme if it's not an area you've been exposed to, because it is shockingly underreported (insofar as it makes it to the courts), but in terms of numbers actually reported, it's still pretty bad. If you're interested in knowing more, there's a breakdown of the problem here:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/chapter-4-nature…
I've been sexually harassed a few times times at work. And I don't 'flirt' with my 60+ year old bosses. I've had female colleagues who have been assaulted. It would be career suicide if I ever called it out, and having to retrain in something when I have a mortgage and a child just isn't possible. Bosses are very very reluctant to tackle these things because it's often a he-said she-said scenario and the he is almost always in a position of greater power, which means losing the more useful person in the business. Obviously if it's blatant and happening to multiple people it's a different story, but these guys always isolate women and make sure they're seen as the good guys and women are opportunistic or crazy or 'asked for it'. Of course this isn't all men by any means, most of my male colleagues are fantastic humans, who also feel powerless when they hear these stories. This woman needs to protect herself first and foremost, document everything, and yes tell the boss but look elsewhere too and contact Fairwork.
Sadly, I don't disagree with the "look elsewhere" suggestion and, I agree, that the reporting and conviction rates for sexual crimes, including rape, are appallingly low. Hopefully the tide is beginning to turn with the reporting in 2017 but what this has really shown is that if people are proactive they have a chance to turn over the rocks and expose the perpetrators. The OPs friend has the text messages, which make a he said/she said a bit less likely. If the Boss is clever he will address this issue, and if he doesn't, then she has even more ammunition to go to Fair Work with. Everybody needs to step up to protect each other. Don't let people get away with the disparaging comment about a coworker, particularly if it is of a sexual nature. We need to think before we speak ourselves - could what we are about to say be taken badly by people around me, one person's joke is another person's offence - we don't know the background of people around us, we could be dealing with someone who has been raped or abused - they may be horrified by an "off" joke. People need to decide if they want to be "right" or do they want to "fit in". Supporting a vulnerable person might the most important thing you do at work that day.
@try2bhelpful: I agree but I reporting sexual harassment, even with some text messages is difficult and fraught. And everyone needs to protect each other but often they don't. More often than not they don't want a bar of it and don't want to be associated with the whistleblower. This is well documented. And there's no reason why she can't protect herself and leave the workplace as well as report, as these things do have a habit of escalating.
In terms of reporting sexual harassment, what the person really needs in these situations is an advocate or ally willing to go in to bat with them and for them. They should not just meet with the boss alone and report it. They need a colleague, superior, someone from their union or some other representative with them as they extremely vulnerable, they are often scared and easy to manipulate. More often than not they don't want to 'rock the boat' because there is too much on the line for them. Another job doesn't feel guaranteed, they may not get a reference, they may get known in the industry as the one who 'cried' sexual harassment when the perpetrator will claim 'they were just joking' or 'it never happened'. And not that I at all agree with the trials by media happening at the moment, you only have to look at Craig McLachlan calling anyone making a complaint as 'opportunistic' and denying everything to know this. I don't think Darkzens example was extreme at all, just underreported and I really want this woman to prioritise her own safety above all else. She can still get the book thrown at them, she just doesn't necessarily need to be there while it's all going down, if it's going to be a risk to her own safety.
I persoanlly have not been in this situation before but my advice to anyone would be,
(Document the occasions - Keep any evidence.
1: Politely ask the Bosses son to Stop, Talking around It does make her feel unportable and embarrassed she has to bring it up with him.
Document the Conversation and His agreement for it to Stop.
If she feel necessary send him an Email with agreed actions post the catch up.
If continues - Refer to Conversations and agreed actions.
If She feels any unfair treatment is taken toward her post conversations, Follow internal complaint process, No resolution then Fairwork.
Remember, You are clear on what is happening , How it makes you feel, It is unwanted and what the repercussions if it continues.
To those who think this is a battle of the sexes it's not, I know a guy who was sexually harassed by a girl at work and he was fearing for his life (the girl stalked him), he had to go to court to get a restraining order, she eventually got fired. It was a terrible time for him.
I agree with clearly tell the boss's son to stop, and document everything in case something bad or unfair happens. Keep confidants at work too they might be able to help out in hostile or sticky situations. Stay firm and consistent with your approach, since the son doesn't actually work there just never have any contact with him.
I agree, I've seen female consultants harass young male juniors and it's just awful.
It is, I remember he said to me once that he was scared even though she was physically smaller and weaker than him, he could only imagine how much more scared women victims would feel.
"What can I do if I’m experiencing sexual harassment at work?
Raise the issue directly with the harasser and tell them that their behaviour is unwelcome
Talk to a colleague for support
Talk to a union delegate or contact a union office for advice
Contact a community legal centre or working women’s centre for legal advice
Contact 1800 RESPECT for telephone and online counselling, information and referral
Make a complaint to your manager/employer
Contact the Australian Human Rights Commission or state and federal anti-discrimination agencies for information or to make a complaint"
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/sex-discrimination/p…
This thread is entertaining.. I need more popcorn.
Just tell Craig McLaughlin to stop it.
Hey Mona……..
Heartbreaking article about why sexual assault doesn't get reported…
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/can-juries-deliver-justice-…
I read that article. The attitude of some of the people on that jury is beyond belief. There are people who don't care what the evidence is they don't want to "ruin" the life of the defendant on the basis of psycho women who don't understand that is what God intended them to be used for; even if they were little girls at the time. By their nature sexual assault cases should be ajudicated by judge alone; it would be fairer on both sides. (Hopefully, in this case, the victims will get the support they need and a new trial will be held.) The conviction rate for sexual assault is woefully low; the attitude seems to be "it's only sex, just get over it", instead of it being the violation of a person who will carry the trauma for the rest of their life.
I so agree with this, I don't think juries should be involved in these cases at all. I got called for jury duty, got as far as jury selection for a horrific child abuse case (parents to own children, over decades), and as soon as I stood up, the defendants rejected me. When you stand up and do the walk they call out your name and your occupation. The jury got populated with older male tradies and housewives. Here's hoping we see some reform :/
Thought about my initial response, realised I've been watching way too much 'Shameless'.. now keeping quiet.
Off topic but is it worth watching shameless?
I heard it fell off majorly.
It's the American one on Netflix, just for clarification.
To answer your question though.. I still don't know.
I'm up to about season 5 but it went from something I tried to watch, to something I kinda have on in the background while doing work things.
Is it a great show? Naaa.
Definitely entertaining in parts and if you're a fan of a semi-naked Emmy Rossum (which I happen to be), then it's generally enough to stick with the fairly played out story-lines (just think of the most despicable thing you can do and try and shock people) for at least a while.
All in all, I give it 17.3 out of 27 Leonard Maltins'.
Give her this web address and be there for her no matter what decision she makes.
http://knowtheline.humanrights.gov.au/?_ga=2.111202691.64185…
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/sex-discrimination/gu…
@whooah1979:
We are not getting enough info, but assume she has said no as not given the son her address when asked.
Unfortunately there are some that do not take no for an answer and still persevere.