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Lowest price I could see on OzBargain for the Dyson V10 Absolute Plus.
Original PROTOTYPE 20% off selected sellers at eBay Deal Post
Dyson Cyclone V10 Absolute Plus Handstick $799.20 + Postage or Free Store Pickup @ Bing Lee eBay
800
hendroxi on 20/05/2018 - 11:14 ebay.com.au (3614 clicks)
Last edited 20/05/2018 - 13:20 by 1 other user
Last edited 20/05/2018 - 13:20 by 1 other user
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Crazily overpriced
So you're saying that you paid $150 too much.
Lol, you call your self a Ozb?
Punctuations can save lives! Remember that.
Panda: Eats, shoots and leaves :P
Wombat: Eats, roots and leaves ;)
"our tests show that in max mode with the brush bar employed, the battery on the V10 only lasts a mere nine minutes"
https://www.choice.com.au/home-and-living/laundry-and-cleani…In other words, make sure you also own a corded vacuum if your the type of person to do a weekly clean rather than spot clean every second day.
Wow 9 minutes!
Any other cordless vac that lasts longer and has decent animal attachments ?
Would you prefer an elephant or zebra?
needs a little blue pill?!!?
Presumably you don't need to run it on maximum power most of the time though. I usually leave my non-Dyson or cordless vacuum cleaner on lowest power because it's quieter and uses less juice.
If you are using the low power mode you may as well have purchased a cheap cleaner.
I posted this as part of a discussion on a previous deal
The Dyson V10 claims 150 air watts in maximum mode.
A Miele Complete C3 Brilliant does 250 air watts
A Dyson Cinetic is 230 air wattsSo that's 60% less suction power than a corded model.
But the rated air watts are in Maximum mode (which a corded model always does)
In standard mode the V6 has 28 airwatts (V7 and v8 are slightly less at 22 air watts) so the V10 will probably be the same.
Thats 90% less suction than a corded model on the standard mode.Dyson doesnt publish battery life for each mode however the V6 lasted 20 minutes on Standard and 6 minutes on Maximum.
The V10 claims 60 minutes so let's just assume it is triple the battery life across all settings. That means Maximum mode will give you 18 minutes of use on maximum.If you want the 60 minutes of use you are going to be cleaning with only 10% of the power of a corded unit.
And that is with a brand new battery.
We know that battery life will degrade over time so those minutes will get shorter each use.Could you please show me where you got that information?
If valid, that's all the proof people should need to realise what a joke these Dyson stick cleaners are, and how badly they are swayed by advertising and brand prestige over price to performance. They might chirp up and say that it's agitation as well as suction that makes a vacuum but not realise that all the other vacuums can come with powered agitating heads too.
They will need to buy a new battery in 2 years time too, talked about getting Dysoned hard! It should be a new expression.
If you are using the low power mode you may as well have purchased a cheap cleaner.
I think air watts is like megapixels. It depends on the situation where you're using it in.
Sure, more watts gives more suction power like how more megapixels gives more resolution.
But just like not how every task needs a 42MP camera, not every vacuuming job needs 250 air watts. So we shouldn't fixate on the big marketing numbers and decide what's best for our particular situation instead.
I have hard floors and had no problems switching from my mains Volta vac to a DC59, even in low power mode for my unit. If there are larger particles that I need to suck up, I can turn on max mode.
We know that battery life will degrade over time so those minutes will get shorter each use.
Dyson claims it'll last a lot longer than old batteries.
https://www.techradar.com/news/james-dyson-promises-15-year-…@c0balt: funny that Dyson’s claim to fame was cost saving by not buying bags. I wonder how the cost of batteries vs bags stacks up in the long term. Of course, factor in that Dyson’s are probably 3x more expensive than the equivalent Miele, which you can grab for ~$300 on a sale, compared to the top corded Dyson which can be had for $1K (possibly less on sale, can’t recall seeing them on sale though).
@c0balt: “how badly they are swayed by advertising and brand prestige over price to performance”
Convenience is a super important factor too and where Dyson hands down beat most alternatives. At the low power mode our Dyson also our performed our lower end Miele and our apartments built in wall units and that’s the older V6. Apparently the V10 would be a decent step up on that.
Granted, they are expensive.
I was also looking into this; this review said V10 lasts 8 minutes on Max (sucking) power mode: http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/dyson-v10-absolute-cor…
The Dyson V10 claims 150 air watts in maximum mode.
https://www.cnet.com/products/dyson-cyclone-v10-absolute/pre…
A Miele Complete C3 Brilliant does 250 air watts
A Dyson Cinetic is 230 air watts
In standard mode the V6 has 28 airwattshttps://www.vacuumsguide.com/miele-vs-dyson/
Dyson doesnt publish battery life for each mode however the V6 lasted 20 minutes on Standard and 6 minutes on Maximum.
It looks like I was wrong, they do https://www.dyson.com.au/vacuum-cleaners/cordless/dyson-v6/a…
But they only publish an "up to" runtime of 60 minutes for the V10 - http://shop.dyson.com.au/vacuum-cleaners/dyson-cyclone-v10-a…
They do not publish the maximum runtime in max mode.It looks like my estimate of 18 minutes was too high.
jace88 said below:I was also looking into this; this review said V10 lasts 8 minutes on Max (sucking) power mode: http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/dyson-v10-absolute-cor…
Also something interesting for the V10 on the Dyson website
https://www.dyson.com.au/vacuum-cleaners/handstick/dyson-v10…
**All performance claims are based on machines available in the Japanese market in July 2014. Claims are only applicable where the product is available to buy from Dyson or our authorised retailers.So they are testing a 2018 model against those in Japan back in 2014
Which means
The Dyson Cyclone V10™ vacuum has the most powerful suction of any cordless stick vacuum in use
Really says
The Dyson Cyclone V10™ vacuum has the most powerful suction of any cordless stick vacuum that was available in Japan in 2014
So they are testing a 2018 model against those in Japan back in 2014
Does anyone else make a cordless vac with more powerful suction, even in 2018?
@eug:
I think air watts is like megapixels. It depends on the situation where you're using it in.
Airwatts are a direct relation to the suction of a vacuum, they relate to actual airflow.
This means that two vacuum cleaners of the same airwattage have the same suction.It is calculated using the rate of air flow and the suction capacity.
Sure, more watts gives more suction power like how more megapixels gives more resolution.
More watts does not give more suction power.
More airwatts does.You could have a very inefficient vacuum draw 2000 watts and only make 1 airwatt.
This is why airwatt is a good measurement as it allows for a direct comparison.Dyson claims it'll last a lot longer than old batteries.
It is a claim / promise / might
The important part is they are assuming you dont use it like a normal battery device where it goes flat and you charge it.
If you want to get more specific, the Cyclone V10’s battery is good for 800 charge cycles
So the battery is no better or worse than any other device really.
But based on how most people will use the vacuum, it should last a lot longer.
The assumption is that people will not let it get flat and then recharge it.
The secret to Dyson’s long-lasting battery is actually one of the new vacuum cleaner’s coolest features: the trigger.
So, you might vacuum for a few seconds in one spot and then let go of the trigger while you reposition. This gives the battery small moments of respite, even while it’s being used, so it won’t drain as quickly.
So they are assuming that people let go of the trigger every time they are not cleaning the floor.
It might last 15 years if you use it the way Dyson imagines that you will but in the real world where people do not use things in laboratory conditions it will not.
This means that two vacuum cleaners of the same airwattage have the same suction.
Yes, just like how two cameras with the same megapixels have the same resolution.
More watts does not give more suction power.
Yes, I said air watts before, so that sentence was referring to air watts.
This is why airwatt is a good measurement as it allows for a direct comparison.
Yes, I never said it wasn't. What I'm saying is that air watts is like megapixels in the sense that more megapixels isn't necessary for all situations.
You don't need a 42MP camera to take happy snaps at a party. You can set the resolution to 10MP and it'll do the job perfectly fine.
Likewise you might not need 150 air watts to vacuum a hard floor. You can set it to 28 air watts (which is what my DC59 does in standard mode) and dust will still fly up the tube. As a result of using a lower power setting, your runtime is a lot longer.
The assumption is that people will not let it get flat and then recharge it.
Are you assuming you know how everybody uses their vacuum?
I can't remember the last time I ran my DC59 flat. It lasts long enough to do my whole unit.So they are assuming that people let go of the trigger every time they are not cleaning the floor.
Huh, why wouldn't they? The noise is pretty annoying.
@eug:
What I'm saying is that air watts is like megapixels in the sense that more megapixels isn't necessary for all situations.
It is when Dyson are saying things like
Say 'Goodbye' to big corded vacuums.
and
With full-size suction power
But when the maximum suction on a hand-held is 60% less than a corded vacuum it is hardly the same.
You can set it to 28 air watts (which is what my DC59 does in standard mode) and dust will still fly up the tube.
You also need to remember that there is a spinning brush to dislodge the dust, the suction then finishes what the brush started.
Are you assuming you know how everybody uses their vacuum?
No. I didnt say it was my assumption.
The article you linked to said
“That’s when it’s fully discharged, which rarely happens,” Dyson said.
So as I said the assumption is that people will not let it get flat and then recharge it.
That is Dyson's assumption, not mine.But when the maximum suction on a hand-held is 60% less than a corded vacuum it is hardly the same.
You're still missing my point. For years where there hasn't been anything exciting about vacuums, companies are forced to market 'suction power'. So now everyone thinks vacuums are only good if they have high suction power.
But not all situations need high suction power. If you have thick carpeting and vacuum once a month or live in a dusty area, then high suction might be useful. But if you have hard floors and vacuum every week, you probably don't need so much suction power.
That means you can run the V10 at a lower power setting and get enough runtime to do your whole place. In that case, it can certainly replace a corded vacuum - my DC59 has replaced my corded vacuum.
You also need to remember that there is a spinning brush to dislodge the dust, the suction then finishes what the brush started.
Your point being?
So as I said the assumption is that people will not let it get flat and then recharge it.
That is Dyson's assumption, not mine.Sorry, I forgot to quote what you said after that.
You said:
It might last 15 years if you use it the way Dyson imagines that you will but in the real world where people do not use things in laboratory conditions it will not.
So Dyson says the battery will last longer because people only run the vacuum while they are… vacuuming. That way the battery won't run down to 0% every time.
You then said that only happens in Dyson's imagination, and that in the real world, that does not happen.
So you're assuming everybody leaves their cordless vacuum running all the time during vacuuming sessions, even when they're just walking about. You're assuming you know how everybody uses their vacuum.
I certainly use my vacuum the way Dyson describes. When I'm vacuuming, I press the trigger. When I'm moving to another spot, I release the trigger. Does anyone else here keep their finger locked on the trigger the whole time?
@eug:
companies are forced to market 'suction power'.
Actually companies market watts - the total power draw.
People assume more power draw is better.
It has nothing to do with suction power.So now everyone thinks vacuums are only good if they have high suction power.
But not all situations need high suction power. If you have thick carpeting and vacuum once a month or live in a dusty area, then high suction might be useful. But if you have hard floors and vacuum every week, you probably don't need so much suction power.I think you are the one missing the point.
Dyson are the ones claiming they have "full-size suction power"
But they do not, and this is easy to prove with an objective measurement.That means you can run the V10 at a lower power setting and get enough runtime to do your whole place.
You are amusing that it cleans as well as a full size unit.
Your point being?
The point is that the lower suction is somewhat made up for by the spinning brush.
It is much easier to remove dirt by friction than by suction.A spinning brush might be worth an equivalent of say 50 airwatts of suction. (that number is made up)
So Dyson says the battery will last longer because people only run the vacuum while they are… vacuuming. That way the battery won't run down to 0% every time.
No dyson are saying that the battery will last longer because people only run the vacuum while they are… vacuuming and that the battery will have a longer life because the battery being fully discharged rarely happens.
The second part is important because batteries have a useful number of charge cycles. The V10 is 800.
The implication with Dyson's comment is that people will not let their battery go flat. But will this happen in the real world? Who knows.
I assume that he says this because the vacuum has a cradle which charges the battery when you are not using it. But this assumes that people place the cradle near a power point and have the cradle connected to the power all the time or that they plug the unit into the charger after every use.
People assume more power draw is better.
And that is exactly why companies market watts… which is suction power to everyone.
Dyson are the ones claiming they have "full-size suction power"
They claim to have "full size suction power*"
* Suction tested to IEC 62885-2 CL5.8 and CL5.9 at the flexible inlet, against full-size market, loaded to bin full, tested in MAX mode.Was that disproven?
The point is that the lower suction is somewhat made up for by the spinning brush.
It is much easier to remove dirt by friction than by suction.
A spinning brush might be worth an equivalent of say 50 airwatts of suction. (that number is made up)Right, so following your explanation, all these cordless Dysons, since they have a motorised brush bar, are functionally more effective than their air watt rating indicates. So that means in reality the gap in performance between a mains vac and a cordless Dyson is even smaller than expected.
The implication with Dyson's comment is that people will not let their battery go flat. But will this happen in the real world?
Well … that's certainly the way I vacuum, long before Dyson ever talked about it. It just seems to make sense - it's a momentary switch, and it's a loud vacuum. To me, it just feels natural to release the trigger when I'm simply moving around and not vacuuming.
Does anyone here keep their finger locked on the trigger, running their cordless vac while not actually vacuuming?
But this assumes that people place the cradle near a power point and have the cradle connected to the power all the time or that they plug the unit into the charger after every use.
Hmm, I thought that would be quite normal. It's just like charging your tablet/phone/laptop when the battery runs low. You leave it plugged in till you use it next.
@eug: leave it plug until next use… that's what they want you to do so they can sell you the battery or even hope you buy another vacuum cleaner from them earlier. I told you to talk to your high school teachers before commenting here! Your only listen what you like to hear and stubbornness is not good for you.
@eug:
Well … that's certainly the way I vacuum, long before Dyson ever talked about it. It just seems to make sense - it's a momentary switch, and >it's a loud vacuum. To me, it just feels natural to release the trigger when I'm simply moving around and not vacuuming.
You're missing the point Dyson says people wont let it go flat, its got nothing to do with holding the trigger down for the hell of it (as they suggest), In the real world its because its a hopelessly short battery life, it will go flat if you try to do the whole house (yes granted your not supposed to do the whole house at once with them, but we often do try to do as much as we can in the limited time, instead of doing 1 room a day)
Having said that i still love it despite the short battery life and the dirt collection chamber on the V6 being designed by an first year intern (pathetically small and difficult to empty).
My previous machine was a corded electrolux that still cost a few hundred, The v6 got out more from the carpet in one room than the lux did in the same room the day before (babies bedroom, so it wasn't even a high traffic area). The main diff between them was a power brush head on the v6 vs just suction on the lux so you can compare just suction power.
leave it plug until next use… that's what they want you to do so they can sell you the battery or even hope you buy another vacuum cleaner from them earlier.
I don't think you know how battery charge controllers work. Leaving it plugged in won't kill the battery more quickly.
I told you to talk to your high school teachers before commenting here! Your only listen what you like to hear and stubbornness is not good for you.
Now now, no need to get childish here.
I purchased 2x additional batteries from ebay which is enough to do the entire house on full power (V6). Of course Dyson don't want you to do this as they removed the battery quick release feature and replaced it with 2 screws. I removed the screws and just use a rubber band to keep the battery in place.
In the real world its because its a hopelessly short battery life, it will go flat if you try to do the whole house (yes granted your not supposed to do the whole house at once with them,
You're missing my point. And don't forget, we're talking about the V10, so your experience with the V6 is irrelevant as the battery life on the V10 is much longer.
As I said above, you don't need full power for the whole house. You have to undo the marketing that has been hammered into you over the years - you do not need high suction for all situations. You just need enough suction to suck up dust from the surface you're vacuuming. If it's hard floors, you really don't need a ton of suction.
So since you don't have to run the V10 at full power 100% of the time, the runtime is much longer than the 9 minute figure quoted previously.
People are fixating on the 9 min runtime at max power. That's like people gasping at the low 12MP resolution on iPhones and Galaxies and saying they're crap because more megapixels is obviously better, right?
@eug:
They claim to have "full size suction power*"
I know, you wuoted me quoting it…
- Suction tested to IEC 62885-2 CL5.8 and CL5.9 at the flexible inlet, against full-size market, loaded to bin full, tested in MAX mode.
That is the testing standard. It does not specify what "full size vacuum" they use.
Was that disproven?
Well, the standard is not designed for cordless units
IEC 62885-2:2016 is applicable for measurements of the performance of dry vacuum cleaners for household use in or under conditions similar to those in households. The purpose of this standard is to specify essential performance characteristics of dry vacuum cleaners which are of interest to users and to describe methods for measuring these characteristics. This standard is not intended for cordless vacuum cleaners.
And even Without testing against a standard I am sure there are low end full size units that have low suctios, around 100 airwatts. That is all Dyson needs to make their claim. Decent full size units like the Miele C3 have 250 airwatts which is nearly double the V10…
Plus as their website says
All performance claims are based on machines available in the Japanese>market in July 2014. Claims are only applicable where the product is available to buy from Dyson or our authorised retailers.
So they are testing against very old machines.
Right, so following your explanation, all these cordless Dysons, since they have a motorised brush bar are functionally more effective than their air watt rating indicates.
No that is not what I said. I said that the spinning brush can help a low suction unit be more effective compared to the same unit without a spinning brush.
They still only have 150 airwatts of suction.
So that means in reality the gap in performance between a mains vac and a cordless Dyson is even smaller than expected.
Except that a good mains vac has 250 airwatts and a V10 has 150 so no the performance gap is not smaller than expected. Plus all good corded Dysons, Miele, Shark etc. have spinning brush heads and greater suction than any handheld so the performance gap is the airwatts.
You say that like Dyson are the only manufacturer with a spinning brush head (which was on vacuums long before Dyson existed)
Well … that's certainly the way I vacuum, long before Dyson ever talked about it. It just seems to make sense - it's a momentary switch, and it's a loud vacuum. To me, it just feels natural to release the trigger when I'm simply moving around and not vacuuming.
You have missed the point.
I was not talking about the trigger switch at all (neither was Dyson in the part I referenced). I was talking about battery cycles which is why I said "The implication with Dyson's comment is that people will not let their battery go flat."
Hmm, I thought that would be quite normal. It's just like charging your tablet/phone/laptop when the battery runs low.
And there we go. If you do that, as most people will do, then that is going against what Dyson is saying helps the battery last.
Dyson are assuming that you will not let the battery go flat and they are using that to make their claim that the battery will last 15 years.Dyson's assumption is that you will use it for sat 10 minutes, put it on the charge where it will charge to 100% for the next use.
What most people will probably do (as you said) is use it for 10 minutes, put it away, use it again for 10 minutes where it goes flat and then charge it.@eug:
If it's hard floors, you really don't need a ton of suction.
You would be surprised. Things stick to hard floors quite well.
If you mop hard floors after vacuuming them you will still end up with dirty water. This is why Dyson includes the soft roller because friction works better and helps make up for the lower suction.
That's like people gasping at the low 12MP resolution on iPhones and Galaxies and saying they're crap because more megapixels is obviously better, right?
But they are crap compared to a full size DSLR.
For some reason you are trying very hard not to understand what I'm saying. There's no point in replying to your post because you keep avoiding my point and try to argue around it.
Here's a summary.
- You don't need to run the V10 at full power all the time. Like what this person who actually owns one reports.
- Not having to run at full power means the runtime is much longer than the 9 minutes people are fixating on.
- That also means the battery won't be run down to 0% all the time, which will extend its lifespan compared to a unit with a smaller battery that does run down to 0% all the time.
That's it. I really have no idea why you are trying so hard to just argue in circles.
This is why Dyson includes the soft roller because friction works better and helps make up for the lower suction.
Great, so at the end of the day, it still gets the job done.
But they are crap compared to a full size DSLR.
I was talking specifically about resolution only, like how people are fixating on air watts only. You don't need 42 megapixels to take photos of your breakfast, just like how you don't need 300 air watts to suck dust off a tiled floor.
@eug:
There's no point in replying to your post because you keep avoiding my point and try to argue around it.
I haven't avoided things you have said.
I have tried to break them up so that I can address each point.You don't need to run the V10 at full power all the time. Like what this person who actually owns one reports.
I haven't said you do.
Not having to run at full power means the runtime is much longer than the 9 minutes people are fixating on.
I haven't said this is not true. Assuming that a person is satisfied with the lower suction and power setting.
That also means the battery won't be run down to 0% all the time, which will extend its lifespan compared to a unit with a smaller battery that does run down to 0% all the time.
I think you are confusing the trigger with battery degradation due to use/charge cycles. I tried to address this above but maybe you didnt understand.
The battery will run down to 0% like any other battery when it is used.
As you said "It's just like charging your tablet/phone/laptop when the battery runs low."
So people let the battery go flat and then charge it. Doing that is what causes the most wear on a battery, along with heat.
If you can keep a battery between about 20-80% charged it will last longer than one that is used on the full 0-100%.The battery in the Dyson is actually pretty small.
It is 2,600mAh, a Samsung Galaxy S9 is 3,000mAh or an iPhone X is 2,716 mAh.The battery will run down to 0% like any other battery when it is used.
No, you're missing my point.
Because there is a trigger, the likelihood of the battery running down to 0% is lower, because people aren't leaving it running all the time when they're just moving about.
So people let the battery go flat and then charge it. Doing that is what causes the most wear on a battery, along with heat.
As I said above, the momentary trigger means the battery is less likely to go flat compared to e.g. my old Electrolux which had a latching power switch.
If you can keep a battery between about 20-80% charged it will last longer than one that is used on the full 0-100%.
…and that is exactly why running it with a maybe 60% duty cycle means the battery will not drop down to 0%.
The battery in the Dyson is actually pretty small.
It is 2,600mAh, a Samsung Galaxy S9 is 3,000mAh or an iPhone X is 2,716 mAh.You cannot compare batteries simply with the amp-hour rating. You have to take voltage into account, so the easiest way is to look at the watt-hour rating.
A Galaxy S9 has a 3000mAh cell at 3.85 volts which is 11.55Wh. A Dyson V10 has a 2600mAh pack at 25.2V in a 6S configuration which is 65.52Wh - that's 5.6 times more energy.
That's not the only difference. Mobile phones (along with laptops, digital cameras, tablets) typically use cells with lithium cobalt oxide cathodes while the Dyson V10 uses a nickel cobalt aluminium cathode.
The LCO cells are cheaper, have lower specific energy and a shorter lifespan than the Dyson's NCA cells. The NCA cells can handle much higher discharge currents.
Not surprisingly, Tesla also uses NCA cells in their cars. They offer an 8-year battery warranty, which would attest to the longevity of NCA cells in comparison to LCO.
@eug: I am not talking about overcharging the battery if that is all you can think about but always plugged in means the battery is always 100% charged that reduces the charge lifecycles. Go study more before commenting here. Don't always think what you know are all the facts.
but always plugged in means the battery is always 100% charged that reduces the charge lifecycles. Go study more before commenting here.
OK, so you're saying that when the battery is always at 100% (i.e. it isn't undergoing any charge/discharge cycles), the charge cycle count will increment anyway?
BTW if you're referring to capacity fade from storage at high SoCs, as I mentioned in my previous comment, Dyson batteries use NCA cathodes which are less susceptible than the LCO cells you're probably familiar with.
@eug:
Because there is a trigger, the likelihood of the battery running down to 0% is lower, because people aren't leaving it running all the time when they're just moving about.
No the likelihood of the battery going to 0% is the same. The battery will last for a set number of minutes of use at a given power draw regardless of the trigger.
The trigger might make the time between battery charges longer however the battery will still go to 0% as people use it and then need charging. Just like any other battery.As I said above, the momentary trigger means the battery is less likely to go flat compared
Again, that is extending time between charges. Not the use/charge pattern that is common on a battery (use it, let it go flat and then charge it).
The battery will last for a set number of minutes of use at a given power draw regardless of the trigger.
Not really; the battery recovery effect means that you'll get more effective capacity with an intermittent load rather than a continuous one.
The trigger might make the time between battery charges longer however the battery will still go to 0% as people use it and then need charging
You're assuming people take the vac off the charger, use it here and there until the battery reaches 0%, then put it back on the charger. It looks like your entire argument is based on that assumption.
Before you go to bed, if your phone has 30% battery remaining, what do you do - recharge it, or let it drain to 0% overnight and the next day before you recharge it? I would think most people would recharge it.
If someone's habit is to take the vac off the charger and use it to 0%, then a little self-training will eliminate that issue.
Don't run at full power all the time, just use enough power to do the job. Unless the house is large or the flooring simply requires high suction, the battery will likely still have a reasonable amount of charge.
Put it back on the charging dock after each use
That's it really.
Once again, remember that we're talking about the V10. All your experiences with older models does not count as the battery life would have been shorter.
@eug: frankly speaking I vacuum my entire 4x2 house once a week and yes it took me 1hour and 30mins with a full size corded Dyson. So I will do 60mins until the battery is flat and another 30 mins once the battery is recharged and ready for second round. Unless I deliberately stop at 45 mins and charge the battery then another 45mins otherwise 60 mins and 30 minutes make more sense to me.
Speaking of battery life, so Dyson gives 10 years or 15 years warranty on the V10 battery?it took me 1hour and 30mins with a full size corded Dyson.
Is that 1 hour and 30 mins of actual vacuuming, or does that include moving furniture around, picking up items, unplugging/replugging the vacuum, etc?
Speaking of battery life, so Dyson gives 10 years or 15 years warranty on the V10 battery?
No idea, you'll have to ask them.
@eug: of course all floor area is "prepared"for vacuum before I start. I don't waste time moving stuff here to there in the middle of vacuum. The cord is long enough that I only need to plug and unplug it twice to vacuum the entire house which takes 1 min? So you are confident with their claimed battery life but not sure if it is backed by their warranty to meet your expectation?
@eug:
Not really; the battery recovery(jes.ecsdl.org) effect(mobed.yonsei.ac.kr) means that you'll get more effective capacity with an intermittent load rather than a continuous one.
The power draw of a Dyson is very different to a small wireless device.
And from the article
from a battery perspective, multiple short pulses with intermediate relaxation are preferred over a single long pulse
Short low current pulses of less than a second are not useful when using a vacuum which works using a single long pulse.
Dyson has BattMan technology?
You're assuming people take the vac off the charger, use it here and there until the battery reaches 0%, then put it back on the charger. It looks like your entire argument is based on that assumption.
And Dyson's argument is based on the assumption that people will always charge the device after every use.
Even as you said "It's just like charging your tablet/phone/laptop when the battery runs low" which is what Dyson is asusming you will not do.
And I'm not assuming they use it to 0%, but a low percent where the suction drops off or charge light comes on. By the time this happens you are in the area of battery drain that causes extra wear (below about 20%)
If someone's habit is to take the vac off the charger and use it to 0%, then a little self-training will eliminate that issue.
So the Dyson is only good when people change their habits?
And the claims are based on people needing to do something they might not normally do?Don't run at full power all the time, just use enough power to do the job. Unless the house is large or the flooring simply requires high suction, the battery will likely still have a reasonable amount of charge.
So the battery lifespan is only there if you do not use the device to it's full potential. If that is the case why spend $700? Just buy a vacuum with spinning brushhead that has around 50 airwatts (which would be any cheap corded vaccum, if corded ones even have suction that low)
Or to get the best from the device you are only limited to 9 minute intervals.
Put it back on the charging dock after each use
Assuming that charging dock can be installed close to a power point, the power point is turned on all the time and you dont mind cables hanging around.
Speaking of battery life, so Dyson gives 10 years or 15 years warranty on the V10 battery?
It seems like there is none.
What isn't covered by a Dyson guarantee?
Normal wear and tear, including parts that might wear out over time (e.g. fuse, belt, brush bar, batteries, filters etc.).
https://www.dyson.com.au/supportv4/guaranteeterms.aspxof course all floor area is "prepared"for vacuum before I start.
1.5 hours to vacuum a house that has already been cleared? I feel like you either have a very large house, or take your own sweet time vacuuming.
So you are confident with their claimed battery life
Do point out where I said their battery will last 10-15 years.
but not sure if it is backed by their warranty to meet your expectation?
What expectation? I will never buy this vacuum, unless perhaps I get a much larger place. My DC59 battery lasts long enough to clean my place now.
Look, not all products are made just for you. This vacuum probably won't suit people who take 1.5 hours to vacuum their house, just like how a cordless drill won't replace a mains powered drill for everybody.
The thing to keep in mind is, for a lot of people, a cordless drill, or vacuum, can absolutely replace a mains powered version. But it might not work for you. Which is fine, because you're not everyone. Different people have different usage scenarios, so just because something doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's useless to everyone else. It is OK for a company to make a product aimed at people other than you.
@eug: of course it doesn't aim people like me who doesn't take their word for it. They aim people like you hear all the bs talk but when asked if they stand behind their products by giving us confidence with extra years of warranty it is just not there. I don't care what they claim about how many years charge life cycle with their V10 batteries when compared the warranty side by side with V6 if not guaranteed extra warranty on the V10 I will just take both batteries last just as long or as short. Otherwise can you explain why wouldn't they give extra 10 -15 years warranty on batteries?
A lot of people? How many exactly and based on % population in the world or some countries? Do you have any research and survey done and based on what average house sizes to determine if cordless vacuum cleaner is sufficient to replace corded? You have any solid evidence to support your comment or just like Dyson talk bs?The power draw of a Dyson is very different to a small wireless device.
Dyson has BattMan technology?I would have linked you to the paper that the author referenced - which was research done with electric vehicles, but it's behind a paywall. The effect is seen in applications ranging from a small wireless device to an electric vehicle.
I'm really not sure why you're trying to argue against a well-established effect that has been known for a very long time. Battery analytical models like KiBaM take it into account.
And I'm not assuming they use it to 0%, but a low percent where the suction drops off or charge light comes on. By the time this happens you are in the area of battery drain that causes extra wear (below about 20%)
Are you basing your assumption on an older model Dyson?
So the Dyson is only good when people change their habits?
And the claims are based on people needing to do something they might not normally do?Perhaps, just like how mobile phones were only good once people changed their habits from charging their Nokia once every 4 days to once or twice a day. Convenience doesn't always come for free.
The Dyson is only good when it's used the way it's meant to be used. You seem to be under the assumption that most people will squeeze the trigger and hold on to it even when they're not actually vacuuming. I think more people know how to release the trigger when they're not vacuuming than you believe.
So the battery lifespan is only there if you do not use the device to it's full potential.
The "full potential" would be "cleaning your home", not "running at 100% power for 60 minutes".
Or to get the best from the device you are only limited to 9 minute intervals.
Somehow you still don't get the point. You do not need to run a device at full power to "get its full potential".
I really don't know why you're so anti-Dyson. I will probably never buy this vacuum because my old DC59 lasts long enough and does a great job, but I can see how and why this V10 can suit many other people.
As I mentioned in another reply, not every product has to be designed for you. There are plenty of people out there who don't find it mind-bogglingly difficult to release a trigger when they're not vacuuming, and can easily wrap their head around the fact that a vacuum doesn't have to run at 100% power all the time. The Dyson V10 would be for those people.
Clearly the V10 is not for you. You have to understand that products aren't always made with you in mind. There are plenty of other people out there in the world with different usage scenarios to you. If it doesn't suit you, just don't buy it. I'm pretty sure Dyson will be happier that you didn't.
Otherwise can you explain why wouldn't they give extra 10 -15 years warranty on batteries?
Because batteries can be abused. If someone like spaceflight uses them (running at full power all the time, discharging to 0%), they will certainly fail prematurely.
@eug: but you said a lot of people can absolutely use cordless to replace main power vacuum that means people will use it for less than 60 mins on normal suction power and charge it before it goes flat. Why would Dyson not backing its batteries with extra warranty when only a few of the isolated customers would abuse it? If this "abuse" excuse has its ground shouldn't all products sold in this world without any warranty at all?
So you keep on making all these comments without knowing its warranty, no research done and based solely on your inexperienced opinion?Why would Dyson not backing its batteries with extra warranty when only a few of the isolated customers would abuse it?
Because they are minimizing their risk.
So you keep on making all these comments without knowing its warranty, no research done and based solely on your inexperienced opinion?
That's a nice attempt at trying to rile me up, but I would prefer to stick to the topic at hand rather than to devolve to thinly veiled personal insults.
@eug: because they don't back their claims just like you have nothing to back your comments. You might be good at writing stories in high school but when it comes to verifying if a statement made by a company is true you need to back it with evidence. Why would people waste their time to discuss this topic with you when you have not done any homework on it yet?
BTW do you know anything about risk and return? If you don't you better don't make any judgement on behalf of Dyson.@eug:
I would have linked you to the paper(ieeexplore.ieee.org) that the author referenced - which was research done with electric vehicles, but it's behind a paywall. The effect is seen in applications ranging from a small wireless device to an electric vehicle.
Here's the conclusion form the paper as I have a subscription.
For low temperatures, the
recovery effect is highly developed.Low temperatures referenced in the study are -20C (where lithium already has poor performance so it is more helping in extreme conditions)
Utilization of the effect was investigated by a comparison
of constant and pulsed discharge cycles. Unfortunately, a
merely negligible increase of the drawn energy could be
obtained. This result could be explained by the already high
efficiency of lithium ion batteries compared to other
chemistries. Thus there is only little place for improvement.So in general conditions there is no improvement.
But if there was an improvement it would need to be implemented automatically (not with a finger) because the pulse cycles are short bursts of time. Such a design would then probably need a larger battery to rotate the cells in use as they are pulsed to create a linear power output to the motor.
Are you basing your assumption on an older model Dyson?
Lithium battery technology in general
You seem to be under the assumption that most people will squeeze the trigger and hold on to it even when they're not actually vacuuming. I think more people know how to release the trigger when they're not vacuuming than you believe.
No, I am saying that Dyson are making longevity claims based on how they assume people to use it.
As you can see with the pulse times in the studies this is likely to be unrealistic time periods for what would be seen when vaccuming.
Somehow you still don't get the point. You do not need to run a device at full power to "get its full potential".
"Full potential" would be defined as the maximum that can be done so a low power mode is not full potential.
I really don't know why you're so anti-Dyson.
I'm not, I own a Dyson.
But if you look through all of their marketing, footnotes and claims and then make comparisons to other items you can easily see that they are over priced and have lower measurable performance indicators compared to other, cheaper items.
@eug:
Do point out where I said their battery will last 10-15 years.
In the article you linked to
https://www.techradar.com/news/james-dyson-promises-15-year-…@eug:
Because batteries can be abused. If someone like spaceflight uses them (running at full power all the time, discharging to 0%), they will certainly fail prematurely.
Using it as 100% power until flat is not abuse, that is using it within the design limits of the appliance.
So in general conditions there is no improvement.
Thanks for the summary; OK, so we have three papers - one looking at very low current draws where the effect is more pronounced, to an electric vehicle where the effect is negligible, to another paper about mobile devices where the effect is recognized, I would deduce that the effect would be seen in a cordless vacuum, however the actual effective gain is not substantial enough to matter.
Now, back to the main topic.
Lithium battery technology in general
I really think you need to look at lithium battery technology in relation to how it is applied in the V10.
"Full potential" would be defined as the maximum that can be done so a low power mode is not full potential.
That depends on what you're looking at - technical measurements, or desired outcomes?
When it comes to a vacuum, if it gets my floor clean, it has reached its full potential. I don't expect it to do more.
Whether it uses 50 air watts or 150 air watts to get my floor clean really does not matter to me as the reason I bought it is to get a clean floor, not specifically to get 150 air watts of suction.
But if you look through all of their marketing, footnotes and claims and then make comparisons to other items you can easily see that they are over priced and have lower measurable performance indicators compared to other, cheaper items.
Is there a cordless vacuum that has more power and runtime as the V10 with the same weight and size at a much cheaper price?
I did search around before I bought my DC59 and couldn't find anything equivalent. User comments seem to agree too.
Using it as 100% power until flat is not abuse, that is using it within the design limits of the appliance.
If I kept running my car engine at a constant ~6,000rpm every day, it would be considered abusing the engine. While the engine can certainly run at 6,000rpm, it would likely fail sooner than if it was run at normal revs.
In the article you linked to
https://www.techradar.com/news/james-dyson-promises-15-year-…The question was, point out where I said it will last 10-15 years. I didn't, I said "Dyson claims it will last a lot longer than old batteries".
I just noticed the misleading title of that article - Dyson never promised the battery will last 15 years, he said it "might". Personally I wouldn't expect it to last 15 years. Maybe 5-8 would be more realistic, but it certainly shouldn't be the 1-2 years people seem to be thinking by comparing them to phone/laptop batteries.
@eug:
I really think you need to look at lithium battery technology in relation to how it is applied in the V10.
Lithium battery technology is what it is.
It doesnt matter what device it is in, all cells surfer from the same degradation characteristics.That depends on what you're looking at - technical measurements, or desired outcomes?
The maximum potential of the machine would be as advertised and used, so technical.
When it comes to a vacuum, if it gets my floor clean, it has reached its full potential. I don't expect it to do more.
I would say it has reached your desired outcome, not its full potential.
Is there a cordless vacuum that has more power and runtime as the V10 with the same weight and size at a much cheaper price?
Have a look at the Shark IonFlex.
It has the same power as the V10 and double the run time (because they include 2x batteries which you can replace without tools)Lithium battery technology is what it is.
It doesnt matter what device it is in, all cells surfer from the same degradation characteristics.It matters as the amount of degradation depends on how the cell is implemented. As I've said before, if you don't run it at full bore all the time, the battery will not be fully discharged every time you use it. You do not need to run it at full all the time because you do not need maximum suction all the time.
The maximum potential of the machine would be as advertised and used, so technical.
So would you say you will not reach the full potential of a car unless you run the engine just under redline every time you drive it?
Have a look at the Shark IonFlex.
I linked to that in another reply below.
- It's $749 - not much cheaper than this deal
- Since we've been talking about air watts, it is 23% weaker (115 vs 150AW).
- Runtime is 11 minutes on high, 23 minutes on low, per battery
- The dust collection bin is smaller on the Shark
So IMHO it's not really a compelling alternative at the current price points.
It also probably should be said that Dyson is targeting customers who are not price-sensitive. Some people would happily pay more for a little bit more performance and battery life.
@eug:
If I kept running my car engine at a constant ~6,000rpm every day, it would be considered abusing the engine. While the engine can certainly run at 6,000rpm, it would likely fail sooner than if it was run at normal revs.
But an engine is not designed to be held at 6000 RPM because that is not how cars work or how people drive. Engines are designed to operate within rpm bands and built accordingly. Plus it would not be possible to actually drive your car all the time at 6000 rpm.
If you want "full-size suction power" you need to use maximum mode and the vacuum would be designed for this.
If it is not then Dyson would need to include a warning telling you not to use maximum mode for more than 5 minutes (or whatever the number would be). Using it for more than that would then be abuse.Dyson never promised the battery will last 15 years, he said it "might"
He did. Saying "Fifteen years of daily use might get you down to 80% battery" means that after 15 years 80% would be the worst condition you should be in so your battery should be better than that after 15 years.
@eug:
So would you say you will not reach the full potential of a car unless you run the engine just under redline every time you drive it?
Redline, no because that is the maximum tolerable speed of the engine.
An engines full potential in a car is not reached at reline anyway, that's why we have gearboxes.Full potential of a car could be top speed, towing capacity, occupants etc.
It's $749 - not much cheaper than this deal
That is with a $60 gift card from Harvey Norman
Since we've been talking about air watts, it is 23% weaker (115 vs 150AW).
When I was looking into them a while ago the 2 reviews I found were around 150, I cant remember the number now or quickly find the results.
If i found the same review you did that says 115 then they were basing that on what the V8 does and not what the Shark actually does.
But if you are not using maximum on the Dyson the difference should not be noticeable.
Runtime is 11 minutes on high, 23 minutes on low, per battery
Which is 20% longer than the Dyson in maximum mode and you get 2 batteries so you can run for 2.5 times longer than the Dyson.
It also probably should be said that Dyson is targeting customers who are not price-sensitive.
I agree there.
But they do also target vulnerable people - those who are easily swayed by their claims and are not able to compare to other models.I think the Shark also has a 5 ear warranty, much longer than Dysons 2
But an engine is not designed to be held at 6000 RPM because that is not how cars work or how people drive.
Likewise, I can say holding on to the vacuum trigger constantly is not how people vacuum.
Do people actually hold on to the trigger on their cordless Dyson continuously even when they're not actually vacuuming?
Plus it would not be possible to actually drive your car all the time at 6000 rpm.
I thought it was obvious that it was just an example of abuse.
You insist on running a vacuum how you want to at full power, and not how it was designed to be run. As I mentioned earlier, convenience comes at a cost. If you can't get yourself to use a lower power setting and release your finger on the trigger when not vacuuming, then definitely do not get this vacuum. If you don't like the idea of replacing the battery in a few years, definitely don't get this too. A Miele would definitely work better and cost less, you'll just have to deal with a power cord.
But for people who value the convenience of a powerful cordless vac and don't mind the price, definitely consider this. There doesn't seem to be a more powerful, longer-lasting alternative at a lower price.
If it is not then Dyson would need to include a warning telling you not to use maximum mode for more than 5 minutes (or whatever the number would be).
I think people who buy a V10 and find it only runs for 9 minutes in max power would quickly learn that they can run it at a lower power setting and get longer runtimes, and still get their floor clean.
He did.
I see what you mean now - it can be read more than one way. I read it as 15 years of use might get you down to 80%… or it might not, i.e. it might be 20%.
However I still don't see how what he said constitutes a firm promise, thanks to his use of the word "might" rather than "will".
This is now just an argument over semantics rather than the Dyson V10.
Full potential of a car could be top speed, towing capacity, occupants etc.
Right. So "full potential" can be more than one metric.
Likewise, air watts is not the only metric possible to describe a vacuum cleaner's "full potential".
The only reason a vacuum cleaner exists is to get your floor clean. Once it's clean, it has done its job. It has reached its full potential - your floor can't get cleaner than clean. It doesn't matter how many air watts was needed to suck dust off the floor - 50, 150 - it's irrelevant as the final result has been achieved.
You're looking at a vacuum cleaner literally as a pump only, fixating on power. You're missing the bigger picture. To you, a vacuum cleaner's full potential is being able to run at its max AW output constantly. To me, if my floor is clean, it has done its job.
That is with a $60 gift card from Harvey Norman
Even taking into account a $60 gift card that can only be used in one store, the disadvantages might not outweigh the price difference. It depends on the person buying it.
But if you are not using maximum on the Dyson the difference should not be noticeable.
You'll still be getting poorer performance.
Which is 20% longer than the Dyson in maximum mode
It also has 23% weaker suction. Also, those runtimes are given by Shark. I'm not sure what the real life runtime is. The V10's 9 minute figure is a real life figure.
I think if the Dyson is set to a lower power mode that's closer to the Shark, the runtime would be slightly longer than the Shark as the Dyson battery has slightly higher capacity.
and you get 2 batteries so you can run for 2.5 times longer than the Dyson.
I would say 2x longer, which certainly is a benefit. The V11 will probably have a removable battery. That said, if I can do my whole place on one battery, that benefit is moot.
The battery position on the Dyson gives it better ergonomics as well. It will feel less fatiguing than the Shark.
I think the Shark also has a 5 ear warranty, much longer than Dysons 2
The Shark has a 2 year warranty on the battery, and 3 years on the unit itself.
I think you'll find that the V10 on Medium is close to the same suction power as the V8 on Max so its not that black and white with regards to battery life.
Either way, I was really close to buying this vac but after testing a friends out I could not justify the cost vs performance.
I ended up with a Shark from Costco for 1/3 of the price and could not be happier.
We have a V6 Absolute. Corded Dyson was faring pretty poorly so we grabbed a Miele C3. Can’t believe we wasted money on Dyson shit. Wouldn’t touch Dyson again. Heard good things about Shark too, they’re quite popular in the U.S.
Lowest power setting more than suffices for regular use. Don't be concerned about the battery capacity for a regular sized family home.
Best. vacuum. ever.Have the fixed the emptying mechanism on these cordless vacs? Got a V6 Absolute, emptying it is a pain in the ass – I always had to put my finger in and scrape the dust (held together by long strands of hair) out of the canister.
We have the V8 which is supposedly 6 minutes on max? It's more than enough to do whats intended..
Having said that.. we also have a Dyson Animal upright.. No cordless Vac will ever replace a proper plug in Vac.. I don't care what your marketing division spouts
Yep, at least for the next few years or more anyway. Kinda reminds me of power tools; some do ok on batteries, some you'll just never really be able to make cordless because of the length or raw power of the job required.
That said, vacuum and power technology are somewhat separate too. Can you use Dyson vacs while they are plugged in? If so then best of both worlds, can run it on the extension cord for the big housewide cleans.
No, the charger for the batteries is significantly lower wattage than what the batteries can output.
They take hours to charge for minutes of use.
I tried doing this on an old 18v cordless vacuum, turned out I needed a 90w power pack to get the motor to spin. At that point it's like having another cordless vacuum just for a power cord.
It would be decent if you could use while charging. But you can’t. I’m suprised they haven’t brought out some kind of transformer that occupies the battery pack space which allows it to be plugged into a wall and used. I suppose they probably wanted people to buy a cordless and corded vac though.
@no not me: I thought the whole point was so you practically couldn't buy corded anymore (at least Dyson).
What are the odds on the next Dyson being designed with interchangeable battery packs much like a tool? (Much more moolah to be made over the design of allowing it to be used while corded…)
I tried doing this on an old 18v cordless vacuum, turned out I needed a 90w power pack to get the motor to spin.
The V10's battery can put out 525W so you'll need an even beefier PSU. :)
I use one and I get 55min normal mode and turbo mode or max I get 20 min I also paid $780 in a sale
I have the V6 Absolute and I rarely use it on max mode. Never really had issues with battery life and it's only meant to last 20 minutes too. Keep in mind I don't have pets though.
And yet Dyson wants to go all cordless.
Bad move mate. They are so stupid.
Until battery tech improves no way cordless can replace corded
Had one of these for a couple of weeks and haven’t found myself needing max mode yet. It does our 4 bedroom house + small office on a single charge on medium power.
At this price it’s a steal I was in a hn showed them the price he said he’s was $930 I said that nowere near $780 so brought on line he would pricematch
?
Evidence of 'fools and their money'.
So hn price matched this price?
No hn saw bing lee price $799 said by it from them we can only see it at $930 no lower I said but u price match…
He said we do but that price is stupidly low so no price matchFantastic story
Really $799? Can Dyson stop inflating their prices like Apple.
They will keep doing it as long as people are buying
You have to wait for the iDyson
At 799 it’s deflated there 999 in all stores excep bing lee there 799
Evertime they release a new product… It seems to go up 200. V6 $600, V8 $800..now V10 1k. Will the V12 be 1.2k? I guess the research lab is on par with NASA's budget.
The v6 was 899 onrelease the v8 999 the v8 plus 999 and the v 10 plus all 999 on release
Costs… Chinese workers want pay, sick leaves, holidays, rights - it’s becoming ridiculous. iPhones won’t get cheaper for us until Apple and OEMs move to Cambodia or Vietnam.
Dyson should be looking to Africa as a long-term strategy - plenty of desperate, hungry and destitute with acquiescent leaders and room for toxic landfill.
So do places like Myer matches these prices in-store?
no
Some seem to be missing the point of these - performance per portablity. Sure they're expensive, but how much depends on how much cables bother you.
I have a high powered Miele - it sucks great, better than anything I've had before, excellent bag capacity, but it drives me insane with the power cable half popping out of the point when I've reached range prematurely because the cable wrapped around the tube, or continually stopping and moving powerpoints, or the thing turning over and powering off when pulling at certain angles.
But the main thing is, practically it was too much effort getting a corded vacuum out to do a spot or quick daily vacuum, so vacuums would happen only weekly, even fortnightly.
This.
I know Dyson has made claims that the V10 is as good as most corded vacuums, but in reality it probably isn't.
I personally purchased one recently from the Bing Lee sale with full knowledge of it not being the best vacuum and probably overpriced, but got it for the portability. I have a pet dog which sheds quite a bit + carpet floors, which means it is a necessity for me to vacuum regularly to keep the place tidy. Having to lug around a full size vacuum, changing power points 3-4 times throughout the house can be an annoying, time consuming task. With the V10, it's much more convenient, and also saves me time.
The Dyson V10 is probably overkill for a household without pets. But if you've got a large house,have pets and value the convenience, I think it's worth the money.
If someone can recommend me a cordless vacuum that comes close to the Dyson's cordless, then I'm all ears! We all love saving money after all.
If someone can recommend me a cordless vacuum that comes close to the Dyson's cordless, then I'm all ears! We all love saving money after all.
Shark IonFlex.
It has twice the battery life (because you get 2 batteries)
This is less than $700 with gift card. It may be cheaper elsewhere, this was the first link I grabbed.
https://www.harveynorman.com.au/shark-ionflex-2x-duoclean-co…
- 1
- 2
wow i paid 950 for this good find.